Mowbray’s Future

[Sparks Rover]

50 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Not a problem for me.

Even offered to buy Chaddy a pint at Wigan.

He's too busy smooching his missus on the back row

[steelcityblue]

It’s no surprise that the manager should face criticism after two  shocking performances from his team. But this has been a deluge. So a couple of points in his defence. Firstly Whilst we may not agree with his  selections and tactics,  Mowbray  almost always explains his thinking behind those changes either post match or in the days that follow via the website or in the LET. They are always to me at least thought through and reasonable even if they don’t always come off. We have more of an insight into the whys of his management than anyone  I can remember previously. We may not agree but there’s always honesty and footballing reasoning on display. This in part leads to the criticism that he overthinks things. But seriously do we want a manager that thinks less? Almost every manager these days , especially the good ones alter personnel and set up from game to game. Gone are the days of picking the same eleven, winding them up and sending them out. Secondly he has shown evidence of learning and change when things don’t work out. The last time we lost 2 in a row was the opening games of last season when he tried 3 at the back. The players couldn’t do it and he reverted to a back 4 and we barely looked back. He has said he’s trying to evolve the current style. I don’t think the players (and I know they are his choices) can implement what he’s trying to do this season. He has shown when that happens he can change to a more pragmatic approach and that’s what I expect in the next few games. And finally quite a few have mentioned that he’s a good bloke which we appreciate but discounted that in the face of poor results as the only thing that matters. I don’t think his character is irrelevant to this club nor to his chances of putting this right and for me at least increases my patience and belief when things are not going well. He’s not beyond criticism that’s what a forum is for (and mostly it’s been reasoned and temperate) but I thought some mitigation was in order. And no I’m not his brother or love child 

[old darwen blue]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

If you prefer 'I have been stopped from posting this by moderators.', I can revert back....................................

I prefer his Latin name, cuntibolox

[Guest]

Managers need time. And promoted managers need even more. Have people forgotten we were promoted last season? He’s given the league one lads a fair crack at it now though and we need better quality, the Rodwell CB experiment hasn’t worked and these strikers on wings are horrible to watch. In a way, when the inevitable Dack sale comes in, it might help us you never know because to allow him to play in his position it almost hinders everyone else due to us not actually having any wingers. 

Also, look at Farke at Norwich, they were appalling end of last season and fans were begging Delia to sack him. Seem to remember them losing 5/6 in a row and heavily too, 4/5-0 at millwall or something like that? Now look what CAN happen with a bit of patience.

Mowbray has always maintained he needs 2-3 windows minimum, and i for one believe he’s done enough in his time here to merit a bit of patience. We played very well against very good teams only last month, no need to panic... yet. The goal has always been to stay up this year. Equally, you have teams like Ispwich who people were in absolute uproar in pre season about for signing players like Edwards, Nolan and Nsiala “players we should be looking at” and looks like that’s working out just perfectly for them!

[JacknOry]

14 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Managers need time. And promoted managers need even more. Have people forgotten we were promoted last season? He’s given the league one lads a fair crack at it now though and we need better quality, the Rodwell CB experiment hasn’t worked and these strikers on wings are horrible to watch. In a way, when the inevitable Dack sale comes in, it might help us you never know because to allow him to play in his position it almost hinders everyone else due to us not actually having any wingers. 

Also, look at Farke at Norwich, they were appalling end of last season and fans were begging Delia to sack him. Seem to remember them losing 5/6 in a row and heavily too, 4/5-0 at millwall or something like that? Now look what CAN happen with a bit of patience.

Mowbray has always maintained he needs 2-3 windows minimum, and i for one believe he’s done enough in his time here to merit a bit of patience. We played very well against very good teams only last month, no need to panic... yet. The goal has always been to stay up this year. Equally, you have teams like Ispwich who people were in absolute uproar in pre season about for signing players like Edwards, Nolan and Nsiala “players we should be looking at” and looks like that’s working out just perfectly for them!

