Venkys - Welcome or Not?

[Rover_Shaun]

Just now, Gladwingone said:

they go back

I go back

BUT playing devils advocate they aren't going anywhere soon it seems.......sadly.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Rover_Shaun

[roverandout]

46 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

Obviously getting out of the Sunday league isn't what I was getting at. Just prompting a debate as Tan has done sonewhat of a Lazurus

As long as they put us back in the prem then sell we can all forget about them.

Wasnt having a pop at u..just in general

[JHRover]

To be honest Vincent Tan at Cardiff has basically done what Venkys have this season - appoint the right man for the job, let him get on with it, kept him happy with some limited cash, now promotion is secured there is a softening of the anger towards them. All of a sudden he's being carried around the pitch, but prior to hitting the jackpot with Warnock they were a shambles with Slade and Trollope as manager and massive budget cuts. Goes to show just how ludicrous it was that we overlooked Warnock and appointed that toerag instead.

[Rover_Shaun]

Tbf from the footage it was two Tan stooges who were holding him up ?

[DE.]

Comparing Tan with Venky's is pretty disingenuous imo. At what point did Tan hand over control of the club to an agency? Who was his Steve Kean, or indeed his Owen Coyle? Who on Cardiff's staff asked for  transfer targets on Facebook? Which board members there staged a public power struggle? Which random TV pundit was brought to Cardiff as a 400k pa global advisor? Granted they had the issue with the kit colour changing but Tan ultimately listened to the fans and changed it back. What's happened here is far more insidious than anything that's happened at Cardiff. 

[Rover_Shaun]

47 minutes ago, DE. said:

Comparing Tan with Venky's is pretty disingenuous imo. At what point did Tan hand over control of the club to an agency? Who was his Steve Kean, or indeed his Owen Coyle? Who on Cardiff's staff asked for  transfer targets on Facebook? Which board members there staged a public power struggle? Which random TV pundit was brought to Cardiff as a 400k pa global advisor? Granted they had the issue with the kit colour changing but Tan ultimately listened to the fans and changed it back. What's happened here is far more insidious than anything that's happened at Cardiff. 

I am in agreement with you even though I was never ever comparing the two. Though football fans are a fickle bunch and a sniff at the knicker of success clouds memories.?

[imy9]

Tan did change the shirt colour from its traditional blue to red...then proceeded to change the badge of the club! He changed his mind a few years ago and subsequently the fans have warmed to him as he has admitted his mistakes. Tan paid ludicrous amounts of money on average players and that is why he limited his funding, perhaps agents involved here to? 

Anyway point is that Tan may not be as bad as the Venkys but that’s not saying much!

[DE.]

Tan was your typical clueless foreign owner who thought he could come in, change a few things and be taking on the big boys. Seems like he's learned some hard lessons and got it right eventually. 

Venky's first few years had a much more sinister and complex edge to them, as evidenced by the leaked files re: Kentaro, as well as those Shebby Singh emails. After that they fall into the clueless foreign owner category but didn't seem to learn much, if the Owen Coyle debacle is anything to go by. It remains to be seen whether they back TM or whether they go back to their self-destructive default position. 

[roverandout]

30 minutes ago, DE. said:

Tan was your typical clueless foreign owner who thought he could come in, change a few things and be taking on the big boys. Seems like he's learned some hard lessons and got it right eventually. 

Venky's first few years had a much more sinister and complex edge to them, as evidenced by the leaked files re: Kentaro, as well as those Shebby Singh emails. After that they fall into the clueless foreign owner category but didn't seem to learn much, if the Owen Coyle debacle is anything to go by. It remains to be seen whether they back TM or whether they go back to their self-destructive default position. 

The latter

[Gav]

This football club will never progress until those idiots in Pune scuttle back under the rock from whence they came.

Simple as that really. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

Comparing Tan with Venky's is pretty disingenuous imo. At what point did Tan hand over control of the club to an agency? Who was his Steve Kean, or indeed his Owen Coyle? Who on Cardiff's staff asked for  transfer targets on Facebook? Which board members there staged a public power struggle? Which random TV pundit was brought to Cardiff as a 400k pa global advisor? Granted they had the issue with the kit colour changing but Tan ultimately listened to the fans and changed it back. What's happened here is far more insidious than anything that's happened at Cardiff. 

Lest we f***ing forget!

