Sheffield United vs Blackburn Rovers: 29th December 2018

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

I think now is the time he needs to decide on his formation, best selection to suit it and just stick to it through hell or high water and tough it out. We aren't capable of shutting up shop in games nor do we press and play front foot often enough, we are just somewhere in the middle but this between the devil and the deep blue see routine is causing shades of I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle type confusion on the park every week now. TM and the team are better than that so as boring as it may be just get back to basics then try and improve his preferred style by getting in better players alongside those in key positions.

TM is one of those managers who actually gets better results when he sticks to what he knows and if I were him i'd be going to away games with 442 and looking to have two banks of four.  At home go the more staggered route of Dack and Graham but away get two strikers on closing down from the front.

What is the best formation though. The current 4-2-3-1 clearly isn't working, We have no wingers to play 4-4-2 and where would Dack play in that. We can't play 3/5 at the back as we don't have 2 decent centre back's let alone 3 and our full backs aren't good enough to be wing backs.

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I think now is the time he needs to decide on his formation, best selection to suit it and just stick to it through hell or high water and tough it out. We aren't capable of shutting up shop in games nor do we press and play front foot often enough, we are just somewhere in the middle but this between the devil and the deep blue see routine is causing shades of I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle type confusion on the park every week now. TM and the team are better than that so as boring as it may be just get back to basics then try and improve his preferred style by getting in better players alongside those in key positions.

TM is one of those managers who actually gets better results when he sticks to what he knows and if I were him i'd be going to away games with 442 and looking to have two banks of four.  At home go the more staggered route of Dack and Graham but away get two strikers on closing down from the front.

Perhaps TM needs someone in, to help him out a bit more with decision making. In my experience (not in a football environment) I have found it gives you a better view of things if you have someone to tell you their opinions, rather than just agreeing with yours.

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

What is the best formation though. The current 4-2-3-1 clearly isn't working, We have no wingers to play 4-4-2 and where would Dack play in that. We can't play 3/5 at the back as we don't have 2 decent centre back's let alone 3 and our full backs aren't good enough to be wing backs.

He's made a rod for his own back though, no wingers no proper target man to back up DG or try something different. I'd say that similar to Bowyer Mowbrays cautious approach best suits 442 with the two holding mids, it's not my favourite style but the way he approaches games is best suited to a solid line up. However his recruitment doesn't fit that formation so it's an odd one.

The way they set out yesterday seemed to do ok but he'll revert straight back to type whether we'd won that with 11 v 11 or not I reckon. As for Dack I fear we are going down the Rhodes route with him but I did say use that formation at home or change to it away later on in games. Dack is our talisman at times but it shouldn't be forgotten he was signed for 750k from league 1 he isn't a world beater just a good tricky player on his day but I don't see why he should be immune to be being dropped when he isn't cutting it.

[rigger]

10 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

What is the best formation though. The current 4-2-3-1 clearly isn't working, We have no wingers to play 4-4-2 and where would Dack play in that. We can't play 3/5 at the back as we don't have 2 decent centre back's let alone 3 and our full backs aren't good enough to be wing backs.

Yesterday the current system worked well enough until we where given the chance to take the game. Then through lack of a plan to take that advantage, we chucked it away.

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, rigger said:

Perhaps TM needs someone in, to help him out a bit more with decision making. In my experience (not in a football environment) I have found it gives you a better view of things if you have someone to tell you their opinions, rather than just agreeing with yours.

Agree and the quality of the coaching staff has been brought up a few times but I suppose it's dangerous turf for a manager as he is supposed to have the final say and the buck stops with him.  For that reason they mostly seem to surround themselves with yes men.

[arbitro]

59 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The second yellow was for deliberate handball and on replay the SU player does move his arm towards the balls flight. Ref did well to spot it.

It was but not every handball is a yellow card. I'd have been disappointed if we had a player sent off in those circumstances.

[rigger]

Just now, arbitro said:

It was but not every handball is a yellow card. I'd have been disappointed if we had a player sent off in those circumstances.

But every deliberate one should be.

[AllRoverAsia]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

It was but not every handball is a yellow card. I'd have been disappointed if we had a player sent off in those circumstances.

I tend to agree. It is difficult to jump at all with arms not moving somewhat but in this case there was arm movement towards the ball with the player looking too.

Edited December 30, 2018 by AllRoverAsia

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

But every deliberate one should be.

Handball is the only penal offence that has to be deliberate. Are you really advocating that every handball given is a yellow card?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Headline in my paper today quoting Pochettino  at Spurs- " It's Not Enough To Play For 60 or 70 Minutes. You Need To Play For 95 ".  I'd be happy with an improvement on our usual 45.

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Handball is the only penal offence that has to be deliberate. Are you really advocating that every handball given is a yellow card?

If the ref gives it, then he has to think that it is deliberate, so by the rules he should book the offender. In that case ,yes. I am not agreeing with the rules. But we are playing the game to the rules as they are. If the rules need changing that is up to the governing body not the referee.

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Headline in my paper today quoting Pochettino  at Spurs- " It's Not Enough To Play For 60 or 70 Minutes. You Need To Play For 95 ".  I'd be happy with an improvement on our usual 45.

