Mowbray’s Future

[USABlue]

8 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

You mean the same Mark Hughes who finished 9th In 3 consecutive seasons at Stoke. Who finished 8th with Fulham. Who kept Southampton up against the odds last season. 

Yes him, looks like I have not been accurate enough.  Where is he enjoying "success" now?

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, m1st said:

I rarely visit the Message Boards for which I signed up in my early years on t'Interweb because, while I respect other people's views, I don't like the way that many of them - including dome of the ones I agree with - are expressed.

I haven't voted in this poll because none of the options represent my precise views on here.

Those fans I know personally are probably fed up of me pointing out that when I watched the first match I remember my Dad bringing me to - 65 years ago - we were in mid-table in Division Two. And where are we now? Mid-table in the Championship.

While it would be WONDERFUL to be back in the Premier League, I would rather see it happen slowly and steadily, and wouldn't worry too much if it didn't happen next season or even the season after that.

We've had a real rollercoaster ride over those 65 years and after the misjudgement, imo, of our owners replacing Allardyce, with first Kean, then Bowyer, I welcomed the arrival of Tony Mowbray as our first "proper" football manager since BFS was sacked.

I'm becoming less enamoured of TM because of some of the points that others have made; it's felt like we've signed players whom he knew when they were in their early years and who are -probably - just about capable of functioning at our present level. To me, we feel over-provided for in midfield  - that group of the squad has almost got a 'Never mind the quality, feel the width' - with the defence and attack under-populated by comparison.

I worry who the owners would choose to replace Mowbray if they decided to sack him; but, for the time being, I guess it's better the devil we know for the time being. But the summer window will be crucial; he has to show a ruthless streak towards lads who may have reached their peak professionally and cannot push us further up the table.

Welcome back!

Agreed. Be afraid, be very afraid about whom the owners might put in place of TM.

I also agree that loyalty seems to have become a weakness for TM. Perhaps, it is even a sign of player power. If the lunatics aren't quite running the asylum, maybe they have junior managers' roles.

It has started to irk me, when I hear TM still saying he is happy with his current squad etc. Ruthlessness is certainly required in the summer.

I do get your point about gradualism, but I worry about standing still, stagnation, regression and...... another relegation.

I think the manner in which the owners p***d away our premier league status still rankles with many and, let's face it, we haven't been anywhere near competitive at the top end of the championship, ever since we came down...and that is 7 long years ago!

I am not even convinced the owners do want to take us to the next level.

[DE.]

The owners stumbled upon TM, as they did with Bowyer. It wasn't some intricate plan that has come together, he was free, cheap and whoever represents him obviously managed to impress Suhail or Senior. Bowyer and Mowbray have been our only managers since they appeared who can be classed as "successful" - and both were cheap, quite obscure options. Bowyer got the gig because he was already here, Mowbray was on the managerial scrapheap after Coventry and we were likely his last shot at revitalising his career. 

There's no doubt that both Bowyer and Mowbray have overperformed relative to their achievements and standing in the game prior to joining us, but this was pure luck. So, yes, if Mowbray does leave we should be very fearful of what comes next. These owners have never taken the managerial position seriously enough and that has been a core component of our gradual demise.

[Stuart]

54 minutes ago, DE. said:

The owners stumbled upon TM, as they did with Bowyer. It wasn't some intricate plan that has come together, he was free, cheap and whoever represents him obviously managed to impress Suhail or Senior. Bowyer and Mowbray have been our only managers since they appeared who can be classed as "successful" - and both were cheap, quite obscure options. Bowyer got the gig because he was already here, Mowbray was on the managerial scrapheap after Coventry and we were likely his last shot at revitalising his career. 

There's no doubt that both Bowyer and Mowbray have overperformed relative to their achievements and standing in the game prior to joining us, but this was pure luck. So, yes, if Mowbray does leave we should be very fearful of what comes next. These owners have never taken the managerial position seriously enough and that has been a core component of our gradual demise.

Whilst I agree, I bet Bowyer wishes he’d had £7m to throw away. And Lambert!

[DE.]

Just now, Stuart said:

Whilst I agree, I bet Bowyer wishes he’d had £7m to throw away. And Lambert!

