Rovers v West Brom 1 Jan 2019

[G Somerset Rover]

Did not see that result coming pre match. Don’t care how it came about - the important thing is the huge 3 points. Well done TM and boys.

[RevidgeBlue]

15 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Has Graham done something to upset you? I’m not picking on you and I know everyone has a different opinion, but I’ve never seen any other Rovers fan be anything but full of praise for him....

No. He's just way past his best.

I don't get it when people go bananas when he collapses somewhere near the half way line and earns a free kick. You'd think he'd beaten five men and bent a thirty yarder into the top corner.  You've got to do a lot more than hold it up occasionslly for me.

[Cherry Blue]

21 minutes ago, Stuart said:

How do you legally hold a player? (Genuine question).

I was meaning in a positional sense they were standing their ground preventing keeper from moving.

[jim mk2]

Graham has lost pace but he's still a hugely important asset to the team. There's no one else in the club who can hold the ball up like him or play with their back to goal. Look how we struggle to keep the ball in the opposition half when he is not in the team - it comes back all the time, putting extra pressure on the defence. He's still first name on the teamsheet for me. 

[Stuart]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Graham has lost pace but he's still a hugely important asset to the team. There's no one else in the club who can hold the ball up like him or play with their back to goal. Look how we struggle to keep the ball in the opposition half when he is not in the team - it comes back all the time, putting extra pressure on the defence. He's still first name on the teamsheet for me. 

Surely this can be taught? And to... Brereton.

Pretty sure you have me on ignore at this point Jim so feel free not to respond.  

[USABlue]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Nah it's not Judo. Straight red every time. 

I don't know why their keeper wasn't red carded too.

 

[DE.]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

Graham has lost pace but he's still a hugely important asset to the team. There's no one else in the club who can hold the ball up like him or play with their back to goal. Look how we struggle to keep the ball in the opposition half when he is not in the team - it comes back all the time, putting extra pressure on the defence. He's still first name on the teamsheet for me. 

Graham has never been about pace. He didn't have any when he arrived so nothing has changed in that regard. His role is to hold up the ball and bring others into play, whilst scoring goals if/when the opportunity arises. He does that pretty well. In Tony's system you'd be looking to the likes of Armstrong, Palmer and Brereton to be using their pace to exploit the opposition defence. 

[Fraserkirky]

 

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No. He's just way past his best.

I don't get it when people go bananas when he collapses somewhere near the half way line and earns a free kick. You'd think he'd beaten five men and bent a thirty yarder into the top corner.  You've got to do a lot more than hold it up occasionslly for me.

I actually agree with you. I said after Sheff Utd, that holding the ball up well,  (sometimes) seems to be about the only thing he is offering at the moment.

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No. He's just way past his best.

I don't get it when people go bananas when he collapses somewhere near the half way line and earns a free kick. You'd think he'd beaten five men and bent a thirty yarder into the top corner.  You've got to do a lot more than hold it up occasionslly for me.

He does that so often, when long balls are hoofed up to him, and he uses his intelligence to turn them into a free kick. He does it especially well when we need someone to run the clock down, like today, when the game is becoming frantic and we need to hold on. I dont get how holding the ball up and winning free kicks becomes an unappreciated skill.

And hes not just about hold up play. He has 9 goals which is a healthy return half way through the season. He is also the best person in terms of getting the best out of Dack, the pair of them are so intelligent with each other. Graham chips in with assists too, his assists for Dack in the Forest and Sheffield Wednesday game were absolutely brilliant, leaving Dack with a tap in on both occasions.

Probably our player of the season in my book.

[had.e.nuff]

19 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I don't know why their keeper wasn't red carded too.

 

I cant believe that you get booked for a player hitting you in the face with the ball looked a good penalty shout to me.

[Exiled in Toronto]

25 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Graham has lost pace but he's still a hugely important asset to the team. There's no one else in the club who can hold the ball up like him or play with their back to goal. Look how we struggle to keep the ball in the opposition half when he is not in the team - it comes back all the time, putting extra pressure on the defence. He's still first name on the teamsheet for me. 

He also finally looks like a week in, week out 90-minute player the last few weeks.

