ROVERS v Sheff Wed

[JacknOry]

Just now, 47er said:

I think I remember some blaming Raya  I don't see what else he could have done? Bannon was left totally in the clear, in the 6 yard box. Don't see how Raya could have covered that!

Not blaming Raya, but the defending before that was diabolical to say the least. 

[DaveyB]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

There's no parade Davey lad.

The point is Mowbray's 'wide forward' experiment, that no other manager seems stupid enough to try, just doesn't work. Have you anything to add to that discussion? Please try and counter it without resorting to 'yeah, but, you never said bring Conway back'. 

Cheers Davey lad. 

I’d suggest that 29 points from 20 games, sitting just 5 points outside the playoffs at the start of December, arguably a better start than most of us expected this season, means that it must work to some degree, no?

Add that to my earlier point about Armstrong being our most threatening attacking player in at least 2 recent games and maybe it’s less a discussion of ‘an experiment that just doesn’t work‘ than ‘something blueboy3333 off of BRFCS doesn’t like’.

 

There seems to be a dislike of Mowbray from a few on here (and you’re the most vocal) that I just can’t fathom. After the last 6 or 7 years he is like a breath of fresh air and has more than surpassed my expectations, but yet a number of posters on here seem to delight in bashing him when we lose and belittle his involvement when we win. To read some of the comments on here you’d think we were battling relegation, getting hammered week in week out, with a manager trying experimental formations that no one else is ‘stupid’ enough to try. But thank God it’s not negative on here, eh?

[roversfan99]

37 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

I’d suggest that 29 points from 20 games, sitting just 5 points outside the playoffs at the start of December, arguably a better start than most of us expected this season, means that it must work to some degree, no?

Add that to my earlier point about Armstrong being our most threatening attacking player in at least 2 recent games and maybe it’s less a discussion of ‘an experiment that just doesn’t work‘ than ‘something blueboy3333 off of BRFCS doesn’t like’.

 

There seems to be a dislike of Mowbray from a few on here (and you’re the most vocal) that I just can’t fathom. After the last 6 or 7 years he is like a breath of fresh air and has more than surpassed my expectations, but yet a number of posters on here seem to delight in bashing him when we lose and belittle his involvement when we win. To read some of the comments on here you’d think we were battling relegation, getting hammered week in week out, with a manager trying experimental formations that no one else is ‘stupid’ enough to try. But thank God it’s not negative on here, eh?

Your last paragraph sums something up very prevalent on this messageboard. Either misreading or manipulating a point a poster made about one element of our team that could be improved into a post about how everyone wants to stick the knife into Mowbray and everyone is happy when we lose. 

For what its worth, I think @blueboy3333 made a point with more than a semblence of truth to it. I think 29 points from 20 games is a points tally that is neither incredible but certainly is acceptable, possibly slightly above that. Hes doing well hence no one is really calling for his head bar maybe Mercerman.

 You look at Dack and Graham and we are perhaps overly reliant on that partnership, and we arent freescoring anyway. Mowbray takes plenty of credit there in that he signed Dack for a bargain fee and has seemingly man managed him very well, and hes also seemingly doing all he can to maintain Grahams career despite his age.

Wide positions however on the flip side are nowhere near as successful. The combined efforts of Armstrong, Rothwell, Palmer, Conway, Bennett and at times Reed in terms of goals and assists and also the inconsistent selections there suggest we are yet to stumble across a particularly effective set of wide men. Possibly as many of those players prefer to play elsewhere.

[yellowsubmarine]

Armstrong has been in particular, disappointing so far this season. Expected a few more goals from him, although because he's also played out on the wide (out of position). I really like him, he's a threat with his pace and shot. But we need to find the right position for him, he's not a winger.

Rothwell just doesn't have enough game time to contribute the goals. In those short cameos, he's proved he's attacking minded, he can run with the ball, played a good pass or two. Palmer too has been a bit-part player.

Bennett has lots of fight and tenacity but cant really contribute at the attacking end. I feel its more suited to the defensive part of the midfield.

Reed, has been impressive in every position he played so far, he gets into good position, has a footballing brain, can tackle as well. Keeping him in the centre with Evans or Smallwood if we can get a winger will be awesome.

