Rovers away at Preston NE: 24th November 2018 - 3pm. The match thread.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, RV Blue said:

4 likes on this load of nonsense, astounding lack of footballing knowledge.

If you put them both together you still wouldn't have a good left back.

[Crimpshrine]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If he has said that then he is heading down a path of his stubbornness potentially continuing to create animosity and disagreement with the supporters.

That argument doesnt hold much weight when his primary alternative is to play Bradley Dack and Kasey Palmer in his place when Graham is unavailable.

Your theory may be right in that he made his name at this level as a central striker. He also looks like a fish out of water playing as a wide man.

He was quite clear about his opinion on Brereton's abilities at the moment. Also said he was a great lad and well liked by everyone. But it sounds like he's not getting a game up front any time soon. 

Have a listen on radio Lancs on Wednesday night. Hopefully it won't be edited.

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If he has said that then he is heading down a path of his stubbornness potentially continuing to create animosity and disagreement with the supporters.

That argument doesnt hold much weight when his primary alternative is to play Bradley Dack and Kasey Palmer in his place when Graham is unavailable.

Your theory may be right in that he made his name at this level as a central striker. He also looks like a fish out of water playing as a wide man.

Mowbray doesn't see Brereton as a centre forward, that much is clear to us. He has said many times that he sees him as a wide player so why doesn't he even get a start in a wide role? Something just doesn't add up here.

[Gav]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Mowbray doesn't see Brereton as a centre forward, that much is clear to us. He has said many times that he sees him as a wide player so why doesn't he even get a start in a wide role? Something just doesn't add up here.

It's amazing what a season of success can do arbitro, it's like the past 8/9yrs didn't happen on occasions posting on here.

The Brereton deal and subsequent bench warming is extremely strange, Mowbray doesn't think he's ready clearly. But as I said yesterday it's all very Venkyesq and reminds us all that they're still very much in charge at the club and we're only ever a bad decision away from disaster.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Gav

[Mercer]

16 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

 

On Thursday Mowbray said quite categorically, on and off the record, that Brereton is not ready to play down the middle due to his lack of upper body strength, inability to hold the ball up or turn defenders. I am convinced he was not Mowbray's choice when he was signed ( See Ben Brereton thread for full discussion). Venky's playing some sort of Moneyball game in my opinion.

 

Staggering.

If Mowbray's choice then one almighty clanger I think.  'Lack of upper body strength' - don't we have a gym and fitness specialists?   'Inability to hold the ball up or turn defenders' - if he aint got it now, it's doubtful he ever will.  Why 'waste' £7million?

If not Mowbray's choice then, IMV, he simply is not running our football club.  The £7million Rovers have committed could have been used much better to strengthen the team by bringing in players who would make an immediate impact.

[den]

Yesterday’s display just emphasised that for away games like PNE  we need for a solid squad capable of playing 4-4-2 with Dack and Graham up front and options man for man on the bench - pretty standard stuff really. We seem to be quite a way from that.

we are better than we were yesterday though.

Edited November 25, 2018 by den

[blueboy3333]

21 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

On Thursday Mowbray said quite categorically, on and off the record, that Brereton is not ready to play down the middle due to his lack of upper body strength, inability to hold the ball up or turn defenders. I am convinced he was not Mowbray's choice when he was signed ( See Ben Brereton thread for full discussion). Venky's playing some sort of Moneyball game in my opinion.

So he's spent £7m on someone who can't do the job. Unbelievable. £500k you can understand, even a million or two, but £7m is incredible. So incredible he has to play a midfielder up front.

Brentford do moneyball but they've never spent £7m. 

 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

It's amazing what a season of success can do arbitro, it's like the past 8/9yrs didn't happen on occasions posting on here.

The Brereton deal and subsequent bench warming is extremely strange, Mowbray doesn't think he's ready clearly. But as I said yesterday it's all very Venkyesq and reminds us all that they're still very much in charge at the club and we're only ever a bad decision away from disaster.

This has been mentioned by one or two of the more reasoned posters for some time now Gav. Something very odd about the whole deal starting with the bid an hour before the transfer deadline ended.

