ROVERS v Boro

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It might sound obvious - but it all comes down to taking chances. It is a bit chicken and egg - because we don't make the most of our chances it puts additional pressure on our defence. You could argue vice versa - but in lots of matches we seem to miss chances at key times prior to conceding .

Against Hull they had a good chance to take the lead - they missed it and we went to win comfortably. Against Reading we should have scored at least one prior to them scoring - again a different match. Brentford - we had chance to make it 3-0 and missed it - again would have been a different match. Even yesterday  - we had more than one chance to make it 1-1 while Boro continued to miss chances at our goal.

This division is extremely tight - I don't think there is much to choose between most teams.

Blimey, they were in a completely different class to us yesterday, and whilst we missed a couple of very good chances right at the end they could and maybe should have scored at least 5 or 6.

2-5 or 2-6 certainly wouldn't have flattered them.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It might sound obvious - but it all comes down to taking chances. It is a bit chicken and egg - because we don't make the most of our chances it puts additional pressure on our defence. You could argue vice versa - but in lots of matches we seem to miss chances at key times prior to conceding .

Against Hull they had a good chance to take the lead - they missed it and we went to win comfortably. Against Reading we should have scored at least one prior to them scoring - again a different match. Brentford - we had chance to make it 3-0 and missed it - again would have been a different match. Even yesterday  - we had more than one chance to make it 1-1 while Boro continued to miss chances at our goal.

This division is extremely tight - I don't think there is much to choose between most teams.

I think a bigger problem for us is keeping a solid defence. No matter how many chances we take or goals we score we'll struggle until we stop conceding at the rate we have been doing. Since that Hull clean sheet and excellent performance we've conceded 9 goals in 4 games against mediocre opposition. In the case of the home fixtures v Bristol and Middlesbrough only 2 conceded but that's to be expected given the way we set up at home. We are extremely negative and cautious at home which means no matter who we play we'll be relatively difficult to break down. Away from home we've conceded 7 in 2 against bottom 3rd sides in Brentford and Reading, despite having put ourselves into decent positions in both games (2-0 up after 10 minutes at Brentford, comfortable at 0-0 and on top at 1-1 at Reading) yet have managed to collapse under pressure at both.

Big question marks for me on the way we handle pressure and our defensive duties particularly away from home.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, arbitro said:

A few weeks ago we played a high intensity, fast passing game against Hull when the consensus of opinion was that it was the best we have played under Mowbray. Since then (10 minutes at Brentford aside) we have been as poor as we have under Mowbray. Has something happened in the interim to cause such an extreme change in form? None of us really know but Mowbray needs to get to the bottom of it. If it's players then weed them out and get shut. If it's him he needs to perhaps review his methods and coaching. Whatever it is (and clearly there is something wrong) it can't be allowed to fester otherwise there is only one way we are going.

I do think it's more a case of the players not being up to Championship standard on the whole rather than the manager and his coaching methods myself. Although the team selection was ridiculous yesterday too and he should take some blame. We're about where we should be when you look at our players in my opinion. However the buck starts and ends at the poor recruitment from Mowbray in this regard. A fact he all but acknowledged in his interview last week after the Switzerland trip. The BB signing seems more and more like it was over his head based on his comments that they need to bring in players better than what we've currently got all over the team. He said he knows he's been too loyal to the promotion winners but wanted to give them a fair chance. Commendable in ways but we've wasted a chance to kick on under the upward momentum of last season. Yesterday's back 4 was the worst I've seen us have as a collective 4, ever. 2 of whom were out of position.

 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Mellor Rover said:

. However the buck starts and ends at the poor recruitment from Mowbray in this regard. A fact he all but acknowledged in his interview last week after the Switzerland trip

Mowbray has never acknowledged anything is his fault. In the interview you mention he was bemoaning the fact we don't have a foreign scout and that Venkys needed to invest in the infrastructure. He was putting any blame he was getting firmly at Venky's door. Tony doesn't do culpability. 

[arbitro]

27 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

It might sound obvious - but it all comes down to taking chances. It is a bit chicken and egg - because we don't make the most of our chances it puts additional pressure on our defence. You could argue vice versa - but in lots of matches we seem to miss chances at key times prior to conceding .

Against Hull they had a good chance to take the lead - they missed it and we went to win comfortably. Against Reading we should have scored at least one prior to them scoring - again a different match. Brentford - we had chance to make it 3-0 and missed it - again would have been a different match. Even yesterday  - we had more than one chance to make it 1-1 while Boro continued to miss chances at our goal.

