Defence

[alcd]

Rodwell failed to track any of Assombolongas runs and was nowhere to be seen for the goal. He just doesn't understand how to play CB

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

24 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I called it that you can’t play two cultured centre halves together nowadays. They’re the worst partnership I’ve seen in some time.

Pretty certain they both played together against Wigan away which was another masterclass in defending.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On 16/02/2019 at 08:22, JacknOry said:

Of course we need to stick with TM, as despite his flailings, you have to say we have progressed season on season with him in charge. Relegated on a record points haul by GD with his points per game average putting us midtable, so that relegation was not down to him. We then bounced straight back up and are now consolodating with a probably midtable finish.

Progress each season. That said, I can see why some might not see him as being able to take us to the next level which is to challenge in the top half and potentially break into the top six. He deserves the chance though and unless we really start going backwards he should be in charge.

You don't think we're going backwards at the moment ? 

[roversfan99]

I would even go as far as saying that even if Reed became available, we shouldnt buy him before we have done a major overhaul of our defence.

There are 2 elements to it, im unconvinced that Mowbray has the organisational capacity to sort the defence, but also much of it is individual errors because Mowbray has neglected the defence in his recruitment and indeed the only 3 I would keep around, Nyambe, Mulgrew and Lenihan all pre-date Mowbrays appointment.

It cannot be a job for 1 or 2 signings to be brought in as cover, as sticking plasters. We need a revamp but can you see Mowbray for example doing a Wilder and splashing 4m on an Egan? I cant. Weve essentially got 5 defenders (Williams and Bell too, sadly) and beyond that we move midfielders into our defence which quite simply cannot be done with regularity or it will do what it is doing now, costing us goals. 

[Madon]

I'd be chucking this Magloire lad in now, nothing to lose. Mulgrew and Rodwell as a pairing is an absolute disaster, the titanic turned quicker. 

[DeeCee]

If I was Reed I'd be looking to go elsewhere tbh

[Oldgregg86]

4 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I called it that you can’t play two cultured centre halves together nowadays. They’re the worst partnership I’ve seen in some time.

Think peacock and dailly have to take that accolade for me

[tomphil]

Rodwell had one good game and scored in another but looked average before that and poor since yet many would've had him tied to a 3 year contract on the back of about 140 mins decent defending.

Square pegs for square holes please if they are going to tie up that kind of money, Wes Brown he ain't but the answer to our defensive problems he isn't either. Both him and Mulgrew are quality footballers but they aren't quality defenders.

[Fraserkirky]

On 15/02/2019 at 07:44, Bigdoggsteel said:

The more I think about it, the more I keep thinking the solution could be 3 at the back. I just don't see Lenihan and Mulgrew leaving or being dropped. With the 2 of them and Rodwell, 3 at the back could work, in theory. We need an experienced and physical center half to be added to the mix anyway regardless. 

Yeah we have seen first hand from  Sheff Utd and Boro, and I think maybe Brentford, how effective the 3-5-2 can be in this league. That’s what I would do for next season but we havent got 2 centre backs to play right now nevermind  3, so it will have to wait. The 3-5-2 will allow you to play dack a bit deeper but still as an attacking midfielder. 

I’d be looking at bringing in at least 2 proper centre halves, and creating some competition back there, rather than people keeping their places through default. All three of our centre halfs have had shocking errors this season over various games. Wonder how that Patrick Bauer fella has is getting on at Charlton.

I’d have Nyambe as my right wing back and Bennett on the bench backing that spot. Have Bell and a new signing compete for LWB.

Launch Del

So CB, CB and LWB.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Fraserkirky

[JacknOry]

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You don't think we're going backwards at the moment ? 

We've obviously faltered but I think this is mainly because we have given up on the season now - subconsciously at least. TMs comments certainly dont help in that sense as it sounds like he has given up on it too and that filters through to the players. Not going up, not going down - end of season. Then you have the odd selections of late and you can understand why the players are a little confused with it all.

Mission has been accomplished though on expectations so we have still gone forward this season. Test will be next season as I would expect further improvement. 

[blueboy3333]

None of us know what Mowbray's targets were so its hard to say if expectations have been met. He came out with a quote a month or two ago about 'educating' Venkys to the need for a 'slow build'. That would suggest they want promotion ASAP and have told him as much. It would also explain the sudden willingness from them to spend big money. He may not be under pressure but I doubt they'll be happy with 19th place or wherever we end up and getting smashed away from home every other week.

In the post match interview yesterday he looked embarrassed and out of excuses, and so he should. That first half was pathetic. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by blueboy3333

[BlackburnEnd75]

I thought Rodwell played okay yesterday. Mulgrew had his worst game for Rovers, he was really poor and continually got caught out with balls over the top. I don't think that was helped either by some of the positions that Williams takes up.