Mowbray really needs to sort out this midfield with proper players in their respective positions.

[USABlue]

On 01/12/2018 at 10:54, perthblue02 said:

Graham and Dack auditioning for lead roles in brokeback mountain 2

From watching those two there maybe something in that.

[JBiz]

8 hours ago, DaveyB said:

There seems to be a dislike of Mowbray from a few on here (and you’re the most vocal) 

Have a look at his appointment thread from the beginning and you will see why Blueboy and a couple of others will find fault in anything they can! 

Coincidentally - at least two hyper-critics constantly drag another poster for saying he’d give Coyle “10 games” yet they sit with baited breath ready for Tony to make a decision they can disagree with.

”Tony’s lost the plot...” 

[USABlue]

On 01/12/2018 at 14:29, aletheia said:

Some interesting pre-match comments, that were, ahem, somewhat wide of the mark. Let’s just say that Conway would have been my MOM. Agree though, that he is not a saviour either.

 

Ditto the nonsense posted that we “pasted” them or they were “abysmal”. They controlled a lot of the game in the first half after our goal. And they looked dangerous for most of the second half. They also taught us a lesson in midfield triangles (but of course that’s not everything.)

 

Very enjoyable game. Great open game from both sides. Loved the interplay of some of their players in the second half, particularly the diminutive number 10 who controlled much of the game strangely.  Cracking 2^nd goal from them (Joao) and they looked as though they could easily draw level. But in their openness to create they left us room and we kept on scoring at the right time. Our third goal (I think) started with a square crossfield Conway pass that was a little dodgy and left Smallwood (?) with a 50/50. It was one of those that if their player had won it they would have caught us and be in on goal. Ditto the other way round. If it had been me, I would have just remained goal side and played safe. Smallwood, aggressively decided it was going to be his, won it, and on we go to score.

 

Clear right from kick off that high press and work hard were in the team talk. We were at it from the off –that makes a nice change. My immediate thoughts then were a) will we fade late on and b) can we score in this hot 15 mins? Answer, yes on 11mins to b) and yes a little on a) but we kept on managing to score again just as they looked likely to get back in it. Did enjoy Dack’s clever pull back for Graham’s tap in for the 4^th. Earlier in the season, he would have taken that on himself and had the goalie save.

 

So, good win and a very enjoyable game. It’s probably not a day to bring out some glaring issues (not least his love of 4231 and the personnel) but they haven’t gone away. Does he know his best team and formation? As usual, overreacting works both ways.

 

 

Ewood ace

We concede a hell of a lot goals considering how we line up, with 2 holding midfielders

 

That is something I also find very interesting. Mowbray loves 4231. So effectively a back 6. What I think happens (not necessarily today, which seemed quite an open game), is that those 6 often cautiously sit deep (a reason for our slow starts?) whilst the forward 4 are adrift upfront (the 2 wide players and Dack behind the striker). This means that opposing teams have effectively got easy control to my mind of the midfield and thus play.

I thought that too but reading the comments I though[.maybe I was wrong and had just not had eniugh coffee yet.  I'll tell you what, Conway, Dack, Graham all superb but that Harrison Reed is a joy to behold the lad was simply everywhere, I found my self wondering several times like where the hell did he come from.  Sign this lad up, hoe he is not in the Saints plans with the mess they are in is curious to say the least.  More so when you figure Sparky is boss seems like his type of player.

   I did not think the Owls were that awful they had me nervous frequently.  What a goal Jaoas was, Bannan got very lucky with the bounce.  I thought Wednesday played some nice fiotball at times they just don't seem to have any backbone ir self belief.  Thought Lucas looked pretty handy goal aside they were'nt that bad just we were better and clearly wanted it more.  Conway was a revelation, Travis first sub?  Well I like the lad and we could do worse.  Nyambe bothered me a bit, constant errant passing, one time in particular he lost the ball and did not really make an effort to get back.  Shortly after he looked to be struggling with his groin so maybe that was why.  Anyway, Harrison Reed, sign him up.  Will we ever see Rothwell or Davenport?  Brereton? will he ever get decent minutes, I just feel we have some hidden gems that need a chance to shine..  Haopy happy bout the result,

[USABlue]

On 01/12/2018 at 14:54, Stuart said:

And...

