JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[Oldgregg86]

How much and realistic would the big lad barkhuizen (duno how u spell it) be as a possible signing for us. He's always played well when I've seen him

I thought he was taller than 5 ft 9 but he seems strong and could hold the ball up

Edited November 25, 2018 by Oldgregg86

[north_ender]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

How much and realistic would the big lad barkhuizen (duno how u spell it) be as a possible signing for us. He's always played well when I've seen him

It would cost a lot and I doubt they'd want to sell to a local team unless he ran his contract down or something.

He's another one who divides opinion. He lacks technical ability but runs all game for the team, great defensively for a winger, his pace gets us up the pitch and he chips in with important goals.

Like Browne, Neil absolutely loves him. He was probably going to be rotated a bit more this season but Bodin did his ACL the week before the season started.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

How much and realistic would the big lad barkhuizen (duno how u spell it) be as a possible signing for us. He's always played well when I've seen him

I thought he was taller than 5 ft 9 but he seems strong and could hold the ball up

agreed

[Sparks Rover]

Aberdeen have a good winger...Mackay - Steven....I've seen him a bit and he looks worth a punt

[bluebruce]

13 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

I'm seeing an increasing number of murmurings about paying £7m for Brereton. I pointed out in summer that paying for him in hindsight was not the best of ideas, but it got laughed off. I'm hurt.

If you mean that we should have bought him for 7 million right away, rather than in January, you're still wrong and your logic doesn't hold up any better now than it did then (if it was you making that suggestion then and now, and I'm not getting mixed up).

In either case we would be left with the player for 7 million, for better or worse, with no way out of it. Absolutely the same outcome. If the deal isn't one we are happy with, it will be lamented equally either way. Anyone who thinks any different is kidding themselves.

[Fraserkirky]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Aberdeen have a good winger...Mackay - Steven....I've seen him a bit and he looks worth a punt

Not better than Chapman for me. He plays well 1 out of 4 games, brothers a Aberdeen fan. Avoid

[47er]

7 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Not better than Chapman for me. He plays well 1 out of 4 games, brothers a Aberdeen fan. Avoid

Ages ago I asked your opinion about Demi Mitchell, playing with Hearts on loan from Manu. Any thoughts?

Presumably on one season loan anyway but what about him for a future bid?

[blueboy3333]

I'm hoping we can spend another £10m on 'potential' in January and then sit them on the bench/play them out of position.

We are Man City and we can do that. Hence the new forum design. 

[JBiz]

25 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'm hoping we can spend another £10m on 'potential' in January and then sit them on the bench/play them out of position.

We are Man City and we can do that. Hence the new forum design. 

10m? Who have we spent ten million on and sat on the bench?

[JHRover]

Lets get real. No other club in this league, not even those awash with Premier League parachute cash, would go out and spend £7 million on potential or a 'long term project'. Plenty would spend it on a promising kid but would then find space in their side for that kid.

The way things are going we could get to the end of the season and finish 5 or 6 points off the play-offs, a gap that could easily have been closed had we spent £7 million on a couple of proven players.

No club in this league can afford to spend millions on a single player if that player isn't deemed up to it or capable of playing from the word go.

It's a bonkers strategy but then again we have bonkers owners, it's only those with short memories or delusion who seem to think they've suddenly become sensible or normal. Clubs like PNE, Wigan and Bolton would love to have £7 million sloshing around for spending on new players. The only plus side to Venkys is that they enable us to spend that sort of cash from time to time when many others cannot, but the drawback seems to be it has to fit some bonkers set of long term development criteria rather than being spent on players who are going to immediately strengthen our squad. Meanwhile elsewhere we've relied on loans and frees. Very strange.

[JBiz]

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Lets get real. No other club in this league, not even those awash with Premier League parachute cash, would go out and spend £7 million on potential or a 'long term project'. Plenty would spend it on a promising kid but would then find space in their side for that kid.

The way things are going we could get to the end of the season and finish 5 or 6 points off the play-offs, a gap that could easily have been closed had we spent £7 million on a couple of proven players.

