What Needs To Change and Where Do We Go From Here?

[Norbert Rassragr]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Farke or the bloke who manages Huddersfield. They were found somewhere and came to the Championship. Can you imagine our owners finding anyone like that?

No I can't. Sure, we could try to see if a third ex-Klopp coach nails it, and it will be like Pochettino replacing Adkins but it has to be the right person. At the right time. However, this is Venkys and we are just as likely to spin the tombola and end up with another 'outstanding candidate' in the mould of Coyle. Spinning the tombola now would be a risk.

Even if Tony was replaced by someone like you have mentioned, everyone here will want him binned if we have a phase where we have  1 win in the last 5 games.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

No I can't. Sure, we could try to see if a third ex-Klopp coach nails it, and it will be like Pochettino replacing Adkins but it has to be the right person. At the right time. However, this is Venkys and we are just as likely to spin the tombola and end up with another 'outstanding candidate' in the mould of Coyle. Spinning the tombola now would be a risk.

Even if Tony was replaced by someone like you have mentioned, everyone here will want him binned if we have a phase where we have  1 win in the last 5 games.

Agreed. I think Mowbray is fairly average but Venky's are more than capable of appointing someone far worse. 

[Gone to seed]

https://youtu.be/hKidQq-WZwM?t=46

Err... something better change.

It seems there is no natural leader on the pitch, so when things go against them, there is no-one to look to for inspiration. I think a Savage, Nelsen or  Flitcroft figure would improve results no end - the team spirit is there, the ability is (largely) there, it is just this annoying 'glass jaw' mentality that literally lets the side down..

Now, if we were to acquire a strong, no-nonsense and vocal centre half in the transfer window - someone coming towards the end of their career at the higher levels, who fancies two or three seasons as the fulcrum in a Rovers renaissance.... that would do me!

Edited December 27, 2018 by WIR Second Coming

[J*B]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

I don’t think it’s fitness, but definitley on bottle; Experience, nasty streak, calmness, mental toughness, I agree with.

I think that’s down to the youth of our first team more than tactics/approach. A nasty and experienced, preferably massive and fast (don’t ask much...) centre half in January would I would “go next”

I totally agree - it's not a fitness thing, it's a team spirit thing. They're all too matey. Imagine Andy Todd, Ryan Nelsen or similar when we went 2-2 yesterday, they would have been furious, there's no way they would have let another in after that. Our current lot seem to accept losing far too easily.

[G Somerset Rover]

6 minutes ago, J*B said:

I totally agree - it's not a fitness thing, it's a team spirit thing. They're all too matey. Imagine Andy Todd, Ryan Nelsen or similar when we went 2-2 yesterday, they would have been furious, there's no way they would have let another in after that. Our current lot seem to accept losing far too easily.

Yep similar thing I posted in another thread. That’s why I’m unsure about Mulgrew being captain material. There’s nobody who takes the ball by the horns - grabs the ball - rallies the troops. Oh for a Nelsen or Todd as you said. We need a tough bugger as captain to crash a few heads together.

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Yep similar thing I posted in another thread. That’s why I’m unsure about Mulgrew being captain material. There’s nobody who takes the ball by the horns - grabs the ball - rallies the troops. Oh for a Nelsen or Todd as you said. We need a tough bugger as captain to crash a few heads together.

Mulgrew is a very classy player, but he's been at the heart of a defence that has regularly leaked goals for fun. Not much of a leader or organiser imo, but I suppose that has to be framed in the context of him playing outside of his natural position. 

[J*B]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

Mulgrew is a very classy player, but he's been at the heart of a defence that has regularly leaked goals for fun. Not much of a leader or organiser imo, but I suppose that has to be framed in the context of him playing outside of his natural position. 

If I could give all of Mulgrews goals to someone else I would - I'm really not sure how helpful it is defensively to have your centre back on for a hat trick. Does it reduce concentration on defence? I don't know.

[DE.]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

If I could give all of Mulgrews goals to someone else I would - I'm really not sure how helpful it is defensively to have your centre back on for a hat trick. Does it reduce concentration on defence? I don't know.