 

Aaaah A proper Blue, I LOVE that colour, I really despise the light blue.

[JacknOry]

21 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I thought that too but reading the comments I though[.maybe I was wrong and had just not had eniugh coffee yet.  I'll tell you what, Conway, Dack, Graham all superb but that Harrison Reed is a joy to behold the lad was simply everywhere, I found my self wondering several times like where the hell did he come from.  Sign this lad up, hoe he is not in the Saints plans with the mess they are in is curious to say the least.  More so when you figure Sparky is boss seems like his type of player.

   I did not think the Owls were that awful they had me nervous frequently.  What a goal Jaoas was, Bannan got very lucky with the bounce.  I thought Wednesday played some nice fiotball at times they just don't seem to have any backbone ir self belief.  Thought Lucas looked pretty handy goal aside they were'nt that bad just we were better and clearly wanted it more.  Conway was a revelation, Travis first sub?  Well I like the lad and we could do worse.  Nyambe bothered me a bit, constant errant passing, one time in particular he lost the ball and did not really make an effort to get back.  Shortly after he looked to be struggling with his groin so maybe that was why.  Anyway, Harrison Reed, sign him up.  Will we ever see Rothwell or Davenport?  Brereton? will he ever get decent minutes, I just feel we have some hidden gems that need a chance to shine..  Haopy happy bout the result,

I think people get tired of hearing my love for Harrison Reed but he is everything you want in a midfield player in my opinion. Dack, Graham and Conway (who was actually my man of match) rightly getting the plaudits for that match but I would argue it would not have been happening if you didnt have Reed on the pitch. He really is everywhere, always chasing down and harrassing players, pops up in both boxes and has good technical ability too. Reminds me of Batty in terms of his stature and the way he plays.

 

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, DaveyB said:

I’d suggest that 29 points from 20 games, sitting just 5 points outside the playoffs at the start of December, arguably a better start than most of us expected this season, means that it must work to some degree, no?

Add that to my earlier point about Armstrong being our most threatening attacking player in at least 2 recent games and maybe it’s less a discussion of ‘an experiment that just doesn’t work‘ than ‘something blueboy3333 off of BRFCS doesn’t like’.

 

There seems to be a dislike of Mowbray from a few on here (and you’re the most vocal) that I just can’t fathom. After the last 6 or 7 years he is like a breath of fresh air and has more than surpassed my expectations, but yet a number of posters on here seem to delight in bashing him when we lose and belittle his involvement when we win. To read some of the comments on here you’d think we were battling relegation, getting hammered week in week out, with a manager trying experimental formations that no one else is ‘stupid’ enough to try. But thank God it’s not negative on here, eh?

You've failed once again to engage with what I actually said. You seem to be using this forum as a personal vendetta against that 'blueboy3333' and not actually discussing what 'that blueboy333' said. It's very disappointing. 

AA has contributed nothing except a fluked cross all season. hardly his fault if he is being asked to play out of position in a role he isn't suited to. Mowbray persists with this failed experiment because he thinks it works (it doesn't) and because he's left himself no option due to his failure to buy a winger. He's now having to bring back Conway. a man he has side lined for almost the last 18 months, and not only that but he's promising him a start next week too. They are the facts. It isn't difficult. Also, looking 'our most threatening attacking player' and then being dropped by Mowbray is hardly a ringing endorsement of AA or Mowbray's judgement.  Hoisted by your own petard, Davey-lad. 

I also said on here that Mowbray fully deserved his long contract for what he has achieved since becoming manager. Is that bashing the manager?

You seem confused, Davey.

 

 

 

[old darwen blue]

17 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Freeman just signed a deal not that it essentially rules anything out. From what I've read (and what you perhaps meant to say) they have stated NO ins OR outs in January. Though someone would have to leave if they wish to bring in any free transfers. Have to say it's good to see a club crippled by the evil UEFA doing OK (at the moment) though can't exactly see them making the playoffs. The key thing is avoid relegation trouble then get back to normal. Or as normal as you can get with corrupt oppressive administrators.