No club in this league can afford to spend millions on a single player if that player isn't deemed up to it or capable of playing from the word go.

It's a bonkers strategy but then again we have bonkers owners, it's only those with short memories or delusion who seem to think they've suddenly become sensible or normal. Clubs like PNE, Wigan and Bolton would love to have £7 million sloshing around for spending on new players. The only plus side to Venkys is that they enable us to spend that sort of cash from time to time when many others cannot, but the drawback seems to be it has to fit some bonkers set of long term development criteria rather than being spent on players who are going to immediately strengthen our squad. Meanwhile elsewhere we've relied on loans and frees. Very strange.

How come you believe we haven’t spent anywhere near 7m upfront on B.B. but then use that as an argument for the club being calamitously run?

Football is broken JHR and whilst we both agree the “7m” could’ve been moved around the team, we’ve probably spent more than that sacking managers under the Raos thus the concernin reaction to actually “investing” in a player is baffling.

[47er]

It is really strange because we all know that the only way to get the big pay-off is to be promoted to the Premier League, so every transfer should be done with that in mind---logically.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

How come you believe we haven’t spent anywhere near 7m upfront on B.B. but then use that as an argument for the club being calamitously run?

Football is broken JHR and whilst we both agree the “7m” could’ve been moved around the team, we’ve probably spent more than that sacking managers under the Raos thus the concernin reaction to actually “investing” in a player is baffling.

Even if it was only £3.5 million with add-ons down the line, which I think is nearer the mark than the £7 million quoted repeatedly, it is still too much for a 'project'. Why are we having a 'project'?

Nowt wrong with signing younger players who are likely to increase in value. Sheffield Wednesday are knackered because they spent fortunes on older players many of whom had no resale value, but when the player in question is so far off being ready that the manager even 4 months after he signed isn't prepared to start him in games or even give him more than 20 minute cameo appearances then I really do wonder what the purpose was. £3.5 million on a proven CF and proven CB could have been what we needed to get into the play-offs this season. Instead we're rolling up at our relegation threatened local rivals without a CF on the pitch because Danny Graham, as expected, isn't fit enough to play every game. Ludicrous.

[JBiz]

Just now, JHRover said:

Even if it was only £3.5 million with add-ons down the line, which I think is nearer the mark than the £7 million quoted repeatedly, it is still too much for a 'project'. Why are we having a 'project'?

Nowt wrong with signing younger players who are likely to increase in value. Sheffield Wednesday are knackered because they spent fortunes on older players many of whom had no resale value, but when the player in question is so far off being ready that the manager even 4 months after he signed isn't prepared to start him in games or even give him more than 20 minute cameo appearances then I really do wonder what the purpose was. £3.5 million on a proven CF and proven CB could have been what we needed to get into the play-offs this season. Instead we're rolling up at our relegation threatened local rivals without a CF on the pitch because Danny Graham, as expected, isn't fit enough to play every game. Ludicrous.

Why are we signing a “project”? Perhaps the answer in that lies with the wage and cost of proven “second tier” strikers like Bamford and Assombolonga! 3.5m upfront is peanuts, practically one season of wages for a “squad level” premier league player.

Equally what do we expect 3.5m to get us? Would we sell Lenihan and Nyambe for that? I personally think both would be costing a minimum of double that yet you think we’d be adding a Graham esq striker and an improvement on Darragh and Charlie for the same cost... it’s not realistic JHR from my perspective.

 

[perthblue02]

Can't understand the reluctance to play Brereton , strange that his upper body strength was ok last season to participate in 30 odd of Notts Forests League games in a league we are currently in. Of that I make it he played the full 90 minutes in 12 games, and a further 10 taking part in 60 minutes +.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/ben-brereton/leistungsdaten/spieler/426192/plus/0?saison=2017

Stats for second half of 2016/17 season, of Championship games available for, took part in 18 out of 22

https://www.transfermarkt.com/ben-brereton/leistungsdaten/spieler/426192/plus/0?saison=2016

I do wonder in the rush to get the deal over the line , if the loan part of it  could be heavily weighted in favour of Notts Forest financially

Edited November 26, 2018 by perthblue02

[Ewood Ace]

16 minutes ago, Biz said:

Why are we signing a “project”? Perhaps the answer in that lies with the wage and cost of proven “second tier” strikers like Bamford and Assombolonga! 3.5m upfront is peanuts, practically one season of wages for a “squad level” premier league player.

