Venkys - Welcome or Not?

[superniko]

38 minutes ago, rigger said:

Who are you to say how other people should think ?

He can think what he wants, doesn’t mean it’s not allowed criticism or putting in its/his place 

[AllRoverAsia]

Is this the chancer who a few years back looked for and got lots of publicity for travelling all the way from California to Ewood to watch a game?

[blue_and_white]

For 10 years now since relegation, our wage budget has been about 150-200% our club income. If you don't have rich owners, that can't happen, running it at even 80% is pushing it.

So if Venkys sold the club to say the Rovers Trust for 1p tomorrow, the first thing the Trust would have to do is work on halving our wage bill. And you generally get what you pay for in football, so that would leave us struggling to stay in the Championship.

Obviously Venkys made the biggest mistake in Rovers history swapping out Williams and Allardyce for Anderson and Kean. And for those of us who were Allardyce fans, I think we've more reason to be livid than most as our argument was relegation for a club Rovers size is a financial death sentence, so its insane to take such a risk in the name of pretty football.

But you can't turn back time. Without Venkys 10 years ago we might still be a PL club, but without them now we might be a League 1 club, so I just think we have to forgive them.

[matt83]

Never forgive never forget. 

[tomphil]

I really don't care if they come or not what i bother about is it turning into a charade like a visit from the royal family.

Just come, watch the games and go again no need for a fanfair outside of the club.  Those inside can do all the grovelling they want. 

[Oldgregg86]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

I really don't care if they come or not what i bother about is it turning into a charade like a visit from the royal family.

Just come, watch the games and go again no need for a fanfair outside of the club.  Those inside can do all the grovelling they want. 

Aslong as it’s deep into winter 😏☃️

[tomphil]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

Aslong as it’s deep into winter 😏☃️

Now if they'd turned up in a ford escort like Jack that wouldn't have happened  😆

The sickening piece of propaganda, set up by Anderson, clearly to be beamed back to India spectacularly backfired. 

[Gav]

9 hours ago, blue_and_white said:

But you can't turn back time. Without Venkys 10 years ago we might still be a PL club, but without them now we might be a League 1 club, so I just think we have to forgive them.

I'd take that right now, I'd take league 2 also to get rid of them.

This club will never recover whilst we have absent owners who couldn't give a toss what goes on thousands of miles away in Lancashire. To many fans, putting £30m in a season now seems like a great gesture, it hardly scratches the books of a billionaire, they won't even notice it, its that insignificant in the grand scheme of things to them. 

With that being the case, why have they sold the training ground? Why are they now emptying the academy of all the young talent, many of whom are not ready for Championship football? What are they going to sell next?

I like the current manager, but he was way down the pecking order reading between the lines. He's been given peanuts to strengthen his squad after all the departures in the last few years, its worrying times right now.

We need them out, then the club can start to recover, we have a very good fan base that could get behind a new local owner, or a new owner/owners that actually have a plan and want whats best for Blackburn Rover, the town and its supporters. 

 

[Upside Down]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

I'd take that right now, I'd take league 2 also to get rid of them.

This club will never recover whilst we have absent owners who couldn't give a toss what goes on thousands of miles away in Lancashire. To many fans, putting £30m in a season now seems like a great gesture, it hardly scratches the books of a billionaire, they won't even notice it, its that insignificant in the grand scheme of things to them. 

With that being the case, why have they sold the training ground? Why are they now emptying the academy of all the young talent, many of whom are not ready for Championship football? What are they going to sell next?

I like the current manager, but he was way down the pecking order reading between the lines. He's been given peanuts to strengthen his squad after all the departures in the last few years, its worrying times right now.

We need them out, then the club can start to recover, we have a very good fan base that could get behind a new local owner, or a new owner/owners that actually have a plan and want whats best for Blackburn Rover, the town and its supporters. 

 

100% I would take that anytime if it meant getting rid of these scum.

The way things are going we'll be in League 2 with Venkys. We have nothing to lose if they go.

[Claytons Left Boot]

11 hours ago, blue_and_white said:

For 10 years now since relegation, our wage budget has been about 150-200% our club income. If you don't have rich owners, that can't happen, running it at even 80% is pushing it.