I suppose to some degree Bowyer had greater flexibility in terms of the wage budget. I have to think we were spending a lot more on wages with the likes of Robinson, Hanley, Duffy, Lowe (wasn't he on something stupid like £20k a week?), Cairney, Evans, Rhodes and Gestede in the team. How the difference balances out with the £7m earmarked for Brereton I'm not sure, but GB certainly had a decent enough level of backing in terms of wage budget if not transfer fees. 

As for Lambert, he obviously wanted a decent budget but saw what Coyle was eventually left to work with and ran a mile.

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Whilst I agree, I bet Bowyer wishes he’d had £7m to throw away. And Lambert!

Gestede, Cairney, Duffy, Conway, Marshall and Evans combined cost less than half of £7 Million.

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, DeeCee said:

So you got a ticking off?

Just a slap on the wrist

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

I wish I shared you faith Chaddy but sadly I don't. 

well I hope we can respectfully agree to disagree

10 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

We best start offering now, there's a lot of shit to shift and I can't see a massive queue lining up to take them.

Hart

Samuel

Bennett

Gladwin

Conway

Smallwood

Williams all need moving out immediately.

Conway and Gladwin both out of contract this summer. 

Bennett for me is a starter for me. 

Why Hart was given a new contract I don't know. I can see Williams and Smallwood wanted 1st team football and leaving. Samuel should be able to get a league 1 club or bottom 6 clubhow?

9 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

That's what he has said alright, but should he have known who would be good enough without trying them out? He has a lot of work to do now in the summer due to lack of addressing concern issues in summer and in January. I am all for giving him time, but I am concerned that a lack of pro-activity with regards who is good enough or not leaving too much to do this summer to put us in a position to compete for promotion next season. 

We need 1-2 center halves, 1 right back,1 left back, 1 winger and at least 1 striker. Of those players we need at least 3 of them to be good enough to come straight into the starting 11. Definitely 1 center half, 1 striker and 1 winger (to replace Reed) need to all be top players. If we had have signed even a good center half and striker last summer or in January, that would mean less to do next summer. 

If last summer was 3/10 with regards recruitment, then next summer needs to be 8 or even 9 out of 10. 

He has it all to do 

how? until they play at this level how do you know I.e. Dack or Bell. 

The new European scouting network will take time to develop and it could be Summer 2020 before we see the benefits of it. I felt our summer recruitment was fine IMO. You will disagree so lets agree to disagree. 

I have said we need 7 to 8 new players this summer. keeper to challenge to Raya, new left back, centre back(which I think Mowbray will sign Bauer for), right back, 1 centre midfield, 1 winger and 1 striker. 

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You are taking the poll as a negative thing. It is a way of getting a general consensus of whether recent criticism of him, very deserved at that, has left our fan base in support of him still or wanting him out.

The poll has been useful in proving conclusively that, contrary what some would like you to think, that (based on the sample) the fanbase is still united behind Mowbray staying as manager, with only a tiny minority suggesting otherwise. Hardly the results youd expect from a negative, pessimistic, torch burning fan base desperate for the managers blood. Many would like assurances that he can prove that he is aware of and capable of fixing the major issues currently holding the team back before committing blindly long term. A very fair and open minded stance to have.

You also consider discussing the major flaws at the moment as "clogging up the messageboard" so theres no middle ground with you. 

Theres a poll with an incredibly low percentage of our fans wanting Mowbray out. The exercise has proven that the fans are behind Mowbray. So you choose to moan about the poll in the first place.

less than 4 percentage wanted rid of Mowbray. and I wouldn't say 159 voters represent the Rovers fans does it. and I have aware of how politics polls worked before someone tells me. without the poll I already knew that the majority of the fan base is still behind Mowbray as manager. 

Discussing the major flaws at the moment? Yes it does clogged up the messagebaord cos we go over and over the same points most days do me and you. 

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Hes far too loyal to players who are useful to have around but who wont push us forward. He seems oblivious to the problems we have in defence. Smallwood and Bennett I would be happy to keep around but only if they are phased out and not regulars. Useful squad players perhaps but no more.