Equally what do we expect 3.5m to get us? Would we sell Lenihan and Nyambe for that? I personally think both would be costing a minimum of double that yet you think we’d be adding a Graham esq striker and an improvement on Darragh and Charlie for the same cost... it’s not realistic JHR from my perspective.

 

You sign a project cheap and hope to work on their potential for a club in our position to spend £7 Million (one of the most expensive signings in the club's history) you expect the player to be more than a sub to throw on (out of position) when you need a goal. If you had said to me that we would buy a player for £7 million and by December he would not have started a game then I would not have believed you. I would imagine that no other club in the Championship has spent £5 million+ on a player who is yet to start a game (unless injured).

Forest must be laughing at us we are paying £7 Million for Brereton and for £1 million less they got Grabban a prove goal scorer at this level who is already the second highest goal scorer in the league this season. There is plenty of value out there you just have to look for it and that may involve looking in abroad or in the lower leagues. For example Pukki cost Norwich nothing, Maupay last year cost Brenford £1.5 Million, Marriott cost Derby around £3.5 Million.

[Neal]

Best cheapo option is Brett Pitman IMV. Marquis I think is worth a shot at the right price. Don't see either as a Mowbray type signing though. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Neal

[Ewood Ace]

12 minutes ago, Neal said:

Best cheapo option is Brett Pitman IMV. Marquis I think is worth a shot at the right price. 

A couple of years ago Pitman would have been ok but this year he has been starting on the Portsmouth bench the majority of the time. If we are going into League 1 for a striker then I would go for Liam Boyce at Burton and I reckon that we would get him for a maximum of £2 Million.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ewood Ace

[Neal]

11 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

A couple of years ago Pitman would have been ok but this year he has been starting on the Portsmouth bench the majority of the time. If we are going into League 1 for a striker then I would go for Liam Boyce at Burton and I reckon that we would get him for a maximum of £2 Million.

Don't know what's gone on but he's surplus to requirements for some reason... Despite scoring 24 goals last season. Guy is a natural finisher and 3 years younger than DG. like I said, doesn't strike me as a Mowbray type signing anyway. 

[Mercer]

5 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

You sign a project cheap and hope to work on their potential for a club in our position to spend £7 Million (one of the most expensive signings in the club's history) you expect the player to be more than a sub to throw on (out of position) when you need a goal. If you had said to me that we would buy a player for £7 million and by December he would not have started a game then I would not have believed you. I would imagine that no other club in the Championship has spent £5 million+ on a player who is yet to start a game (unless injured).

Forest must be laughing at us we are paying £7 Million for Brereton and for £1 million less they got Grabban a prove goal scorer at this level who is already the second highest goal scorer in the league this season. There is plenty of value out there you just have to look for it and that may involve looking in abroad or in the lower leagues. For example Pukki cost Norwich nothing, Maupay last year cost Brenford £1.5 Million, Marriott cost Derby around £3.5 Million.

Good post.

There are options out there but I question our abilities to recruit well.

To me, Dack is Mowbray's one and only real success.  The rest are Joe Averages or the likes of Hart and Gladwin. 

Not one of Mowbray's signings this pre season / season has been a regular starter so far - that says it all.  So on that basis, Mowbray has not improved the team as his signings can't be any better than what we already have. 

I don't buy any of this 'trust Tony' business - to me, he's tactically all over the place, doesn't get the best out of what he's already got (square pegs / round holes) and his recruitment is very average.

The fact is our best three permanent signings over recent times have been Dack and Coyle's two (Mulgrew and Graham).

Edited November 26, 2018 by K-Hod

[Fraserkirky]

5 hours ago, 47er said:

Ages ago I asked your opinion about Demi Mitchell, playing with Hearts on loan from Manu. Any thoughts?