Edwards we should have been looking at and still should be as he is one of their better players - the other two and the other dross he brought from League 1 have not done so well though. But I think that was just bringing far too many from L1 all at once after the club sold a few of its more experienced Championship players. 

[chaddyrovers]

Great post @Mellor Rover. 

Nolan and Nsiala arent even in Ipswich match day squad. 

[Tom]

I tend to agree that whilst it would be brilliant to be challenging this season in reality it’s a building season and Tony is working long term.

With that in mind I really think having invested so much in Brereton we should be playing him and developing him rather than the cautious approach so far, if there is any position to throw young lads in it’s up front as goals can do wonders for them.

I can’t see us being in any real danger but also feel being overly cautious won’t do us much good in the long run.

[JHRover]

I agree although I take issue with this 2-3 transfer window building timescale that it seems Mowbray has identified as being needed for his project. Ultimately he's now had 2 summer windows and 1 January window, and we're still in a position where our main players are those he inherited. The only one or two contributing significantly in the Championship really are Reed and Dack. Smallwood is being found out as not really good enough and the jury is still out on Bell. Armstrong isn't really doing enough out wide, although he's caused teams problems with his pace at times he hasn't scored or created enough. The rest of our core - Raya, Mulgrew, Lenihan, Evans, Bennett, Graham - were here before and it seems will be here for a while longer as the new contracts are handed out.

So I'm not exactly clear where these changes are going to be made in the next couple of windows that are going to catapult us up the league.

I'm more than happy to back Mowbray for the next few windows if that is what he thinks he needs to assemble a strong squad but I do look at business done to date and question where we are going with it all. The majority of his signings so far have been ineffective or short term options, whilst the focus of our business recently seems to have been securing Bennett, Mulgrew etc. onto longer deals.

[roversfan99]

7 hours ago, steelcityblue said:

It’s no surprise that the manager should face criticism after two  shocking performances from his team. But this has been a deluge. So a couple of points in his defence. Firstly Whilst we may not agree with his  selections and tactics,  Mowbray  almost always explains his thinking behind those changes either post match or in the days that follow via the website or in the LET. They are always to me at least thought through and reasonable even if they don’t always come off. We have more of an insight into the whys of his management than anyone  I can remember previously. We may not agree but there’s always honesty and footballing reasoning on display. This in part leads to the criticism that he overthinks things. But seriously do we want a manager that thinks less? Almost every manager these days , especially the good ones alter personnel and set up from game to game. Gone are the days of picking the same eleven, winding them up and sending them out. Secondly he has shown evidence of learning and change when things don’t work out. The last time we lost 2 in a row was the opening games of last season when he tried 3 at the back. The players couldn’t do it and he reverted to a back 4 and we barely looked back. He has said he’s trying to evolve the current style. I don’t think the players (and I know they are his choices) can implement what he’s trying to do this season. He has shown when that happens he can change to a more pragmatic approach and that’s what I expect in the next few games. And finally quite a few have mentioned that he’s a good bloke which we appreciate but discounted that in the face of poor results as the only thing that matters. I don’t think his character is irrelevant to this club nor to his chances of putting this right and for me at least increases my patience and belief when things are not going well. He’s not beyond criticism that’s what a forum is for (and mostly it’s been reasoned and temperate) but I thought some mitigation was in order. And no I’m not his brother or love child 

Im not one to ever judge on what he says, its all about what he does for me. He does seem like a nice guy but that is also almost an irrelevance to me and shouldnt make a difference to our judgements. Rodwell playing at centre back is a perfect case in point. His reasoning may seem somewhat sensible but on the pitch it doesnt seem to work, you can tell hes not a centre back, his defending for Wigans 2nd is a case in point. Same with strikers wide, midfielders up front, playing Smallwood and Evans, playing occasional back 3s, it may sound logical when he explains it but if it doesnt work then such things need to be tweaked and abandoned and he deserves to be questioned rather than praised for his "honesty."

