Attendances

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Biz said:

It’s hard to argue with majority of key decisions taken in the last twelve months. That doesn’t mean they’ve fixed their cock ups. Whilst they continue to hire decent people and invest in the team - it becomes less of deterrent to lapsed fans or more casual to return.

The price and surcharge are taking up that mantle.

On the lake of tranquility, maybe so.

But that doesn’t mean attendances will increase.

That will involve reaching out to all those who are pissed off with a variety of issues which in truth are easily solved if the club has the will. It is entirely possible to get 18K back in the Champ on a regular basis.

[OldEwoodBlue]

2 minutes ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

I am with you on the point, yet "in the good old days", if the pies ran out, they did! So what, we are there for the game? Is Waggott working for our pie suppliers? Agree, bums on seats!!

AGREED 1 million percent.

If the pies ran out... or my fav pie ran out.... so what.

bums on seats and pies sold out every week = no waste

 

[gumboots]

39 minutes ago, Biz said:

The simple fact is the habit will return when they are engaged by the product, not some "imaginative" marketing scheme. I'm not suggesting this is the best solution, I am saying it is not a valid excuse for none-attendance. It is merely being jumped on as such. 

The perfect excuse now the owners are actually holding up their side of the bargain!

You keep saying the product itself, ie performances on the pitch, have improved but crowds are not back. How can people engage with that product if they're not coming into the ground? Imaginative marketing is needed before people can be engaged by the product

[gumboots]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I thought they also wanted to boost the computer system for targeted advertising - something you don’t get from cash last minute sales

 

 

I don't want targeted advertising. I just want to be able to turn up if and when I choose to watch the match and not be charged extra if I decide to do it at the last minute. 

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

The simple fact is the habit will return when they are engaged by the product, not some "imaginative" marketing scheme. I'm not suggesting this is the best solution, I am saying it is not a valid excuse for none-attendance. It is merely being jumped on as such. 

 

As Gumboots says, you need to get people to engage in the first place. Therefore we are back at why not do special offers for Big weekend games rather than the usual ones which don't grab the imagination.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Firstly why do you need a bank card when you can phone up, pre order and then pay cash?

That would create the exact problems at the ticket office that Waggott says the surcharge is there to discourage.

[Stuart]

Have you joined a debating team, Joe, where you have to defend an indefensible argument? You are certainly doing an admirable job of the customer championing a price increase and additional levy.

How would you feel if they brought in a surcharge for season ticket holders who arrive after 2:30pm so they can reduce the number of hours for security staff?

[47er]

26 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Have you joined a debating team, Joe, where you have to defend an indefensible argument? 

Bloody hell Stuart, surely you haven't just noticed! 

[SBlue]

2 hours ago, Franky said:

AGREED 1 million percent.

If the pies ran out... or my fav pie ran out.... so what.

bums on seats and pies sold out every week = no waste

 

Maybe we could ensure that we don’t run out with a simple pricing restructure.

 

As the pie stock get lower, we charge more so that only the truely hungry will pay.

A pie after 2.30pm should be a tenner.

10 minutes to kick off and the pie is £50.

 

Thoughts?

[47er]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

The simple fact is the habit will return when they are engaged by the product, not some "imaginative" marketing scheme. I'm not suggesting this is the best solution, I am saying it is not a valid excuse for none-attendance. It is merely being jumped on as such. 

The perfect excuse now the owners are actually holding up their side of the bargain!

A couple of points:

What sort of Orwellian world do you want to live in? People do not need an "excuse" to watch a game or not and for you to be judging whether its "valid" or not is sickeningly arrogant. We are talking about people taking various factors into account when deciding how to spend their own money!

Secondly have we any Rovers fans organisation willing or capable of representing the fans on this issue? Waggot may well believe after meeting with the Fans Forum that our fans aren't bothered by the surcharge or even support it.

[Stuart]

24 minutes ago, 47er said:

Bloody hell Stuart, surely you haven't just noticed! 