So if Venkys sold the club to say the Rovers Trust for 1p tomorrow, the first thing the Trust would have to do is work on halving our wage bill. And you generally get what you pay for in football, so that would leave us struggling to stay in the Championship.

Obviously Venkys made the biggest mistake in Rovers history swapping out Williams and Allardyce for Anderson and Kean. And for those of us who were Allardyce fans, I think we've more reason to be livid than most as our argument was relegation for a club Rovers size is a financial death sentence, so its insane to take such a risk in the name of pretty football.

But you can't turn back time. Without Venkys 10 years ago we might still be a PL club, but without them now we might be a League 1 club, so I just think we have to forgive them.

Some of what you say, I agree with, in particular the wages to turnover ratio. In your hypothetical situation, though, the Trust could also look to replacing Waggott and employing a more competent CEO with a remit to growing the fan base and, most importantly, the number of season ticket holders. In short, to increase revenues. It wouldn’t just be getting the wages down to a more manageable level.

Clubs of a general similar size to us like Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool have all recently been close to folding but have managed to find new owners. Blackpool and Wigan have also managed to come up from League 1 and Bolton will no doubt achieve that feat within the next few seasons. 

It can be done and I would certainly take a relegation if it meant getting rid of Venky’s. One step back to take two steps forward. Nothing will change whilst they remain in charge.
 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

I really don't care if they come or not what i bother about is it turning into a charade like a visit from the royal family.

 

Them Silver RAJA Rollers eh...who could ever forget the sheer bling of it!

 

Totally apathetic if they visit their baby on life support or not.I want enthusiastic and results driven owners running our Club,owners who care and want nothing but the very best for our proud and ancient footballing institution.

Been a shit twelve years under their tenure.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[blue_and_white]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I'd take that right now, I'd take league 2 also to get rid of them.

This club will never recover whilst we have absent owners who couldn't give a toss what goes on thousands of miles away in Lancashire. To many fans, putting £30m in a season now seems like a great gesture, it hardly scratches the books of a billionaire, they won't even notice it, its that insignificant in the grand scheme of things to them. 

With that being the case, why have they sold the training ground? Why are they now emptying the academy of all the young talent, many of whom are not ready for Championship football? What are they going to sell next?

I like the current manager, but he was way down the pecking order reading between the lines. He's been given peanuts to strengthen his squad after all the departures in the last few years, its worrying times right now.

We need them out, then the club can start to recover, we have a very good fan base that could get behind a new local owner, or a new owner/owners that actually have a plan and want whats best for Blackburn Rover, the town and its supporters. 

 

Hmm are you sure? Our brief stay in the Championship in 1999-2001 was fun because we had a top team that racked up win after win, in front of 20,000 crowds. This time round the Championship isn't so much fun because we're stuck here with an average team with average results, and as a result with 13,000 crowds. Similar thing with League One, the 2017/18 season was fun because again we were destined for promotion, so had 13,000 crowds (and the best away following in the division). Stick us down there without Venkys and with less than half our current wage bill, we'd struggle to get back out and god knows what our crowds would drop to, 8,000 would be my guess.

In terms of Venkys financial support, personally I think it is quite a big deal even with their size. Couldn't find anything on their current turnover (their Wikipedia page barely says anything and their website looks like it was built by a 12 year old). But found an old article from 2010 saying the VH Group then had 28 companies, an annual turnover of £1 billion, and a profit of £100m. So if you're on the VH Group board, couldn't give a monkeys about English football, and see 1 of these 28 companies contributing about 2% of the group turnover, but eating into 20% of the group profits, you'd be saying offload it asap.

I don't know enough about finance to know what happens when you want to sell/close a company with £200m debt, or how the FA/UK government might get involved. But either way the fact that Venkys haven't even hinted at doing that, and as I say are still funding a squad wage bill that far outstrips our revenue and absorbing the subsequent losses, has to been seen as a credit to them IMO.