[JHRover]

The Brereton deal has looked dodgy from the word go. Mowbray's stubborn refusal to play him and the lengths he will go to try and find an alternative 'solution' only add to the bewilderment. 

Still don't believe for one minute that we've committed to £7 million on this lad. Perhaps one reason we ain't starting him is to avoid financial commitments that kick in if he starts X number of games for us?

I appreciate what Mowbray has done but if a manager ever needed a crash course in how to annoy your own supporters it would be similar to what he did yesterday. 

Turn up at your local rivals without a CF, start the game way off the pace, end up getting embarrassed by local rivals and then turn around afterwards with a series of excuses and attempts to absolve himself of responsibility. I'm afraid the excuse re. Danny Graham won't cut it. Not when he's spent millions on Brereton and Armstrong and refuses to play either in the positions we're short in.

He needs to respond accordingly on Wednesday.

Edited November 25, 2018 by JHRover

[hornbycastle]

This was taken on the kop at Deepdale yesterday, hahaha Oh dear make your mind up buddy are you a plastic or not

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by hornbycastle

[chaddyrovers]

51 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My points werent necessarily opposing yours. Just my opinions on Mowbrays tactics.

I think its very simplistic to suggest that Dack being man marked out of games. It doesnt suit any of our players to play long ball, it doesnt suit Palmer, it doesnt suit Rothwell, it doesnt suit Armstrong and even Graham, against 2 6ft odd centre backs.

Dack is not very easy to mark out of games as he still impacts them with his goals. Whilst he continues to do that, and provide our only consistent source of goals, he has to be the first name on the team sheet, in his natural position.

For all this talk about Mowbray evolving the side to be a passing side, I've not seen any signs of it this season at all. I think the transfer recruitment in the summer brought players that definitely have talent, but overall youd have to say that it has not been a success. Reed has been very good, but otherwise, Mowbray has been too reluctant to modify things to incorporate his new signings. Palmer, Rothwell, Rodwell and Armstrong have all been in and out, 20 minutes here, a start there, but he doesnt seem to trust any of them, nor does he seem to be getting the best from them, and they are potentially players that can help us to evolve. Brereton is the most obvious symbol of a very confusing summer transfer recruitment, not fit for purpose, and at times left out to dry when playing in the wrong position, always as a sub.

I dont think or expect us to suddenly transform into a free flowing, passing side. Nor do I think it would be wise to abandon the effectiveness and the stability of the players that did so well for us last season, the Smallwoods, the Bennetts, the Evans. But with our attacking players, the most long balls in the league, and watching us, the amount of aimless punts forward just screams of brainless football that can be infuriating to watch.

so why quote my posts then? 

how is it very simplistic to suggest that Dack is being man marked out of games when he is clearly is. I have watched it recently and Norwood for Sheffield, Pearson for PNE, QPR and Rotherham have marked out of games. I suspect Wigan and Sheff Wed will employ the same tactics. 

It appears that Brereton will be playing wide for the next year future judging by Mowbray comments which I don't agree with. 

53 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

 

On Thursday Mowbray said quite categorically, on and off the record, that Brereton is not ready to play down the middle due to his lack of upper body strength, inability to hold the ball up or turn defenders. I am convinced he was not Mowbray's choice when he was signed ( See Ben Brereton thread for full discussion). Venky's playing some sort of Moneyball game in my opinion.

 

I don't see how you can say he wasn't Brereton choice? can you expand on this? why would they interfere on Mowbray when they seem to completely trust him

[roversfan99]

44 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

He was quite clear about his opinion on Brereton's abilities at the moment. Also said he was a great lad and well liked by everyone. But it sounds like he's not getting a game up front any time soon. 

Have a listen on radio Lancs on Wednesday night. Hopefully it won't be edited.

 

35 minutes ago, Gav said:

It's amazing what a season of success can do arbitro, it's like the past 8/9yrs didn't happen on occasions posting on here.