Well... it’s got to the point where it looks to be a sport rather than just youthful exuberance!

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

A couple of points:

What sort of Orwellian world do you want to live in? People do not need an "excuse" to watch a game or not and for you to be judging whether its "valid" or not is sickeningly arrogant. We are talking about people taking various factors into account when deciding how to spend their own money!

Secondly have we any Rovers fans organisation willing or capable of representing the fans on this issue? Waggot may well believe after meeting with the Fans Forum that our fans aren't bothered by the surcharge or even support it.

Well there are several on here who support it so it’s not beyond the realms.

[47er]

Just now, Stuart said:

Well... it’s got to the point where it looks to be a sport rather than just youthful exuberance!

Its a long-term passion ---like stamp-collecting!

[toooldforthis]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

Firstly why do you need a bank card when you can phone up, pre order and then pay cash?

Secondly - your entire argument about being difficult to do business with is ironically punctuated by your lack of ability to pay via bank? Come on, its 2018 for christ sake.

Thirdly - if your son had a problem with the cost of the tickets at home... How on earth is he justifying going to away Games? They are generally the same or more expensive.

No offence intended, but your argument as rationale is flawed. I have some opinions about improving sales at Ewood but I don't think anyone can turn around and say the sole reason for not being involved or support is the customer relationship - its not second to none anymore, but its certainly not the joke people are suggesting.

Answers to your questions -

Due to several reduncancies, and resultant crash of my credit score, my financial circumstances dictate that I am only allowed to have a "Basic" bank account from which I cannot make transfers nor have a card.

Pre-ordering necesitates the use of a card to guarantee purchases prior to turning up at Ewood and paying cash in person - I don't have a card ergo I can't pre-order.

Many many people today are in the same financial position (the FT reports that more Basic bank accounts were opened in 2017 than any other type of account) we can only use cash.  Those of you with access to credit need to to think about others not so fortunate.  And the club needs to think about us too.  They should be looking to maximise attendance from all sectors of the fan base, not just the financially fortunate.

Also, I never said my son couldn't afford to go to Ewood. Apart from simple geography, it's more financially logical for him to attend away games where he knows he is paying the same price as everybody else.

Scrap the Waggott Tax!!!!

[JBiz]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The one aspect of your posts which perhaps makes them seem more defensive of the clubs pricing strategies etc is the constant urge to criticise fans who dont attend.

Wouldn’t describe it as an urge, just frustration. I get frustrated at others not supporting the club since turnover x decent decisions = better prospects. Obligation isn’t the word I’d use but I wouldn’t refer to it like a standard “business” either like some.

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Have you joined a debating team, Joe, where you have to defend an indefensible argument? You are certainly doing an admirable job of the customer championing a price increase and additional levy.

As RF says, I don’t support and have criticised the charge, I just don’t think it’s worthy of the level of outcry. Like I’ve said a dozen times, it’s a very suitable excuse to replace the “I’m not funding corruption” tag of yesteryear.

2 minutes ago, toooldforthis said:

Also, I never said my son couldn't afford to go to Ewood. Apart from simple geography, it's more financially logical for him to attend away games where he knows he is paying the same price as everybody else.

Fair enough on the bank account but you did say; “He has been to more away games than home simply because of the Ewood ticketing policy.” 

This is exactly what I am saying -  it’s convenient to use pricing as the reason at current, when the on pitch product and direction is better in recent times. In your sons case, geographical - moving away.

*

The last season we averaged 10k more, or 23k was 2008. There’s no coincidence this was in the premier league under Big Sam (who didn’t lose many home games) and it’s also no coincidence we had much cheaper STs and more offers, because the TV revenue subsidies made our attendance money “Chicken feed”.

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I just cant fathom how you are incapable of realising that people queuing up on matchday or the stat of 800 walk-ons a game is NOT proof that it hasnt put anyone off. 

Your argument is that MOST people will not be put off by the surcharge and you seemingly have a valid point. But no one is saying otherwise. The fact that 800 are clearly unaffected by paying the surcharge as an isolated statistic is a moot, useless one. Its the people that arent there, and more so the quantity of them, partially or solely because of the surcharge that we are interested in.