Pretty much all of his goals come from free kicks and penalties so I can't imagine it has much of an impact on the defence. Mulgrew is just not a great defender. He got caught out numerous times last year in League 1, but fortunately the opposition was so poor it rarely mattered. This year unfortunately it does matter, especially when he's partnered with an equally poor, out of position CB in Lenihan. 

[Sparks Rover]

Jesus, out of all our defenders and you're having a go at Charlie????? he is surrounded by feckin shyte Williams,  Lenihan,  Smallwood et al.....

 

Joke having a go at mulgrew 

[Stuart]

26 minutes ago, J*B said:

I totally agree - it's not a fitness thing, it's a team spirit thing. They're all too matey. Imagine Andy Todd, Ryan Nelsen or similar when we went 2-2 yesterday, they would have been furious, there's no way they would have let another in after that. Our current lot seem to accept losing far too easily.

That mentality starts with the manager. After games he talks about “disappointment” but that “we’ll learn from it” / move on and work together in future, etc. The sad things is that many fans excuse or even agree with this approach.

There was a rather telling comment after yesterday’s game...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17320535.leeds-united-3-blackburn-rovers-2-tony-mowbray-reaction/

“I can’t sum up out how the players were feeling, other than it was pretty quiet. The inquest was starting as I walking out (to speak to the press).”

Surely Mowbray should be leading the inquest?

[Mattyblue]

He doesn’t.

He’s said before that the senior players ‘run the dressing room’. I can’t say it’s something I ever hear other managers say.

‘I always say to them this is their dressing room, their team, I rarely go in their dressing room’

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16980319.tony-mowbray-feels-rovers-have-reason-to-be-optimistic/

[DE.]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

He doesn’t.

He’s said before that the senior players ‘run the dressing room’. I can’t say it’s something I ever hear other managers say.

‘I always say to them this is their dressing room, their team, I rarely go in their dressing room’

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16980319.tony-mowbray-feels-rovers-have-reason-to-be-optimistic/

"And he said of his squad: “The group are very strong mentally"

lol.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, Stuart said:

That mentality starts with the manager. After games he talks about “disappointment” but that “we’ll learn from it” / move on and work together in future, etc. The sad things is that many fans excuse or even agree with this approach.

There was a rather telling comment after yesterday’s game...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17320535.leeds-united-3-blackburn-rovers-2-tony-mowbray-reaction/

“I can’t sum up out how the players were feeling, other than it was pretty quiet. The inquest was starting as I walking out (to speak to the press).”

Surely Mowbray should be leading the inquest?

 

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He doesn’t.

He’s said before that the senior players ‘run the dressing room’. I can’t say it’s something I ever hear other managers say.

‘I always say to them this is their dressing room, their team, I rarely go in their dressing room’

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16980319.tony-mowbray-feels-rovers-have-reason-to-be-optimistic/

All of which ties in with Mowbrays confusion as to why no strikers stayed up yesterday after we went ahead. 

I'm all for player power, but our team outside of Mulgrew doesn't have enough winners or leaders for this to work at championship level to the level we all want. 

The manager needs to take command at certain, if not all, times. If you have a team with your Roy Keanes etc, you can delegate responsibility. As I said, our lot are too young and not used to winning stuff. 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Bigdoggsteel

[Stuart]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

All of which ties in with Mowbrays confusion as to why no strikers stayed up yesterday after we went ahead. 

I'm all for player power, but our team outside of Mulgrew doesn't have enough winners or leaders for this to work at championship level to the level we all want. 

The manager needs to take command at certain, if not all, times. If you have a team with your Roy Keanes etc, you can delegate responsibility. As I said, our lot are too young and not used to winning stuff. 

There is definitely a balance. You need a captain who will be your voice on the pitch but it is definitely your message that he is giving out.

If Mowbray is suggesting that he isn’t really involved with the team on match days then that’s not delegating it’s passing the buck.

[Mattyblue]

It’s also the complete opposite of an Allardyce. He delegated a lot of the sessions at the training ground to his coaching staff. But matchday was his domain.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s also the complete opposite of an Allardyce. He delegated a lot of the sessions at the training ground to his coaching staff. But matchday was his domain.

Which is how a football manager should operate IMHO.

[RevidgeBlue]

The first thing for me that needs to change is that TM needs to stop being too loyal to the players who have been here some considerable time and be a lot more  ruthless in attempting to improve the squad.

