Attendances

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You can’t be that invested in your questions then.

Like I said before my questions are to him not to the trust or its membership. 

[blueboy3333]

If people can get the game on TV crowds will inevitably suffer.  If you have got access to SKY's red button you'll probably be able to see 15 games (minimum) this season without going anywhere near a football ground. (I make it 6 already this season with the next two also available on SKY). 15 games is unprecedented. I doubt we were on that many times when we won the league (I may be very wrong on that). We certainly weren't in the Hughes/Souness/Allardyce eras.   

Half of those 15 games will be at home (Sheff U, Reading, Leeds and Villa have all been available on SKY so far??) That makes about 16 games at the most that you will have to go to Ewood to watch. That makes it £25 a game @ £400 a ST. 

There will come a time when it really isn't worth going unless you can't live without going to Ewood once a fortnight. If Waggott continues to raise prices across the board living without going to Ewood will become easier and easier. 

 

[Mattyblue]

We’ll probably have around 10 of our home games available through Sky by the end of the season. Without doubt more than we ever had in the Premier League - only problem is we don’t have a PL product anymore to ensure folk keep bothering coming to Ewood

Edited October 15, 2018 by Mattyblue

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

We’ll probably have around 10 of our home games available through Sky by the end of the season. Without doubt more than we ever had in the Premier League - only problem is we don’t have a PL product anymore to ensure folk keep bothering coming to Ewood

That makes only 13 games you can't watch from the comfort of your own home/pub. That would cost £312 at £24 a ticket. 

 

[Paul]

14 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

That makes only 13 games you can't watch from the comfort of your own home/pub. That would cost £312 at £24 a ticket. 

 

Or for only £37 extra supporters can watch and actually support their team, live in the stadium for £15/game.

Bit of a no brainer for me. Where's the joy in sitting on a sofa being told what one's watching by commentators incapable of forming a full sentence or using meaningful language? It's quite beyond me why anyone who can get to Ewood sees Sky as a better alternative. Still each to their own.

Not aimed at you blueboy

Edited October 16, 2018 by Paul

[JHRover]

14 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

We’ll probably have around 10 of our home games available through Sky by the end of the season. Without doubt more than we ever had in the Premier League - only problem is we don’t have a PL product anymore to ensure folk keep bothering coming to Ewood

Plus add in the ones moved to inconvenient/unattractive times.

So far we've had Reading midweek, Villa Saturday tea time, Leeds Saturday lunchtime, Sheffield United was midweek, we know that Preston at home is going to be Saturday lunchtime and Wigan and Derby at home are going to be midweek, and Swansea at home on the final day of the season is going to be an early kick off for TV.

So even now we know that at least 8 of our 23 home games are moved, and that could easily go past ten if we get a couple of TV games chucked in which is likely.

It's not just the fact that all of those games can/will be available on Sky Sports, but also that those times are all inconvenient for a lot of people. Those who work or who live a fair distance away have their patience tested by midweek kick offs and having to rush home, rush back out, not get home until late. Saturday lunchtime folk are having to leave just after breakfast to get to Blackburn and park up for a noon kick off.

[Paul]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

. Saturday lunchtime folk are having to leave just after breakfast to get to Blackburn and park up for a noon kick off.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration though as it depends on where one lives. Personally I'll be leaving home at 11.00, any side other than Leeds it would be 11.30. I don't like these 12.00 KOs  but I'm unsure if it's that inconvenient.

The huge Leeds away support is going to cause me far more inconvenience and cost money. We have a car park pass for the DE and regularly have to wait for 20-25 minutes for the car park gates to be opened after the away coaches have departed. On Saturday it could be up to an hour's delay so we have to leave home early and hopefully find a spot on Albion Mill etc. fort £3.

[arbitro]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Plus add in the ones moved to inconvenient/unattractive times.

So far we've had Reading midweek, Villa Saturday tea time, Leeds Saturday lunchtime, Sheffield United was midweek, we know that Preston at home is going to be Saturday lunchtime and Wigan and Derby at home are going to be midweek, and Swansea at home on the final day of the season is going to be an early kick off for TV.

So even now we know that at least 8 of our 23 home games are moved, and that could easily go past ten if we get a couple of TV games chucked in which is likely.

It's not just the fact that all of those games can/will be available on Sky Sports, but also that those times are all inconvenient for a lot of people. Those who work or who live a fair distance away have their patience tested by midweek kick offs and having to rush home, rush back out, not get home until late. Saturday lunchtime folk are having to leave just after breakfast to get to Blackburn and park up for a noon kick off.

An FA Cup run would add a few games to that number.