The Brereton deal and subsequent bench warming is extremely strange, Mowbray doesn't think he's ready clearly. But as I said yesterday it's all very Venkyesq and reminds us all that they're still very much in charge at the club and we're only ever a bad decision away from disaster.

Brereton made his name as a striker and apparently went off the boil at Forest but even assuming that wasnt the case and Mowbray had seen a facet in his game that he felt could thrive in a wide role. Which is blatantly not the case hence his uncomfortable nature when played there.

They key to it all would be, we would only have the privelidge to be able to do if striker was a position to which we was already well stocked in. 

His explanation that Brereton isnt physically capable of playing centrally is a load of bollocks considering that Dack and Palmer are deployed there instead.

He's treating Brereton wrongly full stop but even if playing him wide had some sense, hes acting as if hes been signed for a couple of hundred thousands as a project aside to a main striker who has already been signed. That quite simply is not the case! Mowbray bleated on in the summer about need

Whilst acknowldging Venkys incompetence, I dont want to get embroiled in conspiracy theories but even if hes not his signing, hes using him wrongly regardless. And he has no one to blame but himself on that.

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

so why quote my posts then? 

how is it very simplistic to suggest that Dack is being man marked out of games when he is clearly is. I have watched it recently and Norwood for Sheffield, Pearson for PNE, QPR and Rotherham have marked out of games. I suspect Wigan and Sheff Wed will employ the same tactics. 

It appears that Brereton will be playing wide for the next year future judging by Mowbray comments which I don't agree with. 

I don't see how you can say he wasn't Brereton choice? can you expand on this? why would they interfere on Mowbray when they seem to completely trust him

Why would Mowbray use the vast majority of his transfer pot on a player he doesn't trust or doesn't think is capable of playing in his team for more than 20 minutes? Why would Mowbray prefer to use no striker than his expensive striker? Why would Mowbray sit on that cash all summer then throw a bid in for Brereton at the last minute completely out of the blue? Surely you can see why people are baffled by that piece of business. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

so why quote my posts then? 

how is it very simplistic to suggest that Dack is being man marked out of games when he is clearly is. I have watched it recently and Norwood for Sheffield, Pearson for PNE, QPR and Rotherham have marked out of games. I suspect Wigan and Sheff Wed will employ the same tactics. 

It appears that Brereton will be playing wide for the next year future judging by Mowbray comments which I don't agree with. 

I don't see how you can say he wasn't Brereton choice? can you expand on this? why would they interfere on Mowbray when they seem to completely trust him

Discussion about our tactics.

I was saying that we need to look at how we get Dack into the game, not move his position, not drop him, just stop with the long ball crap, play through the lines, be less conservative with midfield selections and of course Dack needs to look himself at finding ways of thriving in spite of the extra attention, and our other attackers thriving in the space it leaves.

As I have said above, if Brereton continues to be played and subsequently fail and flounder out of position, then the criticism will keep coming Mowbrays way. Mowbray is a seasoned manager, he abandoned the 3 at the back nonsense, hopefully he will do likewise with this experiment!

[1864roverite]

Suffered death by text from my nobber supporting mate. Now having seen all the goals which were all avoidable and results from poor defending I am even more gutted!

Roll on to wiggin 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

Why would Mowbray use the vast majority of his transfer pot on a player he doesn't trust or doesn't think is capable of playing in his team for more than 20 minutes? Why would Mowbray prefer to use no striker than his expensive striker? Why would Mowbray sit on that cash all summer then throw a bid in for Brereton at the last minute completely out of the blue? Surely you can see why people are baffled by that piece of business. 

Mowbray from day 1 has protect him and said this was long term signing. 

I have no idea why he play the no striker system as I would play Brereton there yesterday and I think the impact he had in the last 3 games shows he is capable. I think Mowbray is being far to overprotect of him and show play him. 

I don't know why he waited on the cash. Maybe he wanted Waghorn or Bamford but miss out on them. I don't know. We were bidding for other players aswell like Luke Freeman was none of these questions put to Mowbray on the supporters meeting on Thursday and exactly why Mowbray should have attended the meeting

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Discussion about our tactics.