Id love to know how @chaddyrovers is so sure that hes going to show a ruthless side and cull those not deemed good enough. Nothing suggests that is the case so far.

Haven't I already told you yesterday. 

9 hours ago, Mercer said:

Recruitment is a problem and there are suggestions we appoint a Director of Recruitment. 

Some suggestions in this thread Venus and Lowe should be replaced.  It was Mowbray who appointed them in their roles, and sees their day to day work, so yet again I would question his judgement.

 

Okay, Mowbray got us back but I think it was despite him and not because of him.  We were the best resourced club in a pi$$ poor League One and at times, I think we got out of jail given the very poor quality of the opposition. 

IMO, there's no mileage in giving Mowbray another window or seeing where we are come October / November next season.  IMO, there is little evidence to suggest Mowbray can take us any further and he should be replaced.

 

we have head of recruitment already in Stuart Harvey. 

Let Mowbray decide his staff and not fans. 

So if you are saying that we should have got promoted cos we were the best resourced club then we aren't Sunderland walking the league this season? and why did it take Sheffield United 5 years to get promote back to Championship? or why it took Leeds United 3 years to get promoted? 

6 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Karanka is a yes from me, can punt Ben for a second time 

Karanka? can you explain why you want and the reasons behind it? 

I cant stand the guy. remind me of the mini whinging Mourinho MK11. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

I cant stand the guy. remind me of the mini whinging Mourinho MK11. 

 You can't stand Pulis either but he showed up your hero in the Rovers dugout at the weekend. 

[Mercer]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

we have head of recruitment already in Stuart Harvey.  Did he scout Brereton?

Let Mowbray decide his staff and not fans.  Venus and Lowe don't look great appointments to me.

So if you are saying that we should have got promoted cos we were the best resourced club then we aren't Sunderland walking the league this season? and why did it take Sheffield United 5 years to get promote back to Championship? or why it took Leeds United 3 years to get promoted?  Well according to you Chaddy, we shouldn't compare ourselves to other clubs so a nebulous argument from you.

 

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

 

About our hoofball. In my opinion, our best halves of 'football' speaking only in terms of keeping it on the deck etc came in the first half at Reading and Sheffield United, both when there is no Graham because it just seems too tempting to lump it when he's up there! I remember when we had Gestede, and Duffy was being called out on twitter about the hoofball and his response was "we have one of the best headers in the league, why wouldn't we try and use it?".

Footballers too often look to pass the buck as fast as possible and look for the easy ball out and when Graham doesn't start the game they know they can't get away with it. Mowbray often refuses to criticise our style of play, but for someone whose Boro team came to Ewood and played us off the park under Kean and WBA team who played lovely stuff when they went up as Champions, he surely can't be happy putting that team out in his image and Saturday must have been embarrassing for him. Hopefully he has targets in mind to address this, but whilst we play 4231 and Graham up top I don't see how we can play attractive football due to Grahams lack of mobility and pace.

After 2 years, i still don't know what kind of 4231 he even wants to play, we're currently playing one with our 2 widest players of the 3 being a striker and a CM. Are we trying to play a formation where the widest players are like wingers, like Norwich and Leeds? Or are we playing a narrow version where we effectively have 3 attacking midfielders but currently don't have the personnel to do it? His signings of Rothwell (CAM) Palmer (CAM) and then Chapman (Winger) suggests even he doesn't know and has gone for a bit of both. Would've been interesting to see where he planned to put Freeman in this current set up had our bid been accepted although it wouldn't have surprised me to see him slot in at right back to allow Conway a game.

You make a very good point on why we play so many long balls cos we Graham plays and he can hold on to it and the lack of quality centre midfield playmaker. That's why I thought Whittingham was signed for. 

Yes you make a good point about style at Boro and WBA. But he has said he wants to play a similar style but this is going to require some new players. 

He did say that he like playing a striker/inside forward(Antonsson and Armstrong) on one side of the 3 man behind Graham and a defensive winger like a Conway or Bennett on the other side. that's comment was last season tho. He look like he has carry on this style this season with Armstrong on 1 side and Reed on other. 

on going forward, I agree if we want to a more open attractive style then we have fazed Graham out shortly all the next 18 months whilst he carry on having a role at the club. 

maybe we see in the future Armstrong up front with Dack in 10 role with Rothwell and Chapman wide with Travis and an other in in centre midfield. How would you like to see us play and what do you think of the front 4 I mention? 

