Rovers v Birmingham-Saturday ,December 15th

[Parsonblue]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 If "that is where we are at" he should be doing something about it.  It's his team and he takes responsibility. If he feels he cannot take the team forward perhaps he should consider stepping side

Why would he step aside when he has committed to the club long term?  He has always said this was a long term project, which is what the owners have now bought into.  Until the rebuilding is complete this is "where we are at" in terms of the players available.  

There aren't players in the Under-23's who look ready to be promoted - Nuttall has been excellent the last two games but indifferent prior to that whilst Travis has been in and out form wise for the Under-23's.  Both will benefit from a loan period where they are playing every week.

I thought yesterday was down to individual mistakes more than a collective failure of the team.  For the most part we looked very comfortable until Graham went off.

[JBiz]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

 

I thought yesterday was down to individual mistakes more than a collective failure of the team.  For the most part we looked very comfortable until Graham went off.

Young players make more mistakes and I’d suggest Raya/Nyambe made the most significant errors yesterday. That doesn’t mean they aren’t worth persevering with though.

Gutted really because for 70 minutes or whatever it was, we looked comfortable, effective and well organised.

[Cherry Blue]

30 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Very frustrating yesterday. 

Birmingham were completely disinterested until Raya handed them a lifeline. Then the second goal came from Bell losing the ball and some horrific defending and a lack of anticipation from Nyambe. 

Said leaving the ground that daft decision by our keeper will stick in my mind for a long time. Mowbray said he can't be too hard on him, not sure what he means because you'd expect your boss coming down hard on you for crazy decision that was not needed. 

As a manager he will apply his own style but Raya's card marked. That's football as we all know. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

Young players make more mistakes and I’d suggest Raya/Nyambe made the most significant errors yesterday. That doesn’t mean they aren’t worth persevering with though.

Gutted really because for 70 minutes or whatever it was, we looked comfortable, effective and well organised.

until Graham got took off and we had nobody capable of replacing him.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, Franky said:

until Graham got took off and we had nobody capable of replacing him.

Doesn’t matter who is upfront if you’re keeper drops a clanger and your defence falls asleep. I’m amazed you and Ewood Ace seemingly can’t see that.

Oh wait, course I know why - it’s perfect excuse to criticise Brererton/Mowbray! Doh silly me.

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, Biz said:

Doesn’t matter who is upfront if you’re keeper drops a clanger and your defence falls asleep. I’m amazed you and Ewood Ace seemingly can’t see that.

Oh wait, course I know why - it’s perfect excuse to criticise Brererton/Mowbray! Doh silly me.

I'm amazed that you can't see as soon as Graham goes of we don't look like scoring when we clear the ball up the field there is no one to hold it up so it comes straight back at us and we are under the cosh defending which we are not very good at. Do you think that it is purely coincidence the number of points dropped when Graham has been take off?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

I'm amazed that you can't see as soon as Graham goes of we don't look like scoring when we clear the ball up the field there is no one to hold it up so it comes straight back at us and we are under the cosh defending which we are not very good at.

That is certainly the case and it does put pressure on the rest of the team. DG is vital to the way we play. 

However, it wasn't the reason Raya had a brainstorm. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

I'm amazed that you can't see as soon as Graham goes of we don't look like scoring when we clear the ball up the field there is no one to hold it up so it comes straight back at us and we are under the cosh defending which we are not very good at. Do you think that it is purely coincidence the number of points dropped when Graham has been take off?

I’d rather judge a scenario on its own merits. It’s obvious that Graham helps us keep the ball up the pitch, that we agree on - however there’s certainly method in bringing a faster player to find gaps as the opposition pushes to get back into the game.

Brum never looked a danger until we actively encouraged them through a daft mistake by Raya. In the ensuing panic, we are caught out because of bad defending, not Brererton or anyone else.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Lads, nothing changed when Graham went off. It's not like we were camped in their half when he was on second half. He looked wrecked. We weren't under the cosh because of Brereton not holding it up. We were comfortable, they were repeatedly kicking the ball out of play and astray. Rayas mistake changed the game, simple as that. 