[darrenrover]

I'm far from a Venky apologist but I'm getting increasingly sick and tired of the debate of 'put us back where they found us' or 'I'm not setting foot in Ewood again'. It's @#/? but I accept everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yes Venkys name is over the door and yes there has been one monumental feck up after another for 5 years or so BUT they've stuck with it and poured cash into the club to both keep it afloat as the natural revenue streams have significantly reduced. Ah but it's increased 'the debt' was the cry. It's about time folk took a step back and think where the CASH has come from? It's Venkys cash and 'the loan' is merely an accounting function on the balance sheet, it's not a millstone around Blackburn Rovers neck as is frequently bandied about. If we were sold for £200 million, if we were lucky enough to get promoted to the PL, 'the loan' would be repaid as part of the sale consideration and would be offset against any Capital gain as a consequence of the sale, versus the original financial consideration when they bought the club almost 8 years ago. That is a fact. Who's to blame for Stoke going down this season and probably West Brom and one other? It's what happens every season and would inevitably have happened to us sooner or later under The Walker Trust.

I then read about a multitude of people being up in arms about increases in season ticket prices for next season (they're still extremely competitive in The Championship). How the hell are Rovers to become competitive in The Championship next season, Mowbray get a decent transfer budget, pay decent enough wages, without increased income through the turnstiles, season tickets and commercial support or more hand outs from Venkys, which further increases 'the debt'??

It then also begs the question of where does the working capital come from to meet the expectations (see above!)?

I stopped going for a period when Coyle was appointed, I took that as the ultimate insult and where the decision to appoint him came from, I'm fecked if I know. I can only assume it was a final swansong from 'those who can't be named' and I have it on decent authority that they've since departed the scene.

I realised that it was only me that was suffering by not attending for the first time for 51 years and relented after 6 months.

I'll never forget Venkys initial 6 years tenure but I'm prepared to cut them some slack for now and let's see what they do over this summer.

In the meantime, I'd ask those that are 'boycotting' to think about what I've said and perhaps reappraise and rethink their viewpoints. Perhaps at the same time, if they remain steadfast in their view, I would love to know what the realistic, alternative solutions are?

It might have only been the 'third division' but it's been the most enjoyable season for a decade and a half. Tony Mowbray may have his faults but his qualities far outweigh them in my view. The way that he has galvanised the club in the past 18 months, he deserves every Rovers' support and the more the merrier. Get your bloody season tickets bought!

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

Edited May 8, 2018 by darrenrover

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, darrenrover said:

I'm far from a Venky apologist but I'm getting increasingly sick and tired of the debate of 'put us back where they found us' or 'I'm not setting foot in Ewood again'. It's @#/? but I accept everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yes Venkys name is over the door and yes there has been one monumental feck up after another for 5 years or so BUT they've stuck with it and poured cash into the club to both keep it afloat as the natural revenue streams have significantly reduced. Ah but it's increased 'the debt' was the cry. It's about time folk took a step back and think where the CASH has come from? It's Venkys cash and 'the loan' is merely an accounting function on the balance sheet, it's not a millstone around Blackburn Rovers neck as is frequently bandied about. If we were sold for £200 million if we were lucky enough to get promoted to the PL, 'the loan' would be repaid as part of the sale consideration and would be offset against any Capital gain as a consequence of the sale versus the original financial consideration when they bought the club almost 8 years ago. That is a fact. Who's to blame for Stoke going down this season and probably West Brom and one other? It's what happens every season and would inevitably have happened sooner or later under The Walker Trust.

I then read about a multitude of people being up in arms about increases in season ticket prices for next season (they're still extremely competitive in The Championship). How the hell are Rovers to become competitive in The Championship next season, Mowbray get a decent transfer budget and pay decent enough wages, without increased income through the turnstiles and season tickets, commercial support or more hand outs from Venkys, which further increases 'the debt'??

It then also begs the question of where does the working capital come from to meet the expectations (see above!)?

I stopped going for a period when Coyle was appointed, I took that as the ultimate insult and where the decision to appoint him came from I'm fecked if I know. I can only assume it was a final swansong from 'those who can't be named' and I have it on decent authority that they've since departed the scene.

I realised that it was only me that was suffering not attending for the first time for 51 years and I relented after 6 months.

I'll never forget Venkys initial 6 years tenure but I'm prepared to cut them some slack for now and let's see what they do over this summer.

In the meantime, I'd ask those that are 'boycotting' to think about what I've said and perhaps reappraise and rethink their viewpoints. Perhaps at the same time if they remain steadfast in their view, I would love to know what the realistic, alternative solutions are?

It might have only been the 'third division' but it's been the most enjoyable season for a decade and a half. Tony Mowbray may have his faults but his qualities far outweigh them in my view. The way that he has galvanised the club in the past 18 months, he deserves every Rovers' support.

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

Henry Fonda, I presume!

