JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[arbitro]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Depends whether we invest in slightly older players. Gallagher and Reed are both 23.  Luke Freeman at QPR is 26, Bauer at Charlton 26.  This age range is the type of player we need to target.  More ready for the first team and experience/developed enough to compete immediately - ye still have sell on value.  Signing lads under 20 is ok for the future but the likes of Brereton, Armstrong, Davenport etc aren't quite there yet.  

Over the next couple of windows we need to add around 5 first team championship players who can go straight in.  Picking up the odd young. Kid (like Chapman) along the way.  

The younger lads should be loaned out (I'd definitely be sending Brereton to league one to toughen up a bit and develop).  

My point was (using Dack as the example) successful players at a club like ours usually aren't here for three windows and then the cycle has to start again. I think it's folly to put any timescales on anything in football given that amount of variables. It brings an unnecessary pressure on the manager.

[Guest]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I was referring to promotion the following season not this one.   Given that he said around 4 windows to develop.  Last summer was one, this is 2.  End of this season 3 and next Jan 4.  After that you expect that the owners would want to see a top 6 team based on TM's plan. 

 

I fear the issue is that TM has a Group of players that he really likes and fit in with his work ethic etc.  The problem is that some are clearly not good enough to go on 'the journey' with us but I'm not convinced he is ruthless enough to get rid.

Agreed, Williams, Smallwood, Downing, Nyambe to an extent, Samuel, Gladwin and Conway could all do with being upgraded with first team challengers. 

Aware everyone needs squad players but out of that list there's only Nyambe and Conway i'd say are good enough even for a quad role of a top 6 club.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Maja is there to be got. He's refused to sign a new contract 

He's got premier league interest and with him refusing to sign a new contract he's expected to leave for a fee of around 8 million according to sky sports .

Edited January 7, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

 

Along with Nyambe, Raya and Lenihan we'd be expecting around £10million for, not bad for 3 academy products.

Also, as much of a useless manager he was, Coyle getting us Mulgrew for free was a master stroke.

You would be looking at more than £15 million I reckon. Nyambe 5-6 million, Lenihan 4-5million, Raya 7 million. 

Masterstroke and Coyle. Now there are two words you don't see in a sentence together too often  

[philipl]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Both spoke about a three or may have been four window plan at the last consultation meeting when Mowbray in particular talked about gradually rebuilding the team that had won promotion.  He talked about being fair to those players and giving them the chance to prove they could cope at a higher level and improve their game but if not they would be gradually replaced.  

Clearly the owners have bought into this long term strategy by giving Mowbray a long term contract - something they don't usually do.

It was four but one has now finished...

Brereton can be seen as part of this long term planning.

Just hope he comes good for his own sake, for Rovers' sake and for proving the wisdom of strategically planning the squad upgrading.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by philipl

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You would be looking at more than £15 million I reckon. Nyambe 5-6 million, Lenihan 4-5million, Raya 7 million. 

Masterstroke and Coyle. Now there are two words you don't see in a sentence together too often  

I wouldn't personally say Nyambe is anything over about £2million personally, but who really knows in this market!

[Mercer]

47 minutes ago, philipl said:

It was four but one has now finished...

Brereton can be seen as part of this long term planning.

Just hope he comes good for his own sake, for Rovers' sake and for proving the wisdom of strategically planning the squad upgrading.

 

Think you are on a wing and a prayer there!

If that's strategic planning at Rovers then God help us.

Can't believe you are buying this moonshine.

[savage90]

As much as I like the core of our current squad, I can't help but notice our scouting does appear weaker than ever. Where are the new Olssons,  Sambas,  Nelsons, Friedels, Pedersens, Hoiletts and Mokoenas!? I can't remember our last successful signing from abroad (although I haven't thought that hard about it)? Surely Championship equivalents should be easier to find! A lot of the more competitive squads in this league have had an edge from abroad and most haven't paid a lot either. I don't think you necessarily need to spend big in this league (of course it helps), which is why the Bereton signing has been a bit frustrating - to look at the extreme, that could have been 7 players for 1 million each which is potentially enough for a promotion squad in this league. 