 

[lraC]

12 hours ago, blue_and_white said:

For 10 years now since relegation, our wage budget has been about 150-200% our club income. If you don't have rich owners, that can't happen, running it at even 80% is pushing it.

So if Venkys sold the club to say the Rovers Trust for 1p tomorrow, the first thing the Trust would have to do is work on halving our wage bill. And you generally get what you pay for in football, so that would leave us struggling to stay in the Championship.

Obviously Venkys made the biggest mistake in Rovers history swapping out Williams and Allardyce for Anderson and Kean. And for those of us who were Allardyce fans, I think we've more reason to be livid than most as our argument was relegation for a club Rovers size is a financial death sentence, so its insane to take such a risk in the name of pretty football.

But you can't turn back time. Without Venkys 10 years ago we might still be a PL club, but without them now we might be a League 1 club, so I just think we have to forgive them.

Maybe that’s the exact reason for not forgiving them. For owners to take away our premier league status and maybe at the same time, condemn us to never getting back, is one hell of a hammer blow. 

[lraC]

12 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Some of what you say, I agree with, in particular the wages to turnover ratio. In your hypothetical situation, though, the Trust could also look to replacing Waggott and employing a more competent CEO with a remit to growing the fan base and, most importantly, the number of season ticket holders. In short, to increase revenues. It wouldn’t just be getting the wages down to a more manageable level.

Clubs of a general similar size to us like Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool have all recently been close to folding but have managed to find new owners. Blackpool and Wigan have also managed to come up from League 1 and Bolton will no doubt achieve that feat within the next few seasons. 

It can be done and I would certainly take a relegation if it meant getting rid of Venky’s. One step back to take two steps forward. Nothing will change whilst they remain in charge.
 

We thrived at championship level long before Venky’s and will do so again without them.

Granted we make not make it into the prem, but I doubt we will with them either.

[JHRover]

Seems to be an assumption or suggestion that it is either Venkys and their money, or no money and the club has to be self-sufficient and deal with all the issues that comes from that.

Of course there is another option - getting new owners who want to invest and develop the club.

Then we get the 'yeah I'm sure there are loads of rich people out there wanting to buy a 2nd division club losing money'

Well we had all this bollocks when Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool were going bust under previous ownership and all found new owners and have bounced back. We've had countless takeovers across the divisions in the last 10 years at non-PL clubs.

So it doesn't have to be Venkys or bust. It can be someone different to Venkys, perhaps not with as deep pockets but deep enough to fund a loss making club and more importantly people who actually want to be here and want the club to succeed.

The new reliance on the academy I don't think is a Venky strategy. I don't think the owners care enough to take an interest in such things. I just think it is the inevitable consequence of their cost-cutting that the academy grows in importance.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Loon's out, the end.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Seems to be an assumption or suggestion that it is either Venkys and their money, or no money and the club has to be self-sufficient and deal with all the issues that comes from that.

Of course there is another option - getting new owners who want to invest and develop the club.

Then we get the 'yeah I'm sure there are loads of rich people out there wanting to buy a 2nd division club losing money'

Well we had all this bollocks when Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool were going bust under previous ownership and all found new owners and have bounced back. We've had countless takeovers across the divisions in the last 10 years at non-PL clubs.

So it doesn't have to be Venkys or bust. It can be someone different to Venkys, perhaps not with as deep pockets but deep enough to fund a loss making club and more importantly people who actually want to be here and want the club to succeed.

The new reliance on the academy I don't think is a Venky strategy. I don't think the owners care enough to take an interest in such things. I just think it is the inevitable consequence of their cost-cutting that the academy grows in importance.

If the club ever end up in the ‘hour of need’ scenario, there are plenty who simply would step up and sort it. A few short weeks ago Derby looked deemed, but are still going.

Another era granted, but I remember taking part in a sponsored run around the Ewood pitch to raise funds, when the future looked bleak. That was at least 45 years ago and we have been crowned champions of England since.

It’s a funny old game.

[blue_and_white]

47 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Some of what you say, I agree with, in particular the wages to turnover ratio. In your hypothetical situation, though, the Trust could also look to replacing Waggott and employing a more competent CEO with a remit to growing the fan base and, most importantly, the number of season ticket holders. In short, to increase revenues. It wouldn’t just be getting the wages down to a more manageable level.

