Venkys - Welcome or Not?

[matt83]

39 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

Invested heavily in both the £3 million a year for the thriving academy, and the brilliant support this season in the transfer market. 

So after a decade of destroying the club the fact they keep the academy ticking over is enough for you. Ok. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

11 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

They made a mistake but stuck around to make things right. And supported is in the transfer market in a time of great trouble.

I applaud the Venkys. 

 

Calling it a "mistake" is under playing it to the extent you must either on the wind up, or you only started supporting Rovers post 2011.

They've stuck around through cultural stubbornness and the closest they've come to an apology is the one that looks like a waiter coming on TV in 2012 stating they were "confused".

Ah, the old money argument. Good, they should be pumping money in every year given they are the reason our revenues have dropped through the floor since relegation. And actually they've spent a negligible amount on us - given their wealth. 

And you applaud them? 

[OldEwoodBlue]

The answer to this poll can be found in the hard evidence seen at our Ewood HQ. Vilesinner is unfortunately one of minority who can be left to their own opinion

15000 regulars lost to the "one" venky mistake.

Jack's legacy lost to the "one" venky mistake.

Better not mention the 3rd Division in case it raises the spector of at least a second mistake.

Terrible manager floundering but apparently has to stay at all costs in case venkys apparently make another mistake.

(strange opinion that, you would almost think they have a proven track record of mistakes)

One of the worst (boring and ineffictive) sides to ever grace Ewood.

A disgrace of a pitch and stadium.

Down to 2500 ST holders.

Thousands of lost jobs in Blackburn.

Millions of lost income in Blackburn.

Generations of lost new Rovers fans.

 

Did I just read "they have put things right"... WHERE ?!

[Sparks Rover]

12 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

Invested heavily in both the £3 million a year for the thriving academy, and the brilliant support this season in the transfer market. 

Disgrace, hang your head.

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Did I just read "they have put things right"... WHERE ?!

Yeah that's what gets me. Aside from the momentum of errors (likes the rest of your post too btw) even the drawing a line in the sand argument is weak because it clearly isn't the case. 

Putting things right would mean we are back as a midtable Premiership team relatively debt free. Nowhere near that. 

Or if we say put things right is doing stuff right from now on (which isn't the same thing but let's run with it) then that's still not the case. 

An unsackable manager with his mate as his boss, no transfer fees on defence since promotion, all managers coming from an agency, decisions from Pune taking ages. It's still no way to run a club. It's like praising an inmate for dealing drugs instead of murdering people. It's still a crap situation. 

[Stuart]

Can’t believe what I’m reading in this thread.

Venkys still are in moral debt to the fans.

They have never apologised for these so-called mistakes but that doesn’t matter when all’s said and done. When the take us back to the PL and keep us there for one season they will be even. It’s that simple.

While they continue to back the people who are preventing us getting there (and trying to convince everyone what a small club we are) they continue to “make mistakes”.

 

[darrenrover]

20 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

"Brilliant" support this season? A few hundred grand on a keeper, a nominal fee for another, a few more hundred grand on a left back from Crewe and a lorry load of loans. In the circumstances the manager cant complain too much but "brilliant" supports seems a little dare I say provocatively hyperbolic.

Sorry roversfan99 but I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may:

What do you think our revenue and expenditure account looks like for the past 18 months?

Where has our income stream come from? Where and how has the shortfall been covered?

I would respectfully suggest that the support is about much more than just "a few hundred grand on a keeper, a nominal fee for another, a few more hundred grand on a left back from Crewe and a lorry load of loans"

I really wish that folk would really think about things sensibly. I disagree with you totally.

As I mentioned a week or so back, I do think that credit should be given where credit is due. Other than perhaps a decent local board, who are empowered to a certain degree, I doubt there have been any better owners in the country than ours have been over the past couple of years.

Would you rather have a bunch of Mormon Yanks with a leveraged buy out?🤣🤣🤣 (Fecking dingles haha)

[rigger]

I wouldn't mind them coming over and giving Mowbrey the boot.

[matt83]

6 hours ago, Blue blood said:

It's like praising an inmate for dealing drugs instead of murdering people. It's still a crap situation. 

The analogy I like for the Venkys is a surgeon shooting you then performing surgery to save your life. Then even though the shooting has lead to life altering problems you’re supposed to be grateful for the surgeon saving your life. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

I wouldn't mind them coming over and giving Mowbrey the boot.

Careful with that one, last time that type of thing was mooted to be happening the managers agent got on the phone. Not only headed it off but bagged his man a new deal !

