Rovers v Birmingham-Saturday ,December 15th

[Husky]

35 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Piss poor diabolical suicidal 2 minutes when both full backs went missing cost us victory against a static Birmingham team who were clearly out kff by the northern weather. Btw what the hell was Raya doing giving away the ball and conceding a stupid penalty ?

They literally did look like they didn't want to be there. Heads dropped - after 46mins they would have taken a 2-0 defeat and no frostbite or trench-foot. But . . .This is Rovers.. . .

[OldEwoodBlue]

4 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

It wasn't Breretons fault that Raya had a brain storm ....

Never said it was

I was talking about Graham and how we have nobody even close to being able to play his role when Tony takes him off... and then we chuck points away as a result... over and over again.

[den9112]

3 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Brereton looked like a lost schoolboy when he came on.

He looked like a player who knew were he wanted the ball putting.Not his fault if is team mates don't see it.

[booth]

27 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

I’m not convinced that Mowbray or his tactics made Raya come charging out and give away a ridiculous penalty, nor made Bell and then Evans give the ball away cheaply and Smallwood completely sell himself instead of covering round. 

And, for however poorly Brereton did when he came on, he too had no effect on those things either. And without them we’d have cruised to a comfortable 2-0 victory - maybe Mowbray should get credit for coaching us into such a commanding position in the first place 

Mowbray picked them. Mowbray decided to take a gamble on a young lad instead of strengthening the defence.

Loads of people said that the players you have mentioned needed competition or replacing with championship level players but Mowbray was happy to stick with those that got us promoted.

This is all fair enough if this season is just to stay in the division and strengthen next season for a real push. Got to question the signing of Brereton though.

[Ossydave]

50 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Odd angle to come at considering all the other things that went on today 

Numb people will sadly make an issue of the price tag, and quite frankly be dick heads

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Franky said:

AGAIN

Been saying it for months. He must be kept on the pitch or we have nobody else who can win balls up top and get us playing in their half. Ball just ends up constantly in our half with everyone getting sucked deep. It happens time and time and time again.

Brereton looked like a lost schoolboy when he came on.

Graham was holding his back before he went off. To suggest that though was the reason for dropped points is nonsense as we were comfortable and Birmingham hardly threatened. The game turned on Raya's stupidity which gave Birmingham a foothold but as importantly a huge lift. Without Raya's idiocy I'm convinced we would have seen the game out comfortably irrespective of who came on or went off.

[JHRover]

Just had an hour in the bath to thaw out.

Absolutely no surprise to see us drop 2 points there. Once Armstrong's goal went in i was counting down the minutes as I fully expected at least 1 goal to come for them and knew if they got it before 85 minutes the chances were they would get another. 

Like so many other opposing teams they'll probably be sat on their bus home wondering how they managed to get what they did out of a game that should have been dead and buried.

I'm personally sick and fed up with it. Time after time after time we throw points away from winning positions by conceding goals from often ridiculous scenarios. If it isn't one of our players dropping a clanger its some wide open kamikaze defending. The ease with which opposition teams score against us is shocking.

We were never, ever, ever going to see that game out at 2-0 or extend our lead. I would have put my life savings on Birmingham scoring at some point.

At 2-0 up at home against a poor side and looking comfortable I should be sat in the stands relaxed and enjoying us seeing the game out, yet sadly having experienced it so many times before I cannot feel anything but anxiety and nerves as I know a goal will come and at best we will end up hanging on for dear life camped in our penalty area. 

We did it more often than not last season in League One, but got away with it against poor sides. This season when you're up against far better players we are getting punished. 

I'm not convinced it is a personnel issue and I'm not convinced heaping blame on individuals is right. I am convinced that the team is set up or instructed to sit back on what they have when leading in games and we haven't got what it takes either quality wise or tactically to do that effectively. 

We'll now have a week of feeling sorry for ourselves that we've got 4 tough games coming up but we need to get some points out of those having chucked them away against the likes of Birmingham, Rotherham and Wigan recently.

[Husky]

5 minutes ago, den9112 said:

He looked like a player who knew were he wanted the ball putting.Not his fault if is team mates don't see it.

Haven't seen any replays, though he did miss a couple of chances didn't he?  Though I think the tight angle one across the goal was flagged for offside. The first one though  . . 6 yards out? . . . ?

[Ossydave]

Beggars human belief that people are blaming Brereton for the result 

Guess what, teams up their tempo second half when losing 

This is why I hate Ewood Park with a passion, our fans 

[den9112]

Stiil got to be in the postition to miss them either way

 

[Miller11]

Bit of a debacle today. While it’s seemingly the done thing to try and identify a scapegoat (Raya would easily take that crown today), doing so means we don’t address the bigger issues.

Our defence isn’t good enough at the moment. We have no strength in depth or competition for places, aside from our interchangeable left backs. If we get an injury it usually means a midfielder will be played out of position. Our centre backs are more renowned for their ball playing ability then their defensive attributes. We need a proper old fashioned centre back, no frills, just defends.  

