Summer Transfer Window 2019

[ossyian]

On 16/05/2019 at 22:06, bluebruce said:

OK, so the club does pay for it, not the player. That's what I'd have thought.

I don't know tons about how player insurance works...but every type of insurance I've had is yearly. I would assume football is either the same, or over the length of the contract. The contract just ended, so if we sign him on another the premium will need to be worked out again right? I can't imagine the premium is unchanged on a player who has spent the last two years injured.

Unless you can tell me how I'm misunderstanding the above, I'm not sure where your claim that this won't cost the club a penny is coming from.

I imagine the insurance doesn't cover the period where he isn't technically injured but is on the comeback trail (when we get no benefit from him), and therefore we'll be paying his wages then at the least. Insurance isn't some big free giveaway, it costs. The more likely you are to claim, the more it costs.

 

[bluebruce]

Just now, ossyian said:

 

Sorry, you dragged up my post from May because...?

[Vinjay]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It shouldn't be a difficult thing to organise, Waggott and Mowbray should be able to agree an Annual budget and have complete autonomy within that budget. They should only need to get the green light from India if they need to go over and beyond that. 

It's what used to be the relationship between John Williams and the Walker Trust.

As regards all the negotiation, Waggott should do that, if he can't, why's he in the job?

...and then the trust went to the family who said no. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Parsonblue]

15 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Come on. At what other Club would the first team assistant Coach do the negotiation of transfers?

From the horses mouth: TM said he is very much involved with "ALL the negotiating, all the discussions with Clubs to get the right deals and the right numbers".

I think Mowbray has made a major faux pas here. He's probably said it to reassure everyone because he thinks Venus is such a great bloke. In reality he's let the cat out of the bag and everyone is thinking "wtf?".

Tbh it makes the fact that Mowbray got Waggott his job and the relationship between the "Coventry mafia" of Waggott Mowbray and Venus all the more concerning.

It seems similar to the Busby/Murphy - Clough/Taylor relationships in terms of the manager and the assistant handling different aspects of the job.  Then Waggott and the owners either sanction a deal or don't.  Every club handles things differently.  Personally I don't see a problem with it.  At some clubs the manager has no say in who is bought and sold - it's done by others and the manager just coaches what he is given.

[G Somerset Rover]

16 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

It seems similar to the Busby/Murphy - Clough/Taylor relationships in terms of the manager and the assistant handling different aspects of the job.  Then Waggott and the owners either sanction a deal or don't.  Every club handles things differently.  Personally I don't see a problem with it.  At some clubs the manager has no say in who is bought and sold - it's done by others and the manager just coaches what he is given.

But there’s obviously a problem Parson. You’re talking about 30-40 year old ways of working. It’s apparent we cannot get deals done without climbing mountains and it’s hindering us big time. Mowbray’s admitting as much.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, 47er said:

You have explained why, in your view, we didn't sign certain players but misses the point that we have failed to strengthen one of the very worst defences in the Championship. Yet TM publicly accepted the problem and promised "defenders are coming".

Whatever happens with the signings in mid-field and upfront, this transfer window, without significant improvements, is a failure. Another one in a list of them.

It is unacceptable.

 

Is the transfer window close? Judge the squad after the transfer window closes. Not now

[chaddyrovers]

On 27/07/2019 at 00:43, JHRover said:

I'm a bit worried that we spent so long and so much effort going after a CB who was supposedly nothing more than cover, failed to get him, haven't got anyone else in. This despite the manager saying we needed players to play ahead of those here last season. Completely baffling.

 

We dont know if we had bids rejectes for players but it isn't leak to the press. 

Press didnt know anything about the Johnson/Walton transfers until a couple of days before. 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

It seems similar to the Busby/Murphy - Clough/Taylor relationships in terms of the manager and the assistant handling different aspects of the job.  Then Waggott and the owners either sanction a deal or don't.  Every club handles things differently.  Personally I don't see a problem with it.  At some clubs the manager has no say in who is bought and sold - it's done by others and the manager just coaches what he is given.

Whether or nor you are correct with the analogy about the relationship between the respective parties, Sir Matt was at his peak around 60 years ago, and Clough and Taylor 40 - 45 years ago so I wouldn't have thought having the manager's right hand man negotiating transfer deals would be accepted practice these days.

When John Williams was here, would you not have thought it extremely strange if say Mark Bowen or Kevin McDonald were responsible for negotiating with potential targets on behalf of Messrs. Hughes and Allardyce?

A perhaps more important point I'd make is that Clough and Taylor were both very high profile and almost an equal partnership. Similarly, although I've never heard of Busby's man you mentioned, that wouldn't matter, everyone would be desperate to sign anyway because of Sir Matt. I wouldn't say either Mowbray or Venus carry the same sort of gravitas at all. So whilst if Dalglish in his prime was manager and I was a player and I ended up negotiating with Venus, that wouldn't matter so much as I'd want to overlook any minor issues and would be desperate to play for the manager. As things stand at present I think I'd expect to be talking to either the manager or the Chief Executive to gauge how badly they wanted me.