Team spirit can only get you so far and we still have the rump of the squad that got us relegated last time round. I've said numerous times that those players will do for TM eventually unless he is careful.

 

[tomphil]

19 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s also the complete opposite of an Allardyce. He delegated a lot of the sessions at the training ground to his coaching staff. But matchday was his domain.

As did Sir Kenneth.

Something we've missed at Ewood for a long long time is good coaching staff behind the manager but all our appointments are allowed to bring their pals in. Again that's a football thing rather than being just unique to Rovers but its often baffled me as to why your number 2 at work has to be your best friend or an ex player and not someone suitably qualified for the job.

Always felt Souness fell down in that dept.

Having said all that the problem at Rovers is an agent would appoint the number 2 as we've seen or the owners would appoint someone who blows kisses in their ears !

[G Somerset Rover]

22 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The first thing for me that needs to change is that TM needs to stop being too loyal to the players who have been here some considerable time and be a lot more  ruthless in attempting to improve the squad.

Team spirit can only get you so far and we still have the rump of the squad that got us relegated last time round. I've said numerous times that those players will do for TM eventually unless he is careful.

 

Yep. Just what the heck has *Williams done to start for us once again? It’s been one catastrophic display after the other. Time for the likes of Travis and Downing - players who have done nowt wrong - to come into the side. But I won’t be holding my breathe. 

*There are others who fit this criteria - but he’s been consistently the poorest performer for me.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[ChrisPriceBaldSpot]

Time to drop Lenihan, Williams, Smallwood, Evans, Armstrong. Let's give Rothwell, Downing, Brereton, Travis, Davenport(when fit) a chance. Give Palmer a run in the team. I expect wholesale changes for the next game and knowing Rovers an unlikely win. 3 or 4 decent first team additions and we can get back on track. 

Huth

Bauer

Chapman

Maddison 

Gestede

Gallagher

Chong (Man utd) 

Freeman

Oviedo

Samba

4 from the above list and we might get on a roll again. 

[Stuart]

I don’t expect wholesale changes in the team. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brereton coming back and Nuttall dropped were the only changes in fact.

Smallwood and Evans will remain as the anchors in a side going nowhere.

This is the perpetual problem that we now have and I see the board becoming more and more fraught.

[blueboy3333]

5 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Smallwood and Evans will remain as the anchors in a side going nowhere

That wouldn't be a bad thing if we had players further forward who could create. It may have been a different story if we'd signed Freeman. 

Every team needs an anchor. At least I think that's what my old manager said. 

[RoversClitheroe]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I don’t expect wholesale changes in the team. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brereton coming back and Nuttall dropped were the only changes in fact.

Smallwood and Evans will remain as the anchors in a side going nowhere.

This is the perpetual problem that we now have and I see the board becoming more and more fraught.

Agreed completely. 

Why does he trust so much in Smallwood? 

[BlackburnEnd75]

If people want wholesale changes then think again. Who’ve we got to bring in?

Palmer I’d play in Dacks role if he wasn’t fit but other than that wouldn’t bother

Downing isn’t better than Lenihan and makes more mistakes

we haven’t got another right back to replace Nyambe. Reed would be wasted there, Bennett isn’t good enough there. Travis maybe

In cm, Davenport isn’t for clearly, Travis maybe? Reed should be starting there every game. Rothwell isn’t disciplined enough to play there. 

Out wide get Bennett back in when he’s fit and then got ROTHWELL in there instead of Armstrong who isn’t a winger. Rothwell showed more In one run to win the free kick for the second goal then Armstrong did all game. He’s got pace and technical ability for the love of god Tony give him a run of games.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Now we have played everyone, the biggest thing to strike me is how far off the top 6 our squad is in technique. Leeds yesterday, Sheffield Utd, Derby, Norwich and West Brom all passed us off the park. How many of our players would get into their teams? Dack, at a push.

BUT, we have taken 6 points off the top 6 and it should’ve been 11, which suggests to me we are playing to existing strengths. But I don’t think those strengths are enough - every game is a slog, which means we tire more and make more mistakes.

The next two windows will say a lot about how far we can go. Mowbray’s Achilles heel is how little his last window took us forward.