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, meadows said:

You can hardly class midweek home games as « moved » can you JH? We’ve always had midweek home games. Sometimes they’re against local teams, sometimes not. With a 46 game season you’ve got to have some midweek games. For the sake of the fans who travel you’d prefer not to have to go to places like Swansea on a Tuesday night but over the years we’ve played most teams on midweek nights. Only two I can’t recall a midweek league game against down the decades are Burnley & PNE

Maybe not moved but still taking place at times when people might well embrace the opportunity to not bother going and stay at home and watch it on tv from the comfort of their armchair on the red button.

Too many incentives to not bother going.

Yes its a fact of life that there will be some midweek games and there always have been, but its also a fact that crowds drop noticeably for those games. Miserable weather, cold nights, kids going into school the next day, people rushing home from work or early starts, these sort of people may well come to the conclusion that it just isn't worth bothering with.

I don't mind 2, 3 or 4 home midweek games out of 23 over a season provided the remainder are kept in the sacred 3pm Saturday slot, but when there are so many moved about we're approaching a stage where even as a mid-range Championship side a minority of our home fixtures are taking place at the traditional time of 3pm Saturday.

[Mattyblue]

Any Riversiders transferring to the Jack Walker for the QPR firework display?

 

[Riversider28]

44 minutes ago, Paul said:

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration though as it depends on where one lives. Personally I'll be leaving home at 11.00, any side other than Leeds it would be 11.30. I don't like these 12.00 KOs  but I'm unsure if it's that inconvenient.

The huge Leeds away support is going to cause me far more inconvenience and cost money. We have a car park pass for the DE and regularly have to wait for 20-25 minutes for the car park gates to be opened after the away coaches have departed. On Saturday it could be up to an hour's delay so we have to leave home early and hopefully find a spot on Albion Mill etc. fort £3.

I live a 90 minute drive away from Ewood. I pick my daughter up in Notlob on the way, so it is not an exaggeration to say that some supporters will have to leave home straight after breakfast to get to the match for a 12 noon ko.

I am personally fed up with all these kick off changes and it does sometimes prevent me from attending home games. The red button now makes it easier to take the easy option and just sit on the sofa without the hassle of organising my day. Only 90 minutes of my life needs to be taken up by my passion, but it sucks because there is no atmosphere, banter, catching up with your mates etc. sat at home.

Over the years I have come to, reluctantly, accept that fans are way down the pecking order in this money obsessed football world when opinions are asked for and I genuinely fear for the future of football as a whole, not just my beloved team.

I will always follow Rovers, as I have done for well over the past 50 years, but maybe not in the flesh every game.

 

[perthblue02]

13 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Any Riversiders transferring to the Jack Walker for the QPR firework display?

 

Fast forward JULY 2019 -

Speaking exclusively to the Lancashire Telegraph Steve Waggot  informs us that due to  the successful test of numbers transferring from the Riverside to The Jack Walker stand, the club are pleased to announce the closure of the Riverside to home supporters for the 2019/20 season , and as a special offer to former Riversiders, season tickets prices will only rise 50 pound but you will be eligible for 25p extra credit on your 1875 club membership and a free mug featuring the recently departed Bradley Dack 

[JHRover]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

Fast forward JULY 2019 -

Speaking exclusively to the Lancashire Telegraph Steve Waggot  informs us that due to  the successful test of numbers transferring from the Riverside to The Jack Walker stand, the club are pleased to announce the closure of the Riverside to home supporters for the 2019/20 season , and as a special offer to former Riversiders, season tickets prices will only rise 50 pound but you will be eligible for 25p extra credit on your 1875 club membership and a free mug featuring the recently departed Bradley Dack 

Got to admit that thought did enter my head earlier today, didn't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist though!

[J*B]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration though as it depends on where one lives. Personally I'll be leaving home at 11.00, any side other than Leeds it would be 11.30. I don't like these 12.00 KOs  but I'm unsure if it's that inconvenient.

The huge Leeds away support is going to cause me far more inconvenience and cost money. We have a car park pass for the DE and regularly have to wait for 20-25 minutes for the car park gates to be opened after the away coaches have departed. On Saturday it could be up to an hour's delay so we have to leave home early and hopefully find a spot on Albion Mill etc. fort £3.

I have a car park pass which allows you to park on tweed street directly behind the jack walker stand. Send me a pm, I'll post it to you.

[perthblue02]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Got to admit that thought did enter my head earlier today, didn't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist though!