Some of the criticisms i've read here that Rodwell wasn't aggressive enough and that the Titanic turned quicker are extremely harsh and should be aimed at Mulgrew not Rodwell. I'd be dropping Mulgrew next week to send a message even if that means we have to blood Magloire. 

Rodwell at the moment has a lot of individual traits of a very good centre back but can't quite put it all together, his positioning is not quite there yet. I'd keep starting him and working on him in training and then at the end of the season if he doesn't progress then we release him.

Nyambe has to come straight back into the team next week. Interesting that Rich Sharpe said that Mowbray had told him that he  taken him out of the firing line after the Birmingham collapse at home. But that was a long time ago now and for all his faults he's an actual right back unlike Bennett who we need on one of the wings.

Bell needs to start at left back until the end of the season after which we can buy a new left back, Bell can stay as backup. Williams should be fired from a cannon into the sun .

With all the talk about how many goals we concede late on in games I didn't realise how poor our record actually was (worst outside the bottom 3, 1 less than Bolton). If we are to do anything other than stay up next season then we need at least 2 defensive additions probably 3 really.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I thought Rodwell played okay yesterday. Mulgrew had his worst game for Rovers, he was really poor and continually got caught out with balls over the top. I don't think that was helped either by some of the positions that Williams takes up.

Some of the criticisms i've read here that Rodwell wasn't aggressive enough and that the Titanic turned quicker are extremely harsh and should be aimed at Mulgrew not Rodwell. I'd be dropping Mulgrew next week to send a message even if that means we have to blood Magloire. 

Rodwell at the moment has a lot of individual traits of a very good centre back but can't quite put it all together, his positioning is not quite there yet. I'd keep starting him and working on him in training and then at the end of the season if he doesn't progress then we release him.

Nyambe has to come straight back into the team next week. Interesting that Rich Sharpe said that Mowbray had told him that he  taken him out of the firing line after the Birmingham collapse at home. But that was a long time ago now and for all his faults he's an actual right back unlike Bennett who we need on one of the wings.

Bell needs to start at left back until the end of the season after which we can buy a new left back, Bell can stay as backup. Williams should be fired from a cannon into the sun .

With all the talk about how many goals we concede late on in games I didn't realise how poor our record actually was (worst outside the bottom 3, 1 less than Bolton). If we are to do anything other than stay up next season then we need at least 2 defensive additions probably 3 really.

 

I wonder is it down to fitness?  Laissez-faire Mowbray and his back room team strike again 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

                      Raya

Nyambe    Lenihan New  New

 

Bench 

Mulgrew

Bell

Rodwell 

2 crucial signings needed during the summer. 

[JacknOry]

28 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I thought Rodwell played okay yesterday. Mulgrew had his worst game for Rovers, he was really poor and continually got caught out with balls over the top. I don't think that was helped either by some of the positions that Williams takes up.

Some of the criticisms i've read here that Rodwell wasn't aggressive enough and that the Titanic turned quicker are extremely harsh and should be aimed at Mulgrew not Rodwell. I'd be dropping Mulgrew next week to send a message even if that means we have to blood Magloire. 

Rodwell at the moment has a lot of individual traits of a very good centre back but can't quite put it all together, his positioning is not quite there yet. I'd keep starting him and working on him in training and then at the end of the season if he doesn't progress then we release him.

Nyambe has to come straight back into the team next week. Interesting that Rich Sharpe said that Mowbray had told him that he  taken him out of the firing line after the Birmingham collapse at home. But that was a long time ago now and for all his faults he's an actual right back unlike Bennett who we need on one of the wings.

Bell needs to start at left back until the end of the season after which we can buy a new left back, Bell can stay as backup. Williams should be fired from a cannon into the sun .

With all the talk about how many goals we concede late on in games I didn't realise how poor our record actually was (worst outside the bottom 3, 1 less than Bolton). If we are to do anything other than stay up next season then we need at least 2 defensive additions probably 3 really.

 

Or play him in the position every other manager has, where he was bought for 15 million to play and earned an England call-up. Rodwell sees himself as a CB and wants to play there but seemingly nobody else has so far. TM is willing to let him have a go at making it there and he has had some decent performances back there but he is better alongside Lenihan or another bruiser type rather than Mulgrew. The latter is just too similar.

If we were to not keep a hold of Reed, Rodwell and Travis as a pairing might work in CM.

Edited February 18, 2019 by JacknOry

[BlackburnEnd75]

29 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Or play him in the position every other manager has, where he was bought for 15 million to play and earned an England call-up. Rodwell sees himself as a CB and wants to play there but seemingly nobody else has so far. TM is willing to let him have a go at making it there and he has had some decent performances back there but he is better alongside Lenihan or another bruiser type rather than Mulgrew. The latter is just too similar.