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, matt83 said:

The analogy I like for the Venkys is a surgeon shooting you then performing surgery to save your life. Then even though the shooting has lead to life altering problems you’re supposed to be grateful for the surgeon saving your life. 

The problem with this analogy is it suggests the surgeon does something positive in saving your life and you are back in the same situation as before the surgeon. Maybe add the difference being after the surgery you can't walk and are addicted to the morphine the surgeon provides. That would start to illustrate the crap we are still in because of Venkys current running of the club and previous actions. 

[darrenrover]

10 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah that's what gets me. Aside from the momentum of errors (likes the rest of your post too btw) even the drawing a line in the sand argument is weak because it clearly isn't the case. 

Putting things right would mean we are back as a midtable Premiership team relatively debt free. Nowhere near that. 

Or if we say put things right is doing stuff right from now on (which isn't the same thing but let's run with it) then that's still not the case. 

An unsackable manager with his mate as his boss, no transfer fees on defence since promotion, all managers coming from an agency, decisions from Pune taking ages. It's still no way to run a club. It's like praising an inmate for dealing drugs instead of murdering people. It's still a crap situation. 

How would you get rid of the 'debt'? 

How would you have accounted for the influx of cash differently, had you been KPMG, Deloitte Touche etc?

I'll never forget how our club has plummeted in certainly 8 of the past 10 years, and the reasons as to why, but does this 'self flagellation' have to carry on for ever?

[Blue blood]

1 minute ago, darrenrover said:

How would you get rid of the 'debt'? 

How would you have accounted for the influx of cash differently, had you been KPMG, Deloitte Touche etc?

I'll never forget how our club has plummeted in certainly 8 of the past 10 years, and the reasons as to why, but does this 'self flagellation' have to carry on for ever?

It's Venkys flagilation not Rovers. And as to how to get rid of the debt two thoughts: 

1) It's tricky and shows how badly Venkys have screwed us. 

2) The simple - but not easy answer - is to get promotion. Which raises the question and we being run in a manner that supports or hampers us from this objective? I'd suggest there's more of the latter. 

When Venkys start running us properly - not better than before because that bar is so low-  there'll be more room to discuss forgive and forget. 

 

[Crimpshrine]

On 05/02/2021 at 19:08, Vilesinner said:

They made a mistake but stuck around to make things right. And supported is in the transfer market in a time of great trouble.

I applaud the Venkys. 

 

Certainly living up to your name with that post. You need to go to confession.

[darrenrover]

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

It's Venkys flagilation not Rovers. And as to how to get rid of the debt two thoughts: 

1) It's tricky and shows how badly Venkys have screwed us. 

2) The simple - but not easy answer - is to get promotion. Which raises the question and we being run in a manner that supports or hampers us from this objective? I'd suggest there's more of the latter. 

When Venkys start running us properly - not better than before because that bar is so low-  there'll be more room to discuss forgive and forget. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with point no. 2. With regards to appropriate and empowered (to a degree) governance, If that were allied to the levels of cash Venkys would appear to be prepared to lavish on The Club, now that they allegedly, are the sole owners, would that not be the best possible outcome, promotion or not?

The debt is never going to disappear, the Rao's would be stupid to do that but it isn't a burden on the Club either, as is so often painted. It's a far better position to be in than The Dingles, where their new owners have paid effectively bugger all for the 'privilege' of owning the bastards and instead have concluded a leveraged buy out, where BFC has effectively bought itself and loaded itself with debt to enable it to do so. They'll be the next Bolton Wanderers, mark my words!

I'll never forget and would also only partially forgive too, irrespective. I do however feel that the past 2 years, Mowbray and Waggott to their credit have played their part in this, have shown signs of significant change IMO.

As a fervent and passionate supporter of BRFC, home and away for 54 years, I'm starting to look forward to my football once again and I've really missed that feeling something rotten. I'm just asking if most of my fellow supporters could perhaps consider that I am possibly correct and in so doing, rekindle their own warm feelings about the Club similarly.

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

[Mattyblue]

5 hours ago, darrenrover said:

 

I'll never forget how our club has plummeted in certainly 8 of the past 10 years, and the reasons as to why, but does this 'self flagellation' have to carry on for ever?

I am fully aware that we are totally reliant on them, especially in a covid world, I’m also aware there’s no white knight coming over the hill, Jack was unique (well maybe not if you count Lawrence Cotton, but we’ve certainly used up our luck with fantastic local ownership), but why do I need to ‘forgive and forget’?