As Fox Mulder would say - Trust no one (who praises Venky's) 

[BlackburnEnd75]

19 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Fast forward JULY 2019 -

Speaking exclusively to the Lancashire Telegraph Steve Waggot  informs us that due to  the successful test of numbers transferring from the Riverside to The Jack Walker stand, the club are pleased to announce the closure of the Riverside to home supporters for the 2019/20 season , and as a special offer to former Riversiders, season tickets prices will only rise 50 pound but you will be eligible for 25p extra credit on your 1875 club membership and a free mug featuring the recently departed Bradley Dack 

I quite the idea of shutting the Riverside (if prices remained the same)

[blueboy3333]

3 hours ago, Paul said:

Or for only £37 extra supporters can watch and actually support their team, live in the stadium for £15/game.

Bit of a no brainer for me. Where's the joy in sitting on a sofa being told what one's watching by commentators incapable of forming a full sentence or using meaningful language? It's quite beyond me why anyone who can get to Ewood sees Sky as a better alternative. Still each to their own.

Not aimed at you blueboy

I don't have SKY so you are preaching to the converted.

Committing financially to a ST however can be financially onerous. I nearly didn't bother this season due to being skint. I also didn't realise how many games were on the red button. My old man (a ST holder) has been supporting Rovers avidly in the flesh since the early 1950's. He struggles with mobility now (and the cold) so he missed a load of games last season. He didn't know about the red button either until early into this season. I doubt he'll have a ST next year as he has SKY. He'll just buy match tickets as and when (i.e. when it's not the dead of winter). If prices go up again and Waggott continues to insult my intelligence (it doesn't take much admittedly?) I may well join the as-and-when punters. I would save a lot of money. If I just did 10 games and another ten were on SKY I'd only miss 3 and save £160. 

Life is a bit more complicated than 'support your team' for some.

If clubs are happy to take the SKY money, allow an unprecedented number of games to be shown live and yet still put admission prices up in half-empty stadiums then they can't complain when people stop bothering turning up. 

I may be wrong but the red-button is a bit of a game-changer (dreadful phrase). It wasn't well publicised or known about as far as I'm aware when ST renewals went out. Next spring/summer will be different. Everyone knows any game that isn't on at 3pm Saturday will be available for free on SKY. If you're struggling for money and have access to someone else's SKY it's a no-brainer (dreadful phrase No.2).

The out of touch Mr Waggott needs to think very carefully about ticket prices next summer if he wants to, at the very least, retain current ST holders. Clubs should never see financial loyalty as a given.

 

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, perthblue02 said:

and a free mug featuring the recently departed Bradley Dack 

…to Burnley ??

[Mattyblue]

Both Sky and other media only talked about midweek games being on the red button when promoting it in August.

The fact that ALL matches outside the 3pm Saturday window will be legally available was hidden about 10 paragraphs down an EFL press release when the new TV deal was signed last year.

All very disingenuous and as blueboy says we’ll see the real impact of if next season.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

26 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't have SKY so you are preaching to the converted.

Committing financially to a ST however can be financially onerous. I nearly didn't bother this season due to being skint. I also didn't realise how many games were on the red button. My old man (a ST holder) has been supporting Rovers avidly in the flesh since the early 1950's. He struggles with mobility now (and the cold) so he missed a load of games last season. He didn't know about the red button either until early into this season. I doubt he'll have a ST next year as he has SKY. He'll just buy match tickets as and when (i.e. when it's not the dead of winter). If prices go up again and Waggott continues to insult my intelligence (it doesn't take much admittedly?) I may well join the as-and-when punters. I would save a lot of money. If I just did 10 games and another ten were on SKY I'd only miss 3 and save £160. 

Life is a bit more complicated than 'support your team' for some.

If clubs are happy to take the SKY money, allow an unprecedented number of games to be shown live and yet still put admission prices up in half-empty stadiums then they can't complain when people stop bothering turning up. 

I may be wrong but the red-button is a bit of a game-changer (dreadful phrase). It wasn't well publicised or known about as far as I'm aware when ST renewals went out. Next spring/summer will be different. Everyone knows any game that isn't on at 3pm Saturday will be available for free on SKY. If you're struggling for money and have access to someone else's SKY it's a no-brainer (dreadful phrase No.2).

The out of touch Mr Waggott needs to think very carefully about ticket prices next summer if he wants to, at the very least, retain current ST holders. Clubs should never see financial loyalty as a given.

 

 

You've hit the nail on the head with this.

I think the term is 'taking people for granted'. Clubs want to have their cake by way of a big fat cheque dropping through the letterbox from Sky Sports but also want to eat it by having full grounds and healthy crowds to 'enhance the product'.

Taking people for granted by advertising season tickets and putting prices up without warning them that easily more than half of home games could be moved away from 3pm Saturday to midweek, Friday nights, Saturday lunch or tea time. Not really bothered once people are paid up because the rewards of Sky cash are far greater than a few disgruntled ST holders. Club isn't bothered whether they turn up or not as long as they renew next summer.