Cardiff - Zohore, Gunnarrsson, Manga

Watford - Ighalo, Abdi, Paredes

Huddersfield - Kachunga, Billing, Low, Van La Parra, Schindler, Mooy

Wolves - Bonatini, Boly, Saiss

Some great signings and I'm sure there are a lot more team's players that have been unearthed via this league.

Let's spend a bit on some well scouted talent in the right areas, as much as I love Tony, I think it's time he broadened ones horizons 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Think you are on a wing and a prayer there!

If that's strategic planning at Rovers then God help us.

Can't believe you are buying this moonshine.

Hoping a 19 year old gets more game time and improves hardly warrants this response. I don't think anyone is buying anything. It just seems some fans have their minds made up on Brereton, a 19 year old lad and nothing will change it. For some perspective,Dack is 5 years older than Brereton. Where was he when he was 19?

Just now, savage90 said:

As much as I like the core of our current squad, I can't help but notice our scouting does appear weaker than ever. Where are the new Olssons,  Sambas,  Nelsons, Friedels, Pedersens, Hoiletts and Mokoenas!? I can't remember our last successful signing from abroad (although I haven't thought that hard about it)? Surely Championship equivalents should be easier to find! A lot of the more competitive squads in this league have had an edge from abroad and most haven't paid a lot either. I don't think you necessarily need to spend big in this league (of course it helps), which is why the Bereton signing has been a bit frustrating - to look at the extreme, that could have been 7 players for 1 million each which is potentially enough for a promotion squad in this league. 

Cardiff - Zohore, Gunnarrsson, Manga

Watford - Ighalo, Abdi, Paredes

Huddersfield - Kachunga, Billing, Low, Van La Parra, Schindler, Mooy

Wolves - Bonatini, Boly, Saiss

Some great signings and I'm sure there are a lot more team's players that have been unearthed via this league.

Let's spend a bit on some well scouted talent in the right areas, as much as I love Tony, I think it's time he broadened ones horizons 

7 players for a million each enough for promotion? Sounds so simple. 

The players you then go onto mention cost far more than a million each in many cases. Wasn't Mooy like 10 million after his loan? 

[JacknOry]

Has a point though -it seems like scouting abroad stopped at this club after the Portugeezers and those French lower league duds - which were all brought in via agents anyway (so doubt there was actually any scouting involved).

We used to pick up some excellent bargains. N'zonzi is another one that should be added to the list above. 

[Mercer]

Good and pertinent post from savage90.

Good player recruitment is down to the manager's personal knowledge, the range of the manager's contacts and an effective scouting system.  I think Mowbray's player trading, excluding Dack, has been poor.

I think given the trials and tribulations since Venky's became our owners, our fans, to a degree, have been conditioned to gleefully accept mediocrity.

I think the club's operating structure has been dumbed down and, in my opinion, this is also evidenced in our medical team and the management of injured players.

In any organisation, the employment of quality staff in key positions is vital.  If you employ second and third raters, you wont move forward.  

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Mercer

[Mercer]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Hoping a 19 year old gets more game time and improves hardly warrants this response. I don't think anyone is buying anything. It just seems some fans have their minds made up on Brereton, a 19 year old lad and nothing will change it. For some perspective,Dack is 5 years older than Brereton. Where was he when he was 19?

7 players for a million each enough for promotion? Sounds so simple. 

The players you then go onto mention cost far more than a million each in many cases. Wasn't Mooy like 10 million after his loan? 

No one committed to a £10million+ (fee and wages) for Dack at 19!!!!!!!

No matter which way you or others dress it up, I think we've signed a dud and someone has dropped one big clanger.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Mercer said:

No one committed to a £10million+ (fee and wages) for Dack at 19!!!!!!!

No matter which way you or others dress it up, I think we've signed a dud and someone has dropped one big clanger.

Nobody is dressing it up. Yes, the fee was high, but again, was Dack the same player at 19 as he is now? He wasn't. So if someone had have spotted him and committed 10 million, they would have done well. 

We have Graham arguably playing the best football of his career, we have Brereton as his understudy learning from him. No panic.

Hard to tell if he is a dud or not after 300 minutes of football, but you are entitled to your opinion. 

[Oldgregg86]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

For some perspective,Dack is 5 years older than Brereton. Where was he when he was 19?