Thing is it was blindingly obvious we needed to strengthen in this area - but when have Venky’s ever sanctioned spending on defenders? Only Scott Dann during those silly early days springs to mind. Everyone else has cost nothing/next to nothing. I heard something when Anderson’s nose was still firmly in the trough, that they wouldn’t be heavily investing in defensive players because you could get a better return on exciting, attacking players. Obviously I’m paraphrasing, and no doubt many will shoot this down as conspiracy theory... but we have raked in huge fees from defenders and never adequately reinvested in that area.

The Evans and Smallwood partnership isn’t good enough. We have far better options. Reed did more in central midfield today than the two of them, despite being played on the wing.

Our full backs don’t get anywhere near enough protection, especially when Armstrong is on the pitch.

Graham is quality. His movement for his goal was top drawer. Sadly we create so little for him... look what happens with a dangerous ball into the box. We have an unusually wide pitch, and it’s no coincidence that we’ve always done well when we have good wingers over the years. We are far too narrow now.

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

Without Raya's idiocy I'm convinced we would have seen the game out comfortably irrespective of who came on or went off.

I'm not. Raya's idiocy was no surprise but had he not done that I'm sure we would have found a way to let them back in elsewhere. Winning a game comfortably isn't something we do sadly, at best it is hanging on to a one goal lead. 

[Husky]

2 minutes ago, den9112 said:

Stiil got to be in the postition to miss them either way

 

Well he was playing as a striker. FINALLY!

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, den9112 said:

Stiil got to be in the postition to miss them either way

No good getting into the position though if you don't score even Chris Brown got in the position occasionally.

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not. Raya's idiocy was no surprise but had he not done that I'm sure we would have found a way to let them back in elsewhere. Winning a game comfortably isn't something we do sadly, at best it is hanging on to a one goal lead. 

Yep. You can look to individual players when it happens as a one off, but when it's a repeated occurance then it's an overall mentality and coaching problem. Worryingly it's one that's, imo, existed from day one under Mowbray but has spent a long time unaddressed because in the dregs of League 1 it just wasn't necessary to be particularly good defensively.

[den9112]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

No good getting into the position though if you don't score even Chris Brown got in the position occasionally.

When the lad starts and completes x amount of games only then will i compare him to Chris Brown

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not. Raya's idiocy was no surprise but had he not done that I'm sure we would have found a way to let them back in elsewhere. Winning a game comfortably isn't something we do sadly, at best it is hanging on to a one goal lead. 

I honestly haven't felt as comfortable for a while whilst winning as I did today. Birmingham offered nothing, they looked flat and seemed to lack any belief they could have got anything out of the game. I'm convinced that if Raya hadn't had a brainstorm we would have seen the game out.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, Husky said:

Haven't seen any replays, though he did miss a couple of chances didn't he?  Though I think the tight angle one across the goal was flagged for offside. The first one though  . . 6 yards out? . . . ?

In fairness there were at least two defenders in front of him. One of them blocked his shot. 

It's baffling to me that he is being singled out. He had a few decent touches and I don't recall him doing anything bad. 

We looked a combination of lazy and nervous at 2-0 up. Lenihan played one absolutely shocking pass to Mulgrew. Now if Brereton did that, there would be uproar on here. Nyambe and Bell lost the ball a number of times, they were also caught out of position. People need to ask themselves why are they singling Brereton out. It seems some fans on here focus on a particular scapegoat and regardless of what they do, they will always be blackened. You could list out the players who fell into that category over the years. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

Yep. You can look to individual players when it happens as a one off, but when it's a repeated occurance then it's an overall mentality and coaching problem. Worryingly it's one that's, imo, existed from day one under Mowbray but has spent a long time unaddressed because in the dregs of League 1 it just wasn't necessary to be particularly good defensively.

True. The fact that Sunderland can go top of League 1 if they win their games in hand, shows how bad that league is. Sunderland went down in absolute disarray last season. We got away with our defensive and mental frailties as the opposition were generally poor. Yet we also only used to win by the odd goal. It's seems like under Mowbray we are pretty much always hanging on in games. If we had anything about us, we would have scored a third and finished that game off today

[DaveyB]

29 minutes ago, booth said:

Mowbray picked them. Mowbray decided to take a gamble on a young lad instead of strengthening the defence.

Loads of people said that the players you have mentioned needed competition or replacing with championship level players but Mowbray was happy to stick with those that got us promoted.

This is all fair enough if this season is just to stay in the division and strengthen next season for a real push. Got to question the signing of Brereton though.

Mowbray did pick them and they got us into a comfortable 2-0 lead with 15 mins left to play. If these players were as bad as some on here are making out then surely that would never have happened - we should be getting rolled over week in week out if you believed the pundits on here, since we have no decent full backs, no proper wingers, no central midfield, no creativity going forward, no commanding centrehalf - it's a miracle that we not 20 points adrift at the foot of the table really ? 

