JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Ok, so my opinion is that I’d love to see more of Brereton. The club are very excited about him and I value the opinions of the people I know who rate him. (I haven’t been able to make my own judgement because he hasn’t played much)

I can therefore empathise with people wanting to see more of him. But I stop short of making myself beleive there is only one possible, cynical reason for it.

As Iv said before, I would have bought another mainline striker in the summer as well as BB. I look at every success story in there and the teams always have several different goal scoring options. I genuinely believe we would’ve been 5/6pts better off had we done so. I suppose they thought they’d have Samuel who has Championship experience but still. They should’ve addressed that imo. So yes 100% a striker would be my priority.

I want to see BB play up front and I’d pick him if Graham were injured. 

As I said though, that cynical viewpoint of there being financial reasons behind Breretons lack of starts is very much held by only a minority. I personally dont buy that at all but can understand that such a theory isnt totally unfounded under these owners.

You make a very valid point about needing numerous goalscorers. Thats why I keep going back to this summers recruitment. I think theres a number of reasons and circumstances as to why, but based on their lack of goal contributions thus far, I fail to see how anyone can justify their signings so far as a success. The 4 attacking players have 2 league goals between them.

Do I think that they are poor players? No. Have I written any of them off? No. They arent yet poor signings, but they have yet to prove themselves to be good signings, and we are basing any judgements on what they achieved so far, at this point in time, mindful that we dont know for sure what could or could not happen in the future.

I look at Palmer for example, proven as a number 10 capable of contributing towards promotion. Our best player plays there, thus Palmer has been in and out playing wide. Same with Rothwell. Brereton has yet to start and keeps being shunted wide. Armstrong I have doubts he is capable of stepping up (terrific loan signing last season so hats off for that) but even he would argue that he wants to play down the middle. 

I agree on having Brereton as a central striker when Graham is unavailable.

23 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ahhhh so what’s your point? That Coyle’s recruitment is the reason for our success? Maybe Lamberts? Or that one game (Saturdays) is accountable for the managers whole tenure.

Dack, Armstrong, Smallwood, Antonsson, Samuel, Caddis and Bell all played a role in last years promotion. The first three on that list were arguably pivotal. 

This season, Armstrong, Brereton, Reed, Rothwell and Palmer have all scored or assisted thus showing a direct impact on the team performance. Whilst I personally think Rodwell has also made a decent enough start.

I don’t get how narrow minded this argument is. It’s really simple, we don’t get promoted last season without the players mentioned above. And we don’t make the start we have this season without the impact of the others Iv mentioned. We know this because they’ve directly effected our matches in terms of goals and assists.

Just because some of them signed this season aren’t regulars doesn’t mean they’re bad signings. He’s openly said he expects the likes of Rothwell, Brereton and Davenport are signings that will benefit us over a long period.

In all of his reign I can only think of Whittingham who came with a rep, likely on decent money and failed. We’ve never had any bad apples brought in either. No rumblings in the dressing room...

AND in the middle of all this we currently have (arguably) the best player in Championship on our books who was signed for £750k and will likely go for £20-25m in the summer. That’d be enough for most fans. Obvs not ours! ???

 

I dont understand why your natural instinct is to take the very valid point that very few Mowbray signings are first team regulars as a sole argument of poor management.

Mulgrews an example. A terrific signing but often played in midfield under Coyle, in a very disorganised team. Now he seems fitter than ever, happier and thriving as captain. 

I think you could argue that Mowbrays management here has been built on man management and the ability to get the most out of the players he inherited, even more so than a hit and miss transfer recruitment.

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

You only see it as narrow minded because it differs to your opinion. What I have said is correct. Of course some of Mowbrays signings have played a part but predominantly the nucleus of what seems his preferred starting eleven weren't signed by him. And whilst you mention the contribution of Whittingham and Caddis I can't recall anything positive from them. And their 'contribution' probably cost us at least £1.5m.

I wasn't talking about the future by the way and possible potential, I was talking about now and none of the players you mention (Reed and Dack aside) can be remotely considered as regulars.

Your 'obvs not our' quote is way off the mark. Mowbray has been hit and (mainly) miss in the transfer market so far. It happens to lots of managers. That said I am happy where we are and with results overall but that isn't clouding my judgement when it comes to our dealings over Mowbrays tenure.