At the end of the day though I don't think anyone gives two hoots who does the transfers as long as the job gets done. It seems to me however  over the last 3 windows that something clearly isn't working as 

1) We seem to have offers in all summer for our main targets which rarely If ever come off and invariably end up on the B or C list and even then.......

2) We seem to have immense difficulty getting any sort of deal over the line

which suggests that either we are not being at all realistic at all about valuations of players and/or their wage demands given the current level of the market, or if a player does have a possible interest in coming we're not selling the Club well enough at that point or are not accomplished enough to overcome any sticking points.

[GunnerRover27]

Ben Hall from Brighton is free. 20 year old northern Ireland international, quite similar to Arsenal's Rob Holding, never got a chance at Brighton with dunk and Duffy

[philipl]

I will state the obvious. When the window closes on 8 August is the time to draw preliminary judgement on this window.

As things stand today, we are one of very few non-Premier League clubs with net transfer outgoings and the players in are on paper the equal of (goalkeeper) or better (outfield) in terms of reasonably expected performance capability during 2019/20 than the players who have left. Yes I am all for development and future prospects but I'd be ecstatic to get another couple of Premier League loanees who make the difference between promotion or not whom we could sign permanently for £10m to £15m once we are in the Premier League. Two such defenders would be heaven.

Right now it is season 2019/20 that matters.

In the next 12 days, we can expect the transfer merry go round to pick up although my expectation now is that the supporters of at least half the clubs in the Football League will be looking at a very meagre window indeed when it shuts.

We should not be one of those profoundly disappointed clubs (although we know at least 25% of Rovers fans will be moaning come what may) but in a sticky market, players stick so our targets might not be signable for any number of reasons.

You could imagine a few League One managements cursing their luck at the strong close season form of at least three Rovers youngsters who will not now be going out on loan.

[MarkBRFC]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

You could imagine a few League One managements cursing their luck at the strong close season form of at least three Rovers youngsters who will not now be going out on loan.

You say that, but they will just go back to the under 23s save for a couple of league cup games, no way will we see them in the match day 18 with the bloated squad that we have.

Magloire, Buckley & Butterworth would all benefit from a year in league one playing every week.

 

[47er]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is the transfer window close? Judge the squad after the transfer window closes. Not now

I think we've done this one. Not long to go eh?

[47er]

10 hours ago, Beanie01289 said:

I hear people say that for some i just don't believe it

Your problem.

[m1st]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It shouldn't be a difficult thing to organise, Waggott and Mowbray should be able to agree an Annual budget and have complete autonomy within that budget. They should only need to get the green light from India if they need to go over and beyond that. 

It's what used to be the relationship between John Williams and the Walker Trust.

As regards all the negotiation, Waggott should do that, if he can't, why's he in the job?

But is that the way that our owners do business? Or indeed any owners? They hold the purse strings; it's surely their right to approve how their money is spent.

It might have been easier for John Williams to get a decision from the Trust - partly because his time as Chief Exec covered both Uncle Jack's and the Trust's ownership - and modern communication methods should, in theory, make it easier than it seems to be to us impatient-for-success fans. But we are presently stuck with the systems that our owners feel most comfortable with.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

You say that, but they will just go back to the under 23s save for a couple of league cup games, no way will we see them in the match day 18 with the bloated squad that we have.

Magloire, Buckley & Butterworth would all benefit from a year in league one playing every week.

 

The squad is only currently bloated in Midfield and the forward lines which effects Buckley and Butterworth. I can see  the latter going out but I’m pretty sure that Buckley will be in the match day squad (bench) straight away.

Grayson, Magloire and JRC are right in the mix as it stands with us losing Rodwell and Downing as well as injuries to Williams and Hart.

My personal opinion is that Buckley is ready to impact the first team now. The wildcard is Grayson. All would benefit from a year in league 1 but we have to look at our own interests first.

[Parsonblue]

 

9 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

But there’s obviously a problem Parson. You’re talking about 30-40 year old ways of working. It’s apparent we cannot get deals done without climbing mountains and it’s hindering us big time. Mowbray’s admitting as much.

Agreed Gavlar, my examples are old - bit like me - but are merely to illustrate that different clubs work in different ways.  The role of a sporting director who buys and sells players as opposed to the manager is probably the way we are headed and is very similar to the American model of a General Manager and a Team Manager.  I don't think that will happen with the present manager at Ewood but I can see it happening in the not too distant future when Mowbray leaves if someone like Johnson was appointed as manager to work with the players and a senior figure appointed above doing the administrative work, including the selling and buying .  We had something a little bit similar in the late sixties when Eddie Quigley was the team manager and Johnny Carey returned to Ewood as an administrative manager.  Quigley worked with the players and Carey did the paperwork etc.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Mike E
Removed hidden content from post.

[m1st]

And on a different topic than my last post I'd like to share the following thought.

Forthe first couple of seconds after Lenihan was injured yesterday afternoon, it looked really serious. He looked to be in the sort of agony that makes that leads you - me! - to think, "He's going to be out for AGES."?