I was saying that we need to look at how we get Dack into the game, not move his position, not drop him, just stop with the long ball crap, play through the lines, be less conservative with midfield selections and of course Dack needs to look himself at finding ways of thriving in spite of the extra attention, and our other attackers thriving in the space it leaves.

As I have said above, if Brereton continues to be played and subsequently fail and flounder out of position, then the criticism will keep coming Mowbrays way. Mowbray is a seasoned manager, he abandoned the 3 at the back nonsense, hopefully he will do likewise with this experiment!

I would drop him for the Wigan game, for me, he needs a kick up the ass and realise he has to fight for his place. 

Dack is man marked and that's stop us from playing and then we started playing the long ball game. I have highlights 4 managers who have all done it and stop us from playing. They know stop Dack, you stop Dack from playing, you stop Rovers playing

[den9112]

BB is a striker and that was considered is postion while at Forest although not considered to be a prolific goal scorer a lot of that was put down to Mike Warburton playing him basicaly as a right winger ...Personaly i have not seen enough of him to base a full opinion but i am sure he is more of a natural forward man than what we put up front at the start of the game yesterday ..

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray from day 1 has protect him and said this was long term signing. 

I have no idea why he play the no striker system as I would play Brereton there yesterday and I think the impact he had in the last 3 games shows he is capable. I think Mowbray is being far to overprotect of him and show play him. 

I don't know why he waited on the cash. Maybe he wanted Waghorn or Bamford but miss out on them. I don't know. We were bidding for other players aswell like Luke Freeman was none of these questions put to Mowbray on the supporters meeting on Thursday and exactly why Mowbray should have attended the meeting

I would drop him for the Wigan game, for me, he needs a kick up the ass and realise he has to fight for his place. 

Dack is man marked and that's stop us from playing and then we started playing the long ball game. I have highlights 4 managers who have all done it and stop us from playing. They know stop Dack, you stop Dack from playing, you stop Rovers playing

He may be protecting Brereton with his quotes but hes throwing him under the bus in reality by only playing him for 20 minutes at a time out of position.

I agree with your comments in the second paragraph.

I think our summer recruitment, whilst we signed some talented players, has proven to be imbalanced and failed to address the areas that we needed to strengthen. The area he publically prioritised was striker and we know whats happened there. Rothwell, Rodwell, Palmer and Armstrong he has failed to phase into the team consistently or get anything substantial out of, Davenport has not got off the injury table, Brereton has been totally unfit for purpose and Reed has been the one consistent plus point. It was a key summer in which he was given a considerable budget to develop the squad and I dont think it was particularly successful.

The fact that its that easy to stop us playing says more about us and the rest of our players than it does about Dack.

Dack has scored 8 goals and has 2 assists in 14 league games. 3 in the last 7 in which his form has undoubtedly dipped slightly in tandem with Mowbray not using him correctly by playing him as a striker in a few of those games. Moving him here there and everywhere isnt the solution.

[den9112]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Moving him here there and everywhere isnt the solution.

This i 100% agree with and hopefuly TM will finaly see that it aint working ..

[Gav]

Saw an article with Mick Rathbone last week, he was quoted as saying Brereton has the potential be top top player, having worked with him previously.

We have no chance of going up this season in my opinion, so I'm not concerned how Mowbrays sees Brereton role right now as long as he's ready for next season. 

But I do worry the Venky hand has been involved with this one.

 

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, Gav said:

Saw an article with Mick Rathbone last week, he was quoted as saying Brereton has the potential be top top player, having worked with him previously.

We have no chance of going up this season in my opinion, so I'm not concerned how Mowbrays sees Brereton role right now as long as he's ready for next season. 

But I do worry the Venky hand has been involved with this one.

 

I know you havent said this as such, but surely we cant have such a total disregard for results this season and look solely to next season? What will suddenly change in a mere matter of months?

And whilst I appreciate that Brereton is somewhat of a development project. And theres a seperate and obvious argument as to whether we can afford one for the amount we paid. Surely the best way to develop him as a striker is to play him in that role.