They have put us back decades off the pitch and on it we are exactly where we’ve been pretty much the last decade (an embarrassing drop to the third division aside). A sign that merely throwing money at a business is a fools errand without employing highly competent people - a decade on and we still see spiv characters like Waggott running things, but I suppose he’s not as odious as Shagnew, so hooray!

I accept them, I realise there’s no alternative and I am glad they have carried on pumping the cash in in these uncertain times, but I do not laud them, my beloved club is a shadow of what it was on the day they took over- and as it makes no difference if I start doffing my cap or I don’t, (I’ll leave that to you) I’ll just carry on supporting the club in any way that I can.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Mattyblue

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

5 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I agree wholeheartedly with point no. 2. With regards to appropriate and empowered (to a degree) governance, If that were allied to the levels of cash Venkys would appear to be prepared to lavish on The Club, now that they allegedly, are the sole owners, would that not be the best possible outcome, promotion or not?

The debt is never going to disappear, the Rao's would be stupid to do that but it isn't a burden on the Club either, as is so often painted. It's a far better position to be in than The Dingles, where their new owners have paid effectively bugger all for the 'privilege' of owning the bastards and instead have concluded a leveraged buy out, where BFC has effectively bought itself and loaded itself with debt to enable it to do so. They'll be the next Bolton Wanderers, mark my words!

I'll never forget and would also only partially forgive too, irrespective. I do however feel that the past 2 years, Mowbray and Waggott to their credit have played their part in this, have shown signs of significant change IMO.

As a fervent and passionate supporter of BRFC, home and away for 54 years, I'm starting to look forward to my football once again and I've really missed that feeling something rotten. I'm just asking if most of my fellow supporters could perhaps consider that I am possibly correct and in so doing, rekindle their own warm feelings about the Club similarly.

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

 

That's some hyperbole there pal...sorry to say I would swap places with Burnley anyday.The Venkys tenure of this Club has overall been an unmitigated disaster.

Never forget.

[rigger]

2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

 

That's some hyperbole there pal...sorry to say I would swap places with Burnley anyday.The Venkys tenure of this Club has overall been an unmitigated disaster.

Never forget.

When you say you would swap places with Burnley, is that because at the moment they are relatively successful. Or would you also swap with say Bolton or Blackpool ? 

[Blue blood]

11 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I agree wholeheartedly with point no. 2. With regards to appropriate and empowered (to a degree) governance, If that were allied to the levels of cash Venkys would appear to be prepared to lavish on The Club, now that they allegedly, are the sole owners, would that not be the best possible outcome, promotion or not?

The debt is never going to disappear, the Rao's would be stupid to do that but it isn't a burden on the Club either, as is so often painted. It's a far better position to be in than The Dingles, where their new owners have paid effectively bugger all for the 'privilege' of owning the bastards and instead have concluded a leveraged buy out, where BFC has effectively bought itself and loaded itself with debt to enable it to do so. They'll be the next Bolton Wanderers, mark my words!

I'll never forget and would also only partially forgive too, irrespective. I do however feel that the past 2 years, Mowbray and Waggott to their credit have played their part in this, have shown signs of significant change IMO.

As a fervent and passionate supporter of BRFC, home and away for 54 years, I'm starting to look forward to my football once again and I've really missed that feeling something rotten. I'm just asking if most of my fellow supporters could perhaps consider that I am possibly correct and in so doing, rekindle their own warm feelings about the Club similarly.

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

Always willing to listen to another Rovers fans views 🙂 And yes it is much nicer looking at matches and the club now than under Kean etc. 

My big issue is that the previous bad times have, I think, influenced us so much that we think that these current times are good, when they are in many ways still a painful shambles. Operarionally I think it's still amature hour.

Likewise comparing to Burnley or Bolton is of limited use. Is that the bar and what we should be aiming to be above? Again it may be better but not by much and isn't good. That's Venkys legacy - accepting poor situations because it isn't rubbish. 

Is our best chance under Venkys run well? Honestly I don't see them pumping in the money. I could be wrong but I thought stadium/pitch stuff didn't count to the FFP costs and Ewoods looking grim. We haven't spent any transfer fee on a defender in 3 years. And operationally they definitely aren't running us well. Zero accountability for the manager, his mate as boss, managers all coming from the same agency, delayed decisions from Pune. Venkys don't give us much of a chance because they aren't really chucking money at it, but much more crucially are operationally horrific. It's like fighting with our hands tied behind our backs at times with them, so not sure it's our best shot or a good shot at all. 