Clubs of a general similar size to us like Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool have all recently been close to folding but have managed to find new owners. Blackpool and Wigan have also managed to come up from League 1 and Bolton will no doubt achieve that feat within the next few seasons. 

It can be done and I would certainly take a relegation if it meant getting rid of Venky’s. One step back to take two steps forward. Nothing will change whilst they remain in charge.
 

True but IMO that's where Rovers are fighting a losing battle.

Rovers' future hinges on getting Blackburn's Asian population to matches. Every year that isn't happening (in large numbers, know there are some that go), our fanbase is decreasing. Without Mill Hill and Darwen I shudder to think what our attendances would be these days.

There's also the gloryhunter effect that takes its toll on us more than most clubs. We've Man Utd, Man City and Liverpool practically on our doorstep and if anyone still plays a bit of 5-a-side in the area (the Soccerdome in Guide for example), you don't see many kids running around in Rovers shirts.

I genuinely think we're a League One size club now without Venkys, that's just the way things have gone in the area.

[Gav]

9 minutes ago, blue_and_white said:

True but IMO that's where Rovers are fighting a losing battle.

Rovers' future hinges on getting Blackburn's Asian population to matches. Every year that isn't happening (in large numbers, know there are some that go), our fanbase is decreasing. Without Mill Hill and Darwen I shudder to think what our attendances would be these days.

There's also the gloryhunter effect that takes its toll on us more than most clubs. We've Man Utd, Man City and Liverpool practically on our doorstep and if anyone still plays a bit of 5-a-side in the area (the Soccerdome in Guide for example), you don't see many kids running around in Rovers shirts.

I genuinely think we're a League One size club now without Venkys, that's just the way things have gone in the area.

With the greatest of respect this just isn’t true, where are you getting this stuff from?

We've never had a strong Asian following and never will have, but been in business since 1875. We had regular gates of 5000 in 80’s, football didn’t start in 1992. We have a healthy fan base that would increase with success on the pitch and our support doesn’t only come from Mill Hill and Darwen. 

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Gav

[JHRover]

When the club and fans believe our catchment area and potential ends with BWDBC then we might as well give up.

Unfortunately that's precisely where the goons at the club are going. I won't accept that though and hope nobody else does. We have a huge catchment area across Lancashire. Just because they can't be arsed tapping into it doesn't mean it isn't there.

[islander200]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

I'd take that right now, I'd take league 2 also to get rid of them.

This club will never recover whilst we have absent owners who couldn't give a toss what goes on thousands of miles away in Lancashire. To many fans, putting £30m in a season now seems like a great gesture, it hardly scratches the books of a billionaire, they won't even notice it, its that insignificant in the grand scheme of things to them. 

With that being the case, why have they sold the training ground? Why are they now emptying the academy of all the young talent, many of whom are not ready for Championship football? What are they going to sell next?

I like the current manager, but he was way down the pecking order reading between the lines. He's been given peanuts to strengthen his squad after all the departures in the last few years, its worrying times right now.

We need them out, then the club can start to recover, we have a very good fan base that could get behind a new local owner, or a new owner/owners that actually have a plan and want whats best for Blackburn Rover, the town and its supporters. 

 

Selling the training ground was obviously for FFP purposes.

The ground was sold to themselves, unfortunately they own us so they owned the training ground anyway.

 

[miqaayil]

The club is nothing more than a financial institution to write overseas spending on their revenues for tax and other reason with more assets slowly chipped away stone by stone...

 

i am hoping and even praying at times to get back to PL, but realistically i know venky want us mid table Championship club, which in their heads is a sweet spot that does not shine spotlight on them, a.k.a flying under radar...they will not sell as that brings out skeletons in closet...so basically its a slow death...

 

God bless

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

I'd take that right now, I'd take league 2 also to get rid of them.

