Summer Transfer Window 2019

[SBlue]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray acknowledged the Brereton fee was as reported when he said that that he could have spent "could have bought 6 or 7 players for 1 million each."

Theres no way that the fees for Armstrong, Dack, Samuel, Bell, Rothwell, Chapman, Davenport, Downing, Gladwin and Hart dont come to the remaining 3 to 4 million.

Allow me some complete speculation but I just get the impression that we were paying the likes of Feeney, Stokes, Lowe, Akpan, Guthrie, Steele etc FAR FAR more than we should’ve been before our relegation.

20-40k saved a week in wages there has added 2m per year net to the kitty.

At the very least we were offering a whack more than we would now. Probably 10-15k a week plus per player I have listed for absolutely shite all return.

We came back up with lads like Smallwood/Downing/Antonsson on probably 2-5k at best, a few relegation clauses here and there and a bit of a hard reset with Dack becoming one of the top earners on less than 15k.

Remember when the best Bowyer could do with 10k a week was Sacha Bloody Petshi? No wonder we were attractive to the Cairneys and Marshall’s of the world back then. But we were selling everybody worth a tenner too.

This “investment” has NEVER been there and TM hasn’t benefited from it - It’s just a deck chair rearrangement.

We expect more now because we’ve got a decent foundation and TM has allocated a wedge of his refreshed budget and savings to the marquee Big Ben and got hopes up.

This might be the singular mistake that has him finished with many fans.

 

Its just that dreaded flex.

Flex it how you want - But for me TM seems to be operating within a budget that has barely moved beyond zilch for years and years.

 

If we spend over 3m net on fees this window and I’ll gladly eat my hat with salad and garlic sauce.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[roversfan99]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Allow me some complete speculation but I just get the impression that we were paying the likes of Feeney, Stokes, Lowe, Akpan, Guthrie, Steele etc FAR FAR more than we should’ve been before our relegation.

20-40k saved a week in wages there has added 2m per year net to the kitty.

At the very least we were offering a whack more than we would now. Probably 10-15k a week plus per player I have listed for absolutely shite all return.

We came back up with lads like Smallwood/Downing/Antonsson on probably 2-5k at best, a few relegation clauses here and there and a bit of a hard reset with Dack becoming one of the top earners on less than 15k.

Remember when the best Bowyer could do with 10k a week was Sacha Bloody Petshi? No wonder we were attractive to the Cairneys and Marshall’s of the world back then. But we were selling everybody worth a tenner too.

This “investment” has NEVER been there and TM hasn’t benefited from it - It’s just a deck chair rearrangement.

We expect more now because we’ve got a decent foundation and TM has allocated a wedge of his refreshed budget and savings to the marquee Big Ben and got hopes up.

This might be the singular mistake that has him finished with many fans.

 

Its just that dreaded flex.

Flex it how you want - But for me TM seems to be operating within a budget that has barely moved beyond zilch for years and years.

 

If we spend over 3m net on fees this window and I’ll gladly eat my hat with salad and garlic sauce.

 

Mowbray was very lucky that many of the shit players he inherited were instantly out ot contract, Lowe, Akpan, Guthrie, Brown, Greer etc. 

But IMO much of your assumptions are obviously guesswork. He got to keep many of the main senior players that presumably on the highest wages, Mulgrew, Bennett, Graham, Evans etc. I dont get why you think Smallwood would be on such a low wage for example, a senior player who apparently had other offers when he joined. I bet Whittingham had a decent wage too. Whereas im sure Petshi was on nowhere near 10k. Guthrie and Akpan signed under embargo so theyd have been on 10k or under. Again, like yourself, just my own assumptions and guesswork but I dont detect a noticeable lowering of the wage budget under Mowbray at all. Any relegation clauses will have since im sure have been reversed with promotion. 

Also, with as much flex as you like, there would have been no way that Coyle could have splashed out 9m on 2 new forwards no matter how low their wages were. Mowbray has also been keen to dish out new contracts willy nilly to half the squad so that will have caused the wage bill to rise. 

Ultimately, the main reason for people mentioning a play off push so regularly is not because hes spent what hes spent or been allowed to keep his squad intact. Its because Mowbray himself keeps saying it. If we are miles away the pressure will soon build.

[philipl]

I am only interested in defenders.

We already have plenty good enough in midfield and up front to be a menace in this division but that goals against column has to drop by 20.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Commence Venky rant -

 

I’m talking more about the issue of the playing squad/personnel and the disinvestment there.