This division is extremely tight - I don't think there is much to choose between most teams.

But that doesn't explain how the intensity has dropped off alarmingly, the passing has been woeful and a sedentary pace.

[Guest]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray has never acknowledged anything is his fault. In the interview you mention he was bemoaning the fact we don't have a foreign scout and that Venkys needed to invest in the infrastructure. He was putting any blame he was getting firmly at Venky's door. Tony doesn't do culpability. 

It was badly worded but this was more aimed at him admitting he'd been too loyal to his promotion bunch in the last couple of windows. But as you say, he quickly flipped it to the fact we have no foreign players despite him claiming he wants only English players as they understand the league more in an interview not long ago. Will try find when i get 10 minutes.

Also, if we currently have no foreign scouts, the season ends in 3 months... So who are they gonna be scouting?! I don't expect to see any signings from Europe until at least next January.

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

 

Also, if we currently have no foreign scouts, the season ends in 3 months... So who are they gonna be scouting?! I don't expect to see any signings from Europe until at least next January.

Exactly, if it is make or break for Mowbray this summer and he can't afford decent British players then he's fooked. He's not going to be able to set up a euro scouting system in 3 months without any scouts. It really still is a joke of a club. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I felt Dack was the only player in the 1st half who show any sort of desire or working hard. 

2nd half he worked hard. 

Dack not the problem today 

He tried no doubt, so credit for that. However his quality on the ball was non existent. His first meaningful pass forward he put straight out of play. Armstrong was about 4 meters away from him. 

He was dropping far too deep. He may as well have been shielding the back four at times. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

21 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

It was badly worded but this was more aimed at him admitting he'd been too loyal to his promotion bunch in the last couple of windows. But as you say, he quickly flipped it to the fact we have no foreign players despite him claiming he wants only English players as they understand the league more in an interview not long ago. Will try find when i get 10 minutes.

Also, if we currently have no foreign scouts, the season ends in 3 months... So who are they gonna be scouting?! I don't expect to see any signings from Europe until at least next January.

Or we could try and sign some scouts with experience of the European Market. I am sure Brentford have a few. 

[Guest]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Or we could try and sign some scouts with experience of the European Market. I am sure Brentford have a few. 

True. Maybe they know some CM's that can play CB and Strikers that hate playing on the wings we can sign.

[Bbrovers2288]

46 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

I do think it's more a case of the players not being up to Championship standard on the whole rather than the manager and his coaching methods myself. Although the team selection was ridiculous yesterday too and he should take some blame. We're about where we should be when you look at our players in my opinion. However the buck starts and ends at the poor recruitment from Mowbray in this regard. A fact he all but acknowledged in his interview last week after the Switzerland trip. The BB signing seems more and more like it was over his head based on his comments that they need to bring in players better than what we've currently got all over the team. He said he knows he's been too loyal to the promotion winners but wanted to give them a fair chance. Commendable in ways but we've wasted a chance to kick on under the upward momentum of last season. Yesterday's back 4 was the worst I've seen us have as a collective 4, ever. 2 of whom were out of position.

 

Think your taking a bit of a leap by stating these points were what mowbray was saying in the interview, maybe that’s what you wanted to hear. I certainly would be glad to have him say it but he didn’t actually mention anything that your stating here, all guesswork 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Anyway, on Dack. I mentioned  before that Mulgrew said in an interview that he eats a lot of mayonnaise. Well Dack himself said on soccer am on youtube that his pre game breakfast is a full English. 

Can someone please get him linked up with a dietician. I find it hard to believe a player at this level does now see the problem with eating like this. 

Am I over reacting? 

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Graham has been a great signing for the club, and believe me I do appreciate him but these days he is no longer a top champ striker. He never was the quickest but he is even less mobile these days. And he should’ve buried that chance, went with the wrong foot. 

Again I appreciate dack, love when he is on song but too often he looks disinterested and tries to beat three men himself before losing the ball. There was an instance today where he just plainly kicked it right out of play. I feel that we are over reliant on him, off song then we struggle. If we have to sell for the good of the team and get 2-3 game changers in off the back of his fee then that’s what I would do. We need to have a stronger all round unit than individuals 

He should have buried that chance or at least done better but he did very well to fashion it in the first place and was off balance. But it wasnt his age or physical condition that caused him to miss. He kept going until the end and continues to belittle his age, he is capable of playing games in quick succession as I proved he has done already the other day and he looks to be as sharp and fit as he ever has been, as he says himself. We do need a credible alternative to him but thats more due to the lack of quality of Brereton and Nuttall, whilst Samuel was unable to add a credible alternative in League 1 and is not the answer either.