2 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Managers need time. And promoted managers need even more. Have people forgotten we were promoted last season? He’s given the league one lads a fair crack at it now though and we need better quality, the Rodwell CB experiment hasn’t worked and these strikers on wings are horrible to watch. In a way, when the inevitable Dack sale comes in, it might help us you never know because to allow him to play in his position it almost hinders everyone else due to us not actually having any wingers. 

Also, look at Farke at Norwich, they were appalling end of last season and fans were begging Delia to sack him. Seem to remember them losing 5/6 in a row and heavily too, 4/5-0 at millwall or something like that? Now look what CAN happen with a bit of patience.

Mowbray has always maintained he needs 2-3 windows minimum, and i for one believe he’s done enough in his time here to merit a bit of patience. We played very well against very good teams only last month, no need to panic... yet. The goal has always been to stay up this year. Equally, you have teams like Ispwich who people were in absolute uproar in pre season about for signing players like Edwards, Nolan and Nsiala “players we should be looking at” and looks like that’s working out just perfectly for them!

My only fear is that we hear all the talk about progressing the squad, needing x number of windows. Hes had 3 so far, and the last one particular he was backed with resources belittling the fact that we were in League 1 last season. 

I dont agree that merely staying up would be an adequate achievement either considering the resources at our disposal. And patience is often a word used in preference to actual reasoned judgement. Patience is only worthwhile if there are obvious signs of progression. 

You look at the summer signings, undoubtedly we brought some talent to the club. In my opinion it doesnt seem to have been done with much balance or forward planning, the only unqualified success is only here on loan. He signed 7 players and we are still short in a number of areas, whilst having plenty of players (Palmer, Rothwell, Armstrong, Brereton, Rodwell) none of whom have really enhanced consistently any of the positions that we needed.

All that being said, Mowbray does have enough credit in the bank obviously to continue and I havent seen anyone suggest otherwise. The manner of our promotion was impressive and we are hardly in a poor position at the moment. But he needs to give the team some consistency, attacking threat, defensive stability and identity back.

[K-Hod]

Mowbray has plenty of credit in the bank and I'm not for one minute calling for his head, I don't think anyone else is either, if they were, then surely it wouldn't be difficult to find any  suggesting so. So it seems to be mischievous and an attempt at point scoring to suggest something which isn't even the case to suit a viewpoint to me.

 I've seen loads saying 'if this carries on, then his position will be under review', but that's just to be expected in football. 

If you do badly in any job and don't show any signs of improvement, then surely questions would be asked? 

I've hardly seen any evidence of a 'meltdown' either. People being annoyed about getting slapped twice with two shocking performances to boot, fancy fans of a football club they love being angry eh? Whatever next.....

 

[Batman.]

15 hours ago, Amo said:

Reactive, you mean?

 

Apologies, you're quite right.

Good job you don't spend all day correcting grammatical mistakes over at the other place, otherwise you'd never leave the study...

Now presuming you came here to add nothing other than pettily correct a grammatical error, why not scuttle back off to find pictures of tits? 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Batman.

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I dont agree that merely staying up would be an adequate achievement either considering the resources at our disposal. And patience is often a word used in preference to actual reasoned judgement. Patience is only worthwhile if there are obvious signs of progression. 

Firstly - the part about staying up not being an “adequate achievement” is a prime example of the self entitlement of fickle football fans! I’ve seen so many examples in the last 7 days, I would need a PA to organise the examples from ridiculous to the absurd.

Relegation is unthinkable. Whilst I got excited with others about our start, the key this season is consolidation of our position. Just because the youngest and newest player of our first 18 cost “allegedly” 7m, doesn’t mean expectation should shift towards playoffs.