Irony is that Sky's broadcasting of all midweek games and Friday night fixtures is having a massive impact on gates, that much is obvious from the footage whilst it might not be reflected in the official figures released, yet they presumably don't accept or appreciate that this in the long run is only going to damage their precious product and atmospheres in grounds and make it less appealing to the neutral.

[JHRover]

30 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Both Sky and other media only talked about midweek games being on the red button when promoting it in August.

The fact that ALL matches outside the 3pm Saturday window will be legally available was hidden about 10 paragraphs down an EFL press release when the new TV deal was signed last year.

All very disingenuous and as blueboy says we’ll see the real impact of if next season.

Yep, and if you notice the red button games are not advertised with the same gusto as the standard TV games are. e.g. when we were at Bristol City there was no mention of it being on TV until the Friday beforehand when it popped up on Sky's fixture list as being on the red button. Same when Bristol played Sheff Wed the other week. Our game v Leeds has at no stage been promoted as a live game, instead apparently only moved on 'safety' grounds, yet conveniently Sky are able to put their precious Leeds on once again and have started putting mentions up on their advertising channel (Sky Sports News).

That's before getting on to the IFollow scandal affecting League One and Two clubs when the blackout doesn't apply and all games including Saturday 3pm ones can be viewed online for less than a match ticket.

It's going to take a significant drop off for them to accept what they are doing is damaging but certainly in the lower leagues I would expect that to happen.

[den9112]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I have a car park pass which allows you to park on tweed street directly behind the jack walker stand. Send me a pm, I'll post it to you.

As this kind offer been taken up if not having a car park spot sorted would save me rushing around and setting off on my journey to pick up my nephew and then get to match for the early kick off ..

 

[Mattyblue]

I believe this TV deal runs till about 2021/22, so it could have done untold damage by then.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I believe this TV deal runs till about 2021/22, so it could have done untold damage by then.

Oops!

[Paul]

7 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

I don't have SKY so you are preaching to the converted.

Committing financially to a ST however can be financially onerous. I nearly didn't bother this season due to being skint. I also didn't realise how many games were on the red button. My old man (a ST holder) has been supporting Rovers avidly in the flesh since the early 1950's. He struggles with mobility now (and the cold) so he missed a load of games last season. He didn't know about the red button either until early into this season. I doubt he'll have a ST next year as he has SKY. He'll just buy match tickets as and when (i.e. when it's not the dead of winter). If prices go up again and Waggott continues to insult my intelligence (it doesn't take much admittedly?) I may well join the as-and-when punters. I would save a lot of money. If I just did 10 games and another ten were on SKY I'd only miss 3 and save £160. 

Life is a bit more complicated than 'support your team' for some.

If clubs are happy to take the SKY money, allow an unprecedented number of games to be shown live and yet still put admission prices up in half-empty stadiums then they can't complain when people stop bothering turning up. 

I may be wrong but the red-button is a bit of a game-changer (dreadful phrase). It wasn't well publicised or known about as far as I'm aware when ST renewals went out. Next spring/summer will be different. Everyone knows any game that isn't on at 3pm Saturday will be available for free on SKY. If you're struggling for money and have access to someone else's SKY it's a no-brainer (dreadful phrase No.2).

The out of touch Mr Waggott needs to think very carefully about ticket prices next summer if he wants to, at the very least, retain current ST holders. Clubs should never see financial loyalty as a given.

 

 

I wasn't having a go at you as I said at the end of my post. It isn't simple for a lot of people for many different reasons. The point I was making is if fans stay at home to watch on the red button by paying an extra £37 they can watch the entire season live for just £15 - that's a no brainer for me.

I'm making general not personal remarks on this. It has always been difficult for people to get to every game. I've no idea if there are more or less midweek games, I do realise more Saturday games are being shifted around. This the price the game has to pay for allowing Sky on board.

What I don't hear is fans complaining about or doing anything about Sky. The vast majority have lapped it up for decades. A few, myself included, have been against it for the same time. Sky have destroyed English football without a murmur from fans. As is usual it's kick the Rovers when the club in fact had little choice in the matter. Rovers management have been as complicit in this whole Sky deal for as long as every other club and to start hammering the current club management now is wrong.

When the second Sky deal began back in the 90s I asked John Williams face to face if the clubs would stand up to player demands this time. He told me the PL chairmen were determined not to give in to the agents and players. That went well.

Senior management at every club, in every season and the FA have failed the game and the spectators yet millions happily lap up the Sky coverage.

The horse bolted years ago. Anyone who really cares, wants to change things should first cancel Sky, tell them and the club why and stop using pubs which broadcast the games.

It won't make a jot of difference though as the game sold out for gold a long time ago.