Running costs exist in any business, and in this industry these costs those can only realistically be recouped by the success of the team. Serves them the fuck right.

 

For context - 

We are net minus say 40m from the day we were a PL team in transfer fees alone (assuming a good manager that could have kept us there). A decade of inflation/market forces from then could put that at what 100m? 200m? More?

Every transfer window for 10 years has been shit. 

 A club still on relative life support with some weird (at best formerly criminal) owners thousands of miles away.

We get a manager who rebuilds a relegated team on a current transfer fee budget of circa £3m per window (excluding wage variations, which I think may account for a lot of that) and he has us looking up. He has us forgetting the owners and those problems. For the first time in years,

”Mowbray is bad in the transfer market” whilst he has signed our two best players in Dack and Rothwell for nowt. Got us thinking about the playoffs again. Working with nothing but very near to status quo investment.

 

I’ve seen people genuinely say “Tony - play offs are the MINIMUM EXPECTATION”

Christ alive what do you think has changed and do you love being disappointed???

 

Tony isn’t a problem here, if anything he’s a victim of his own success that people think he is.

This was the EXACT argument that kept Bowyer as Rovers manager for a season-and-a-half too long.

The only thing missing is “who else could we come here?” but to be fair you’ve pretty much implied that.

If you assume that there are plenty of managers who could have got Rovers promoted from L1 on our budget then Mowbray becomes a very average manager indeed.

Blaming Venkys (at this stage) is ironically the wrong conclusion. They probably expect more from a manager to whom they have given lots of money, a huge budget (relative to our circumstances), unlimited time and zero pressure. Maybe the switch from promotion as an aim to 60 points, late in the season, was a source of confusion for them.

[Mattyblue]

What will annoy me is say we are bottom half around Christmas, is the Beetlejuices of the world telling us to ‘be realistic’, ‘we shouldn’t be expecting play offs’, ‘we are where we are’, ‘we can’t compete’, ‘get behind the lads, sooo negative’.

When it is Mowbray and the players making far more of a song and dance about promotion than the fans, we are realistic looking at that squad that’s why we know we ain’t going up.

[blueboy3333]

It was Mowbray who mentioned the play-offs a few weeks ago. He even mentioned the Top 2. Last season it was about bouncing through the leagues. 

This from a man who just oversaw the worst away defence in the whole of the PL and EFL. 

Christ Alive. He's got some front. 

[Swanson]

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/06/23/report-brentford-join-race-for-southamptons-sam-gallagher/

The weekly Gallagher link.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

I am only interested in defenders.

We already have plenty good enough in midfield and up front to be a menace in this division but that goals against column has to drop by 20.

In fact, it has to drop by 30, because to improve our defence, Mulgrew has to be replaced and that means losing 10 on the goals for column every season too.

So we either go big on defence, or we have to find another ten goals as well as sure things up a little.

Tough one.

[Tugayisgod]

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990051885?-11198:839

Brentford after Gallagher but prefers Rovers

[HowieFive0]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

In fact, it has to drop by 30, because to improve our defence, Mulgrew has to be replaced and that means losing 10 on the goals for column every season too.

So we either go big on defence, or we have to find another ten goals as well as sure things up a little.

Tough one.

Five of Mulgrews goals from the penalty spot ..so that ten really five as im sure Graham would (and did) convert as many penalties.. so not really a problem.

Get a decent couple of defenders in who can keep a few more clean sheets and we wouldn't need Mulgrews goals fullstop.

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

We get a manager who rebuilds a relegated team on a current transfer fee budget of circa £3m per window (excluding wage variations, which I think may account for a lot of that) and he has us looking up. He has us forgetting the owners and those problems. For the first time in years,

”Mowbray is bad in the transfer market” whilst he has signed our two best players in Dack and Rothwell for nowt. Got us thinking about the playoffs again. Working with nothing but very near to status quo investment.

 

I’ve seen people genuinely say “Tony - play offs are the MINIMUM EXPECTATION”

Christ alive what do you think has changed and do you love being disappointed???

 

Tony isn’t a problem here, if anything he’s a victim of his own success that people think he is.

I think this is short of a lot of context. 

Rebuilds a relegated team? - He was allowed to keep all the players he wanted and to add whoever he wanted. He had the biggest wage budget in League 1 and the biggest transfer budget. We posted the biggest (or 2nd biggest) loss ever for a league 1 club for those very reasons. To not get that team up would have been a humungous failure. I think he did well in the end but all the cards were stacked massively in his favour. Mowbray had a Championship team playing in League 1. 