Secondly - patience? I almost think you used that word with some intended humour because 7 days ago this discussion would’ve been laughable. I read many “of this continues” or the extremely hilarious reactionary “I demand answers” from a few posters... the antithesis of patience for me.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 minutes ago, Biz said:

Firstly - the part about staying up not being an “adequate achievement” is a prime example of the self entitlement of fickle football fans! I’ve seen so many examples in the last 7 days, I would need a PA to organise the examples from ridiculous to the absurd.

Relegation is unthinkable. Whilst I got excited with others about our start, the key this season is consolidation of our position. Just because the youngest and newest player of our first 18 cost “allegedly” 7m, doesn’t mean expectation should shift towards playoffs.

Secondly - patience? I almost think you used that word with some intended humour because 7 days ago this discussion would’ve been laughable. I read many “of this continues” or the extremely hilarious reactionary “I demand answers” from a few posters... the antithesis of patience for me.

Relegation is only " unthinkable " when you get to 50 points in my book. I've seen plenty of teams go down who were " safe " 3/4 of the way through the season. Staying up this season would do me fine. The Play offs are a distant dream unless something dramatic happens in January.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Relegation is only " unthinkable " when you get to 50 points in my book. I've seen plenty of teams go down who were " safe " 3/4 of the way through the season. Staying up this season would do me fine. The Play offs are a distant dream unless something dramatic happens in January.

Precisely. We need to revert nearly 10 years of bad decision making, it was never taking two seasons.

 

[Batman.]

13 hours ago, 47er said:

 There was a suggestion a few months ago that TM be given a 6 year extension! People need to be more balanced.

He is making selection errors and the players aren't playing with the same spirit that's been such a positive feature of his tenure.

He deserves the right to put things straight but patience isn't endless in this game.

Of course. Talk of 6 year contracts on football nowadays is ridiculous.

Mowbray has earned the right to overaee a horrific run before his job should be under consideration. His reign here has been an overwhelming success. As I've stated, at this level, we were always going to hit a bad run with this squad.

A run is 4/5 games of positive/ negative results. Talk/ insinuation of his job being under consideration if we lose another game or two is ridiculous. 

These are the same people who would be livid if Dack were knocking down the door and asking for a move to West Brom come January.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Im not one to ever judge on what he says, its all about what he does for me. He does seem like a nice guy but that is also almost an irrelevance to me and shouldnt make a difference to our judgements. Rodwell playing at centre back is a perfect case in point. His reasoning may seem somewhat sensible but on the pitch it doesnt seem to work, you can tell hes not a centre back, his defending for Wigans 2nd is a case in point. Same with strikers wide, midfielders up front, playing Smallwood and Evans, playing occasional back 3s, it may sound logical when he explains it but if it doesnt work then such things need to be tweaked and abandoned and he deserves to be questioned rather than praised for his "honesty."

My only fear is that we hear all the talk about progressing the squad, needing x number of windows. Hes had 3 so far, and the last one particular he was backed with resources belittling the fact that we were in League 1 last season. 

I dont agree that merely staying up would be an adequate achievement either considering the resources at our disposal. And patience is often a word used in preference to actual reasoned judgement. Patience is only worthwhile if there are obvious signs of progression. 

You look at the summer signings, undoubtedly we brought some talent to the club. In my opinion it doesnt seem to have been done with much balance or forward planning, the only unqualified success is only here on loan. He signed 7 players and we are still short in a number of areas, whilst having plenty of players (Palmer, Rothwell, Armstrong, Brereton, Rodwell) none of whom have really enhanced consistently any of the positions that we needed.

All that being said, Mowbray does have enough credit in the bank obviously to continue and I havent seen anyone suggest otherwise. The manner of our promotion was impressive and we are hardly in a poor position at the moment. But he needs to give the team some consistency, attacking threat, defensive stability and identity back.

No, he is a nice guy, you should attend a meeting or event where Mowbray talks about football and the past. You would enjoyed it. have you ever talk to Mowbray or even met him? 

Some managers wouldn't explained their tactics and what his thinking is. Mowbray does time after time after and deserved huge praised for doing so and to the fans. 

