Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

 

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

All true, apart from the crucial part. Dacks final execution of a pass or finish is miles in front of Rothwell. For now anyway.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

It is going to take a lot of investment to get this team into serious contention for promotion next season, so I would be surprised if we weren't going to go through another season of consolidation.

I wondered how it would be until 'next season' and 'consolidation' appeared. TM has already spoken of a promotion push so anything else will be a poor do. 

[bluebruce]

10 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

 

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

You'll acknowledge all of those are exaggerations though, except arguably the last two (which I'd say are on-and-off issues)? Yes I'd put Rothwell ahead of Dack on those counts, but no speed means he literally doesn't move. Can't beat a man front on means he literally never does, etc.

The way you've phrased it makes him sound so poor he wouldn't get into our U-23s. He was crap against Norwich, and has had iffy performances sprinkled throughout the season, but we shouldn't totally re-write the script on one of our best players, our most valuable player financially, on his first season in a new league when he clearly has some off-field issues going on too.

That's what seems to be happening lately, especially that crazy discussion about him only being worth £5 million.

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Such a shame Mercer isn’t allowed to have an opinion without being jumped on by the usual suspects.

I can see where he is coming from. Dack is a superb League One player But is he a superb Championship one, let alone PL standard? Probably not, and he has the kind of social life that would be an instant turn off to most top managers.

Joe Lolley hasn’t cost anyone a million yet. 10 goals, 11 assists. (3 and 3 in 16 games last season).

Will Vaulkes at Rotherham has 7 goals and 7 assists. £5m? Nope, valued at less than £1m.

Alan Browne (11 and 4) £5m? You’d be laughed at.

In the PL era, £5m isn’t big bucks but you need a PL club to come in for them. I don’t imagine they are climbing over each other for Dack. Championship clubs aren’t spending big money. There is better value than Dack around if the asking price is north of £5m.

On his day, he can be amazing. He’s had about two of his days this season. Aside from that he has been in the right place at the right time on many occasions. Such a frustrating player when you think how good he could be.

I saw a clip of him against Villa earlier in the season. Far leaner, quicker, fitter and more desire. He's really dropped off since then and him being back with his Mrs.

[RevidgeBlue]

33 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

 

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

Do give over, I like Rothwell but if Dack is properly fit, motivated and on his game he's on a completely different level to Rothwell. Admittedly that has been quite a big "if" this season though.

it's pretty pointless trying to compare Dack and Rothwell and claim one is better than the other imo. In our context we desperately need them both and to try to denigrate one at the expense of the other is about as pointless as debating whether Messi is better than Ronaldo or vice versa.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

I couldn't disagree more. Whilst Dack may lack, to an extent far less than you've depicted, some pace and consistency week to week, he has a much better final ball, much better shot and much better vision of the game than Rothwell.

Rothwell may be faster, but that's basically the only thing he has on Bradley Dack, which right now, puts him on a par with Armstrong and Chapman.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

I couldn't disagree more. Whilst Dack may lack, to an extent far less than you've depicted, some pace and consistency week to week, he has a much better final ball, much better shot and much better vision of the game than Rothwell.

Rothwell may be faster, but that's basically the only thing he has on Bradley Dack, which right now, puts him on a par with Armstrong and Chapman.

Not from what ive seen recently. T'other way around.

[Guest]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Not from what ive seen recently. T'other way around.

Rothwell flies a shot over the bar every single match, if not twice per game. He's just nowhere near as clinical in front of goal. The amount of shots, and the amount of said shots on target that BD has per game is just leagues above Rothwell right now.

[Sparks Rover]

50 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

All true, apart from the crucial part. Dacks final execution of a pass or finish is miles in front of Rothwell. For now anyway.

Really.? I thought Rothwell's recent goals have showed him to be an excellent finisher. That dink over the keeper. How many of them has Dack smacked into the keeper this season because he got there a second too slow.  One on one, I'd bet my money on Rothwell these days

 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Rothwell flies a shot over the bar every single match, if not twice per game. He's just nowhere near as clinical in front of goal. The amount of shots, and the amount of said shots on target that BD has per game is just leagues above Rothwell right now.

Rothwell gets you up off your seat, Dack is a lazy waster

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Rothwell flies a shot over the bar every single match, if not twice per game. He's just nowhere near as clinical in front of goal. The amount of shots, and the amount of said shots on target that BD has per game is just leagues above Rothwell right now.

Rothwell has only just started getting a game too....he will be one of our most important players next season...Dack will be down spearmint rhino on poppers

[Guest]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Rothwell gets you up off your seat, Dack is a lazy waster

Dack has over 20 goal contributions and Rothwell has scored one worldie. In time, I believe JR will be a much better player than BD, but it's silly to say he's there yet, with barely a third of a season under his belt playing time wise.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Dack has over 20 goal contributions and Rothwell has scored one worldie. In time, I believe JR will be a much better player than BD, but it's silly to say he's there yet, with barely a third of a season under his belt playing time wise.

He's there already. Mowbray just plays his boys as per the fact Travis should have been in the team at the beginning of the season instead of Tony's boys. It's no coincidence that since JR has been starting results have turned up.

[Guest]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He's there already. Mowbray just plays his boys as per the fact Travis should have been in the team at the beginning of the season instead of Tony's boys. It's no coincidence that since JR has been starting results have turned up.

You're presenting a very hopeful view of JR, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. I like him, and I think he clearly has talent. But to say he is better than somebody with stats that prove otherwise is nonsense. I'm not doubting that next season, he could push on and rival BD in the stats department, but right now, it's just wildly hopeful to claim JR is better than BD.

[bluebruce]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Rothwell gets you up off your seat, Dack is a lazy waster

I do get up off my seat when we score, personally.

[Pedro]

The criticism of Dack is way over the top. He does look unfit but he has contributed a hell of a lot over the last two seasons. Value for money in buckets.

 

He could and should be fitter and more consistent though.

[bluebruce]

4 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

Rothwell flies a shot over the bar every single match, if not twice per game. He's just nowhere near as clinical in front of goal. The amount of shots, and the amount of said shots on target that BD has per game is just leagues above Rothwell right now.

I was curious if the stats bore that out...I found a site claiming Joe has had 17 shots for each goal he has scored this season.

It says he has had 34 shots this season, 13 of them on target. I make that 38% accuracy. I think these stats were across all competitions.

Dack has 52% of his shots on target this season, purely in the league, according to the BBC. 8.54 shots per goal according to fctables.com. Their stats imply (after a little maths) his shooting accuracy was 36.75% though, oddly. Since this is the same site I got Joe's accuracy from, this seems a fair comparison.

Different stat but the same site said Rothwell had an 82% pass completion, which is very respectable and better than I expected since he can be a bit rash sometimes. Dack's was 79%.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

I was curious if the stats bore that out...I found a site claiming Joe has had 17 shots for each goal he has scored this season.

It says he has had 34 shots this season, 13 of them on target. I make that 38% accuracy. I think these stats were across all competitions.

Dack has 52% of his shots on target this season, purely in the league, according to the BBC. 8.54 shots per goal according to fctables.com. Their stats imply (after a little maths) his shooting accuracy was 36.75% though, oddly. Since this is the same site I got Joe's accuracy from, this seems a fair comparison.

Different stat but the same site said Rothwell had an 82% pass completion, which is very respectable and better than I expected since he can be a bit rash sometimes. Dack's was 79%.

But passing statistics when one person has played not even a third of the amount of game time as another person is just silly to compare. Over a full season of 46 games, 79% passing accuracy is much better than 82% over less than a third of that. Over a full season, Rothwell would be highly unlikely to maintain that percentage. Dack's pass percentage rate includes MANY more games in which we played badly as a team, such as Bristol City (A), Brentford (A), Preston (A) and Wigan (A) - in which Joe Rothwell either didn't feature in, or featured in less so.

This was my original point anyway. Next year, I'm confident that JR could go on to be as good as Dack, but without a full season to prove it so, it's rash to say he is now already.

[Neal]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Sensible sustained investment ?

Wouldn't be adverse to spending on a good striker though because we are going to need one soon.

Plenty that would do a job in the European market that wouldn't cost the earth. Santa Cruz and Mccarthy were both good ones as an example. 