This club will never recover whilst we have absent owners who couldn't give a toss what goes on thousands of miles away in Lancashire. To many fans, putting £30m in a season now seems like a great gesture, it hardly scratches the books of a billionaire, they won't even notice it, its that insignificant in the grand scheme of things to them. 

With that being the case, why have they sold the training ground? Why are they now emptying the academy of all the young talent, many of whom are not ready for Championship football? What are they going to sell next?

I like the current manager, but he was way down the pecking order reading between the lines. He's been given peanuts to strengthen his squad after all the departures in the last few years, its worrying times right now.

We need them out, then the club can start to recover, we have a very good fan base that could get behind a new local owner, or a new owner/owners that actually have a plan and want whats best for Blackburn Rover, the town and its supporters. 

 

 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Seems to be an assumption or suggestion that it is either Venkys and their money, or no money and the club has to be self-sufficient and deal with all the issues that comes from that.

Of course there is another option - getting new owners who want to invest and develop the club.

Then we get the 'yeah I'm sure there are loads of rich people out there wanting to buy a 2nd division club losing money'

Well we had all this bollocks when Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool were going bust under previous ownership and all found new owners and have bounced back. We've had countless takeovers across the divisions in the last 10 years at non-PL clubs.

So it doesn't have to be Venkys or bust. It can be someone different to Venkys, perhaps not with as deep pockets but deep enough to fund a loss making club and more importantly people who actually want to be here and want the club to succeed.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Two top posts showing how Venkys are utterly the problem and not at all the solution. 

A few things to add:

1) Can we move on from what Venkys have done? I mean they've destroyed a premiership club, loaded debt onto the club and halved the fan base. Is that forgivable?

2) Maybe if there was some regret and things had moved on, perhaps there could be a debate on foegivwness. (It's still too much in my view.) However they clearly still don't care at all about us - evidenced by letting TM have the entirety of the last half of the season, player contracts all running down, state of Ewood, Waggot, to name.a few. It's not just a debate on past crimes - it's still ongoing. To me this negates any discussion of forgiveness. How can you even think of this when they still are harming you? 

3) We're slowly sinking under Venkys. Established prem club, relegation candidates and relegated. One of the bigger Championship teams. Now a middling championship team - who haven't even made the playoffs in their reign. The trajectory is all one way and will continue that way. 

What's there to like? 

[islander200]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Seems to be an assumption or suggestion that it is either Venkys and their money, or no money and the club has to be self-sufficient and deal with all the issues that comes from that.

Of course there is another option - getting new owners who want to invest and develop the club.

Then we get the 'yeah I'm sure there are loads of rich people out there wanting to buy a 2nd division club losing money'

Well we had all this bollocks when Bolton, Wigan and Blackpool were going bust under previous ownership and all found new owners and have bounced back. We've had countless takeovers across the divisions in the last 10 years at non-PL clubs.

So it doesn't have to be Venkys or bust. It can be someone different to Venkys, perhaps not with as deep pockets but deep enough to fund a loss making club and more importantly people who actually want to be here and want the club to succeed.

The new reliance on the academy I don't think is a Venky strategy. I don't think the owners care enough to take an interest in such things. I just think it is the inevitable consequence of their cost-cutting that the academy grows in importance.

You are correct that Wigan and Bolton got new owners but those owners will struggle to take those clubs any higher than championship football.

You are 1 who wants money spent every single season and run a big squad with similar quality throughout it, that costs. 

Wigan newly promoted and fair play to the guy who bought them out and saved them from admin but have they spent a transfer fee this summer? 

We spent money this season.We didn't sell our star player and one of our only sources of goals  when he can leave for free in the summer.

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, islander200 said:

You are correct that Wigan and Bolton got new owners but those owners will struggle to take those clubs any higher than championship football.

You are 1 who wants money spent every single season and run a big squad with similar quality throughout it, that costs. 

Wigan newly promoted and fair play to the guy who bought them out and saved them from admin but have they spent a transfer fee this summer? 

We spent money this season.We didn't sell our star player and one of our only sources of goals  when he can leave for free in the summer.

 

It's this sort of lunacy and inefficiency that has happened throughout the Venkys reign that causes them losses to be bigger than they need to be.