His reasons for bringing in Rodwell and playing him at centre back are out there so I wont go over them again. 

He mentioned 3 windows after we got promotion and bring a squad slowly to challenge for promotion. Maybe research your points 1st. 

A mid table finish this season would be a good season for us. And fans need to patience with their over excitement and realised we are building a football team here. 

I expect Rothwell and Brereton will get their chances in the coming weeks. 

Mowbray is always forward planning and look a transfer window IMO. We lack a winger but if Armstrong is going to play there regular then fair enough but I rather see him up front. 

Mowbray has loads of credits in the bank and any talk of removing him or him being sack is pathetic and people need to realised how he has change this club mentality and fans belief in the club

36 minutes ago, Biz said:

Firstly - the part about staying up not being an “adequate achievement” is a prime example of the self entitlement of fickle football fans! I’ve seen so many examples in the last 7 days, I would need a PA to organise the examples from ridiculous to the absurd.

Relegation is unthinkable. Whilst I got excited with others about our start, the key this season is consolidation of our position. Just because the youngest and newest player of our first 18 cost “allegedly” 7m, doesn’t mean expectation should shift towards playoffs.

Secondly - patience? I almost think you used that word with some intended humour because 7 days ago this discussion would’ve been laughable. I read many “of this continues” or the extremely hilarious reactionary “I demand answers” from a few posters... the antithesis of patience for me.

agreed

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

As I've said earlier I'm not overly ambitious regarding league placings at the end of the season, I'd be quite content just to be in this league next season. What does concern me is our recent recruitment policy. Without going over old ground again, It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. For an experienced manager he hasn't half signed more than his share of players who haven't had a positive impact on the team. That is a big worry, nice bloke or not.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JacknOry]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No, he is a nice guy, you should attend a meeting or event where Mowbray talks about football and the past. You would enjoyed it. have you ever talk to Mowbray or even met him? 

Some managers wouldn't explained their tactics and what his thinking is. Mowbray does time after time after and deserved huge praised for doing so and to the fans. 

His reasons for bringing in Rodwell and playing him at centre back are out there so I wont go over them again. 

He mentioned 3 windows after we got promotion and bring a squad slowly to challenge for promotion. Maybe research your points 1st. 

A mid table finish this season would be a good season for us. And fans need to patience with their over excitement and realised we are building a football team here. 

I expect Rothwell and Brereton will get their chances in the coming weeks. 

Mowbray is always forward planning and look a transfer window IMO. We lack a winger but if Armstrong is going to play there regular then fair enough but I rather see him up front. 

Mowbray has loads of credits in the bank and any talk of removing him or him being sack is pathetic and people need to realised how he has change this club mentality and fans belief in the club

agreed

Apart from perhaps Mercer, nobody has called for him to be sacked. You always jump in with this as soon as any negative comments are posted regarding TM. he is not blameless, so you need to accept that he will get stick - this does not mean everyone is calling for his head. 

[JHRover]

No Blackburn Rovers manager can preside over a 4-1 defeat to Preston and a 3-1 defeat to Wigan in the space of 4 days and not get substantial criticism. I care not one jot how well Mowbray talks in his interviews, how nice a bloke he is, or what ideas he has on recruitment and tactics. Results then performances determine a manager and those in the last 10 days have been well short of the expected standard.

I'd say the criticism has been quite muted given the manner of the performances. Deplorable doesn't cover it. These weren't games we played well and were unfortunate or had bad decisions or luck. They were utterly atrocious performances, back to back, against poor sides. A mess from back to front.

Results AND performances need to improve significantly. If they don't Mowbray will be criticised more. If they do and this turns out to be a minor sticky patch as 'all sides have' apparently then he'll be praised for sorting it out quickly.

[Mattyblue]

I'm interested to see the reaction tomorrow.

We see a terrier like performance akin to the Wigan (an hour of it) and Shrewsbury home games last season or the commitment of Leeds home or West Brom away then we will see that the 'clear the air' talks have done their job.