The last 2 years is an interesting arbitrary place to put the line in the sand (why there?) but even so. Delayed decisions from Pune especially with regards to contracts seems to still be prevalent, a mate as the managers boss still exists, still no dosh spent on defenders. It still to me doesn't seem like any lessons have been learned. 

Then there's the fact TM is still here. We are never going to get promoted with him, it's Groundhog Day as we never quite make playoffs and always choke when we are near if. That alone might get a decent owner questioning a need for change. So yeah, still not impressed by Venkys ownership. 

I don't think I am unrealistic in expectations for Rovers. I'm not asking for the world or even (though I hope for it) promotion. But a bit of professionalism and competence would revolutionise how I see the club. Sadly I can't see that in our owners of whom the only defence seems to be it's not as crap as before. 

 

[darrenrover]

13 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Always willing to listen to another Rovers fans views 🙂 And yes it is much nicer looking at matches and the club now than under Kean etc. 

My big issue is that the previous bad times have, I think, influenced us so much that we think that these current times are good, when they are in many ways still a painful shambles. Operarionally I think it's still amature hour.

Likewise comparing to Burnley or Bolton is of limited use. Is that the bar and what we should be aiming to be above? Again it may be better but not by much and isn't good. That's Venkys legacy - accepting poor situations because it isn't rubbish. 

Is our best chance under Venkys run well? Honestly I don't see them pumping in the money. I could be wrong but I thought stadium/pitch stuff didn't count to the FFP costs and Ewoods looking grim. We haven't spent any transfer fee on a defender in 3 years. And operationally they definitely aren't running us well. Zero accountability for the manager, his mate as boss, managers all coming from the same agency, delayed decisions from Pune. Venkys don't give us much of a chance because they aren't really chucking money at it, but much more crucially are operationally horrific. It's like fighting with our hands tied behind our backs at times with them, so not sure it's our best shot or a good shot at all. 

The last 2 years is an interesting arbitrary place to put the line in the sand (why there?) but even so. Delayed decisions from Pune especially with regards to contracts seems to still be prevalent, a mate as the managers boss still exists, still no dosh spent on defenders. It still to me doesn't seem like any lessons have been learned. 

Then there's the fact TM is still here. We are never going to get promoted with him, it's Groundhog Day as we never quite make playoffs and always choke when we are near if. That alone might get a decent owner questioning a need for change. So yeah, still not impressed by Venkys ownership. 

I don't think I am unrealistic in expectations for Rovers. I'm not asking for the world or even (though I hope for it) promotion. But a bit of professionalism and competence would revolutionise how I see the club. Sadly I can't see that in our owners of whom the only defence seems to be it's not as crap as before. 

 

Firstly I'd like to say thanks Blue Blood for a considered and courteous response. I'll try my best to reciprocate.

I've thought long and hard about matters, carried out some lengthy and detailed research (which I'll keep to myself), sat back and thought about things, in addition to carrying out some in depth discussions with my close, Rovers daft mates of many years. It's only then that I've formed an opinion, as to how we could all play a part in re-invigorating and perhaps restoring it too, to its' former glories.

Firstly, what's the likelihood of someone trotting along from Tockholes or Wilpshire, with sufficient brass to both buy the Club and provide it with sufficient capital on an annual basis to both sustain it at a level that we would deem to be acceptable and provide a reasonable, twice annually, transfer kitty? Answer, zilch.

Secondly, We probably all agree that Rovers' local governance has been substandard at best and downright embarrassing at worst, during the past 10 years. Wouldn't it be great if that situation could be addressed somehow and backed with the levels of cash that we're now 'grateful' for but The Rao's appear to find nothing more than 'arse pocket change'?

Create a vision, a strategy, direction, a plan and measures of success (or failure) which everybody, could sign up to and benchmark against. Create ambition most importantly!

Thirdly, Complete re-engagement with our supporters (customers), the lifeblood of the football club and include every last one of them (us) in helping us achieve whatever it is we deserve. We're not 'entitled' as supporters of other clubs sometimes label us but having tasted success not too many years ago, we've had a taste and yearn for more.

Yeh, it may be a dream but sometimes if you work hard enough at it, sometimes they do become a reality. Today is one such day for me on a personal level and perhaps why I thought I'd share my dream for Blackburn Rovers Football Club. Our eldest son's partner has just been induced into labour as I type this and hopefully the 6th generation of the darrenrover, Rovers daft, family, will today enter the world and be our first grandchild. I'm absolutely beside myself with emotion and excitement as you can probably imagine, I sincerely hope it's not the only family dream to come to fruition in 2021.

WE ARE The Rovers!!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Until our owners get THEIR act together and themselves re-engage on all points you have touched upon then this Club and its supporters will remain between a rock and a hard place darrenrover.