They had a very harsh lesson, when we scraped survival at Wolves.Despite all the promises made to loyal fans in Pune, they continued the destruction and down we went.-the first time!

So many more harsh lessons followed with many decent people saying they have learned from their mistakes, then so many more of the same ..er.."mistakes.."

Even after all that mayhem...., Coyle over Warnock...so we must remain wary.

Worst case is that this brilliant promotion merely reduces the pressure and dilutes the resistance.

Obviously, I am hoping and praying for better..this time.

Leopards and spots etc and beware "the rule of optimism"

The next few weeks will speak volumes, I believe.

Rant over.....

 

 

[Vinjay]

Yeah you can only assume without any real evidence it was people who Venkys fought a lawsuit against. . Kean was a far bigger insult not to mention a number of other things appointing incompetent clowns like Shaw and Singh even if the latter managed one major positive result. The Coyle stuff was tedious bullying and a much worse example to set to kids than some people running on a field. I like Bennett but a premeditated cheap shot 15 months in the making is pretty childish. Bowyer hardly ran intense training sessions either but that's glossed over even though it could have made a big difference between getting in the playoffs and finishing just outside/midtable. He's a bad football manager (not a bully like some people if it was Coyle in hospital his negative traits wouldn't be ignored) and since families are so important on here his son seems like a pretty well adjusted, decent young man who works with amputees, etc. FFS the man's been fired what more do people want? Other people have done worse and said some of the same things like defending Kean, etc.

No right to lecture other people about petty grudges and their overall qualities as a human being.

Once again on Warnock there's suggestions he was asking too much for limited hours. Tan presumably offered more because I can't see him letting someone work 2 days a week. As for Tan he made one error with the shirts but what have Cardiff ever really done? Leeds United did sod all when Revie decided to change their shirts and as far as I know people didn't complain. Some mocked him for choosing a similar design to Real Madrid but besides that what else? Some of the stuff om Tan was xenophobia of the highest order with all the Bond villain stuff. I remember looking at Mackay and just detecting this aura of arrogance. There was something about him I just didn't like and nothing to do with him being Scottish. Of course he turned out to be an even worse person and Tan was right to fire him anyway. Over 10 million on a "project" was how Mackay put one signing. Kean would have been slaughtered for that and rightly so.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Vinjay17

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, darrenrover said:

I'm far from a Venky apologist but I'm getting increasingly sick and tired of the debate of 'put us back where they found us' or 'I'm not setting foot in Ewood again'. It's @#/? but I accept everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yes Venkys name is over the door and yes there has been one monumental feck up after another for 5 years or so BUT they've stuck with it and poured cash into the club to both keep it afloat as the natural revenue streams have significantly reduced. Ah but it's increased 'the debt' was the cry. It's about time folk took a step back and think where the CASH has come from? It's Venkys cash and 'the loan' is merely an accounting function on the balance sheet, it's not a millstone around Blackburn Rovers neck as is frequently bandied about. If we were sold for £200 million, if we were lucky enough to get promoted to the PL, 'the loan' would be repaid as part of the sale consideration and would be offset against any Capital gain as a consequence of the sale, versus the original financial consideration when they bought the club almost 8 years ago. That is a fact. Who's to blame for Stoke going down this season and probably West Brom and one other? It's what happens every season and would inevitably have happened to us sooner or later under The Walker Trust.

I then read about a multitude of people being up in arms about increases in season ticket prices for next season (they're still extremely competitive in The Championship). How the hell are Rovers to become competitive in The Championship next season, Mowbray get a decent transfer budget, pay decent enough wages, without increased income through the turnstiles and season tickets and commercial support or more hand outs from Venkys, which further increases 'the debt'??

It then also begs the question of where does the working capital come from to meet the expectations (see above!)?

I stopped going for a period when Coyle was appointed, I took that as the ultimate insult and where the decision to appoint him came from I'm fecked if I know. I can only assume it was a final swansong from 'those who can't be named' and I have it on decent authority that they've since departed the scene.

I realised that it was only me that was suffering not attending for the first time for 51 years and relented after 6 months.

I'll never forget Venkys initial 6 years tenure but I'm prepared to cut them some slack for now and let's see what they do over this summer.

In the meantime, I'd ask those that are 'boycotting' to think about what I've said and perhaps reappraise and rethink their viewpoints. Perhaps at the same time if they remain steadfast in their view, I would love to know what the realistic, alternative solutions are?

It might have only been the 'third division' but it's been the most enjoyable season for a decade and a half. Tony Mowbray may have his faults but his qualities far outweigh them in my view. The way that he has galvanised the club in the past 18 months, he deserves every Rovers' support and the more the merrier. Get your bloody season tickets bought!