A fifth insipid performance in a row and we could well be in for a long hard season as we have a tough looking December...

[Amo]

2 hours ago, Batman. said:

Apologies, you're quite right.

Say no more. Apology accepted. :) 

[Mike E]

I’m going to revise my assertion last month that Rodwell would make a good centre back. I was wrong.

He makes an adequate makeshift centre back when desperate, or perhaps a solid option for ‘the composed one’ if playing 3 centre backs.

But in reality, he’s shown that he is a sitting midfielder.

[Mattyblue]

An accomplished one at that, so why weaken two positions by having him st centre half?

[Mike E]

30 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

An accomplished one at that, so why weaken two positions by having him st centre half?

I don’t know anymore ????

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, Biz said:

Firstly - the part about staying up not being an “adequate achievement” is a prime example of the self entitlement of fickle football fans! I’ve seen so many examples in the last 7 days, I would need a PA to organise the examples from ridiculous to the absurd.

Relegation is unthinkable. Whilst I got excited with others about our start, the key this season is consolidation of our position. Just because the youngest and newest player of our first 18 cost “allegedly” 7m, doesn’t mean expectation should shift towards playoffs.

Secondly - patience? I almost think you used that word with some intended humour because 7 days ago this discussion would’ve been laughable. I read many “of this continues” or the extremely hilarious reactionary “I demand answers” from a few posters... the antithesis of patience for me.

Weve put in 2 horrendous performances and got 2 horrendous results in a week. Of course people will be mad. My point was that the word patience is hurled around in general (not with Mowbray) but you need to see signs at least that progress is being made, however slowly. Patience is just a buzz word used to ridicule those who question the manager. 

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No, he is a nice guy, you should attend a meeting or event where Mowbray talks about football and the past. You would enjoyed it. have you ever talk to Mowbray or even met him? 

Some managers wouldn't explained their tactics and what his thinking is. Mowbray does time after time after and deserved huge praised for doing so and to the fans. 

His reasons for bringing in Rodwell and playing him at centre back are out there so I wont go over them again. 

He mentioned 3 windows after we got promotion and bring a squad slowly to challenge for promotion. Maybe research your points 1st. 

A mid table finish this season would be a good season for us. And fans need to patience with their over excitement and realised we are building a football team here. 

I expect Rothwell and Brereton will get their chances in the coming weeks. 

Mowbray is always forward planning and look a transfer window IMO. We lack a winger but if Armstrong is going to play there regular then fair enough but I rather see him up front. 

Mowbray has loads of credits in the bank and any talk of removing him or him being sack is pathetic and people need to realised how he has change this club mentality and fans belief in the club

agreed

Im sure he is a nice guy, Ive no real interest in meeting him, Ive not met him, it has no bearing on my opinion of him as a football manager. I like him because overall hes done a good job, not because hes a nice bloke.

Every manager tries to explain themselves but it doesnt mean that they are right. Hes explained why he signed Rodwell as a centre back, I dont agree with it even though it had a small hint of logic to it, and it hasnt worked. Im not going to credit him for doing something counter-productive simply because he explained his supposed logic in a press conference prior.

He has done a lot of good, my point was that people may question a manager if at any point aspects of a long term plan dont seem to be fitting. Many of his summer signings havent really done much, nor do they appear to have a specific role within Mowbrays plan at the moment. They are talented players but not necessarily best suited to playing the roles theyve been signed for. That doesnt give me much confidence that 2 more windows worth of his signings would leave us well equipped for promotion. Just pleading for patience isnt a counter-argument to that point.

Can you please stop banging on about people talking about sacking him. Removing potentially Mercerman (who himself has more hinted and implied than said it) no one that I have seen has suggested it so stop using it as a shield to make people look stupid.

Mowbray does have enough credit in the bank, people arent arguing against that. Recent performances/results, especially the last 2, will always cause a lot ot criticism.