Presumably on one season loan anyway but what about him for a future bid?

Sorry pal, I' m a big Hibs fans so take what I say on him with a pinch of salt. 

Might be a bit better than Bell but much the same type of player. A left Back that has little interest in defending. 

[imy9]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Good post.

There are options out there but I question our abilities to recruit well.

To me, Dack is Mowbray's one and only real success.  The rest are Joe Averages or the likes of Hart and Gladwin. 

Not one of Mowbray's signings this pre season / season has been a regular starter so far - that says it all.  So on that basis, Mowbray has not improved the team as his signings can't be any better than what we already have. 

I don't buy any of this 'trust Tony' business - to me, he's tactically all over the place, doesn't get the best out of what he's already got (square pegs / round holes) and his recruitment is very average.

The fact is our best three permanent signings over recent times have been Dack and Coyle's two (Mulgrew and Graham).

Isn't it a key part of management to make your existing players better ones?

Raya, Nyambe, Williams, Evans, Bennett and Lenihan have all been better for us under Tony.

Edited November 26, 2018 by K-Hod

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 15:05, chaddyrovers said:

Henderson is 33 years old. 

So is Danny Graham but Henderson plays 90 minutes every week and has had a pretty injury free career. Scored another one on Saturday. He can play the hold up role and score goals.  He's got a mean streak as well so centre halves know to tread softly when they're marking him. He'd be good to bring on after 60mins, at least you could throw him up front and not have to protect him out on the wing.

Mm'  Grabban or Brereton. Who  got the best deal there I wonder.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JBiz]

3 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

You sign a project cheap and hope to work on their potential for a club in our position to spend £7 Million (one of the most expensive signings in the club's history) you expect the player to be more than a sub to throw on (out of position) when you need a goal. If you had said to me that we would buy a player for £7 million and by December he would not have started a game then I would not have believed you. I would imagine that no other club in the Championship has spent £5 million+ on a player who is yet to start a game (unless injured).

Forest must be laughing at us we are paying £7 Million for Brereton and for £1 million less they got Grabban a prove goal scorer at this level who is already the second highest goal scorer in the league this season. There is plenty of value out there you just have to look for it and that may involve looking in abroad or in the lower leagues. For example Pukki cost Norwich nothing, Maupay last year cost Brenford £1.5 Million, Marriott cost Derby around £3.5 Million.

See I’d agree with lots of that if I believed;

1. We had a decent budget and spent it all on Brererton

2. Brererton’s fee is 7m upfront and in total not including wages/add ons.

But since I don’t think like that, it’s hard for me to see Brererton as anything but a 19 prospect (who incidentally has improved every cameo so far)

An exciting potential. I hope we turn around in January and add more 18/19 year olds to the group because that’s building a squad long term. Not adding “cheap” on the hope that they turn out good.

Grabban is probably paid twice what our best earner is too. They’ve gone for those well known, proven lads because they’re gambling to go up. Fair enough if it works, but any rovers fan who has even an tiny remaining portion of memory should know what happens to teams that gamble on older “proven” players, Big wages, big fees etc, but fail to go up quickly...

I am excited by our recent trajectory, and long term transfer business is a big part of that.

[JHRover]

Whatever Brereton cost it was too much if he isn't deemed able to start a game in the Championship. Whatever the reasons, whatever the logic behind it, nobody at this level could or should be paying multi-millions on any player who after 4 months still isn't ready to play.

He's had no injury issues as far as I am aware, it's not as though he's arrived from South America and has taken weeks to adjust to the climate or English football. He's a lad who at the young age of 19 has significant experience at Forest and has moved a couple of hours up the road.

All this could perhaps be overlooked if he was 3rd or 4th choice behind Graham, Samuel, Armstrong who were fit and firing every week, yet Samuel has been out all season (which we knew a long time ago was happening), Armstrong is being used out wide and Graham is unable to play every game. So despite all that we're turning up at PNE without a striker whilst the long term project is sat on his backside until 70 minutes as usual.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by JHRover