[Ewood Ace]

10 minutes ago, Biz said:

I’d rather judge a scenario on its own merits. It’s obvious that Graham helps us keep the ball up the pitch, that we agree on - however there’s certainly method in bringing a faster player to find gaps as the opposition pushes to get back into the game.

Brum never looked a danger until we actively encouraged them through a daft mistake by Raya. In the ensuing panic, we are caught out because of bad defending, not Brererton or anyone else.

I've not said it was Brereton's fault yesterday (although I think he's rubbish but I am not blaming him for yesterday). All I say is look at the stats when Graham has been taken off we've dropped a number of points and haven't scored a goal.

 

Off the top of my head

Ipswich 2-1 up drew 2-2

Bristol City 2-1 down lost 4-1

Sheffield United 0-0 Lost 2-0

Swansea 1-0 up lost 3-1

Birmingham 2-0 up drew 2-2

 

That's 8 points dropped, 10 goals conceded and 0 goals scored. Do you think that is purely coincidence? 

[jim mk2]

44 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

 

I thought yesterday was down to individual mistakes more than a collective failure of the team.  For the most part we looked very comfortable until Graham went off.

  Lift and dust I'm afraid. There have been too many individual errors while the team as a whole has looked rocky defensively all season (and many times last season). Mowbray shows no sign of being able to resolve it.  Is he content with "being where we are at"?  He needs to clarify that statement because if he's saying this is as good as it gets we as fans should all be worried. 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

I've not said it was Brereton's fault yesterday (although I think he's rubbish but I am not blaming him for yesterday). All I say is look at the stats when Graham has been taken off we've dropped a number of points and haven't scored a goal.

 

Off the top of my head

Ipswich 2-1 up drew 2-2

Bristol City 2-1 down lost 4-1

Sheffield United 0-0 Lost 2-0

Swansea 1-0 up lost 3-1

Birmingham 2-0 up drew 2-2

 

That's 8 points dropped, 10 goals conceded and 0 goals scored. Do you think that is purely coincidence? 

It plays a part that we don’t have anyone else of his ilk, but the team overall has to cut out silly mistakes.

Villa at home for example. 1-0, not sure if Graham went off or not but a needless freekick and a dodgy wall later - 2 points dropped.

[OldEwoodBlue]

5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I've not said it was Brereton's fault yesterday (although I think he's rubbish but I am not blaming him for yesterday). All I say is look at the stats when Graham has been taken off we've dropped a number of points and haven't scored a goal.

 

Off the top of my head

Ipswich 2-1 up drew 2-2

Bristol City 2-1 down lost 4-1

Sheffield United 0-0 Lost 2-0

Swansea 1-0 up lost 3-1

Birmingham 2-0 up drew 2-2

 

That's 8 points dropped, 10 goals conceded and 0 goals scored. Do you think that is purely coincidence? 

Hard to discuss facts with someone who never played the game and fundamentally doesn’t understand it.

All players make mistakes. Raya made one and we were still winning 2-1.

Inviting the opposition to make you defend immaculately for the rest of the game will invariably bring out mistakes and concede goals. Best way to defend is with the ball up the other end of the park. Simple game. Too simple for the playstation generation.

 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Franky said:

Hard to discuss facts with someone who never played the game and fundamentally doesn’t understand it.

 

Ha! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I've not said it was Brereton's fault yesterday (although I think he's rubbish but I am not blaming him for yesterday). All I say is look at the stats when Graham has been taken off we've dropped a number of points and haven't scored a goal.

 

Off the top of my head

Ipswich 2-1 up drew 2-2

Bristol City 2-1 down lost 4-1

Sheffield United 0-0 Lost 2-0

Swansea 1-0 up lost 3-1

Birmingham 2-0 up drew 2-2

 

That's 8 points dropped, 10 goals conceded and 0 goals scored. Do you think that is purely coincidence? 

