Venkys - Welcome or Not?

[sympatheticclaret]

On 07/05/2018 at 22:11, Stuart said:

Promotion will make our club even less able to wash its own face. Player increases, competitive transfer fees. Venkys already picking up £2m deficit as a L1 club. That’s just grown.

It now comes down to their ambition. Do they want to see the club succeed or are they just looking to minimise losses? If it’s the latter, it’s going to be a tough old season.

" Venky's already picking up £ 2m deficit as a L1 club.. "  

I think you mean £ 20, 772, 156 , which is what they've issued by way of further shares in the 14 months since January 2017 ...

[Stuart]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

" Venky's already picking up £ 2m deficit as a L1 club.. "  

I think you mean £ 20, 772, 156 , which is what they've issued by way of further shares in the 14 months since January 2017 ...

Took you long enough to get back to me on that one. Were you waiting for your turn on the Bumley municipal interweb computer down at the town hall? 

[Raya4espania]

I predict venkys will allow Mowbray 5m total inc wages. That was their pledged financial commitment per season when they bought the club and I can't see them going beyond that without income from a player sale.

[sympatheticclaret]

Just now, Stuart said:

Took you long enough to get back to me on that one. Were you waiting for your turn on the Bumley municipal interweb computer down at the town hall? 

  No, my friend.....anyway, they're at the Central Library not the Town Hall !!

  I see you're not arguing with the figures though ?  An effective subsidy to cover operating losses of £ 400, 000 p.w. on conservative estimates... 

 

[sympatheticclaret]

Just now, Raya4espania said:

I predict venkys will allow Mowbray 5m total inc wages. That was their pledged financial commitment per season when they bought the club and I can't see them going beyond that without income from a player sale.

  But they've put in over £20.5m in the last 14 months .....

[JHRover]

22 minutes ago, sympatheticclaret said:

" Venky's already picking up £ 2m deficit as a L1 club.. "  

I think you mean £ 20, 772, 156 , which is what they've issued by way of further shares in the 14 months since January 2017 ...

Source? 

[Raya4espania]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

  But they've put in over £20.5m in the last 14 months .....

Not signing players they haven't.

[Stuart]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

  No, my friend.....anyway, they're at the Central Library not the Town Hall !!

  I see you're not arguing with the figures though ?  An effective subsidy to cover operating losses of £ 400, 000 p.w. on conservative estimates... 

No idea if your figures are right or wrong matey. As far as I’m concerned we are financially fooked. No great shock there. Why do you think we all want new owners and/or PL income. Our club infrastructure relied on it and Venkys set fire to it all.

You meanwhile have been promoted at just the right time, and on the face of it are being very well run.

I console myself in that we flew close to the sun but in doing so became champions of England thanks to a self made Blackburn man. Whilst your time has seen you peak at 7th and will get to watch some back water former Intertoto cup regular in front of a bumper 20,000 crowd. Yet, will spectacularly miss the glaring irony of trying to take the piss by “remember that incident in that Rovers Champions League game”.

[sympatheticclaret]

Just now, JHRover said:

Source? 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07406020/filing-history

 

 

[sympatheticclaret]

Just now, Raya4espania said:

Not signing players they haven't.

 No, just paying the wages and keeping the Gas and Electric on ...

 IMHO.... Venkys would need to agree to £60m over the next 12 months ( Transfer Budget & Wages ) to give you half a chance of a Play-Off spot, given the Clubs joining from relegation and the Clubs already there ...

[Raya4espania]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

 No, just paying the wages and keeping the Gas and Electric on ...

 IMHO.... Venkys would need to agree to £60m over the next 12 months ( Transfer Budget & Wages ) to give you half a chance of a Play-Off spot, given the Clubs joining from relegation and the Clubs already there ...

Its also questionable as to whether Venkys put anything in. Why does the debt keep going up? Is it their money, or just borrowed cash from the bank of India? In all the years they've owned Rovers, very little put in has come from their own fortune.

[sympatheticclaret]

Just now, Raya4espania said:

Its also questionable as to whether Venkys put anything in. Why does the debt keep going up? Is it their money, or just borrowed cash from the bank of India? In all the years they've owned Rovers, very little put in has come from their own fortune.

 The debt is going up because Venkys are issuing more shares in Venkys London Limited , and buying them through their associated Indian Registered Company, Venkateshwera Hatcheries Pvt Ltd . The money raised from share issues is going to support the everyday running of the Football Club, and shows in the accounts as " Called up Share Capital ". It's highly improbable that the Bank of India would invest in Venkys London Ltd on their own account...

I suspect Venkys have invested somewhere north of £130m in Blackburn Rovers, in the years since they took control .... 

[Raya4espania]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

 The debt is going up because Venkys are issuing more shares in Venkys London Limited , and buying them through their associated Indian Registered Company, Venkateshwera Hatcheries Pvt Ltd . The money raised from share issues is going to support the everyday running of the Football Club, and shows in the accounts as " Called up Share Capital ". It's highly improbable that the Bank of India would invest in Venkys London Ltd on their own account...

I suspect Venkys have invested somewhere north of £130m in Blackburn Rovers, in the years since they took control .... 

On top of the debt? Nonsense. It doesn't cost that much to run a football club.

[sympatheticclaret]

1 hour ago, Raya4espania said:

On top of the debt? Nonsense. It doesn't cost that much to run a football club.

The debt is the amount that Venkys London Ltd " owe " the Parent Company based in India, due to their " investment " or purchase of Shares.... hence the debt showing as " Called up Share Capital " .... this in addition to any Bank debt, Loans, etc in the Accounts...