My biggest frustration with Dack was his positioning yesterday and that was down to the manager. He is currently in poor form but the numbers he provides are underapreciated in terms of goals and assists. We play direct percentage based football that doesnt suit flair players but he continues to thrive and you look at the numbers of those around him, Armstrong had a superb month in an otherwise poor season, and the rest (Brereton, Rothwell etc) havent contributed at all. You underestimate Dacks contributions and also the ease of signing "game changers."

The Dack and Graham combination is the aspect of the team that I have the most confidence in and is in least need of changing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Anyway, on Dack. I mentioned  before that Mulgrew said in an interview that he eats a lot of mayonnaise. Well Dack himself said on soccer am on youtube that his pre game breakfast is a full English. 

Can someone please get him linked up with a dietician. I find it hard to believe a player at this level does now see the problem with eating like this. 

Am I over reacting? 

No you're not. The correct Diet for a sportsman is vital. I wonder just how seriously Dack takes his career ?

[Guest]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

Think your taking a bit of a leap by stating these points were what mowbray was saying in the interview, maybe that’s what you wanted to hear. I certainly would be glad to have him say it but he didn’t actually mention anything that your stating here, all guesswork 

He did state that he needs investment though and suggested that he wasn't given enough when he said that:

“At this moment I’m being tasked with trying to take us back there. If it is going to be me than I need the support to do it.

“Otherwise, as has been at clubs I have been at in the past, you don’t quite win enough games, someone else comes in, gets £50m to spend and they get the glory of ‘what a great manager’ when they get back in to the Premier League. That’s football.

“Here I am travelling to Europe to try and get some help from the owners"

That isn't a quote of a man given £10million in summer to spend on 2 strikers.

He also backs my point that i stated about him being loyal to promotion winners when he says:

“At this moment this is practically the same team that got promoted from League One. I know I have been very protective of this team because of the individuals and the character, but I also know we have to help them along the way and we have to bring in players who can make the team better.

“If some of the players in the team currently fall by the wayside because player A is better than them, footballers accept that. I was a player and know that if someone comes in and is better in training and you see that every day, there’s no problem when the manager puts him in the team.”

So I'd say the opposite of your point that he didn't say anything I stated.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Anyway, on Dack. I mentioned  before that Mulgrew said in an interview that he eats a lot of mayonnaise. Well Dack himself said on soccer am on youtube that his pre game breakfast is a full English. 

Can someone please get him linked up with a dietician. I find it hard to believe a player at this level does now see the problem with eating like this. 

Am I over reacting? 

If he looked unfit i would agree. But I'd hazard a guess that in every single game he probably tops our running charts after Travis/Reed. He certainly put in his fair shift against Middlesborough too.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No you're not. The correct Diet for a sportsman is vital. I wonder just how seriously Dack takes his career ?

If I was to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would say maybe he doesn't know any better. Then it's up to the club to sort it out. 

If he is on Soccer am saying he has a fry before a game he either doesn't know its bad or doesn't care if anyone knows because it's obviously not a problem. 

Mowbray is old school, I wonder does he think a pre game fry is OK? 

A fry before a game makes no sense. There are little to carbs in it for energy. I bet he probably has ketchup with it and white bread too. 

I highly doubt the Leeds, Norwich and Sheffield United players are gorging on mayo and fry ups before games. 

Honestly I was in shock when I heard him say it on youtube. I wouldn't have a fry if I was going playing 5 a side. It couldn't sit well in the stomach. Bizzare stuff really. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mellor Rover said:

If he looked unfit i would agree. But I'd hazard a guess that in every single game he probably tops our running charts after Travis/Reed. He certainly put in his fair shift against Middlesborough too.

Perhaps he does, but how good would he be if wasn't eating mayo and fry ups before games? 

He doesn't look fit. At times he looks  a bit chubby. 

I'm not doubting his ability. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

I'm not blaming Dack for anything by the way, my point is that is this kind of unprofessional diet stuff representative of a wider laissez-faire managerial approach? 

I think it might be. 

Imagine a warnock team played like yesterday. A few lads Cardiff careers would be over. In fact I think his players would be too afraid to show such a lack of effort as they know what they would get in the dressing room after the game. 