I wouldn't say it is down to Graham going off. He's good, but we aren't bullet proof when he is on the field by any stretch of the imagination.

Our issues are at the back. Not whether that is nerves or being instructed to sit back, it isn't working. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Ewood Ace]

13 minutes ago, Franky said:

Hard to discuss facts with someone who never played the game and fundamentally doesn’t understand it.

All players make mistakes. Raya made one and we were still winning 2-1.

Inviting the opposition to make you defend immaculately for the rest of the game will invariably bring out mistakes and concede goals. Best way to defend is with the ball up the other end of the park. Simple game. Too simple for the playstation generation.

 

That's what people seem to forget even after the penalty we were still 2-1 up at home to an average Birmingham team with 12 minutes left to play and within 4 minutes it was all square. The simple fact is when we took Graham off we were far less likely to get the third goal to kill the game and more likely to sit back and given our defence that means more likely than not conceding. All good sides defend from the front and that is what Graham does for us when he is not on sides find it much easier. 

[chaddyrovers]

 

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

 If "that is where we are at" he should be doing something about it.  It's his team and he takes responsibility. If he feels he cannot take the team forward perhaps he should consider stepping side

what a stupid and daft comment to make Jim. Mowbray signed a new contract 2 weeks ago. Should really try reading Mowbray's comments about how he is going to grow the club/playing staff wise over the coming years. The owners have and its time fans like yourself do instead of pointless cheap comments/digs

58 minutes ago, Franky said:

until Graham got took off and we had nobody capable of replacing him.

we were doing fine until Raya's mistake

38 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I'm amazed that you can't see as soon as Graham goes of we don't look like scoring when we clear the ball up the field there is no one to hold it up so it comes straight back at us and we are under the cosh defending which we are not very good at. Do you think that it is purely coincidence the number of points dropped when Graham has been take off?

But with Brereton on Rovers looked very comfortable and was cruising to easy 2 nil win at least. Birmingham were creating nothing second half until Raya's mistake. simple as end of story. we were passing it to feet and look confident. then as soon as we conceded we back to hopeless long balls and stop playing the game plan that get us 2 nil up

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

34 minutes ago, Franky said:

Hard to discuss facts with someone who never played the game and fundamentally doesn’t understand it.

All players make mistakes. Raya made one and we were still winning 2-1.

Inviting the opposition to make you defend immaculately for the rest of the game will invariably bring out mistakes and concede goals. Best way to defend is with the ball up the other end of the park. Simple game. Too simple for the playstation generation.

 

I agree with your point that the best defence is to be playing in your opponents half buts that's not so easy when you're playing with a back six.

[Ewood Ace]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

But with Brereton on Rovers looked very comfortable and was cruising to easy 2 nil win at least. Birmingham were creating nothing second half until Raya's mistake. simple as end of story. we were passing it to feet and look confident. then as soon as we conceded we back to hopeless long balls and stop playing the game plan that get us 2 nil up

That was 8 minutes within 12 minutes of Graham going of it was 2-2. And even after Raya's mistake we were still 2-1 up at home  against a Birmingham side who 'were creating nothing'. And you know who you need up front when you are playing long balls to make sure that the ball doesn't come straight back at you, Danny Graham.

[JHRover]

There's clearly a fragility to this team. Far too many points have been dropped from good positions either through silly mistakes, panicking when under pressure or sitting back and trying to defend narrow leads. On this particular occasion the comeback can be put down to a clanger by Raya, following which we lost our heads and conceded a second. But it's happened so many times there's more to discuss than individuals and I hope Mowbray is aware and alarmed by the amount of points we have squandered from winning positions.

[JHRover]

25 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

That's what people seem to forget even after the penalty we were still 2-1 up at home to an average Birmingham team with 12 minutes left to play and within 4 minutes it was all square. The simple fact is when we took Graham off we were far less likely to get the third goal to kill the game and more likely to sit back and given our defence that means more likely than not conceding. All good sides defend from the front and that is what Graham does for us when he is not on sides find it much easier. 