If we were to not keep a hold of Reed, Rodwell and Travis as a pairing might work in CM.

He's never going to be an asset for us in centre mid. I know it'd be great if he could play that role for us but theres a reason why he's rocked up here at 27 when he should be at his peak, thats because he's can't be that player any more. He has to adapt to his new role to continue his career, his body can't handle playing 90 mins in centre mid week in week out, it can barely handle playing CB.

I agree that him and Mulgrew are too similar but that's happened due to Lenihan's injury and poor recruitment, really he should be vying for Mulgrews place at left cb and after Mulgrews performance on Sunday he should be ahead of him.

 

[bluebruce]

On Fri Feb 15 2019 at 12:35, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't know lads, what setting up is there in a straight back 4? You have two international centre halves, one is our club captain and extremely experienced. Should they now be able to organise the defence themselves? 

We have seen individual error after individual error this season, again, what can the manager do? In my opinion if those there aren't able to play in a straight back 4 and cut out the individual errors, then they need to be replaced. That's the managers job. I don't buy this stuff about them not being coached to defend. 

If you have a colleague who is crap at doing their job, is it your managers fault? Where is the personal responsibility here. 

It can be your manager's fault in a way, yes, for not addressing it. I've been a team coach at my workplace and been able to get serious improvements from people by highlighting weaknesses in their performance and working on those with them. That's the entire point of a management and coaching infrastructure.

An awful lot of the errors I've seen when conceding our goals are positional errors. For me, that can at least partially be coached.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It can be your manager's fault in a way, yes, for not addressing it. I've been a team coach at my workplace and been able to get serious improvements from people by highlighting weaknesses in their performance and working on those with them. That's the entire point of a management and coaching infrastructure.

An awful lot of the errors I've seen when conceding our goals are positional errors. For me, that can at least partially be coached.

It can to a point, but not if the staff just don't have the capacity. 

[bluebruce]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

It can to a point, but not if the staff just don't have the capacity. 

If you mean coaching staff that was pretty much my point. If you meant playing staff, potentially they can be limited in being able to take it in, but professional footballers at this level should be capable of learning it. If they're not, TM needs to stop with the quotes suggesting they don't need replacing.

For what it's worth I do also think a couple of them need replacing. But I'm also suspecting they haven't been coached completely right. There should be frustration from TM if we've been trying to drill positional sense in for 2 years and this is what we get. Instead he showed no intention of signing replacements so I don't think this is the issue.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, bluebruce said:

If you mean coaching staff that was pretty much my point. If you meant playing staff, potentially they can be limited in being able to take it in, but professional footballers at this level should be capable of learning it. If they're not, TM needs to stop with the quotes suggesting they don't need replacing.

For what it's worth I do also think a couple of them need replacing. But I'm also suspecting they haven't been coached completely right. There should be frustration from TM if we've been trying to drill positional sense in for 2 years and this is what we get. Instead he showed no intention of signing replacements so I don't think this is the issue.

Yes, you are right. If they can't be coached to be better, then he needs to replace them. 

I am starting to suspect we aren't as well coached as other teams and I won't go on about diet again, but I think that would suggest we are a bit behind where we need to be in that area also. Mowbray seems to trust the players to set their own standards, but when I hear our star man saying he eats a fry up on match day, it sets alarm bells off for me. 

The coaching issue also stretches to fitness levels, as does diet. Why do we concede so many late goals? Both could be a factor

 

[bluebruce]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, you are right. If they can't be coached to be better, then he needs to replace them. 

I am starting to suspect we aren't as well coached as other teams and I won't go on about diet again, but I think that would suggest we are a bit behind where we need to be in that area also. Mowbray seems to trust the players to set their own standards, but when I hear our star man saying he eats a fry up on match day, it sets alarm bells off for me. 

The coaching issue also stretches to fitness levels, as does diet. Why do we concede so many late goals? Both could be a factor

 

Dack said he eats a fry up on match day? Where was that?

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Dack said he eats a fry up on match day? Where was that?

On soccer Am. Oldgregg shared the video in the Boro match thread.

Youtube is blocked for me here 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[bluebruce]

9 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

On soccer Am. Oldgregg shared the video in the Boro match thread.

Youtube is blocked for me here 

 

Jesus...any chance he was joking? That's completely unacceptable in this day and age, especially for a player who looks unfit.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Jesus...any chance he was joking? That's completely unacceptable in this day and age, especially for a player who looks unfit.

Watch it. He definitely wasn't joking. 

[G Somerset Rover]

Weird how this is true for Nyambe yet not Williams and Bennett after several shockers in a row too:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17441498.tony-mowbray-on-the-absence-of-rovers-full-back-ryan-nyambe/