My point still stands. The success of the team over the past 18 months has been effected positively by Mowbrays signings. All of the players I have mentioned have contributed and that’s a fact. No one is saying that they’ve been perfect but the ‘mainly miss’ point is ridiculous imo.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

My point still stands. The success of the team over the past 18 months has been effected positively by Mowbrays signings. All of the players I have mentioned have contributed and that’s a fact. No one is saying that they’ve been perfect but the ‘mainly miss’ point is ridiculous imo.

I don't disagree with the opinion that some of his signings haven't played a part what but what I think is indisputable is that more duds have been signed than good 'uns. If we are to push on we have to improve the starting eleven with players ready to hit the ground running and that is an area where Mowbray hasn't been great in my opinion.

[Paul Mani]

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on Mowbrays transfer dealings. You have valid points but in the main I disagree with most of them. I’ve explained exactly why I think he’s been great in the transfer market so far (sales and purchases in the context of success). Iv even accepted what I believe to be his failings but to say he’s failed there is beyond me.

I’m not going to change your minds and neither are you going to change mine. 

?

[MCMC1875]

48 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I think TM is about the most honest manager we’ve ever had. I don’t know why he’s not playing him but he’s said enough about the situation to prevent me from thinking there’s some cynical sub plot. 

From what I hear BB played a lot of games early on at forest due to injuries? Maybe if we’d had multiple, long term injuries in this area we would have played him more? 

You won't find a more honest manager than Bobby Saxton.

Edited December 11, 2018 by MCMC1875

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on Mowbrays transfer dealings. You have valid points but in the main I disagree with most of them. I’ve explained exactly why I think he’s been great in the transfer market so far (sales and purchases in the context of success). Iv even accepted what I believe to be his failings but to say he’s failed there is beyond me.

I’m not going to change your minds and neither are you going to change mine. 

?

An impasse ?.

I genuinely believe he has a one in three ratio on good/excellent signings to poor ones but two good windows could change that markedly. And hopefully that's one thing we can all agree on ?.

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

An impasse ?.

I genuinely believe he has a one in three ratio on good/excellent signings to poor ones but two good windows could change that markedly. And hopefully that's one thing we can all agree on ?.

Absolutely!! For what it’s worth, with Venkys giving him public backing and access to cash I do believe we should be looking at adding quality that is ready to hit the ground running.

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Jones was a curious case. I watched him bully a peak Drogba at Ewood Park aged 18. There was nothing gonna stop that lad from being the best CB on the planet. Injuries and possibly too much too soon killed him. Had a good career but definitely underachieved.

Intersting points you make about Lowe and Hanley being thrust in too soon. I also think Hoilett was trusted too soon. That guy had some skills. Has never really hit the heights. 

Dunn and Duff were definitely introduced slowly. The other thing about them was that it wasn’t until 2 or so years had passed that they were then expected to change games. Perhaps because we had lots of good players back then.

Maybe the biggest issue with throwing young players in is their mental strength in dealing with the expectation? Maybe that’s the reason he’s taking things slowly with BB. His interviews suggest it...though I don’t know the answer.

Definitely think Jones would have benefited from another season or two playing regularly at Rovers under Allardyce but like Hanley he had man strength when still a youngster so they tend to get away with it at first.

Duff and Dunn eased in as you say as were Gally and Derbyshire although I reckon these lads got some time in cup games possibly ?

Difference was obviously in most cases they were home grown and we were usually at a higher level or with a better squad than now so no real need to rush them.  Be interesting if there is separate money available now for more Brereton type transfers that might not be available for instant first teamers.  I suppose higher placed clubs do this kind of thing but it's new turf for Rovers and probably championship level in general.

Edited December 11, 2018 by tomphil

[JHRover]

Don't think anyone would argue (Dack aside) that Mowbray has done a better job with those players already here than he has at bringing new ones in and integrating them.

He has done very well indeed at getting more out of existing players like Bennett, Evans, Graham, Mulgrew and Lenihan than his predecessor(s). This can even be extended to general fitness as all appear to be fitter and more dependable than they were previously. E.g. I believe the run of games we've had out of Graham and Mulgrew has been nothing short of miraculous given their backgrounds and Evans is having a new lease of life and probably his most consistent run since he joined the club more than 5 years ago.

Indeed Mowbray has also done very well at developing and progressing a few of the prospects at the club - specifically Raya and Nyambe who have progressed into mainstays of the first XI having been far from that before he arrived.