Last summer he spent more than Sheff Utd. They are now in the Prem. 

Mowbray is very, very average in the transfer market. His record shows that. Apart from Dack (an unqualified success) who else has consistently improved the team? Rothwell has hardly played, AA is not a winger and Chapman will be lucky to get off the bench. Those are the four you and others highlight as reasons why he's recruited well. There's another 10-15 players who have either been paid off cos they were shit, or will never be good enough to hold down a first team place. Davenport will be the exception based on the little I've seen. He'll be a shoo-in once his fitness issues are sorted, he looks a quality player. 

As for the people mentioning the play-offs, that nonsense came from Mowbray. He's very adept at saying the right things to get fans onboard. If the manager says 'top 6 or top 2' is the target then fans will want to believe that. You blaming the fans for believing what the manager states is the clubs ambition is bizarre. 

He's a long way from being a victim of his own success. If he doesn't get his recruitment right this summer we will struggle next season. The margins were very fine last season at home - a lot of those games we won by a single goal. Away from home we got regularly trounced. Millwall, newly promoted, just missed out on the play-offs when they first got promoted to the Championship. The season after they just avoided relegation. Preston did worse in their 2nd season up. Sheff Utd were the exception but then they have a top class manager. 

We are middle of the road by the clubs own admission as far as finance goes. As John Williams used to say your budget normally dictates where you'll finish in the league. We finished just below mid-table, which is probably about right. 

Mowbray isn't a good enough manager to punch above the financial weight of the club he's in charge of. So I agree, talk of the play-offs is fanciful with Mowbray in charge. If the owners are happy to bumble along in lower-mid table then Mowbray might be the right man for the  job. If he's there to create vast profits from buying low then selling high they might as well get Bowyer back. 

Next season, all things being equal, we'll finish mid-table if we're lucky. With the same players and budget someone like Warnock would have us in the play-offs. That's the difference. Mowbray is bang average at his job.

Unfortunately Venky's will never employ a manger capable of achieving what they crave - promotion to the Prem.

 

[MarkBRFC]

Worry is that TM seems to think a new centre half is going to solve all our defensive issues, yet will then persist to play Bennett at right back and wonder why it all goes wrong.

Two new full backs are just as crucial as a new centre half but I doubt the budget stretches that far whilst we're apparently chasing another non goalscoring forward and already have a 35 year old winger on the books.

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, Tugayisgod said:

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990051885?-11198:839

Brentford after Gallagher but prefers Rovers

I'd be happy with SG coming back. I think he's quality. 

[HowieFive0]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I think this is short of a lot of context. 

Rebuilds a relegated team? - He was allowed to keep all the players he wanted and to add whoever he wanted. He had the biggest wage budget in League 1 and the biggest transfer budget. We posted the biggest (or 2nd biggest) loss ever for a league 1 club for those very reasons. To not get that team up would have been a humungous failure. I think he did well in the end but all the cards were stacked massively in his favour. Mowbray had a Championship team playing in League 1. 

Last summer he spent more than Sheff Utd. They are now in the Prem. 

Mowbray is very, very average in the transfer market. His record shows that. Apart from Dack (an unqualified success) who else has consistently improved the team? Rothwell has hardly played, AA is not a winger and Chapman will be lucky to get off the bench. Those are the four you and others highlight as reasons why he's recruited well. There's another 10-15 players who have either been paid off cos they were shit, or will never be good enough to hold down a first team place. Davenport will be the exception based on the little I've seen. He'll be a shoo-in once his fitness issues are sorted, he looks a quality player. 

As for the people mentioning the play-offs, that nonsense came from Mowbray. He's very adept at saying the right things to get fans onboard. If the manager says 'top 6 or top 2' is the target then fans will want to believe that. You blaming the fans for believing what the manager states is the clubs ambition is bizarre.  

He's a long way from being a victim of his own success. If he doesn't get his recruitment right this summer we will struggle next season. The margins were very fine last season at home - a lot of those games we won by a single goal. Away from home we got regularly trounced. Millwall, newly promoted, just missed out on the play-offs when they first got promoted to the Championship. The season after they just avoided relegation. Preston did worse in their 2nd season up. Sheff Utd were the exception but then they have a top class manager. 

We are middle of the road by the clubs own admission as far as finance goes. As John Williams used to say your budget normally dictates where you'll finish in the league. We finished just below mid-table, which is probably about right. 