[rovers11]

Excellent result today after three very difficult games. We’re firmly in mid table and I would snapped your hand off at that before the season started. I very much expected us to be firmly in a relegation scrap but I think we’ll be well clear of that. TM continues to do an excellent job.

There’s no doubt there are quite a few players that need to be replaced if we’re to move onto the step in our progression (e.g Bell, Smallwood, Williams etc). I also think we need to give a few of the youngsters a chance once we’re 100% safe this season. It was therefore good to see Grayson on the bench today, not to mention seeing Travis get MOTM. 

 

 

[Bbrovers2288]

Happy tonight but can’t help but wonder where we would be if Tony had trusted in youth a bit earlier, if we had Travis in the middle all season instead of Smallwood- who by the way I was one of the first to note his limitations when others were praising him to the rafters, wasn’t and never has been good enough for this football club. If we had signed a centre half, lb and a genuine 15-20 goal championship striker. Graham is graham and you can’t fault his effort or commitment, think he will be more appreciated when he is gone. That being said, he should be a final 30 min player by now with younger, faster, more prolific striker starting. Brereton it is not. Graham should’ve scored in first 5 mins today, was a very poor effort. 

Il be interested to see how lambert is on his return to Ewood in a few weeks time, in some ways you can’t blame him for walking after broken promises and foresight into how things were heading pre coyle but in others, he clearly didn’t fancy his skills on a limited budget and felt like he was better than us, we have now overtaken his stock, would love to beat them for a wee bit of smugness 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

I don't know why their keeper wasn't red carded too.

 

You're just being greedy now. If the outfield player hadn't gone earlier we may have had a good chance.

[briansol]

Biggest improvement today was probably no Smallwood. He's a great grafter, but for a side inspiring to be top half in the Championship he is too limited. Travis proved certainly proved what we have been missing. Best thing for me was how constructive he was in posession. Smallwood either just hooks it away or passes back to defence. Travis would go past people or pass it forward. Very refreshing!

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

Excellent result today after three very difficult games. We’re firmly in mid table and I would snapped your hand off at that before the season started. I very much expected us to be firmly in a relegation scrap but I think we’ll be well clear of that. TM continues to do an excellent job.

There’s no doubt there are quite a few players that need to be replaced if we’re to move onto the step in our progression (e.g Bell, Smallwood, Williams etc). I also think we need to give a few of the youngsters a chance once we’re 100% safe this season. It was therefore good to see Grayson on the bench today, not to mention seeing Travis get MOTM. 

 

 

May I ask why that is the case? 

We are in a league with some real rubbish in it, notably the likes of Bolton and Ipswich.

We have a wage budget of between 10th and 16th place in the league according to our chief executive, so offer very competitive Championship wages.

Yes we got relegated (primarily down to I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle) but since we have spent comfortably above 10 million on our squad, and are carrying the momentum from a promotion.

Do you not think your expectations were far too low?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, briansol said:

Biggest improvement today was probably no Smallwood. He's a great grafter, but for a side inspiring to be top half in the Championship he is too limited. Travis proved certainly proved what we have been missing. Best thing for me was how constructive he was in posession. Smallwood either just hooks it away or passes back to defence. Travis would go past people or pass it forward. Very refreshing!

I liked the way he just kept going after the ball and swept past Livermore with ease. Controlled aggression.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

Those who don't appreciate Graham need a serious head wobble, yes he's ageing and showing the signs sometimes but he's adapting himself to hold the ball or win free kicks etc whereas in the past he'd be making runs or closing down. Not possible these days but unlike some of the overpaid carthorses of the Venky era this lad is learning to manage his legs and I think TM does a good job of managing him.

To replace him or even get as good a finisher as him even if a different type of player is going to be very difficult, 7 million would go a long way towards it though, may be it still will but that looks an extremely long shot.

[Fraserkirky]

I thought that was about as complete a game as Armstrong has had all season, still only about 75%. Looked dangerous for most of the game. Got a rapturous congratulations from Tony when he came off. More of the same please Adam!

Edited January 1, 2019 by Fraserkirky

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Those who don't appreciate Graham need a serious head wobble, yes he's ageing and showing the signs sometimes but he's adapting himself to hold the ball or win free kicks etc whereas in the past he'd be making runs or closing down. Not possible these days but unlike some of the overpaid carthorses of the Venky era this lad is learning to manage his legs and I think TM does a good job of managing him.