 

Also your post above was very good and enjoyment to read it tonight

 

 

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Great post.

About our hoofball. In my opinion, our best halves of 'football' speaking only in terms of keeping it on the deck etc came in the first half at Reading and Sheffield United, both when there is no Graham because it just seems too tempting to lump it when he's up there! I remember when we had Gestede, and Duffy was being called out on twitter about the hoofball and his response was "we have one of the best headers in the league, why wouldn't we try and use it?".

Footballers too often look to pass the buck as fast as possible and look for the easy ball out and when Graham doesn't start the game they know they can't get away with it. Mowbray often refuses to criticise our style of play, but for someone whose Boro team came to Ewood and played us off the park under Kean and WBA team who played lovely stuff when they went up as Champions, he surely can't be happy putting that team out in his image and Saturday must have been embarrassing for him. Hopefully he has targets in mind to address this, but whilst we play 4231 and Graham up top I don't see how we can play attractive football due to Grahams lack of mobility and pace.

After 2 years, i still don't know what kind of 4231 he even wants to play, we're currently playing one with our 2 widest players of the 3 being a striker and a CM. Are we trying to play a formation where the widest players are like wingers, like Norwich and Leeds? Or are we playing a narrow version where we effectively have 3 attacking midfielders but currently don't have the personnel to do it? His signings of Rothwell (CAM) Palmer (CAM) and then Chapman (Winger) suggests even he doesn't know and has gone for a bit of both. Would've been interesting to see where he planned to put Freeman in this current set up had our bid been accepted although it wouldn't have surprised me to see him slot in at right back to allow Conway a game.

Reading and Sheff United first halves yielded a total of zero goals, watched the first on TV and was at the Sheffield Utd game and if they are our halves where we played the best football then we are in trouble. Very few clear cut chances created in either, especially at Sheffield Utd bar a couple of free kicks.

Graham is an easy out ball but it doesnt even favour him to just lump it in the air. He is good on the floor as well, far better than Brereton and as a central player, Armstrong. 

[Mercer]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You make a very good point on why we play so many long balls cos we Graham plays and he can hold on to it and the lack of quality centre midfield playmaker. That's why I thought Whittingham was signed for. 

Yes you make a good point about style at Boro and WBA. But he has said he wants to play a similar style but this is going to require some new players. 

He did say that he like playing a striker/inside forward(Antonsson and Armstrong) on one side of the 3 man behind Graham and a defensive winger like a Conway or Bennett on the other side. that's comment was last season tho. He look like he has carry on this style this season with Armstrong on 1 side and Reed on other. 

on going forward, I agree if we want to a more open attractive style then we have fazed Graham out shortly all the next 18 months whilst he carry on having a role at the club. 

maybe we see in the future Armstrong up front with Dack in 10 role with Rothwell and Chapman wide with Travis and an other in in centre midfield. How would you like to see us play and what do you think of the front 4 I mention? 

 

Also your post above was very good and enjoyment to read it tonight

 

 

What nonsense.

Graham may not be the most mobile but it does not excuse all the hoof ball I think we've seen for two years under Mowbray.

An organised and well coached side should be capable of effective transition, movement, moving the ball quickly, accurately and with purpose and capable of getting forward to support the front man in numbers.

Good managers move to clubs and impose their identity, style and way of playing very quickly.

In contrast, I do not think Rovers have an identity, style or way of playing.  Other than our hoof ball, I think our transition is slow, our movement is poor, we are uncomfortable on the ball both in terms of possession and distribution and our front man is too often isolated.  I think it begs the question as to what Mowbray, Venus and Lowe have been doing for two years.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Reading and Sheff United first halves yielded a total of zero goals, watched the first on TV and was at the Sheffield Utd game and if they are our halves where we played the best football then we are in trouble. Very few clear cut chances created in either, especially at Sheffield Utd bar a couple of free kicks.