Like Bolton's debt funded by Eddie Davis, and Wigan's funded by Dave Whelan, it isn't a big problem if the Venkys don't want it back and and are prepared to invest more. Once the funding tap is turned off, as Davis did, then problems mount up very quickly....

[Mattyblue]

‘Sympathetic’.

 

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Sympathetic’.

 

It's a mixture of simple and pathetic 

[tomphil]

Dingles normally supporting Venkys for pulling Rovers to bits and sending us down the leagues so you'd think that support would be wavering a bit at the moment. Now we have one who keeps popping up almost praising them for paying the bills although like one or two of their underwear sniffers on here never mentions the 30 million in sales and chronic lack of reinvestment for a period which saw us tumble to the lowest point in 40 years and have to put up with the likes of Coyle & co.

Suspiciousclaret more like ?

[JHRover]

People seem to be inclined to credit Venkys for continuing to pay the bills as though they are happily doing this because they are kind and benevolent people. They are meeting their responsibilities as majority shareholders for meeting running costs, the vast majority of which they have increased through their decision making and ineptitude over several years.

The alternative to putting that money in is clear. Option one is that they put the club into administration, option two is that they liquidate the club. Either of those means that they lose control of it and either way they will never get remotely close to recouping the money they've lost to date.

Its like me buying a house, leaving the property to go to rack and ruin for 5 years, but meeting the mortgage payments, and then going back after 5 years and coughing up some more money to repair it and make it habitable. I'd have little to no choice but to do it and shoulder the cost of doing it. The alternative would be handing the keys back to the bank or being left with a house that was worthless and uninhabitable. What Venkys are doing is basically that but on a much larger scale. Meeting the bills and mortgage costs (which they've little choice about) and then allowing a bit more in when persuaded to do so to try and build up some more value in the club and improve its condition moving forward.

I accept that they are putting their money in and it is a substantial amount each month, but I'm not grateful to them for doing it as I don't think they've much choice and I also think the majority of losses even now could be reduced if they had put a more competent structure in place some time ago. For example our revenues are relatively small yet the commercial side of the club has been woefully short of the level required for some time. I'm also not particularly worried about the debt situation that people at other clubs seem to obsess about as they've no chance of getting that money back.

[arbitro]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

People seem to be inclined to credit Venkys for continuing to pay the bills as though they are happily doing this because they are kind and benevolent people. They are meeting their responsibilities as majority shareholders for meeting running costs, the vast majority of which they have increased through their decision making and ineptitude over several years.

The alternative to putting that money in is clear. Option one is that they put the club into administration, option two is that they liquidate the club. Either of those means that they lose control of it and either way they will never get remotely close to recouping the money they've lost to date.

Its like me buying a house, leaving the property to go to rack and ruin for 5 years, but meeting the mortgage payments, and then going back after 5 years and coughing up some more money to repair it and make it habitable. I'd have little to no choice but to do it and shoulder the cost of doing it. The alternative would be handing the keys back to the bank or being left with a house that was worthless and uninhabitable. What Venkys are doing is basically that but on a much larger scale. Meeting the bills and mortgage costs (which they've little choice about) and then allowing a bit more in when persuaded to do so to try and build up some more value in the club and improve its condition moving forward.

I accept that they are putting their money in and it is a substantial amount each month, but I'm not grateful to them for doing it as I don't think they've much choice and I also think the majority of losses even now could be reduced if they had put a more competent structure in place some time ago. For example our revenues are relatively small yet the commercial side of the club has been woefully short of the level required for some time. I'm also not particularly worried about the debt situation that people at other clubs seem to obsess about as they've no chance of getting that money back.

I don't get this gratitude to them for paying the bill's neither. The prolonged predicament we have (and still are in) found ourselves in is down to them. I still have 120 million reasons to dislike them.

It's like being on a life support machine for several years after being assaulted and your assailant paying the electricity bill to keep the machine switched on. And you have to be thankful to them.

[Rover_Shaun]

2 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It's a mixture of simple and pathetic 

Simplepatheticcarrot?

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I don't get this gratitude to them for paying the bill's neither. The prolonged predicament we have (and still are in) found ourselves in is down to them. I still have 120 million reasons to dislike them.

It's like being on a life support machine for several years after being assaulted and your assailant paying the electricity bill to keep the machine switched on. And you have to be thankful to them.

Well said....And instead of a consultant, enter a clown....(followed by another and another..)

[lraC]

18 hours ago, Raya4espania said:

Its also questionable as to whether Venkys put anything in. Why does the debt keep going up? Is it their money, or just borrowed cash from the bank of India? In all the years they've owned Rovers, very little put in has come from their own fortune.

The sums have been done before and when you look at the money brought in on big player sales, premier league money and parachute money for 4 years, there is a big hole somewhere.

[sympatheticclaret]

58 minutes ago, lraC said:

The sums have been done before and when you look at the money brought in on big player sales, premier league money and parachute money for 4 years, there is a big hole somewhere.

Player's Wages, Agent's Fees & Managerial Pay-Offs........simples !!

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, sympatheticclaret said:

Player's Wages, Agent's Fees & Managerial Pay-Offs........simples !!

But agents were/are partners in running the club. Also a large slice of player wages, signing on fees-and indeed managerial pay offs-went to said partners.

To think I once wondered why there were so many strange signings

[JacknOry]

For the unsympathetic sympathetic Claret.

These were just some of the players brought in on impressive agents advice to get us back to the PL....look how their careers have turned out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinho_Júnior

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogo_Rosado

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Jorge_Gomes_Pereira

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Henrique_Gonçalves_Nogueira

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fábio_Alexandre_Silva_Nunes

This is without including Jerome Andersons own son who now plays for some pub team.