JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

We brought in competition/cover for Williams at left back why not do it right back?

We have Travis as well. I don't think the squad needs a back up right back as a priority. We only had Williams on the left so Bell was very much needed. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

We have Travis as well. I don't think the squad needs a back up right back as a priority. We only had Williams on the left so Bell was very much needed. 

Mowbray has never used Travis as a right back and even with Nyambe out injured he hasn't always made the squad. The best thing for Travis would be to go out on loan and play first team football as it is a waste for someone as good as him to not be playing regularly. 

[bluebruce]

19 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

It's not Bennett's fault he We brought in competition/cover for Williams at left back why not do it right back?

As someone above me just said, we had zero left back cover. Also, most people slam Bell anyway and say we need a new, better left back. When you're picking up players in that price range, that's often what they will say, because of the quality you tend to get for that price. A full back on Nyambe's level, such that it won't make any difference when/if he is out, is expensive.

I can just see us in a neverending cycle of buying 500k fullbacks and people endlessly insisting we need another cos X isn't as good as Nyambe.

Edited November 18, 2018 by bluebruce

[Ewood Ace]

16 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

As someone above me just said, we had zero left back cover. Also, most people slam Bell anyway and say we need a new, better left back. When you're picking up players in that price range, that's often what they will say, because of the quality you tend to get for that price. A full back on Nyambe's level, such that it won't make any difference when/if he is out, is expensive.

I'd argue that we have no cover for Nyambe. If our right back gets injured then we have to play a winger there and if either of our centre backs get injured we have to play either a left back or central midfielder there. You can't expect to push for top 6 if you have to consistently play square pegs in round holes. Left back is the only position where we have a natural replacement. As for saying there's no point signing anyone as you won't get anyone good enough for the price surely that is where a good manager comes in, picking out a player that offers good value for money. Will we get someone as good as Nyambe probably not but we can get better than having Elliott Bennett (a winger) filling in there

Edited November 18, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[bluebruce]

EA, there's probably no point discussing it further, as I think where the two camps diverge is that you think Bennett is poor there and we think he is adequate as temporary cover (and from reports from Norwich, so is Reed). No headway will be made on either side of the debate so we might as well agree to disagree.

I would say IF we can find a good, underrated RB in about the 500k range (I say underrated cos they'd likely need to be for that money) maybe with potential or able to function at centre half (as a reasonably 'round' peg), low wages, and potentially happy to sit on the bench for 90% of the season, I'd be more than happy to go for them. We seem to have the budget now to spend about that without compromising our main targets.

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I agree with most of that. We are not very good at creating chances from open play at home. In fact very are very poor. We didn't even create many against Rotherham, instead we wasted countless good opportunities and good positions. We rarely get more than 1 or 2 people in the box so the crosses that go in invariably go to waste. That's why Bennett is not the problem. The system is the problem. However, that system stops us getting hit on the counter at home more often than not. Mowbray has mentioned a few times that not conceding on the break at home is always a consideration. Remember the goal against Forest when they went from one end of the ground to the other in about 8 seconds? He sets up to stop that when he can. 

We are better at home when we can stop quality opposition playing (Leeds, Brentford). We struggle when we have to force the play (Rotherham, Millwall, Reading etc)

Our league position suggests Mowbray is winning the argument though at the moment. If we went for it more we might get undone more. 

 

With Bennett, my attitude when we were in League 1 with him wide was that defensive contribution alone is not enough to justify selection in a wide role, it was the same with Conway. I felt he was really poor in the first half of the season in which he played almost exclusively as a winger if I recall, he had yet to score going into the new year (obviously post Shrewsbury he tended to play elsewhere and was much improved) and had a few assists (similar amount to Derrick Williams) which for a player who is proven at the level above, was below par. I know he has the capability, he got the assist at Hull, the one v Brentford and impressed at Stoke, so he was coupling his obvious work rate/defensive play with something going forward. I also look back to that second half of the season when we went down, he scored I think 4 goals in half a season and was a big part of our attacking play. I know he can contribute considerably to our attacking play even if his selection is often a more conservative one, and I feel its only fair that I point it out when I dont feel he is doing, as he wasnt last season in the first half of the season. Especially when you look at last week, he had I think at least 5 shots which in the main were speculative at best and not the correct decisions. Hes also often culpable for hopeful/hopeless crosses in. Sometimes perhaps his popularity and his undoubted brilliant attitude and character paper over the cracks when hes not doing enough in attack, in my opinion.