'Vision,strategy,direction and planning' all have to come from the very top,some decade down the line we are still waiting,nay,hoping in vain....

The great question still  remains unanswered: WHAT DO VENKYS WANT FROM/FOR ROVERS?

[darrenrover]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

When you say you would swap places with Burnley, is that because at the moment they are relatively successful. Or would you also swap with say Bolton or Blackpool ? 

I'd rather dance with the devil than even consider swapping anything with that lot. They won The League 60 years ago and what else?

Moreover, I'm more than satisfied with 2 lots of 4 fingers and a thumb, thanks very much!

Fecking Mormon owners, jeez, £90 million debt laden leveraged buy out, Garlick, Kilby and co. pissing themselves as they sip their Margaritas in The Bahamas, Dyche soon on his bike...........ain't it great!!!

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

PS: Has Pendle Hill been terraced yet?

[Blue blood]

6 hours ago, darrenrover said:

Firstly I'd like to say thanks Blue Blood for a considered and courteous response. I'll try my best to reciprocate.

I've thought long and hard about matters, carried out some lengthy and detailed research (which I'll keep to myself), sat back and thought about things, in addition to carrying out some in depth discussions with my close, Rovers daft mates of many years. It's only then that I've formed an opinion, as to how we could all play a part in re-invigorating and perhaps restoring it too, to its' former glories.

Firstly, what's the likelihood of someone trotting along from Tockholes or Wilpshire, with sufficient brass to both buy the Club and provide it with sufficient capital on an annual basis to both sustain it at a level that we would deem to be acceptable and provide a reasonable, twice annually, transfer kitty? Answer, zilch.

Secondly, We probably all agree that Rovers' local governance has been substandard at best and downright embarrassing at worst, during the past 10 years. Wouldn't it be great if that situation could be addressed somehow and backed with the levels of cash that we're now 'grateful' for but The Rao's appear to find nothing more than 'arse pocket change'?

Create a vision, a strategy, direction, a plan and measures of success (or failure) which everybody, could sign up to and benchmark against. Create ambition most importantly!

Thirdly, Complete re-engagement with our supporters (customers), the lifeblood of the football club and include every last one of them (us) in helping us achieve whatever it is we deserve. We're not 'entitled' as supporters of other clubs sometimes label us but having tasted success not too many years ago, we've had a taste and yearn for more.

Yeh, it may be a dream but sometimes if you work hard enough at it, sometimes they do become a reality. Today is one such day for me on a personal level and perhaps why I thought I'd share my dream for Blackburn Rovers Football Club. Our eldest son's partner has just been induced into labour as I type this and hopefully the 6th generation of the darrenrover, Rovers daft, family, will today enter the world and be our first grandchild. I'm absolutely beside myself with emotion and excitement as you can probably imagine, I sincerely hope it's not the only family dream to come to fruition in 2021.

WE ARE The Rovers!!

Hope all goes well for your son and their partner. 

Can't say I disagree with a single thing in your post - a well thought out process of recovery imo. 

The problem is for me that Venkys seem utterly Incapable of point 2. There is no vision, strategy, nous. Heck even getting basics right like the timeliness of budget setting would be a huge step in the right direction. Until that happens the plan really won't work. They hasn't been any indication in the last 10 years that they will get this right, so I am not optimistic. 

With that in mind we're trapped in a Venkys nightmare, as agree with point 1 and would add Venkys aren't interested in selling to grey knights ejthrr. So we are dependent on them, with no way out and very little hope for better. It's a horrible place for us to be in. 

[Blue blood]

6 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Until our owners get THEIR act together and themselves re-engage on all points you have touched upon then this Club and its supporters will remain between a rock and a hard place darrenrover.

'Vision,strategy,direction and planning' all have to come from the very top,some decade down the line we are still waiting,nay,hoping in vain....

The great question still  remains unanswered: WHAT DO VENKYS WANT FROM/FOR ROVERS?

 Brilliant post and a much more concise and eloquent summary of the situation than I managed. 

That's the £150 million pound question isn't it. My view, from all I have read and having spoke with a number of Indian friends, is saving face/hiding the skeletons in the closet from being viewed. There's no more plausible explanation for them both continuing to fund us and prevent administration whilst at the same time not doing anything to do with the club properly. 

Problem is with this is that it means we are stuck with them for a very, very long time. 

[StevenSK]

Is this the house they own? Up for sale again.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gary-nevilles-former-bolton-mansion-19832692

Edited February 13, 2021 by StevenSK