He needs to focus more on the positives and complain about the ref.

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17326045.sheffield-united-3-blackburn-rovers-0-chris-wilder-reaction/

For 45 mins we were the best team that have gone to Bramall Lane this season according to Wilder. 

Maybe the 3 CM's is the future. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Agree and the quality of the coaching staff has been brought up a few times but I suppose it's dangerous turf for a manager as he is supposed to have the final say and the buck stops with him.  For that reason they mostly seem to surround themselves with yes men.

Johnson stepping up could be good. He seems to have the under 23s at a good fitness level. 

[DE.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17326045.sheffield-united-3-blackburn-rovers-0-chris-wilder-reaction/

For 45 mins we were the best team that have gone to Bramall Lane this season according to Wilder. 

Maybe the 3 CM's is the future. 

"“The outcome of the game, especially when we went down to 10 men...no-one would have seen the result coming.”

Wouldn't be so sure about that. 

[Bbrovers2288]

I think the elephant in the room is that mowbray has set his team up , formation/signings to accommodate dack. We don’t play two up top because we have dack, we don’t have wingers because we have dack. I know he didn’t start yesterday but by all accounts we won’t wrong when he came on. He has played ok this season but he has had far too many quiet games. Gives the ball away too much and his fitness isn’t up to scratch. 

Love him but would happily sell him to get two good pacey wingers in, go to 442 and become solid. This would also allow Armstrong to play up top because on that winger role he is useless and a complete waste of time. Cut the square pegs nonsense and make it as simple as needs be. Let Tony Mowbray be Tony Mowbray and not trying to be Tony klopp

[arbitro]

18 minutes ago, rigger said:

If the ref gives it, then he has to think that it is deliberate, so by the rules he should book the offender. In that case ,yes. I am not agreeing with the rules. But we are playing the game to the rules as they are. If the rules need changing that is up to the governing body not the referee.

You are wrong, the law doesn't say every handball is a caution. For it to be an offence the referee has to deem it intentional but even then a caution is discretionary.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I think the elephant in the room is that mowbray has set his team up , formation/signings to accommodate dack. We don’t play two up top because we have dack, we don’t have wingers because we have dack. I know he didn’t start yesterday but by all accounts we won’t wrong when he came on. He has played ok this season but he has had far too many quiet games. Gives the ball away too much and his fitness isn’t up to scratch. 

Love him but would happily sell him to get two good pacey wingers in, go to 442 and become solid. This would also allow Armstrong to play up top because on that winger role he is useless and a complete waste of time. Cut the square pegs nonsense and make it as simple as needs be. Let Tony Mowbray be Tony Mowbray and not trying to be Tony klopp

I get why Dack starting means we play 1 up top, but I don't see how it means we can't play wingers. Agree with the rest. 20-25 million would be a great deal for us. 

[blueboy3333]

No logic to that. We do have 'wingers' they just can't play on the wing (Armstrong). TM calls them 'wide forwards' but they occupy the same space that wingers do. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by blueboy3333

[Bbrovers2288]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I get why Dack starting means we play 1 up top, but I don't see how it means we can't play wingers. Agree with the rest. 20-25 million would be a great deal for us. 

Perhaps we could but Tony doesn’t sign/like wingers and can’t help but feel it’s to accommodate dack to allow him a free role 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

No logic to that. We do have 'wingers' they just can't play on the wing (Armstrong). TM calls them 'wide forwards' but they occupy the same space that wingers do. 

Not sure where you are quoting me from. My post above is different to the quote? I'm confused! 

[Tom Stinny]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

No logic to that. We do have 'wingers' they just can't play on the wing (Armstrong). TM calls them 'wide forwards' but they occupy the same space that wingers do. 

I don't understand his use of the wide forward. To me they should be a lot closer to the striker if they are inside forwards/wide forwards. The way our manager plays them you would think they were defensive wingers.

 

2 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Perhaps we could but Tony doesn’t sign/like wingers and can’t help but feel it’s to accommodate dack to allow him a free role 

If we had even 1 out and out clever winger then Dack would have far more impact. What was the game where Conway started at home in? I'm sure we won. Might have been Wednesday but it showed that wingers with Dack and Graham are very effective.

 

We could do with a younger prime Conway right now that's for sure. I'd certainly swap Armstrong, Rothwell and Palmer for one.

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not sure where you are quoting me from. My post above is different to the quote? I'm confused! 

I think I may have quoted t'other fella but from the quoted bit in your reply to him. Humblest apologies sir. 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Tom Stinny said:

I don't understand his use of the wide forward. To me they should be a lot closer to the striker if they are inside forwards/wide forwards. The way our manager plays them you would think they were defensive wingers.

They play where the winger would be. I have no idea why he does it either. He only does it on the left though normally and AA's goals and assists will tell anyone that it isn't working.

'2 and a half' attackers is the bullshit mantra. 

[Tom Stinny]

If the rumours during the summer were true I'd much rather the team below compared to what we have now as a starting 11.

 

Raya

Nyambe Bauer Mulgrew Williams 

Reed Rodwell

Bennet Dack Edwards

Graham

 

At least then every player plays in their position. None of this "he can play 3 positions" I can't see the teams structure at the moment.