It says a lot that our wins have all been by one goal. Whilst I feel that I somewhat empathise with Mowbrays reluctance to stray from what he knows best, we have much more in the way of options compared to last season, in terms of adding technical ability/more forward thinking players in midfield without compromising on organisation too much. Rodwell has a better passing range than Evans and in particular Smallwood, and Reed is also more forward thinking. One of Reed/Rodwell with one of Evans/Smallwood, or even Reed and Rodwell on occasion, is hardly a massive risk. Likewise, in games like Rotherham at home, playing 2 more attacking wide players.

I think Rotherham is a bit of an anomaly, I actually felt that we did create quite a few good chances to justify the less conservative selection, unlike against both Millwall and Reading where we didnt deserve anything more than a point. I recall in terms of good chances created, the goal obviously, Bell being put through on goal, Grahams header from Bennetts excellent cross (!) and Grahams chance from Dacks lay off the most obvious.

Also, worth noting that the counter attack v Forest was with Smallwood and Evans central and Reed and Bennett wide!

Our league position suggests Mowbray is winning the argument though at the moment. If we went for it more we might get undone more.  - Theres an element of truth to that statement, but its a questionable "might." Don't get me wrong, Mowbrays obviously getting so much right, but I think that he could look at being slightly braver in SOME games, especially at home, and he can do that without going gung ho. Theres obviously a balance to get, but in terms of the smaller teams at home, and our goals tally from open play, hes not getting that quite right at the moment. 

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

no chance can we afford any of them. I wouldn't be bringing any SPL players either. Don't believe their standard is good enough for mid table Championship football

 

I think we will sign Bauer in January if he is allow to leave Charlton. 

Gestede and Wood wages are far too much for us as the article says above there is wage cap in place and make sure we don't over spend on wages like we did when we sign Best, Etuhu, Murphy and Rhodes, Gomes

we don't need 3 or 4 players in. 

Bennett has done fine at Right back even tho I prefer Nyambe there. 

Brereton last 2 performances up front has show Mowbray he is a striker now

1.) How do you know what we have to spend? 

2.) That McGinn has been one of the best players in the Championship so far this season - I know the overall standard up there is poor but there are still some good players.

3.) How? He has not played as a striker yet

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

EA, there's probably no point discussing it further, as I think where the two camps diverge is that you think Bennett is poor there and we think he is adequate as temporary cover (and from reports from Norwich, so is Reed). No headway will be made on either side of the debate so we might as well agree to disagree.

I would say IF we can find a good, underrated RB in about the 500k range (I say underrated cos they'd likely need to be for that money) maybe with potential or able to function at centre half (as a reasonably 'round' peg), low wages, and potentially happy to sit on the bench for 90% of the season, I'd be more than happy to go for them. We seem to have the budget now to spend about that without compromising our main targets.

Even if you think Bennett/Reed are capable there, would it not bother you to potentially be without either in midfield for a significant period of time should Nyambe get injured again?

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

EA, there's probably no point discussing it further, as I think where the two camps diverge is that you think Bennett is poor there and we think he is adequate as temporary cover (and from reports from Norwich, so is Reed). No headway will be made on either side of the debate so we might as well agree to disagree.



The question is how long do you class as temporary? You could get away with playing him there for a few games as cover but say Nyambe gets a bad long term injury surely you need more than adequate cover for 10 to 20+ games. As for playing Reed there why would you want someone of his ability in central midfield to be shunted back there out of position. 

I'll put this to you that I put to Chaddy earlier (but he failed to answer). There is a common theme in all 3 games that we have lost Bennett has started 2 of them at right back and in the other one he played the majority of the second half there. Coincidence? 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[JacknOry]

CB, CF, LB, RB in that order of importance in my opinion.

Unless of course Dack goes, his replacement will be needed. Palmer might be able to fill in their for the rest of the season though.

[K-Hod]

No more square pegs, round pegs please.

’He can do a job there’ ?.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

A bit of a pompous comment, yes the SPL in general is pretty poor but if Celtic came into the Championship I suspect they would win it. Rangers would more than hold their own too, and there are players beneath that (McKenna at Aberdeen to name one) who could more than hold their own. You overestimate the quality of the Championship.

I understand what they both do, but they are both playing in the same position. I dont think that being defensively willing is enough to guarantee someone a start in an attacking role, they have to  I don't think any of the players we have played wide this season have contributed enough in an attacking sense, something I have explained in detail above.

I also understand about versatility and its a good skill to have. Especially mid game where you obviously dont have all the players in your squad available when you want to change something up, or if you have a couple of injuries in one position. But I also appreciate that players play best in their natural positions. Square pegs in square holes where possible.