To replace him or even get as good a finisher as him even if a different type of player is going to be very difficult, 7 million would go a long way towards it though, may be it still will but that looks an extremely long shot.

I even think that "showing the signs sometimes" is doing him a disservice, it feels like hes getting better with age, he appears and claims to be fitter than ever, his charging down compared to Breretons half arsed chasing is evidence of that, hes been better this season than in his previous 2 and a half in a Rovers shirt for me.

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Surely this can be taught? And to... Brereton.

Pretty sure you have me on ignore at this point Jim so feel free not to respond.  

It can be taught and learnt but you have to remember where Danny Graham has played and at what level. He's played every division so has scrapped for everything he has. Brereton is an academy lad who forest only found at 15/16 I think. 

 

It takes years to develop the game to Grahams level of consistency. Put it this way, if he still had pace and was a few years younger. He wouldn't be at Rovers, and Dack wouldn't be the star player no where near. I'd drive Dack to any club in the country for a prime 26 year old Danny Graham.

 

I'd like to see more of a two man strike force during games. Whether it's starting that way or making a change at half time or 60 minutes.

[Parsonblue]

Thoroughly enjoyed the game today and very pleased with the performance.  Travis was outstanding, Evans was solid, as usual in midfield, and Graham worked like a Trojan in closing down and winning free-kicks when needed - Brereton should just watch and learn from him if he is ever going to have a hope of winning a starting slot.  Mulgrew's goal was a bit of quality and the second was a superb move and excellent finish from Dack.   I thought Bell had a better game today and offered a bit more defensively than he has of late and Armstrong offered more today than he has for some time.

Looking at the table I just don't see us getting dragged into a relegation battle the way things look.  Lambert is working his relegation magic at Ipswich who seem to have one foot in League One, Reading are in freefall whilst Bolton are looking in serious trouble both on and off the pitch.  Wigan have taken just one point from the last 18.  At the moment we have 8 wins, 8 defeats and 10 draws - very much mid-table form and a platform on which to build.

[Tom Stinny]

1 hour ago, Fraserkirky said:

 

I actually agree with you. I said after Sheff Utd, that holding the ball up well,  (sometimes) seems to be about the only thing he is offering at the moment.

When you think of some of the very very limited technical players that play in midfield and fallback. Danny Graham becomes gold dust when he can hold it up front like he does.

 

Could you imagine having Smallwood, Evans, Bennet, Nyambe and either Williams or bell to build attacks from with any space they find. We'd forever be in our box. 80%-20% possession per game if that.

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I even think that "showing the signs sometimes" is doing him a disservice, it feels like hes getting better with age, he appears and claims to be fitter than ever, his charging down compared to Breretons half arsed chasing is evidence of that, hes been better this season than in his previous 2 and a half in a Rovers shirt for me.

Knowing the clocks ticking has clearly refuelled Danny's desire he's one of a rare breed of older pros who doesn't just seem to be hanging around for the money, Mulgrew similar.

His first half season here takes some beating I've rarely seen a striker work as hard outside of people like Shearer & Newell but probably agree on the rest he looks fitter than the relegation season. Different levels obviously but he's adapting himself a bit like big Al did later in his career when he'd slowed up a bit.

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Thoroughly enjoyed the game today and very pleased with the performance.  Travis was outstanding, Evans was solid, as usual in midfield, and Graham worked like a Trojan in closing down and winning free-kicks when needed - Brereton should just watch and learn from him if he is ever going to have a hope of winning a starting slot.  Mulgrew's goal was a bit of quality and the second was a superb move and excellent finish from Dack.   I thought Bell had a better game today and offered a bit more defensively than he has of late and Armstrong offered more today than he has for some time.

Looking at the table I just don't see us getting dragged into a relegation battle the way things look.  Lambert is working his relegation magic at Ipswich who seem to have one foot in League One, Reading are in freefall whilst Bolton are looking in serious trouble both on and off the pitch.  Wigan have taken just one point from the last 18.  At the moment we have 8 wins, 8 defeats and 10 draws - very much mid-table form and a platform on which to build.

I think if we are going to build we need to have a positive January window and finish as strongly as we can this season.