I think you’ll find that QPR cheated and therefore deserve punishment. 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Have a look at his appointment thread from the beginning and you will see why Blueboy and a couple of others will find fault in anything they can! 

Coincidentally - at least two hyper-critics constantly drag another poster for saying he’d give Coyle “10 games” yet they sit with baited breath ready for Tony to make a decision they can disagree with.

”Tony’s lost the plot...” 

Quite a few on here Aug-Oct '17 - 'He has to change things he's so negative'

Tony Mowbray Nov'17 - 'We had to change things after the Oldham away game and we did'

Hope this helps.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by blueboy3333

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, yellowsubmarine said:

Armstrong has been in particular, disappointing so far this season. Expected a few more goals from him, although because he's also played out on the wide (out of position). I really like him, he's a threat with his pace and shot. But we need to find the right position for him, he's not a winger.

Don't be so negative. Biz and DaveyB don't like this kind of talk. AA is an 8/10 player and is really threatening at least twice a season*

*There's no end product but he does look really good bombing down the wing. 

[DaveyB]

54 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

You've failed once again to engage with what I actually said. You seem to be using this forum as a personal vendetta against that 'blueboy3333' and not actually discussing what 'that blueboy333' said. It's very disappointing. 

AA has contributed nothing except a fluked cross all season. hardly his fault if he is being asked to play out of position in a role he isn't suited to. Mowbray persists with this failed experiment because he thinks it works (it doesn't) and because he's left himself no option due to his failure to buy a winger. He's now having to bring back Conway. a man he has side lined for almost the last 18 months, and not only that but he's promising him a start next week too. They are the facts. It isn't difficult. Also, looking 'our most threatening attacking player' and then being dropped by Mowbray is hardly a ringing endorsement of AA or Mowbray's judgement.  Hoisted by your own petard, Davey-lad. 

I also said on here that Mowbray fully deserved his long contract for what he has achieved since becoming manager. Is that bashing the manager?

You seem confused, Davey.

 

 

 

I’d argue, once again, that you are confusing your opinion for fact. Since football is a team sport, and since we’ve won more games than we’ve lost this season, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that playing Armstrong wide is a ‘failed experiment that isn’t working’. 

By all means state that you don’t like Armstrong playing out there, or that you think someone else could do a better job, but be clear that that is your opinion and not a fact. And be clear also that 100 times out of 100 I’d choose the opinion of a man who has been involved in professional football over that of a nomark on a messageboard. 

 

Btw, I think the dropping of Armstrong for Conway is more down to attitude than level of performance. Mowbray was very critical of the team as a whole for their attitude on Wednesday and he knows, as do we all, that Conway will always give 100% effort, even when he’s not playing particularly well, and - especially with Bennett missing - I think that’s why he was chosen rather than it being an admission that we need ‘proper’ wingers. 

[47er]

17 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

I’d argue, once again, that you are confusing your opinion for fact. Since football is a team sport, and since we’ve won more games than we’ve lost this season, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that playing Armstrong wide is a ‘failed experiment that isn’t working’. 

By all means state that you don’t like Armstrong playing out there, or that you think someone else could do a better job, but be clear that that is your opinion and not a fact. And be clear also that 100 times out of 100 I’d choose the opinion of a man who has been involved in professional football over that of a nomark on a messageboard. 

 

Btw, I think the dropping of Armstrong for Conway is more down to attitude than level of performance. Mowbray was very critical of the team as a whole for their attitude on Wednesday and he knows, as do we all, that Conway will always give 100% effort, even when he’s not playing particularly well, and - especially with Bennett missing - I think that’s why he was chosen rather than it being an admission that we need ‘proper’ wingers. 

There are very few facts in football, overwhelmingly it's all about opinion. Armstrong looked a good striker last season in the middle. The only conclusion we can draw imo is that TM does not consider him good enough this season at a higher level. So he's stuck him out wide and, apart from that Leeds game, the general consensus is that he has been a disappointment. Sad for him because he is not in his preferred position.

Whether we've won more games than we've lost is not, in itself, an argument for picking Armstrong out wide. We can always improve and ,indeed, we should have won more games than we have. Conway is a genuine winger and showed exactly what we have been missing all season.

