JANUARY TRANSFER WINDOW

[JHRover]

Yeah as predicted Palmer is on his way out and will go to a Championship rival where I expect he will feature a lot more frequently than he has here. A strange one really. His arrival was arguably the most celebrated on here out of all our transfers in the summer as people got excited about his previous record at Derby and Huddersfield. For whatever reason it hasn't really worked out for him. His absence from the squad at Newcastle was the clue he was going. Very convenient he was ill.

In terms of the talk about big budgets we've heard it many times before that there's a healthy pile of cash available for new players but then for whatever reason it doesn't materialise. My expectations for this window are low. To be honest I'm not too concerned if we carry on with what we have got but I would like it if we added one or two of the ilk of Reed and Gallagher with a view to them being here longer term, if nothing else just to keep the building job going. Mowbray says it is a multiple window project so I expect to see some evidence this window of a plan being followed and work being done rather than just a loan or two and talk about keeping the powder dry until the summer. All this will ensure is more work needed to be done later.

[JHRover]

Just now, yellowsubmarine said:

Maybe we should swap Palmer for Chelsea's other youngster Hudson Odoi. 2 assists from crosses on the wings for Morata over the weekend.

Just need to get past Bayern Munich first.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

That then brings us back round to, could we afford to blow most of our budget on someone seen as an apprentice?! That cannot contribute and provide at least pressure on Graham for his spot? Yes hes only 19, but considering his price tag and his reputation following 2 seasons of regular Championship football, I think we all thought he would be seen as more than an "apprentice." Thats the first aspect of why this signing is so dubious.

Anyone who was happy with just survivial is both massively unambitious and pessimistic. We have a competitive, mid table budget for wages, we have a very healthy transfer budget (which we choose to mainly splurge on an "apprentice") and many of our players have proven track records at Championship level. Lets not be fooled by a season under Coyle where we had the likes of Brown, Greer, Lowe, Akpan, Feeney, Emnes and Hoban on short term deals that Mowbray managed to shed off with ease at the end of that season.

And the second aspect of this signing. We know hes young, hes raw. But he hasnt shown ANY positive attributes. Pace, skill, strength, a first touch, aeriel ability, goal threat, even a first touch or work rate to chase the ball down when hes fresh.

 

I think Mercer makes a very valid point about style of play, our reliance on long balls and reluctance to as of yet even remotely move towards the style of play that Mowbray  repeatedly mentions he would like to move towards is a concern in terms of progression; when will we see steps towards this on the pitch?

However, to suggest as he has that Mowbray is a "dinosaur" and that we should instantly expect promotion is a bit ridiculous, albeit it is unfair to stretch your "instant gratification generation" comment to anyone beside him, S8 & Blue. And before you mention Brereton, please see my comments above on why he warrants his criticism for me.

As you say, it is sensible, normal and realistic to have a plan to gradually develop the team, window by window. My only concern in this regard is Mowbrays success/failure in the transfer market, and how progressive I can see this process being.

I feel like his work in the transfer market has left a lot to be desired. Dack was obviously an absolute masterstroke by him but aside from that, its been very patchy. His other signings last year ranged from ones that could have a short term impact at League 1 level (Downing, Armstrong, Antonsson, Payne, Smallwood) to some absolute wasters. (Gladwin, Hart, Whittingham and Samuel has been poor) With greater resources, he hasnt improved the side at all really in the summer bar the temporary addition of Reed, and I also worry that turning a blind eye to the foreign market and seemingly focusing on the same pool of players (Gallagher, Chapman) will stunt our progression.

This isnt to say Mowbray is a poor manager or one who shouldnt be trusted. I think a lot of his quality lies with his man management and also his ability to get more from the players he inherited. But he will have to massively improve in the transfer market.

You are responding like Chaddy now, it's difficult to see which part people are responding to in your posts. 

It was most of the budget that was spent, we don't know the actual budget. 

Go back to the prediction thread, more than 50% said they would be happy with survival. I personally wanted top 10. I think we can still achieve that. 

I have seen positive attributes. I think he has a good dribbling style that shields the ball well. I also think his movement in the box has been good. He has had 2 goals disallowed and got 2 assists. People are exagerating about having no positve attributes. 

[roversfan99]

Palmer will need replacing, ideally with a natural wide man rather than another square peg in a round hole. And not Chapman, one that isnt riddled with injuries and can be a starter, not an impact sub.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 hours ago, Mercer said:

Were you about when Howard Kendall got us promoted from the old Third Division (now League 1) in 1979/80 and only missed out on promotion to the First Division (now PL) the following season on goal difference (and if memory serves me correct, we were never lower than eighth)?