Playing in Gillingham first team, getting young player of the season and scoring two goals

Edited January 7, 2019 by Oldgregg86

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Has a point though -it seems like scouting abroad stopped at this club after the Portugeezers and those French lower league duds - which were all brought in via agents anyway (so doubt there was actually any scouting involved).

We used to pick up some excellent bargains. N'zonzi is another one that should be added to the list above. 

That's a different point though, which I take. Under Hughes in particular our recruitment was incredible. Add Santa cruz too if he hasn't already been mentioned. Emerton (possibly Souness), McCarthy. Incredible business really looking back. 

Lets not sugar coat it though and pretend it was all good. We had plenty of duds too. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Playing in Gillingham first team, getting young player of the season and scoring two goals

So, less than Brereton has done. In Forests first team scoring 8 goals in the Championship, not League 2 and 1 like Dack. Apprentice of the year in the Championship. 19 England under 19 caps, 1 under 20 cap. Joint top scorer at the under 19 Euros. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Beanie01289]

9 minutes ago, Mercer said:

No one committed to a £10million+ (fee and wages) for Dack at 19!!!!!!!

No matter which way you or others dress it up, I think we've signed a dud and someone has dropped one big clanger.

To be fair we will only know if a player is a dud when he leaves the club sometimes bringing a player along slowly when he's ready to play helps in the long run. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's a different point though, which I take. Under Hughes in particular our recruitment was incredible. Add Santa cruz too if he hasn't already been mentioned. Emerton (possibly Souness), McCarthy. Incredible business really looking back. 

Lets not sugar coat it though and pretend it was all good. We had plenty of duds too. 

For sure, I am just saying I do not understand why our scouting department seemingly does not go any further than the home islands anymore. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

My point was (using Dack as the example) successful players at a club like ours usually aren't here for three windows and then the cycle has to start again. I think it's folly to put any timescales on anything in football given that amount of variables. It brings an unnecessary pressure on the manager.

A pressure created by the manager though?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

For sure, I am just saying I do not understand why our scouting department seemingly does not go any further than the home islands anymore. 

I think it must be because Mowbray favors players from here for whatever reason. That nonsense with the Portuguese connection appears to have knocked our overseas recruitment on it's head. We should be looking alright. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

A pressure created by the manager though?

The only ones putting pressure on Mowbray are the fans. Most would have been happy with survival this season, but our good start moved the goalposts and now expectations are higher. Mowbray has always said it will take a few windows to mount a promotion push. 

[JHRover]

Just now, JacknOry said:

For sure, I am just saying I do not understand why our scouting department seemingly does not go any further than the home islands anymore. 

Because like with every other part of the club it has suffered from a lack of direction, forward planning and investment over the last 5-6 years. Much easier to recruit scouts and go scouting down the road at Liverpool reserve games than it is to unearth gems in Germany and Holland.

Venkys will have taken no interest in such things and by slashing running costs and downsizing the operation to what it is today one of the first things to go will be an extensive scouting system.

It seems Mowbray is trying to get things moving on that front but ultimately I suspect, looking at his recruitment during his managerial career, that he will always be a manager who relies on British and local players ahead of foreign.

There are lots of gems out there and the likes of Huddersfield, Norwich and Brentford have excelled in bringing them into England and thrived through it. But scratch beneath the surface and those are all clubs who have owners and boards that set out to do it by installing the right people in the right positions and let them get on with it. This is where a Technical Director or D of F comes in with responsibility to oversee recruitment and develop contacts abroad to enable those sort of signings to take place. Better value for money to be had too.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Yup, which is why he has brought pressure on himself next season.  

[savage90]

Cardiff even benefited from our old scouts last year to go up with Hoilett, the irony! I think our current network was affective for League One. Another team that had a nice balance of home-grown and some shrewd class from abroad was Southampton. They had Schneiderlin and Fonte. There will be more. My point is a valid one.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Yup, which is why he has brought pressure on himself next season.  

Indeed, but it seems irrelevant as he is under pressure from fans this season and is exceeding expectations! 

There is pressure on football mangers all the time anyway, regardless of what they say. Mowbray just needs to be backed financially, to do that he has to give Venkys some idea of what they can/should expect with investment 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel