Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Miller11]

Just had a look who Brentford’s GK coach is, and it’s somebody called Iñaki Caña Pavón.

“He has also worked at a collection of clubs in Spain and in the academy of Futbol Club Barcelona, where he started as a player. Iñaki played for Barcelona C before moving in to coaching, having come through the ranks at the Catalan giants”

Not sure about timelines etc, but possible he could have worked with Raya at some point before.

 

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

A lot of specific calls there. Have you got a source regarding the standard of the goalkeeping coach? Or that Raya is ‘self taught’? Or even that Raya spends a lot of time watching videos? 

Specific calls?

Can you remind me who Ben Benson played for again, I’ve forgotten. I thought the answer was nobody. He’s younger than most decent goalkeepers, let alone coaches.

There’s an old saying round these parts: ‘them as can do, them as can’t teach’.

Stop being obtuse.

[Neal]

I'd sell Raya for decent money in a heartbeat. Easily replaceable. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

Specific calls?

Can you remind me who Ben Benson played for again, I’ve forgotten. I thought the answer was nobody. He’s younger than most decent goalkeepers, let alone coaches.

There’s an old saying round these parts: ‘them as can do, them as can’t teach’.

Stop being obtuse.

I’d call automatically assuming someone’s poor at their job due to stature/age obtuse, but each to their own!

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Neal said:

I'd sell Raya for decent money in a heartbeat. Easily replaceable. 

He’s not the finished article though - I don’t see the point in developing players to this level and cashing in cheap.

He might never improve, but 3m or something token now for a long term academy prospect isn’t even covering a years cost of the project.

[Tugayisgod]

Could possibly be some sort of swap deal with Daniel Bentley who in my opinion is a better option than Raya. While we're at it, take Yoann Barbet off their hands as well. 

Leutwilers extension makes sense now. He'll remain no 2 with a new number 1 coming in.

Mowbray has already stated contracted players may be allowed to leave if the deal suits. This could be the first of many

Edited May 18, 2019 by Tugayisgod

[Butty]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Being brutally honest I don't think Hanley really fits into that bracket. In both Newcastle and Norwich's promotion seasons he played less than a quarter of the full league schedule. The only times he's been a regular at Championship level is mid table with us and mid table with Norwich last season.  That's probably his level, so if we want to be in the promotion mix we'd at best be bringing Hanley on as a back up option rather than a starting CB. 

Hanley will more than likely cost a few million, if we are going too spend that on a centre half you want someone who’s going too be starting every week not a back-up option.. A fully fit and fired up Hanley is better than any defender we’ve currently got.

[bluebruce]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11676/11722913/brentford-make-enquiry-for-blackburn-goalkeeper-david-raya

Link to the sky article as I don't think it has been posted yet.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

What's sadly laughable is that the released players from Swansea who are deemed not good enough for them, would actually look like a decent summer recruitment for us.

Olsson, Fer, Narsaigh, Routledge and Bony. All 5 would probably improve our 18.

Crazy league we play in.

All 5 players have been released for financial reasons, with Swansea having spent all of their time since relegation trying to cut the wage bill down wherever possible. Nothing laughable about it.

37 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

A decent offer and I’m ok with raya going, he feels like he is constantly  one for the future without actually ever being reliable in the present, and we have enough long term projects. It would need to be a better replacement than fielding however, or Hart. John ruddy, Westwood , archer and I think we are winning. The overall feeling of opposition fans that iv spoke to re raya is that - your keeper has a mistake in him. If fans can sense that so can the players both our own and opposition. We need a more steady Eddie at the back for calmness when the storms come such as holding leads late on. 

Archer has been mentioned more than once and I find it very strange, a goalkeeper released by Millwall.

All the talk about Rayas age is very well but for me hes made far too many mistakes this season. There has been a lot of talk about Raya going into next season as number 1 but with a more "experienced" keeper pushing him.  You'd presume someone like Fielding would fit the bill for that role but for me it would be a complete hash of our goalkeeping situation to go in with 3 keepers, none of whom are particularly good (in Raya's case, potentially for now, we dont know) and in essence, would be a case of quantity over quality, you dont need 3 senior goalkeepers. If sacrificing Raya enabled us to get a better upgrade then I wouldnt be against the idea. The Leutweiler deal however will never make sense.

[Neal]

33 minutes ago, Biz said:

He’s not the finished article though - I don’t see the point in developing players to this level and cashing in cheap.

He might never improve, but 3m or something token now for a long term academy prospect isn’t even covering a years cost of the project.

He might, he might not but if the money is right we can cash in and probably upgrade for less and reinvest elsewhere. 

[SBlue]

45 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11676/11722913/brentford-make-enquiry-for-blackburn-goalkeeper-david-raya

Link to the sky article as I don't think it has been posted yet.

Dislike.

The kind of short-termism that saw us meekly surrender to bids for Cairney.

Would be gutted tbh. He’s had a rocky patch but at times he’s been unbeatable. And has years and years on his side.

Will be playing for a far bigger club than Brentford in a few years time and I’m sure most will agree that strengthening a divisional rival is never a good idea even if you don’t think he’s as good as I do.

[roversfan99]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Dislike.

The kind of short-termism that saw us meekly surrender to bids for Cairney.

Would be gutted tbh. He’s had a rocky patch but at times he’s been unbeatable. And has years and years on his side.

Will be playing for a far bigger club than Brentford in a few years time and I’m sure most will agree that strengthening a divisional rival is never a good idea even if you don’t think he’s as good as I do.

Don't think the Cairney comparison is accurate at all. He was sold for cheap primarily as we was going into a transfer embargo, that was the summer that a few went and the likes of Guthrie, Akpan, Koita and Delfouenso all came in. As far as we know, at the moment we are not under such restrictions. Also, Cairney had won player of the season here, he was undoubtedly at that time a strong aspect of our side, with potential, rather than a weakness with potential.

Rocky patch in my opinion doesn't accurately summarise his performances over the entire season either for me. I also never have felt he is unbeatable. He definitely has a quality reflex save in him (which keeper doesnt) but his overall game is very questionable, and crucially for a goalkeeper, he makes far, far too many mistakes to be relied upon. Of course he may improve, and ideally we could have him and a quality experienced keeper at the same time, but I wouldnt be gutted to see him leave I dont think.

[SBlue]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Don't think the Cairney comparison is accurate at all. He was sold for cheap primarily as we was going into a transfer embargo, that was the summer that a few went and the likes of Guthrie, Akpan, Koita and Delfouenso all came in. As far as we know, at the moment we are not under such restrictions. Also, Cairney had won player of the season here, he was undoubtedly at that time a strong aspect of our side, with potential, rather than a weakness with potential.

Rocky patch in my opinion doesn't accurately summarise his performances over the entire season either for me. I also never have felt he is unbeatable. He definitely has a quality reflex save in him (which keeper doesnt) but his overall game is very questionable, and crucially for a goalkeeper, he makes far, far too many mistakes to be relied upon. Of course he may improve, and ideally we could have him and a quality experienced keeper at the same time, but I wouldnt be gutted to see him leave I dont think.

And that is why it would be even more of a misstep. 

The second bold is what I want too, as I genuinely don’t see many better keepers in the league, especially at his age - and certainly none that wouldn’t have looked exposed behind our defence at times last season.

I would wager that Raya has still saved us more points than he’s cost us since he’s been out number one, and there’s many, many a keeper that don’t save any points at all.

He’s an academy product and worth more than whatever Brentford can pay, or at least he will be, and I’d hate for us to just piss that potential away.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Specific calls?

Can you remind me who Ben Benson played for again, I’ve forgotten. I thought the answer was nobody. He’s younger than most decent goalkeepers, let alone coaches.

There’s an old saying round these parts: ‘them as can do, them as can’t teach’.

Stop being obtuse.

I’m not being obtuse. You made a raft of comments about the goalkeeping coach not being good enough etc and that Raya was likely self taught (which is laughable). I wondered if you had any actual evidence of what you were saying...obviously not. So it’s just your opinion then. Fine ??

Oh and remind me again who José Mourinho played for? Arsene Wenger? Villas Boas? Saachi? Houlier? Seem to have had pretty good carreers in coaching..??‍♂️

Oh, and in the interests of clarity...the saying you are referring to is ‘those who can’t do, teach’. Which kiiiiiind of goes against your theory abit pal ?

[philipl]

Don't dismiss Brentford. Owners have money and the dinky new stadium at Kew Bridge will more than double their gate receipts and commercial income.

Selling Raya is an absolute NO from me. He needs better coaching and above all, better defenders in front of him.

[Paul Mani]

Have I missed something about the goalkeeper coach? Has anything actually come out about him being no good?

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I’m not being obtuse. You made a raft of comments about the goalkeeping coach not being good enough etc and that Raya was likely self taught (which is laughable). I wondered if you had any actual evidence of what you were saying...obviously not. So it’s just your opinion then. Fine ??

Oh and remind me again who José Mourinho played for? Arsene Wenger? Villas Boas? Saachi? Houlier? Seem to have had pretty good carreers in coaching..??‍♂️

Oh, and in the interests of clarity...the saying you are referring to is ‘those who can’t do, teach’. Which kiiiiiind of goes against your theory abit pal ?

Where did I say it was fact. When I start posting articles on 90.com and linking them on here then you’ll have a point. Unless I post to somewhere off site, or state otherwise, my posts are my opinion or based on logic. Try it.

All of the managers you mention had better football careers than our goalkeeping coach - who finished at junior grassroots level. Except Villas-Boas who was over-promoted and got found out very quickly at each club. Thanks for making my point for me. Surprised you didn’t add Ferguson to your list just to really mug yourself off.

And your last para embarrasses you I’m afraid - and shows your age.

”Pal”

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

Where did I say it was fact. When I start posting articles on 90.com and linking them on here then you’ll have a point. Unless I post to somewhere off site, or state otherwise, my posts are my opinion or based on logic. Try it.

All of the managers you mention had better football careers than our goalkeeping coach - who finished at junior grassroots level. Except Villas-Boas who was over-promoted and got found out very quickly at each club. Thanks for making my point for me. Surprised you didn’t add Ferguson to your list just to really mug yourself off.

And your last para embarrasses you I’m afraid - and shows your age.

”Pal”

None of them ever played football pal. Perhaps you’re getting forgetful? Showing your age? ????

Edited May 18, 2019 by Paul Mani

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

And that is why it would be even more of a misstep. 

The second bold is what I want too, as I genuinely don’t see many better keepers in the league, especially at his age - and certainly none that wouldn’t have looked exposed behind our defence at times last season.

I would wager that Raya has still saved us more points than he’s cost us since he’s been out number one, and there’s many, many a keeper that don’t save any points at all.

He’s an academy product and worth more than whatever Brentford can pay, or at least he will be, and I’d hate for us to just piss that potential away.

I think our main difference of opinion is how highly we rate Raya, he certainly isnt one of the best goalkeepers in the League at this moment in time and we definitely need an upgrade rather than "experienced back-up to push him" as he is not at this moment in time capable of playing a starring role in a side with the ambitions that Mowbray claims we have.

You mention the defence and undoubtedly that is a handicap but with his regular errors and inability to command the defence, he is as big a part of that as anyone. Over the course of a season, not just a couple of months, he made error after error, yes he is capable of some superb saves but all goalkeepers are. I would disagree with the notion that he won us more points than he lost.

I would agree that in an ideal world, we could have Raya competing with a good quality experienced keeper, but being a little more pragmatic and realistic, with our idiotic and eccentric owners, as well as the threat of FFP and 7m already pissed up the wall on Brereton, the resources available to Mowbray will be finite and if sacrificing Raya is required to get us a number 1 good enough to push for the top 6 (the likes of Frank Fielding need not apply) then it would be something worth seriously considering, academy graduate or otherwise in my opinion.

[JHRover]

29 minutes ago, philipl said:

Don't dismiss Brentford. Owners have money and the dinky new stadium at Kew Bridge will more than double their gate receipts and commercial income.

Selling Raya is an absolute NO from me. He needs better coaching and above all, better defenders in front of him.

So what are you saying? That we should be afraid of Brentford or that we should be selling our players to them? Their crowds and income are smaller than ours and we will have to finish above them next season if we want to go anywhere. 

As it happens I wouldn't be against selling Raya, if that is what Mowbray has decided to do. I certainly think better keepers will be up for grabs this summer if we are shopping in that department with decent cash.

I do however have concerns. Not about losing Raya but when I see things appearing on Sky about selling players to divisional rivals I get flashbacks of Cairney being offloaded behind the managers back at the 2 year mark of his time at the helm. I just hope if there is truth in this it isn't being done in an underhand way or Mowbray isn't being forced into it to satisfy the accounts people in India before he arrives for his meeting.

[philipl]

I am saying Brentford should not be dismissed as non-entities and I am strongly opposed to selling Raya. 

I believe the Coyle appointment was an epiphany when it came to doing things behind the club's backs but we are sadly vulnerable to a wrong 'un from outside the club smarming their way into the Rao compound. It hasn't happened since but who knows if we are seeing a permanent change for the better.    

[Stuart]

23 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

None of them ever played football pal. Perhaps you’re getting forgetful? Showing your age? ????

Oh dear.

[Paul Mani]

Raya has potential. But he also has a lot of flaws. If the manager decides to sell him and buy someone else then that’s fine by me. If we’re going to judge him on his signings and demand promotion...the crack on Tony!

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

Selling Raya is an absolute NO from me. He needs better coaching and above all, better defenders in front of him.

The defenders might argue that they would improve with a better more reliable keeper behind them. Personally I think given the poor amount we concede last season that we need a better keeper and defenders. 

[Guest]

Charlton fans telling me that Mr Bauer had a child the day before the play-off semi and that he was "surprisingly" poor during the game and unlike his usual self. 

Obviously there's still the snag of Mowbray's comments about his wage demands, but just for those who saw him in that game and thought 'god he's cack'