Graham is an easy out ball but it doesnt even favour him to just lump it in the air. He is good on the floor as well, far better than Brereton and as a central player, Armstrong. 

I tend to agree in terms of high pressing, passing the ball on floor, understood the point @Mellor Rover made. 

Against Reading we should have at least 3 in the 1st half

[Mercer]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I tend to agree in terms of high pressing, passing the ball on floor, understood the point @Mellor Rover made. 

Against Reading we should have at least 3 in the 1st half

and Reading should have had at least two other goals!!!

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mercer said:

What nonsense.

Graham may not be the most mobile but it does not excuse all the hoof ball I think we've seen for two years under Mowbray.

An organised and well coached side should be capable of effective transition, movement, ability to move the ball quickly, accurately and with purpose and capable of getting forward to support the front man in numbers.

Good managers move to clubs and impose their identity, style and way of playing very quickly.

In contrast, I do not think Rovers have an identity, style or way of playing.  Other than our hoof ball, I think our transition is slow, our movement is poor, we are uncomfortable on the ball both in terms of possession and distribution and our front man is too often isolated.  I think it begs the question as to what Mowbray, Venus and Lowe have been doing for two years.

 

A load of rubbish Mercer. 

Clearly didn't attend the Hull game do you? 

Hoof ball? 

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

A load of rubbish Mercer. 

Clearly didn't attend the Hull game do you? 

Hoof ball? 

Rubbish ?  I think not.

I look at our football over Mowbray's two years and not half a game or a game in isolation.

In my opinion, in the main, our football is terrible.  Hoof, hoof, hoof - you yourself have said this in a post 20 minutes ago "on why we play so many long balls" !!!

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

31 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Rubbish ?  I think not.

I look at our football over Mowbray's two years and not half a game or a game in isolation.

In my opinion, in the main, our football is terrible.  Hoof, hoof, hoof - you yourself have said this in a post 20 minutes ago "on why we play so many long balls" !!!

 

and so do I but I gave you an example. 

We play alot of switch of play from one flank to another. 

on Sunday we played 92 long passes out of 401 passes in the game

against Reading we played 76 long passes out of 512 passes in the game

against Bristol City we played 93 long passes out of 370 passes in the game

against Hull City we played 93 long passes out of 465 passes in the game. 

 

Hardly a long passing team are we?

Edited February 20, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[JacknOry]

Chaddy, I am not sure saying "I think our summer recruitment was fine" and then "I have said we need 7 to 8 new players this summer." are two comments that back eachother up. If our summer recruitment was fine we would not be needing that many surely?

Only Reed and Armstrong are deemed better than what we already had. One is a loan and another is someone we already had the season before. This would suggest that our summer recruitment was not that great because the players we brought in on the whole have not really improved our first team - just padded out our squad. 

[Songman]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

and so do I but I gave you an example. 

We play alot of switch of play from one flank to another. 

on Sunday we played 92 long passes out of 401 passes in the game

against Reading we played 76 long passes out of 512 passes in the game

against Bristol City we played 93 long passes out of 370 passes in the game

against Hull City we played 93 long passes out of 465 passes in the game. 

 

Hardly a long passing team are we?

Chaddy

Would it be possible for you to show the oppositions long pass stats for those games as well, that would give clearer view if we are playing more or less long passes than other teams.

A long pass is not necessarily a bad thing, the fact we don't tend to get players around DG quick enough is the problem. Interesting that from the games listed, the game DG was on the bench is the one we played the lowest number of long passes, which would suggest it's our tactic when he's on (as anyone who watches can clearly see).

I've had a quick Google but can't seem to find the stats.

[Mattyblue]

Joint most long balls with bottom of the league Ipswich (and joint least crosses).

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mattyblue

[blueboy3333]

Least crosses in the league is no surprise when we rarely get in behind the full backs. Tactically we are a pub team. 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Joint most long balls with bottom of the league Ipswich (and joint least crosses).

 

This is particularly damning when Mowbray's preferred choice of system is using wing backs! What good are they if we're not putting any bloody crosses in?

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Joint most long balls with bottom of the league Ipswich (and joint least crosses).

 

@chaddyrovers