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

Excellent post.

[darrenrover]

10 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Henry Fonda, I presume!

They had a very harsh lesson, when we scraped survival at Wolves.Despite all the promises made to loyal fans in Pune, they continued the destruction and down we went.-the first time!

So many more harsh lessons followed with many decent people saying they have learned from their mistakes, then so many more of the same ..er.."mistakes.."

Even after all that mayhem...., Coyle over Warnock...so we must remain wary.

Worst case is that this brilliant promotion merely reduces the pressure and dilutes the resistance.

Obviously, I am hoping and praying for better..this time.

Leopards and spots etc and beware "the rule of optimism"

The next few weeks will speak volumes, I believe.

Rant over.....

 

 

Hey Leonard, I'm as wary as anybody but I'm also a realist and have considered the alternatives or lack of them!

I agree with everything you've said but you know that already.

It's an hour later over here and I've worked my proverbial knackers off for 14 hours a day for the past 3 days after driving 920 miles the day before, so my mind's a tad slower than normal, please do tell, wtf has Henry Fonda got to do with owt?

I really do hope people think about the situation sensibly, 'park the bus' for now and go out and buy a season ticket.

[tomphil]

20 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Henry Fonda, I presume!

They had a very harsh lesson, when we scraped survival at Wolves.Despite all the promises made to loyal fans in Pune, they continued the destruction and down we went.-the first time!

So many more harsh lessons followed with many decent people saying they have learned from their mistakes, then so many more of the same ..er.."mistakes.."

Even after all that mayhem...., Coyle over Warnock...so we must remain wary.

Worst case is that this brilliant promotion merely reduces the pressure and dilutes the resistance.

Obviously, I am hoping and praying for better..this time.

Leopards and spots etc and beware "the rule of optimism"

The next few weeks will speak volumes, I believe.

Rant over.....

 

 

darrenr mentioned accounting function and I think these days that's just exactly what the club is to them, big profits on V H group again on their balance sheet for this year might see a good budget increase that allows a bit of proper team investment again.

A flip side to it this time next year if they are struggling again or channelling cash into another project might see a player fire sale again, something he doesn't mention.

Never know with this lot but yeah we are basically a handy accounting tool one way or another.

Edited May 7, 2018 by tomphil

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, darrenrover said:

Hey Leonard, I'm as wary as anybody but I'm also a realist and have considered the alternatives or lack of them!

I agree with everything you've said but you know that already.

It's an hour later over here and I've worked my proverbial knackers off for 14 hours a day for the past 3 days after driving 920 miles the day before, so my mind's a tad slower than normal, please do tell, wtf has Henry Fonda got to do with owt?

I really do hope people think about the situation sensibly, 'park the bus' for now and go out and buy a season ticket.

I don't disagree with you either!

Enjoy, mate, it's a compliment..

 

[gumboots]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I don't disagree with you either!

Enjoy, mate, it's a compliment..

 

Oh I did get the reference right! 

[darrenrover]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I don't disagree with you either!

Enjoy, mate, it's a compliment..

 

It's their name over the door, so whichever way you'd like to cut it, allowing the parasitical sharks to run riot, is always going to be their fault. (Guilty as charged, no question)

However, retribution is also in their hands and they may have made a start. This close season will speak volumes but we as supporters also have a role to play (as have the missing 'hoards').

[Stuart]

34 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Henry Fonda, I presume!

They had a very harsh lesson, when we scraped survival at Wolves.Despite all the promises made to loyal fans in Pune, they continued the destruction and down we went.-the first time!

So many more harsh lessons followed with many decent people saying they have learned from their mistakes, then so many more of the same ..er.."mistakes.."

Even after all that mayhem...., Coyle over Warnock...so we must remain wary.

Worst case is that this brilliant promotion merely reduces the pressure and dilutes the resistance.

Obviously, I am hoping and praying for better..this time.

Leopards and spots etc and beware "the rule of optimism"

The next few weeks will speak volumes, I believe.

Rant over.....

Promotion will make our club even less able to wash its own face. Player increases, competitive transfer fees. Venkys already picking up £2m deficit as a L1 club. That’s just grown.

It now comes down to their ambition. Do they want to see the club succeed or are they just looking to minimise losses? If it’s the latter, it’s going to be a tough old season.

I can’t see what else has changed over in Pune. Have any of them developed an interest in Rovers? Is there any kudos from being in the Championship? They aren’t welcome at Ewood and I expect they know this so they can’t even share in any success with the fans.