That is what good managers with ambition, drive, shrewd recruitment and a plan do.  Kendall also did it on buttons unlike Mowbray who threw £10million+ at it in the summer and for what?   Kendall's shopping list the season after promotion from the old Third Division, again if memory serves me right, comprised one player we paid a fee for (Speight at approx. £40,000) and a number of frees including Marshall Burke, Viv Busby and Roger De Vries (may also have included David Hamilton).

In my view, Mowbray cannot hold a candle to the likes of Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith, Howard Kendall, Bobby Saxton, and Don Mackay etc.  They all worked under circumstances (financial and facilities) far worse than Mowbray's but all, in their own way, brought a measure of excitement and success to Rovers.

With the backing he's had, I think Mowbray should have made a much better fist of this season.  In my view, it was a huge mistake extending his contract as I think he's a bit of a managerial dinosaur and, in my opinion, we are going nowhere with him and I certainly don't want to have to wait several transfer windows for this to be confirmed. 

I wasn't born and to be honest you can't compare football now to back then. 

Mowbray has brought excitement. Do you not remember last season, or does that not count?  

This season isn't over. There have been ups and downs so far. The Wigan and Preston games apart, we have been unlucky not to have accrued more points. 

Mowbary isn't a "dinosaur" , that is nonsense. He has a squad of young, modern day footballers who are loyal to him and give their all for the jersey. It isn't easy to manage young lads on tens of thousands a week. Real life isn't like football manager. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are responding like Chaddy now, it's difficult to see which part people are responding to in your posts. 

It was most of the budget that was spent, we don't know the actual budget. 

Go back to the prediction thread, more than 50% said they would be happy with survival. I personally wanted top 10. I think we can still achieve that. 

I have seen positive attributes. I think he has a good dribbling style that shields the ball well. I also think his movement in the box has been good. He has had 2 goals disallowed and got 2 assists. People are exagerating about having no positve attributes. 

Ive seen him live in the vast majority of his games in person and I dont think that his movement is good, he rarely puts himself in a good position especially when the ball is wide, plus I dont think he shields the ball well when he dribbles.

Stand by my comments about those saying survival would be an achievement, obviously you do not fall under that category.

And yeah most of the budget Mowbray went on to spend was blown on an apprentice.

[blueboy3333]

33 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Palmer off to Bristol City on loan according to SSN. I knew that ‘illness’ was a load of rollocks.

A bit of a waste of space really. He might fare better in the No10 role if that's where BCFC are going to play him. He's obviously talented but probably needs a free role high up the pitch, not stuck out wide where he has to do a lot of tracking back. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Palmer will need replacing, ideally with a natural wide man rather than another square peg in a round hole. And not Chapman, one that isnt riddled with injuries and can be a starter, not an impact sub.

Mowbray signing a player that will start?!?! Some of what you’re on please

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Ive seen him live in the vast majority of his games in person and I dont think that his movement is good, he rarely puts himself in a good position especially when the ball is wide, plus I dont think he shields the ball well when he dribbles.

Stand by my comments about those saying survival would be an achievement, obviously you do not fall under that category.

And yeah most of the budget Mowbray went on to spend was blown on an apprentice.

Being played out of position isn't helping him. I hope he starts up font against Newcastle next week. I think it would be an ideal game for him. 

[Guest]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

A bit of a waste of space really. He might fare better in the No10 role if that's where BCFC are going to play him. He's obviously talented but probably needs a free role high up the pitch, not stuck out wide where he has to do a lot of tracking back. 

For sure, and that can be said for Rothwell, Brereton and Armstrong too. Time to get some actual wide men in.

[Admiral Nelsen]

Not overly upset about Palmer, assuming the reports are true. Talented boy though, seems like a decent lad too.

Seem to remember Tony mentioning about taking the pressure off Dack when we first brought him in. Probably envisaged him playing number 10 a lot more than he has done, which would've suited him more. 

Now that we're as good as safe, I'd rather give playing time to one of our own players. Makes sense for all parties. 

[blueboy3333]

Not transfer related but Mogga is bigging up Butterworth in the LT today. 

“Danny Butterworth travelled with us at the weekend because when he trains with the first team he rips it up. He can stick it through people’s legs and burst past them like Bradley (Dack) does and then rattle it in to the bottom corner. Somewhere along the line he will probably get an opportunity – but I’m not sat here saying we’re going to be relying on young 19-year-old kids"

Does he play in Dack's position?

[Tom]

Palmer will have a decent career, a talented player that we can’t really accommodate as like Jack Payne he’s another that is best in Dacks role but not as good as Dack at this point!

Good luck to him 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Not overly upset about Palmer, assuming the reports are true. Talented boy though, seems like a decent lad too.

Seem to remember Tony mentioning about taking the pressure off Dack when we first brought him in. Probably envisaged him playing number 10 a lot more than he has done, which would've suited him more. 