Bennett hasnt been "more than good enough" at right back, in mine and clearly some others opinion. He was really poor in our last 2 defeats, and dives in too often and is prone to being caught out of position. 

The whole point is not about criticising Bennett as a right back or Rodwell and Williams at centre back. They arent naturals in that area, they can fill in for a game but you dont want them there for a prolonged period. The point is, in a transfer window, it surely makes no sense to prioritise signings in other positions when we are short of NATURAL depth in 2 key areas.

It worked against Stoke I acknowledged earlier. But in general I think that I would understand one of them being on one side, but I would like at least one of Armstrong, Palmer and Rothwell in the side, if not two.

Aside from your cliches about Bennett being "the third name on the team sheet" (weve been through how Raya, Lenihan and Nyambe are surely more important based on alternatives in their position but forgetting that for a moment) Bennett should NOT be guaranteed a place. He offers so much to the team, but you cant make such statements regardless of form.

Its my opinion of the SPL after seeing some of the live football this season. Would Celtic or Rangers even have the same squad if they came to the championship so you cant compare at all. 

We have no idea how McKenna would do at bigger club or at a better level of football. Lets see if he got a move in January or whether no one buy him due to cost or whether people don't rate him. I do not overestimate the quality of the championship at all but its yourself with your pompous attitude who under estimate the quality here. 

Both players who have to play wide have defensive duties to do and this is just as much important as the attacking duties. 

You bring up the 2 defeats but not the games we have won or draw in that time he has played well. 

 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Stop being pedantic and winding people up. The point is not that Bennett is necessarily at fault. Its that he is not a right back in the first place, and hes only playing there because we only have 1, who was injured, which will happen at times.

Oli Burke, the player who cost West Brom £15m? Whose being unrealistic again?

no one is being pedantic and winding people up. so stop winding me up with such poor comments. 

I am fully aware of how much Burke cost WBA but I believe its a player the owners would fund Mowbray with if he wanted him due to the cost, potential, anmd already resale value of the play who under Mowbray is likely to improve so much

55 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

It's not Bennett's fault he is just simply not a full back. If Nyambe got a season ending injury tomorrow then Bennett is not in my opinion a viable option to be playing nearly 30 games there you can get away with him filling in for a few games but he's not an answer long term if we are looking to push for top 10. We brought in competition/cover for Williams at left back why not do it right back?

 

West Brom paid £15 million for Burke. He's still only 21 so well out of our price range

I am fully aware of how much Burke cost WBA but I believe its a player the owners would fund Mowbray with if he wanted him due to the cost, potential, anmd already resale value of the play who under Mowbray is likely to improve so much

52 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

My apologies, seems I missed the Bauer one. You hadn't suggested Burke yet, that was a later post I hadn't read yet.

Burke is likely to cost a hell of a lot. More than the others you said we couldn't afford I think. He cost WBA 15 million, and is only 21.

Bauer is someone we will be looking at...though he still has the knee injury from a couple of months ago. I heard he wasn't playing all that well before it (head turned maybe). Charlton wanted 2 mill in the summer and are in the top 6 at the mo. Reckon they will ask for a million still in Jan, but may settle at somewhere around the 750k mark. They did pay 1.5 million for him themselves and have shown they'll be stubborn over his value.

I am fully aware of how much Burke cost WBA but I believe its a player the owners would fund Mowbray with if he wanted him due to the cost, potential, anmd already resale value of the play who under Mowbray is likely to improve so much. 

was Bauer performing badly cos he wanted to leave and was upset over not getting him move to Blackburn Rovers in the summer. 

[JacknOry]

So Burke would be a player the owners would fund TM for but someone like Ez E that was mentioned we could not afford and the owners would not fund TM for?

You really dont help yourself Chaddy. You rubbish off other peoples suggestions saying we cannot afford them and then claim we can sign a 21-year old that was previously bought for 15 million. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by JacknOry

[dingles staying down 4ever]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I really hope that isnt the midfield against Preston, thats incredibly negative. Armstrong surely has to play, and I like to see Palmer on the other side. Not sure Bennett can justify a starting place based on recent form, and Reed should play in his best position, driving the team from there alongside Evans.

He may give Armstrong the nod but no way will Palmer start as well. Reed was poor in the centre even before he got injured the last game so I think Smallwood will play as he is trusted by Mowbray. 

 

[DE.]