 

Sensible investment I've always found to be one of the things Rovers used to do well. Brereton went against that, I hope Mowbray has learned a valuable lesson there. 

[bluebruce]

11 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

But passing statistics when one person has played not even a third of the amount of game time as another person is just silly to compare. Over a full season of 46 games, 79% passing accuracy is much better than 82% over less than a third of that. Over a full season, Rothwell would be highly unlikely to maintain that percentage. Dack's pass percentage rate includes MANY more games in which we played badly as a team, such as Bristol City (A), Brentford (A), Preston (A) and Wigan (A) - in which Joe Rothwell either didn't feature in, or featured in less so.

This was my original point anyway. Next year, I'm confident that JR could go on to be as good as Dack, but without a full season to prove it so, it's rash to say he is now already.

It's never silly to compare unless we're talking literally a handful of games. By your logic, it's silly to compare Rothwell's shooting to Dack's too, statistically or anecdotally, hell, maybe any aspect of his game, because we've only seen him for a third of a season. But we can only go off what we have so far (same with Brereton).

I wasn't trying to make any point with the statistics, I was just presenting them to add to the debate, for flavour. For what it's worth my impression has been that Dack is a better passer and shooter than Rothwell, ie, I agree with you. I've never felt statistics in general paint the whole picture - some players attempt riskier passes which have bigger pay-offs, for starters. Some players get to have more shots in the area at close range because that's where they patrol.

Edited April 30, 2019 by bluebruce

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

It's never silly to compare unless we're talking literally a handful of games. By your logic, it's silly to compare Rothwell's shooting to Dack's too, statistically or anecdotally, hell, maybe any aspect of his game, because we've only seen him for a third of a season. But we can only go off what we have so far (same with Brereton).

I wasn't trying to make any point with the statistics, I was just presenting them to add to the debate, for flavour. For what it's worth my impression has been that Dack is a better passer and shooter than Rothwell, ie, I agree with you. I've never felt statistics in general paint the whole picture - some players attempt riskier passes which have bigger pay-offs, for starters. Some players get to have more shots in the area at close range because that's where they patrol.

I think it is silly to compare, because Rothwell hasn't played enough. Dack is clearly a better player right now, stats say that, market value says that and pretty much every supporter would say so too. It doesn't mean however, over a full season next year that Joe Rothwell couldn't become as good as, if not better than, Dack.

[Fraserkirky]

16 hours ago, Swanson said:

Most likely...

So Mowbray apparently jetted off to Berlin after the Norwich game? Union Berlin played against HSV yesterday.

Had a peak at the Hamburger side, my god its littered with quality players. Checked a few formats.

Hwang Hee-Chan Right Winger on loan from Red Bull Salzburg.

Douglas Costa their left back is good.

Pollerscheck the 24 year old keeper is highly rated.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Fraserkirky

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

 

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

It’s a good point.

It would be interesting to see Rothwell played as a number 10 and Dack shunted out to a wing and asked to be more defensive minded, and see how they compare then.

Dack’s advantage is his low centre of gravity and his ability to keep the ball under pressure and time his passes well. Rothwell is far quicker and has a greater passing range. Where he is played means he is often shooting from further out that Dack but he can hit them.

Dack has been given every opportunity by Mowbray and has played based reputation and a knack for getting a goal or assist in every game or two, but does have frustrating, lazy spells, meanwhile Rothwell has had to fight for every minute.

[RV Blue]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not in the same league as Rothwell.  No speed, cant beat a man front on, defences have sussed him, no work rate, no pace, out of shape, bad attitude......everything Rothwell isn't.

 

Rothwell is a product of Utd and you can tell with his ball mastery.  Different level to Deck......in my opinion if course

Bullshit. Rothwell’s played what 10 games? And has been ineffective in more than half of those. Dack’s going through a period of poor form, but let’s not make things up.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Bullshit. Rothwell’s played what 10 games? And has been ineffective in more than half of those. Dack’s going through a period of poor form, but let’s not make things up.

I did caveat it as an opinion. Is my opinion bullshit? Your post is bullshit too

Edited April 30, 2019 by Sparks Rover