But in terms of recruitment purely from a numbers point of view the judgment has to be at this stage mixed. Clearly the Dack factor skews the graph massively as the returns on him will offset everything else, and obviously the results are the ultimate measure of a manager and nobody will really care if every player signed is a failure as long as the results continue to be good. St Dyche at Burnley has dropped some real clangers in the transfer market for far more money than Mowbray has had yet people still think the sun shines from his backside as he manages to eek out results with what he has.

[Oldgregg86]

Macaully bonne. 

Plays for leyton orient, 23, top scorer in the national league. Scored 8 in his last 9 games. Tall, quick, good in the air and can use both feet.

Being linked to a host of premier league clubs as the next vardy from non league. 

Never seen him play just what I've heard but must be worth a look and fits into the venky model

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re just embarrassing yourself mate. We’ve had to sit and listen to you drone on and on about why it’s been so crap. I offer my opinion and provide reasoning for why I believe it and you answer “nonsense”...so who is stifling the messageboard here? 

You've offered no reasoning beyond 'the signings are ace because we're overachieving'. Saying the signings are 9 out of 10 without backing it up is nonsense. 

Whether we are actually overachieving is debateable considering the team is full of players who have played at Championship level before. Also, if we are 'overachieving' it is without the majority of Mogga's transfers being in the team. Hoisted by your own petard I'm afraid  ??

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

You've offered no reasoning beyond 'the signings are ace because we're overachieving'. Saying the signings are 9 out of 10 without backing it up is nonsense. 

Whether we are actually overachieving is debateable considering the team is full of players who have played at Championship level before. Also, if we are 'overachieving' it is without the majority of Mogga's transfers being in the team. Hoisted by your own petard I'm afraid  ??

Don’t know why I’m even arguing with you. Whatever you think mate, all the best ??

[Bbrovers2288]

I would like to see us make a move for Ivan Toney, looks like a player that could have an impact for us 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Don’t know why I’m even arguing with you. Whatever you think mate, all the best ??

I thought we were having a discussion? It's a shame you can't keep your end up old chap??

[blueboy3333]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3609903/hibs-mark-sykes-glenavon/

Linked with Glenavon midfielder Mark Sykes, or FFS(ykes) as he will be known by the Riverside. I'm here all week...

I remember his current manager banging them in down at Brockhall for our youth teams in the late 90's. 

 

[DeeCee]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3609903/hibs-mark-sykes-glenavon/

Linked with Glenavon midfielder Mark Sykes, or FFS(ykes) as he will be known by the Riverside. I'm here all week...

I remember his current manager banging them in down at Brockhall for our youth teams in the late 90's. 

 

Another midfielder! He says he wants to go straight into the first team and not be in the youth team for a year before getting near the squad. Perfect fit, good luck with that.

Edited December 12, 2018 by DeeCee

[Darwen Rover 007]

Where is Gestede these days? I would take him over Gallagher 

[K-Hod]

28 minutes ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Where is Gestede these days? I would take him over Gallagher 

Getting splinters in his backside on the regs at 'Boro. Strange really, as you'd think he'd be the stuff of Pulis' wet dreams.....

[philipl]

29 minutes ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Where is Gestede these days? I would take him over Gallagher 

Injured at Boro.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Where is Gestede these days? I would take him over Gallagher 

Injured and wages beyond us IMO

[tomphil]

Love Rudy but he'd make a very expensive substitute given that he's hardly ever fit to start many matches in a row but those last twenty mins in games he could make a hell of a difference.

Come to think of it we already have an expensive substitute !

[Pedro]

Like many, Gestede had his best years at Ewood.  He isn't the answer to what we need. 

[Scotland1]

ROVERS INTERESTED In Tom Eaves of Gillingham. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11737/11577121/rangers-tracking-gillingham-striker-tom-eaves-ahead-of-january-window

[jim mk2]

2 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

ROVERS INTERESTED In Tom Eaves of Gillingham. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11737/11577121/rangers-tracking-gillingham-striker-tom-eaves-ahead-of-january-window

 Old story. Lower league journeyman but shouldn't cost £7m

[Sparks Rover]

33 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

ROVERS INTERESTED In Tom Eaves of Gillingham. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11737/11577121/rangers-tracking-gillingham-striker-tom-eaves-ahead-of-january-window

Saw him a lot when he was in the Notlob U23s down Leyland few years back.  Average technical ability and not blessed with pace I think you need in the top two leagues