A better summer window would have seen us nestled in a playoff spot right now, imo. If we make the January window count then this season could really take off in the last few months. If our recruitment drive is well underway already then I assume we won't be panic bidding on the last day of the window again.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

He may give Armstrong the nod but no way will Palmer start as well. Reed was poor in the centre even before he got injured the last game so I think Smallwood will play as he is trusted by Mowbray. 

No I dont think he will play Palmer (or Rothwell) but I personally would to look to exploit a very poor defence that has conceded a lot of goals this season.

I suspect that Mowbray will have a decision to make though, in that I suspect that there are 6 in his mind to choose 5 from. Evans, Smallwood, Bennett, Reed, Dack and Armstrong. With Bennett now not needed at right back and Evans back from suspension, he has a decision on his hands. Dack is obviously a given. I would personally have Smallwood as the odd man out if it is from them 6, but if I had to guess, Reed will be given an extra few days to recover from his knock. Armstrong has to start after his performance v Rotherham.

I would personally have Palmer, Rodwell and even Rothwell amidst that selection conundrum as well but I suspect all 3 of them will be subs.

[Fraserkirky]

Patrick Bauer CB - Need cover back there.

Lucas Joao ST - Sitting on the Bench again for Sheff Wed, think he is a the exact type of player to lead the line, quality in air and has the skill to link with Dack.

Dont sell anyone.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Fraserkirky said:

Patrick Bauer CB - Need cover back there.

Lucas Joao ST - Sitting on the Bench again for Sheff Wed, think he is a the exact type of player to lead the line, quality in air and has the skill to link with Dack.

Dont sell anyone.

Good shouts, I liked what I saw of Joao. I do remember that Mowbray had an issue with him and Emnes time keeping though.. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No I dont think he will play Palmer (or Rothwell) but I personally would to look to exploit a very poor defence that has conceded a lot of goals this season.

I suspect that Mowbray will have a decision to make though, in that I suspect that there are 6 in his mind to choose 5 from. Evans, Smallwood, Bennett, Reed, Dack and Armstrong. With Bennett now not needed at right back and Evans back from suspension, he has a decision on his hands. Dack is obviously a given. I would personally have Smallwood as the odd man out if it is from them 6, but if I had to guess, Reed will be given an extra few days to recover from his knock. Armstrong has to start after his performance v Rotherham.

I would personally have Palmer, Rodwell and even Rothwell amidst that selection conundrum as well but I suspect all 3 of them will be subs.

It will be smallwood and Evans in the middle with Armstrong, Dack and Bennett in front of them. 

Although now that I think of it, will he really leave Reed out? Mmm, he does have a selection dilemma alright. 

Palmer, Rothwell and Rodwell will all be pushing hard to start too. 

We have options 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[47er]

He surely can't leave Reed out?He's currently our best player. I would be disappointed if TM chose a defensive side against a struggling Preston.

Palmer,Rothwell and Rodwell are 3 of our most constructive players and should all feature.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, 47er said:

I would be disappointed if TM chose a defensive side against a struggling Preston.

They aren't struggling. Unbeaten in 8 and scored 4 in each of their last two home games. 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, JacknOry said:

So Burke would be a player the owners would fund TM for but someone like Ez E that was mentioned we could not afford and the owners would not fund TM for?

You really dont help yourself Chaddy. You rubbish off other peoples suggestions saying we cannot afford them and then claim we can sign a 21-year old that was previously bought for 15 million. 

Qpr wont sell him either. Look at what happen when Freeman was going to be sold McClaren was going to resign over it. 

Whilst Burke isnt playing and quite possible that WBA could cut their losses and sell for around 10mil including on loan. Plus Burke could want out aswell.

[bluebruce]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Qpr wont sell him either. Look at what happen when Freeman was going to be sold McClaren was going to resign over it. 

Whilst Burke isnt playing and quite possible that WBA could cut their losses and sell for around 10mil including on loan. Plus Burke could want out aswell.

That's a lot of money for someone who doesn't seem to be a Mowbray type of player.

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Qpr wont sell him either. Look at what happen when Freeman was going to be sold McClaren was going to resign over it. 

Whilst Burke isnt playing and quite possible that WBA could cut their losses and sell for around 10mil including on loan. Plus Burke could want out aswell.

Forestieri would be a cracking replacement if the worst came to the worst. Wednesday will be having a fire sale and he’ll be fantastic value for someone at 5-10 mil

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, bluebruce said:

That's a lot of money for someone who doesn't seem to be a Mowbray type of player.

True but I given my suggestion for that position. Think Mowbray will target Freeman again possibly