Its proof that its seems the majority of late potential fans arent put off. 

10 hours ago, gumboots said:

You keep saying the product itself, ie performances on the pitch, have improved but crowds are not back. How can people engage with that product if they're not coming into the ground? Imaginative marketing is needed before people can be engaged by the product

By fans coming to ground and supporting the team instead of waiting for special offers and cheap tickets. The season tickets for the full season and half season are cheap enough. Around 15 pounds per adult. Cheaper for kids. Sounds a good deal to me

Edited November 19, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[Mattyblue]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you think you’re on to a good deal, doesn’t mean others think the same.

18,000 empty seats every week and EFL rules literally spell out that clubs are free to utilise four ‘local promotion’ games a seasons, by the halfway mark of the season we’ll have offered zero.

Amazing when there is so much supply, what’s to lose?

[gumboots]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

By fans coming to ground and supporting the team instead of waiting for special offers and cheap tickets. The season tickets for the full season and half season are cheap enough. Around 15 pounds per adult. Cheaper for kids. Sounds a good deal to me

They're not cheap if you can't get to more than half the matches for whatever reason though. And I've told you so many times, we're not talking about fans who want to be there already. We're talking about enticing in potential supporters who don't have the Rovers bug yet or who've so far lost it that they might need encouraging back. ATM you wouldn't say to a mate, " Rovers are at home this afternoon. Do you fancy going?" because you know it might cost them £30 basic. Cinema prices have been quoted as being as high, but I've never paid more than a tenner each. The other things people quote are food and drink prices which I never pay for at the cinema. And many Vue cinemas are now 4.99 any film, any time. 

I'm not saying Rovers are any more expensive than other clubs. I don't know if they are or not. Merely that if they got more imaginative with pricing they might pull more in. The hardcore have paid for their season ticket and regular walk ons might bring a mate or family member who doesn't usually attend if there was a deal. I just don't get what the club has to lose now by trying it. Half season ticket sales will bring in a few but again, it's a commitment many people, because of work or other things can't make

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its proof that its seems the majority of late potential fans arent put off. 

By fans coming to ground and supporting the team instead of waiting for special offers and cheap tickets. The season tickets for the full season and half season are cheap enough. Around 15 pounds per adult. Cheaper for kids. Sounds a good deal to me

To the first line, that's irrelevant. It's ripping off your own fan base just to get more money in the coffers. And according to you, it seems like the surcharge is not having the desired effect it was introduced for.

Second line,  many people have given up watching Rovers over the last 8 years through various reasons. You aren't going to get the Premier League fans going at the moment. However others have just stopped going because they stopped enjoying the calamitous sideshow off the pitch whilst a revolving door of mercenary, has beens or half-decent players came and went. People have disconnected from the club. As others warned, these ex-supporters have probably found other things to do and don't sit there regretting not going to Ewood anymore. Now this is a shame because we have a manager and team showing "Total Commitment" (© Rovers Social Media and Advertising Depertment). For the first time in years there is a connection between the the fans and, not just one or two, but practically all of the team. However the people who aren't attending don't feel this. They aren't interested as they currently think whatever they do on a Saturday is more enjoyable than going to Ewood based on their last experiences.

How do we get these people down to Ewood to re-engage? By making the Sheff Wednesday game on New Years day a tenner. Most people are off work. Whether its people buying tickets or getting tickets as Christmas presents, if that game was a tenner and well publicised we would get close to or above 18,000 home fans IMO. Sure we would lose money than it being full price, but if just 500 of these fans came regularly for the rest of the season the club would be better off. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Hasta

[blueboy3333]

 

9 hours ago, Biz said:

Like I’ve said a dozen times, it’s a very suitable excuse to replace the “I’m not funding corruption” tag of yesteryear.

Two people have given you reasons why they have to pay it if they want to watch Rovers. They have no choice. Those people are being ripped off. 