Now that we're as good as safe, I'd rather give playing time to one of our own players. Makes sense for all parties. 

Can we start saying that now?  

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Not overly upset about Palmer, assuming the reports are true. Talented boy though, seems like a decent lad too.

Seem to remember Tony mentioning about taking the pressure off Dack when we first brought him in. Probably envisaged him playing number 10 a lot more than he has done, which would've suited him more. 

Now that we're as good as safe, I'd rather give playing time to one of our own players. Makes sense for all parties. 

Yup, get the feeling Palmer was brought in just in case Dack was sold. injured, struggling to make the step up, or sent to prison. Was purely backup and that would not have gone well with Palmer or Chelsea in that regard.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Not transfer related but Mogga is bigging up Butterworth in the LT today. 

“Danny Butterworth travelled with us at the weekend because when he trains with the first team he rips it up. He can stick it through people’s legs and burst past them like Bradley (Dack) does and then rattle it in to the bottom corner. Somewhere along the line he will probably get an opportunity – but I’m not sat here saying we’re going to be relying on young 19-year-old kids"

Does he play in Dack's position?

That doesn’t make good reading for my man Brereton ?

[davulsukur]

50 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Palmer off to Bristol City on loan according to SSN. I knew that ‘illness’ was a load of rollocks.

Mowbray said a while back that keeping Palmer was unlikely, I think he alluded (or just said) it was more down to financial arrangements rather than game time/on field contributions.

[perthblue02]

9 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Not transfer related but Mogga is bigging up Butterworth in the LT today. 

“Danny Butterworth travelled with us at the weekend because when he trains with the first team he rips it up. He can stick it through people’s legs and burst past them like Bradley (Dack) does and then rattle it in to the bottom corner. Somewhere along the line he will probably get an opportunity – but I’m not sat here saying we’re going to be relying on young 19-year-old kids"

Does he play in Dack's position?

Wonder in a couple of months time, when the game day team is announced the most often phrase will be 

Can't believe its not butter(worth)

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Mowbray said a while back that keeping Palmer was unlikely, I think he alluded (or just said) it was more down to financial arrangements rather than game time/on field contributions.

So we couldn't use the £20 million budget on him then?

[K-Hod]

Disappointed with how the Palmer thing has transpired tbh. 

Think he could have contributed more for sure, but he also probably hasn't been used correctly/enough in the main.

I suppose it doesn't detract from the fact that we need to sign proper wingers to enable us to play Reed in his best position. I suppose that's wishful thinking though....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, Butty said:

Aiming for top 8? Really? Me personally I’d happily take a mid table finish as it’s something to build on. Expecting a top 8 finish is a bit too ambitious for my liking Mercer. We don’t have enough quality. If we can finish around 15th this season and sign some players who will definitely improve the squad for next season then we can expect more, the majority of our starting line up were players who played in league one last season, why would you expect us to be around the top 8 seriously? Spending 7 million on Brereton I can’t defend at all as it should have gone on 2 or 3 players to supplement the rest of the squad, but until this summer is over chill out man. Let’s see what our squad looks like on the first game of NEXT season before we start talking about top 8.. This current squad is where it should be for me. If we finish anywhere between 11th-15th it will have been a more than solid first season back in this league. 

Before we starting splashing out on Brereton etc I was expecting us to finish in the bottom third. Having seen the standard I'd say we could hopefully finish in mid table. We aren't set up to get promotion at the moment. Promoted teams can either score plenty of goals like Souey's promotion team or keep clean sheets on a weekly basis whilst pinching the odd goal like Howard Kendall's team. We are neither of those.

[Leonard Venkhater]

46 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Not overly upset about Palmer, assuming the reports are true. Talented boy though, seems like a decent lad too.

Seem to remember Tony mentioning about taking the pressure off Dack when we first brought him in. Probably envisaged him playing number 10 a lot more than he has done, which would've suited him more. 

Now that we're as good as safe, I'd rather give playing time to one of our own players. Makes sense for all parties. 

Are you Dustin Hoffman?

[Bigdoggsteel]

36 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Mowbray said a while back that keeping Palmer was unlikely, I think he alluded (or just said) it was more down to financial arrangements rather than game time/on field contributions.

It's probably down to Chelsea having a clause where we need to pay some type of increment if he doesn't play enough. I have read that is included in some loan deals. So cheaper to send him back. 

[tomphil]

Looking at it you think why bother with these lads when you hardly use them or don't use them correctly but reading between the lines I reckon like Payne he was signed just as Dack back up for long term absence or to fit in there if he was sold from under them.

Pointless signing or good planning for all eventualities that wasn't needed ?

[FGS5635]

We wont be paying all of Palmers wages. Bristol will have offered to pay a larger % and we have decided we wont for a player thats been a fringe player