Mowbray said they will discuss it monday and try to get to the bottom of what happened. All very nice and relaxed sounding. You wouldn't think we had just lost 4 games in a row. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Neal]

2 very simple problems that aren't easily fixed. Before I start, when I say "good enough" I mean to match the managers aspirations of being promoted. 

 

Firstly... An issue that has been the same all season. No matter what midfield pairing we play we never seem to control possession. Correct me if I misheard but I'm sure the SS commentators said we had the lowest possession stats in the league. We are always chasing after possession and never controlling it. It comes back to that old saying "if we have they can't score". We never make teams work for possession... Why? We play too many long balls, our general passing is not good enough and our movement is not good enough because the players we have are not good enough, therefore the ball keeps coming straight back at us. If you keep giving away possession then you will concede cheap goals, it's a pretty simple concept. 

 

Secondly... Our defenders aren't good enough. Charlie is on his way out now, Bell has no defensive brain, Williams and Bennett aren't full backs. We lack vital experience and leadership at the back and in midfield, having this can help you organise better and see more games out. We're far too naive both on and off the pitch, the amount of goals we've conceded that required someone to take a yellow card and commit a professional foul would have seen us further up the league. Also naivety from the manager to not see these issues and sort it out,  hopefully he will in the summer. 

 

[47er]

45 minutes ago, arbitro said:

But that doesn't explain how the intensity has dropped off alarmingly, the passing has been woeful and a sedentary pace.

Or the lack of ideas. Mulgrew hits it long to the right wing at head height where any of three defenders can take it before our one or Rovers defender hits it long and high for Graham who flicks it to------them! Has to be because there's no other Rovers player around. Credit to Graham though, I wouldn't fancy spending an afternoon doing that.

Apart from one or two moves on the left involving Armstrong, what else did we offer going forward?

This is pub football masquerading as professional sport.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, 47er said:

Or the lack of ideas. Mulgrew hits it long to the right wing at head height where any of three defenders can take it before our one or Rovers defender hits it long and high for Graham who flicks it to------them! Has to be because there's no other Rovers player around. Credit to Graham though, I wouldn't fancy spending an afternoon doing that.

Apart from one or two moves on the left involving Armstrong, what else did we offer going forward?

This is pub football masquerading as professional sport.

And embarrassing that it was played out live on sky 

[Guest]

Just now, Neal said:

2 very simple problems that aren't easily fixed. Before I start, when I say "good enough" I mean to match the managers aspirations of being promoted. 

 

Firstly... An issue that has been the same all season. No matter what midfield pairing we play we never seem to control possession. Correct me if I misheard but I'm sure the SS commentators said we had the lowest possession stats in the league. We are always chasing after possession and never controlling it. It comes back to that old saying "if we have they can't score". We never make teams work for possession... Why? We play too many long balls, our general passing is not good enough and our movement is not good enough because the players we have are not good enough, therefore the ball keeps coming straight back at us. If you keep giving away possession then you will concede cheap goals, it's a pretty simple concept. 

 

Secondly... Our defenders aren't good enough. Charlie is on his way out now, Bell has no defensive brain, Williams and Bennett aren't full backs. We lack vital experience and leadership at the back and in midfield, having this can help you organise better and see more games out. We're far too naive both on and off the pitch, the amount of goals we've conceded that required someone to take a yellow card and commit a professional foul would have seen us further up the league. Also naivety from the manager to not see these issues and sort it out,  hopefully he will in the summer. 

 

Was about Boro, said they dominated the ball which was strange as they average one of the lowest possession %'s in the league. We actually average pretty good possession stats (around 12th last time i checked). But this was only an average of 50.3% so we hardly keep the ball well as you say.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, 47er said:

Or the lack of ideas. Mulgrew hits it long to the right wing at head height where any of three defenders can take it before our one or Rovers defender hits it long and high for Graham who flicks it to------them! Has to be because there's no other Rovers player around. Credit to Graham though, I wouldn't fancy spending an afternoon doing that.

Apart from one or two moves on the left involving Armstrong, what else did we offer going forward?

This is pub football masquerading as professional sport.

Playing up front with no support, just dealing with aimless long passes ? The biggest arse kicking job in football. It's soul destroying.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

They've paid 1.75 and whatever the first instalments on BB were, something similar i'd imagine so an outlay of of around 3-3.5 million over the summer and Jan windows so far - peanuts mate ?

As for your other point yep totally agree and there's only one door that lies at - Mr Complicator.

Even so thats an outlay of £5 million plus wages. For a club who has been penalised for financial problems not peanuts