Your closing comment is purely your opinion and you produce no other evidence for it other than that's what you "think". We need proper wingers alright and I hope very much TM comes round to that point of view. At least we need that option, Conway proved it.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

Extended highlights courtesy of the Owls with decent commentary. Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivd9YDGz2eE&t=200s

Edited December 3, 2018 by AllRoverAsia

[JacknOry]

11 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Extended highlights courtesy of the Owls with decent commentary. Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivd9YDGz2eE&t=200s

Thanks for that, the shorter highlights are just the goals.

[AllRoverAsia]

11 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Thanks for that, the shorter highlights are just the goals.

Rovers make the short version no commentary highlights available via youtube but not the extended version.

However on the iFollow app if you have say a Free Pass account, I sometimes buy  a Matchday Pass through mine, the Extended highlights, historical too, are available but you have to be currently subscribed to watch the short version ..odd that.

[JacknOry]

Those Wednesday commentators were quite fair though I did chuckle when one said that the LJ goal was the hardest shot he had seen, guess he hasnt seen Steven Reids goal.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Going off those highlights Wednesday looked like a team going through the motions  hoping the new manager gets fired soon.

[DaveyB]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

There are very few facts in football, overwhelmingly it's all about opinion. Armstrong looked a good striker last season in the middle. The only conclusion we can draw imo is that TM does not consider him good enough this season at a higher level. So he's stuck him out wide and, apart from that Leeds game, the general consensus is that he has been a disappointment. Sad for him because he is not in his preferred position.

Whether we've won more games than we've lost is not, in itself, an argument for picking Armstrong out wide. We can always improve and ,indeed, we should have won more games than we have. Conway is a genuine winger and showed exactly what we have been missing all season.

Your closing comment is purely your opinion and you produce no other evidence for it other than that's what you "think". We need proper wingers alright and I hope very much TM comes round to that point of view. At least we need that option, Conway proved it.

 

Exactly. Hence the phrase ‘I think...’ - it’s not rocket science is it?

 

As to your other points - Armstrong played wide in virtually every game I saw last season, which was most of them. But I do agree he looked good at times.

And, whilst winning more than we lose is not in itself an argument for playing Armstrong out wide, it is an argument to say that Mowbray is getting things generally right and perhaps deserves more respect than posters on here saying he’s lost the plot or implying he’s stupid. 

Anyway, I’ll leave it there. I only came on to get a sense of how we’d played as I had to miss the game and I got riled by the disrespect shown to,imo, a decent manager. But I guess it’s just further reinforcement of why I no longer come on here as much

[Vinjay]

4 hours ago, old darwen blue said:

I think you’ll find that QPR cheated and therefore deserve punishment. 

So Jack Walker was a cheat?

[philipl]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Extended highlights courtesy of the Owls with decent commentary. Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivd9YDGz2eE&t=200s

That shows there was no reason to rule out Dack's goal before Graham got the first. The commentary says Wednesday escaped with one there.

[Leonard Venkhater]

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Extended highlights courtesy of the Owls with decent commentary. Enjoy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivd9YDGz2eE&t=200s

Thanks. I  have watched it a few times now. Commentary very fair. They couldn't have complained if we had scored 6 or 7. It looks like we did get 5 anyway.

On another set of highlights Bannon seems to have a bit of a go at Raya, immediately after his/Raya's  goal. A bit nasty , I thought.

Still wondering where the previous derby no-shows came from!

[AllRoverAsia]

13 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Thanks. I  have watched it a few times now. Commentary very fair. They couldn't have complained if we had scored 6 or 7. It looks like we did get 5 anyway.

On another set of highlights Bannon seems to have a bit of a go at Raya, immediately after his/Raya's  goal. A bit nasty , I thought.

Still wondering where the previous derby no-shows came from!

I like watching the extended highlights where you can see the moves evolve and not just the goals.

Many Clubs put them on Youtube, not Rovers though. With Rovers they can be accessed for free via the IFollow app even using a Free Pass account.

I saw that Bannan reaction somewhere. He got tangled with Raya when they both slid into the net. Fiesty red haired Scot, good player though.