We shouldn't have needed a 3rd to win the game yet with our defensive record getting a 3rd was the most likely route to victory. Like v Sheffield Wednesday we shouldn't have needed 3 goals to win that game against a woeful side yet we did as we managed to concede twice out of no pressure.

[JHRover]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

what a stupid and daft comment to make Jim. Mowbray signed a new contract 2 weeks ago. Should really try reading Mowbray's comments about how he is going to grow the club/playing staff wise over the coming years. The owners have and its time fans like yourself do instead of pointless cheap comments/digs

we were doing fine until Raya's mistake

But with Brereton on Rovers looked very comfortable and was cruising to easy 2 nil win at least. Birmingham were creating nothing second half until Raya's mistake. simple as end of story. we were passing it to feet and look confident. then as soon as we conceded we back to hopeless long balls and stop playing the game plan that get us 2 nil up

When was the last time we cruised to an easy win by 2 goals at Championship level? Sheffield Wednesday made us worry with their 2 goals.

Edited December 16, 2018 by JHRover

[Ewood Ace]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We shouldn't have needed a 3rd to win the game yet with our defensive record getting a 3rd was the most likely route to victory. Like v Sheffield Wednesday we shouldn't have needed 3 goals to win that game against a woeful side yet we did as we managed to concede twice out of no pressure.

I agree that we shouldn't but the simple fact is with our defence we do need to.

[chaddyrovers]

15 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you have yes or no answers to these questions please:

Do you agree that our constant tendency to throw away points from winning positions is a massive concern?

Is our fragile defence something that worries you at all?

Do you not at all go back on your opinion that signing competition for Nyambe is necessary?

Do you agree than Graham is much more effective in our team than Brereton?

I am not in my mid 30s so no that wasnt me and further still, I am not a member of the "I hate Ben Brereton society."

The fee will of course cause an added sense of intrigue, pressure and added discussion, like it or loathe it. Just as Mowbray is commended further for his signing of Dack when considering his small fee.

People will obviously judge if we have a 7 million striker yet to start, yet to score, as a team with weaknesses in a number of positions.

1. I look at each case as it happen. It not just think but mainly its players mistakes. Ipswich late goal was a freak goal. 

2. its worries me more than after we conceded one we look so hopeless and weak we lost like we conceded another. Like Yesterday or Preston away. We get far too nervous and resorted back to this aimless long balls. 

3. Its all depends where Bennett/Travis is going to play long term. 

4. Our current team/style is set up more for Graham than Brereton. If we are going to change to more of passing style in the coming months/next season than I think it will suit Brereton more. 

If it the 7 mil fee that people think can be spend better far enough but surely its a pointless discussion as this money was spent already. The Brereton permanent deal is done and dusted. 

[roversfan99]

Nit picking a tad but wasnt too impressed with Mowbray saying maybe "thats just where we are."

He was right to feel frustrated, I dont think that a constant surrendering of points is ever something that you should be accepting of or is just a growing pain.

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

1. I look at each case as it happen. It not just think but mainly its players mistakes. Ipswich late goal was a freak goal. 

2. its worries me more than after we conceded one we look so hopeless and weak we lost like we conceded another. Like Yesterday or Preston away. We get far too nervous and resorted back to this aimless long balls. 

3. Its all depends where Bennett/Travis is going to play long term. 

4. Our current team/style is set up more for Graham than Brereton. If we are going to change to more of passing style in the coming months/next season than I think it will suit Brereton more. 

If it the 7 mil fee that people think can be spend better far enough but surely its a pointless discussion as this money was spent already. The Brereton permanent deal is done and dusted. 

What makes you say that Brereton would suit a passing style, his first touch and technical ability are certainly not his strong suits?

I dont think that a total change of tact from a long ball team to a passing team is imminent or reasonable and there are no signs that it is being gradually done.

We need competition at right back now, Travis is seen as a midfielder, as is Bennett.