Raya cost us two points today - not Mowbray, not Brereton, not a mentality of sitting back or anything else. It was a brainfart moment from the goalkeeper which gifted them a way back into a game that was all but won up to that point.

And if anyone thinks that Mowbray didn't read him the riot act after the game then they obviously don't sit as close behind him as we do - he was absolutely livid on the touchline in that second half

[AAK]

When bringing up the stats of our dropped points this season, it was said that stat was pointless. Well I bring it up again, now 16 points dropped from winning positions (nearly 18 stoke game) that's the most in the league, it's becoming a bit a joke now, and highlights the poor transfer window, of which defenders were and still are needed and a replacement for Smallwood. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by AAK

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

Mowbray did pick them and they got us into a comfortable 2-0 lead with 15 mins left to play. If these players were as bad as some on here are making out then surely that would never have happened - we should be getting rolled over week in week out if you believed the pundits on here, since we have no decent full backs, no proper wingers, no central midfield, no creativity going forward, no commanding centrehalf - it's a miracle that we not 20 points adrift at the foot of the table really ? 

Raya cost us two points today - not Mowbray, not Brereton, not a mentality of sitting back or anything else. It was a brainfart moment from the goalkeeper which gifted them a way back into a game that was all but won up to that point.

And if anyone thinks that Mowbray didn't read him the riot act after the game then they obviously don't sit as close behind him as we do - he was absolutely livid on the touchline in that second half

What was he doing and saying? It was very frustrating. A real deflating game. 

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

28 minutes ago, den9112 said:

When the lad starts and completes x amount of games only then will i compare him to Chris Brown

He really must be poor if he doesn’t even compare to Chris Brown.

Joking aside, nobody is blaming Brereton.

More pointing out how we fall apart repeatedly (in fact predictably) when Graham goes off. Today BB came on for Danny to play up top which means doing the same job / type of work. He was either poorly instructed or he was just poor at it. Never got close to winning any balls. We ended up defending which we are crap at and it was 2-2 from a comfortable 2-0 before Graham went off.

[Riversider28]

I've just about had it with some people on this board singling out Brereton as a reason why we lost a 2-0 lead today. The lad has barely played 90 mins in total so far.

Defensive frailties are the main cause of us losing points throughout the season. This must be addressed in January or we will see ourselves sliding down the table rapidly.

[aletheia]

Some astute points already made. Agree with bigdog –most frustrating game this season.

Highly annoying and Mogga’s interview, typically dour but sensible, didn’t help improve feelings in my household. Young side, we’ve just come up and so on –well yes, and before the start of the season I would have been happy with mid-table but some of the positions we find ourselves in with these games, it doesn’t really require genius to manage a game for a better result. The BlueNoses looked dispirited and the worst side I’ve seen here this season –no pressing of the ball, no urgency and some aimless long punts to little effect. So 2-0 up, without doing anything special in appalling conditions and on 76 mins Raya goes crackers rushing out for a ball and gives away a pen. Gardner (who galvanised them a little when he came on before that) duly converts. So 13 mins to survive by intelligent game management. Nah. They now have a little belief (something not present for the previous 79 mins). On 80 mins, can’t remember exactly how but we lose the ball, Gardner picks it up centrally and I lean over to wife and have time to say 3 times “he’s going to slot it inside Nyambe.” All Ryan has to do is make sure that his man is not going to get the ball –he seems to get mesmerised in no man’s land, the ball is duly slotted inside him and they score. 2-2. Cue head shaking from players and fans’ ire.

So:-

Where is the backbone when you need it? The leadership? The game management?  The grit?

At 2-0 nil up you work just as hard if not harder-didn’t happen. Lazy passing, not working as a unit.

Agreed on the new personnel required –odd that such a large sum was used on a player who neither plays, or plays out of positon or doesn’t seem that effective

On Graham –why should a team fall apart defensively when he goes off? Doesn’t account for a stupid goalie rush of blood and brainless right back defending. Agree that it was inevitable that his clockwork/fitness would run down in games and a replacement was necessary. Not sure Brereton is the answer. Looked like a floppy schoolboy to me today but it wasn’t his fault we drew

Armstrong scored but just doesn’t seem interested to me-sulking because he is on the wing?

Reed looked busy and lively and at it-effective centrally I would have thought

Tony’s beloved 4231. No issue with it as such but strange that what is effectively a back 6 can leak so many goals. Perhaps that just comes down to players and ability.

What is absolutely striking to me is the paucity of flair going forward. You could argue that today, in appalling conditions, that it didn’t really matter and was less of an issue and especially when you go 2-0 up. Perhaps that is more for another time, when we are drawing and can’t open a side up.

One other thing –Raya cost us the game? Nope. He gave them some hope and it was 2-1 with 13 to go. That’s when you need the leadership and grit I mentioned above from all your players. Didn’t see it and the inevitable happened.

Edited December 15, 2018 by aletheia