And then theres the obvious confidence factor and how that may be affected if hes asked to play in a role he doesnt suit.

[K-Hod]

19 minutes ago, Gav said:

Saw an article with Mick Rathbone last week, he was quoted as saying Brereton has the potential be top top player, having worked with him previously.

We have no chance of going up this season in my opinion, so I'm not concerned how Mowbrays sees Brereton role right now as long as he's ready for next season. 

But I do worry the Venky hand has been involved with this one.

 

No disputing his potential, but Mowbray isn’t helping himself by spending all that money on a striker and not playing him there. Not to mention Brereton being up against it from the word go as he’s out of position....

[Gav]

Just now, K-Hod said:

No disputing his potential, but Mowbray isn’t helping himself by spending all that money on a striker and not playing him there. Not to mention Brereton being up against it from the word go as he’s out of position....

Could this be the Venky hand meddling in team matters? 

I have no idea K-Hod, absolute speculation on my part, but would Mowbray use this sort of money on a player with potential only, when he's crying out for strength in other areas?

 

[chaddyrovers]

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I think our summer recruitment, whilst we signed some talented players, has proven to be imbalanced and failed to address the areas that we needed to strengthen. The area he publically prioritised was striker and we know whats happened there. Rothwell, Rodwell, Palmer and Armstrong he has failed to phase into the team consistently or get anything substantial out of, Davenport has not got off the injury table, Brereton has been totally unfit for purpose and Reed has been the one consistent plus point. It was a key summer in which he was given a considerable budget to develop the squad and I dont think it was particularly successful.

The fact that its that easy to stop us playing says more about us and the rest of our players than it does about Dack.

Dack has scored 8 goals and has 2 assists in 14 league games. 3 in the last 7 in which his form has undoubtedly dipped slightly in tandem with Mowbray not using him correctly by playing him as a striker in a few of those games. Moving him here there and everywhere isnt the solution.

I sought off disagree on the recruitment side apart from a pacey winger. I think we had a good recruitment window. Armstrong has been poor and that's dwon to form. Palmer is too much of show pony for me and work rate not good enough. Rothwell should be starting for me. Its a long season and I expect we see Rothwell and Rodwell more as the season goes on. 

Its down to everyone yes but Dack is in the key position. Sometimes he got to more clever and drift wide and use his skills. Staying central is easier for the opposition and they can man marked him out of the game and sit deep. Norwood and Pearson did the job on him and we lost both games comfortable.  

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Well that was embarrassing. I work in Preston so not looking forward to Monday morning.

I came away from the fans consultation meeting on Thursday full of admiration for Mowbray and convinced he was the best man for the job - and then he comes up with that brain-fart of a team selection. Total blame is on him for complete nonsense idea that nobody else would have come up with. Unbelievable.

Even after the fillip of the goal at the start of the second half we continued to give a Coylesque performance. It was the team selection that had set the scene and reduced confidence.

On Thursday Mowbray said quite categorically, on and off the record, that Brereton is not ready to play down the middle due to his lack of upper body strength, inability to hold the ball up or turn defenders. I am convinced he was not Mowbray's choice when he was signed ( See Ben Brereton thread for full discussion). Venky's playing some sort of Moneyball game in my opinion.

Very, very disappointed with that performance- players to some extent but mainly by Mowbray.

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on about Brereton I don't think it's dodgy but could go down the somebody advising somebody line and Mowbray has gone along with it. Nothing has convinced me from the get go that he was a target of TM it seems like something that just cropped up and they went for it quickly.

This lad is still at the development stage and as I've said he'd be better still getting some U23 games under his belt or even going on loan to league 1 as mad as that might sound. If he was still at Forest or had come through our own set up chances are that's what would be happening.  As I've argued before if he really isn't physically ready to make a decent contribution, Mowbray has more less said that, then we should've had somebody who could and leave this one to develop slowly or left it alone.

Some somewhere will be hoping to make a good few quid quite quickly on this lad after getting him on our books that's why he's here !