You don't even agree with the surcharge,  yet you continue to argue against those that are directly affected by it. Your starting position seems to be something you've invented in your head.

It's all very weird. You seem to be straying into MB troll territory. 

 

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Biz said:

Wouldn’t describe it as an urge, just frustration. I get frustrated at others not supporting the club since turnover x decent decisions = better prospects. Obligation isn’t the word I’d use but I wouldn’t refer to it like a standard “business” either like some.

Ironically one of the reasons given by Paul as an excuse for the surcharge. It happens at airlines dontchaknow. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its proof that its seems the majority of late potential fans arent put off. 

By fans coming to ground and supporting the team instead of waiting for special offers and cheap tickets. The season tickets for the full season and half season are cheap enough. Around 15 pounds per adult. Cheaper for kids. Sounds a good deal to me

"It seems" is hardly proof but you seem totally unable to grasp that no one is saying that the majority of potential walk ons are put off by the surcharge, in fact ive even given numbers of roughly how many people it would take to financially override any additional revenue caused by the surcharge. It is obviously a minority, but there are examples within this thread of people offput by the surcharge, and if that is happening to anyone then it has to be of concern and worthy of investigation.

Your second platitude is meaningless. And as other people have said, these potential additional fans are not the hard core. They are those who arent as interested/emotionally invested as us, those who have fallen out of love with the club, those who have yet to get attached, those who have other things to do should they not find value in buying Rovers tickets. Your comment is ignorant and desperate, urging people to "support the team" rather than offer a constructive point about tickets/attendances/surcharges.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

 

How do we get these people down to Ewood to re-engage? By making the Sheff Wednesday game on New Years day a tenner. Most people are off work. Whether its people buying tickets or getting tickets as Christmas presents, if that game was a tenner and well publicised we would get close to or above 18,000 home fans IMO. Sure we would lose money than it being full price, but if just 500 of these fans came regularly for the rest of the season the club would be better off. 

Good idea, which I would support.

My usual argument would be to blast Sheffield Wednesday fans with £30+ tickets and we could still do that whilst offering home adult tickets for £10 each. Use it as a local promotion game and we are perfectly within our rights to do that.

Thereby Waggott can have his precious 3000-4000 away fans paying full whack whilst also showing serious efforts to get a bumper home gate on. If Wednesday were to bring 4000 in the lower DE and we were charging £10 an adult on New Year's Day I'm certain there'd be 20,000+ on Ewood and a fantastic atmosphere.

Unfortunately the concept of local promotions appears to have been lost on those at Ewood as I think the only time it has been done in the last few years was against Oxford last season. So instead I expect we'll get Category A pricing on the basis Wednesday can be relied upon to bring 3000+ whatever the price and on the false basis that Rovers cannot charge less for home fans (even though they can and the rules specifically allow them to do so). So it will be £25 all round and £28 on the day preventing a late surge and as a result 16000 at best on Ewood. And I suspect the majority of staff employed on matchday will be quite happy with that number as it is easier to prepare for and manage than getting 22000 on. What a shame. This is the sort of fixture, on a Bank Holiday, that people would make a late decision to go to after they had got New Year's Eve out of the way and have time on their hands the day after. Also the sort that would probably attract a large number of non-regular fans rather than say Reading at home midweek.

Edited November 19, 2018 by JHRover

[MCMC1875]

16 hours ago, Franky said:

AGREED 1 million percent.

If the pies ran out... or my fav pie ran out.... so what.

bums on seats and pies sold out every week = no waste

 

Oreyt AndyW, MGPensioner, Suhail Slayer, Franky, you've got more accounts than NatWest. What happened with the Elton John concert? It wouldn't matter if your fave pie ran out, you don't go to Ewood.

Edited November 19, 2018 by MCMC1875

[blueboy3333]

SURCHARGE FACTS:-

800 people are known to pay it at certain matches. 

Some of those people have no choice but to pay it if they want to support their club. 

Nobody knows how many people it stops from going.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by blueboy3333