Mowbray isn't a good enough manager to punch above the financial weight of the club he's in charge of. So I agree, talk of the play-offs is fanciful with Mowbray in charge. If the owners are happy to bumble along in lower-mid table then Mowbray might be the right man for the  job. If he's there to create vast profits from buying low then selling high they might as well get Bowyer back. 

Next season, all things being equal, we'll finish mid-table if we're lucky. With the same players and budget someone like Warnock would have us in the play-offs. That's the difference. Mowbray is bang average at his job.

Unfortunately Venky's will never employ a manger capable of achieving what they crave - promotion to the Prem.

 

Manager Talk. All managers come out and state targets. ..and all should be taken with a pinch of salt .

15-16 clubs will all be spouting the same ambitions for 8 places . If Mowbray came out and stated mid table fans would be up in arms about lack of ambition ..season ticket sales would falter (even more !) and yet when he states top 8 fans will slate him for not reaching that target . "But Mowbray said top eight …??" 

Damned if he does damned if he doesn't  but no different from other managers up n down the country. Take it with a pinch of salt and as fans work out yourself just where we SHOULD be hitting this season.

[Paul Mani]

Lads this really isn’t difficult. The manager has said he wants to get in the top six this season. The players are saying the same (see Downings interview). Top 6 wasn’t our target last season. The season before they put their neck on the block saying they HAD to go up and they did....

Get off their backs and let them get this window over and the season started. If they are nowhere near the top 6 come Christmas then there won’t be a single Rovers fan happy because top 6 is the the absolute stated aim and we are all Rovers fans first and foremost. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, HowieFive0 said:

Manager Talk. All managers come out and state targets. ..and all should be taken with a pinch of salt .

15-16 clubs will all be spouting the same ambitions for 8 places . If Mowbray came out and stated mid table fans would be up in arms about lack of ambition ..season ticket sales would falter (even more !) and yet when he states top 8 fans will slate him for not reaching that target . "But Mowbray said top eight …??" 

Damned if he does damned if he doesn't  but no different from other managers up n down the country. Take it with a pinch of salt and as fans work out yourself just where we SHOULD be hitting this season.

Have you got the quotes from other managers? If all managers do it then it shouldn't be difficult to find the evidence. 

Mowbray should just say nothing, like a lot of managers do. 

Of course people should make their own minds up but fans are obviously influenced by the manager. It would be silly to say otherwise. If the manager says Top 2 that raises expectation. Clever managers don't tend to bother. Good managers don't need to. 

 

[neophox]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Lads this really isn’t difficult. The manager has said he wants to get in the top six this season. The players are saying the same (see Downings interview). Top 6 wasn’t our target last season. The season before they put their neck on the block saying they HAD to go up and they did....

Get off their backs and let them get this window over and the season started. If they are nowhere near the top 6 come Christmas then there won’t be a single Rovers fan happy because top 6 is the the absolute stated aim and we are all Rovers fans first and foremost. 

Agree!

[neophox]

Getting Gally and Hanley in would make us a top six team if all the players staying. Think Downing is a good replacement for Conway. But this is the season for Brereton and Rothwell to gel!

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Lads this really isn’t difficult. The manager has said he wants to get in the top six this season. The players are saying the same (see Downings interview). Top 6 wasn’t our target last season. The season before they put their neck on the block saying they HAD to go up and they did....

Get off their backs and let them get this window over and the season started. If they are nowhere near the top 6 come Christmas then there won’t be a single Rovers fan happy because top 6 is the the absolute stated aim and we are all Rovers fans first and foremost. 

It's a message board. Calm down. I doubt anyone at the club is getting upset we are 'on their backs'. 

Try adding to the debate instead of trying to shut it down. It isn't difficult 'lad'. 

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, neophox said:

Getting Gally and Hanley in would make us a top six team if all the players staying. Think Downing is a good replacement for Conway. But this is the season for Brereton and Rothwell to gel!

Two additions and we will get 30 more points? 

[neophox]

A full season in Championship has done well to The likes of Bell and Travis and Lenihan should be made captain.

[neophox]

Think these two could provide a Big difference as mistakes and firepower was a Big problem last season in many games.

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Two additions and we will get 30 more points? 

Yep not a chance we’re top 6 material with just those 2. We’ve lost Reed for a start. 

[HowieFive0]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Two additions and we will get 30 more points? 

15 more points would have been enough for a play off position not 30.

[neophox]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Two additions and we will get 30 more points? 

Sometimes two players could be a huge difference in even games. We lost many even games last season.