It’s all now on Mowbray selling “his dream”. If they don’t share it we are hoping that momentum will carry us away from the relegation zone but that won’t last forever. Whether they like it or not, they need PL football or they are going to have to prop us up for a while yet. Or sell.

[bob fleming]

Just now, Stuart said:

Promotion will make our club even less able to wash its own face. Player increases, competitive transfer fees. Venkys already picking up £2m deficit as a L1 club. That’s just grown.

It now comes down to their ambition. Do they want to see the club succeed or are they just looking to minimise losses? If it’s the latter, it’s going to be a tough old season.

I can’t see what else has changed over in Pune. Have any of them developed an interest in Rovers? Is there any kudos from being in the Championship? They aren’t welcome at Ewood and I expect they know this so they can’t even share in any success with the fans.

It’s all now on Mowbray selling “his dream”. If they don’t share it we are hoping that momentum will carry us away from the relegation zone but that won’t last forever. Whether they like it or not, they need PL football or they are going to have to prop us up for a while yet. Or sell.

As mentioned before, they could also be acting on the (bleeding obvious) advise that those two accountancy firms may have given last summer. I.e.”if you want your money back, or have any chance of getting your money back, then you need to get BRFC back into the Premier League and keep them there for a few years. That’ll need further investment.”

Who knows what happens next. As ever, I don’t trust “them”. Hopefully things have changed though. They did back Mowbray last summer after all plus serviced the debt.

Time will tell. The rest is just speculation and guess work based on whether your a pessimist or an optimist. Or “based on the last 8 years, 7 of which have been dreadful, a realist” if you like.

But the last year was good.

[darrenrover]

Just now, Stuart said:

Promotion will make our club even less able to wash its own face. Player increases, competitive transfer fees. Venkys already picking up £2m deficit as a L1 club. That’s just grown.

It now comes down to their ambition. Do they want to see the club succeed or are they just looking to minimise losses? If it’s the latter, it’s going to be a tough old season.

I can’t see what else has changed over in Pune. Have any of them developed an interest in Rovers? Is there any kudos from being in the Championship? They aren’t welcome at Ewood and I expect they know this so they can’t even share in any success with the fans.

It’s all now on Mowbray selling “his dream”. If they don’t share it we are hoping that momentum will carry us away from the relegation zone but that won’t last forever. Whether they like it or not, they need PL football or they are going to have to prop us up for a while yet. Or sell.

I'm pleased they're being frugal Stuart and cutting our cloth accordingly. It's about time and a shame it didn't happen 7 years ago when they readily handed over the keys to the safe when it was awash with cash!

If I were Venkys, I'd throw a gauntlet down to our supporters, 'potential supporters' and/or boycotters and state that the level of backing would be based on season ticket sales. Stick a disclosed, substantial amount in an escrow account, where incremental withdrawals could be made by the club subject to predetermined targets, starting at say 8,000 season tickets sold, with a massive bonus should 15,000 be achieved. I accept that this could potentially affect summer transfer targets, so hopefully there will be 12 to 15,000 plus 'early birds'!!

[Stuart]

Just now, bob fleming said:

As mentioned before, they could also be acting on the (bleeding obvious) advise that those two accountancy firms may have given last summer. I.e.”if you want your money back, or have any chance of getting your money back, then you need to get BRFC back into the Premier League and keep them there for a few years. That’ll need further investment.”

Who knows what happens next. As ever, I don’t trust “them”. Hopefully things have changed though. They did back Mowbray last summer after all plus serviced the debt.

Time will tell. The rest is just speculation and guess work based on whether your a pessimist or an optimist. Or “based on the last 8 years, 7 of which have been dreadful, a realist” if you like.

But the last year was good.

They service the debt but it didn’t look as though our net spend was that much. They didn’t sell anyone Mowbray wanted to keep (or whose asking price wasn’t met) though - similar to when Bowyer was here.

However, due to our fall from grace, we now need to increase squad quality rather than just keep what we have. That may be a first.

[bob fleming]

Just now, Stuart said:

They service the debt but it didn’t look as though our net spend was that much. They didn’t sell anyone Mowbray wanted to keep (or whose asking price wasn’t met) though - similar to when Bowyer was here.

However, due to our fall from grace, we now need to increase squad quality rather than just keep what we have. That may be a first.

Agreed. They spent a lot for Div 1. A drop in the ocean compared to the Championship.

It might be a year of consolidation. Would you go all out first year back? I’m not sure I would. Too much change (players wise) too soon is never good. But either way, we need more quality. Then again TM might get ten bob and a chicken leg and told to sling his hook.

Time will tell.