Fortunately, of course, it wasn't that serious, but I'd have given more than a penny for Mowbray's thoughts if Lenihan had had to be stretchered off. I have to say I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in the manager. But, had Lenihan also been out for, say, 6 weeks +, and I were the club's manager, I'd have been as worried as many on this Board are about the back four for the first couple of weeks of the coming season.

[Scotland1]

5 hours ago, GunnerRover27 said:

Ben Hall from Brighton is free. 20 year old northern Ireland international, quite similar to Arsenal's Rob Holding, never got a chance at Brighton with dunk and Duffy

The one we missed out on was young Connor masterton he’s joined QPR but I think he was with Travis at Liverpool. Could become an excellent CB of his injuries clear up. 

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, m1st said:

And on a different topic than my last post I'd like to share the following thought.

Forthe first couple of seconds after Lenihan was injured yesterday afternoon, it looked really serious. He looked to be in the sort of agony that makes that leads you - me! - to think, "He's going to be out for AGES."?

Fortunately, of course, it wasn't that serious, but I'd have given more than a penny for Mowbray's thoughts if Lenihan had had to be stretchered off. I have to say I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in the manager. But, had Lenihan also been out for, say, 6 weeks +, and I were the club's manager, I'd have been as worried as many on this Board are about the back four for the first couple of weeks of the coming season.

He'd probably think "I'll put Ritchie there, he can do a job".

But seriously, I'd like to think even the thought of him being injured might just trigger a reaction to go and get somebody now whilst he still can. 

It's no good leaving it and thinking we have plenty of young lads in reserve, then Lenihan breaks his foot against Fulham.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

I will state the obvious. When the window closes on 8 August is the time to draw preliminary judgement on this window.

As things stand today, we are one of very few non-Premier League clubs with net transfer outgoings and the players in are on paper the equal of (goalkeeper) or better (outfield) in terms of reasonably expected performance capability during 2019/20 than the players who have left. Yes I am all for development and future prospects but I'd be ecstatic to get another couple of Premier League loanees who make the difference between promotion or not whom we could sign permanently for £10m to £15m once we are in the Premier League. Two such defenders would be heaven.

Right now it is season 2019/20 that matters.

In the next 12 days, we can expect the transfer merry go round to pick up although my expectation now is that the supporters of at least half the clubs in the Football League will be looking at a very meagre window indeed when it shuts.

We should not be one of those profoundly disappointed clubs (although we know at least 25% of Rovers fans will be moaning come what may) but in a sticky market, players stick so our targets might not be signable for any number of reasons.

You could imagine a few League One managements cursing their luck at the strong close season form of at least three Rovers youngsters who will not now be going out on loan.

The problem is that the manager himself has set the bar for the summer window when he decided to tell everyone what he would be doing. He told us what would be happening and so far we're miles off doing that having signed no defenders.

Can't really blame people for being confused, disappointed or even feeling let down that the manager boldly declared he would be doing something and then hasn't done, yet.

The point about net spending doesn't really interest me and shouldn't be the measure of a successful window. We could have a positive spend of £15 million by signing another 2 Ben Brereton's to sit on the bench for the next 12 months, which would get us nowhere, or break even by selling Raya and then using the money to address the key areas of GK and defence and come out of the window much stronger. I know which I'd prefer. So other clubs may have spent less than us but they won't have invested into project signings - they will have invested what they can into their weakness areas.

[OJRovers]

Young center back Harry Soutter has rejoined Fleetwood from Stoke on loan.

I'd have been happy if he was the 'young loan' option if the city lad is messing around.

Did well last season and is 6'6 commanding in the box.

[philipl]

I will post my real fear about this window.

Look at Premier League transfer action, or lack of it.

At least half the clubs are leaving their moves to very late. We are far from out of danger on Lenihan and Dack.

 

[markhayhurst]

Just now, philipl said:

I will post my real fear about this window.

Look at Premier League transfer action, or lack of it.

At least half the clubs are leaving their moves to very late. We are far from out of danger on Lenihan and Dack.

 

13 million for Dack to spend in next window. Would that be a complete disaster??

Not sure how he's going to fit into current line-up this season. A luxury player/playboy??

I'd be more concerned at loosing Lenihan TBO.

[philipl]

Just now, markhayhurst said:

13 million for Dack to spend in next window. Would that be a complete disaster??

Not sure how he's going to fit into current line-up this season. A luxury player/playboy??

I'd be more concerned at loosing Lenihan TBO.

At this stage of the window, we have to be absolute a-holes on the price. At least £20m for Dack.

I know I got clobbered for reporting a private conversation at Man U but for all the noise from Old Trafford, they have done remarkably little business and that squad needs a radical sorting out.

[USABlue]

16 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17799580.mowbray-adarabioyo-hold-up-rovers-defensive-search/

‘Would we like more options? Yes. Yet I like to think I do care about my players, and it’s not the right thing sometimes to fill positions with loads of players and those who have been so good to us aren’t getting anywhere near it.’

Polar opposite to what he said at the end of last season when he stated that they haven’t been good enough. He’s simply not ruthless enough. Teddy Bear Tony.

As someone else suggested I would not be surprised if the hold up was down to Tony's displace the incumbents rhetoric.  City and the lad will want more.assurances.of first.team appearances, expect this deal to go south.