Mowbray’s Future

[JHRover]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Good insight on the 2 year anniversary...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17451074.coach-captain-and-pa-on-mowbrays-two-years-at-rovers/

The manager’s PA said how she has worked with 9 managers in 11 years. A throwaway comment that nicely sums up the Venky era.

I make it 10 in 11 years - Hughes, Ince, Allardyce, Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle and Mowbray - unless she was discounting Kean as he wasn't a manager. Anyway, although a turnover on that scale sums up the turbulence we have had under these owners, I don't believe in isolation it is necessarily a bad thing - IF you have the background structure to cope with it and get the majority of the appointments correct. Sadly of those names only 3 or 4 have been successful appointments and the rest failures for various reasons - in fact Ince, Kean and Coyle should never have even been considered and will likely be 3 of the worst to ever grace this club. Chelsea for example have gone through Sarri, Conte, Mourinho x 2, Ancelotti, Villas Boas, Di Matteo, Grant, Scolari, Benitez and Hiddink x2 in the space of 15 years yet have been immensely successful - because they've appointed quality managers and have the structure behind the scenes to deal with a high turnover in managers. Leeds have gone through managers like mad but have finally arrived at a formula that works for them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I make it 10 in 11 years - Hughes, Ince, Allardyce, Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle and Mowbray - unless she was discounting Kean as he wasn't a manager. Anyway, although a turnover on that scale sums up the turbulence we have had under these owners, I don't believe in isolation it is necessarily a bad thing - IF you have the background structure to cope with it and get the majority of the appointments correct. Sadly of those names only 3 or 4 have been successful appointments and the rest failures for various reasons - in fact Ince, Kean and Coyle should never have even been considered and will likely be 3 of the worst to ever grace this club. Chelsea for example have gone through Sarri, Conte, Mourinho x 2, Ancelotti, Villas Boas, Di Matteo, Grant, Scolari, Benitez and Hiddink x2 in the space of 15 years yet have been immensely successful - because they've appointed quality managers and have the structure behind the scenes to deal with a high turnover in managers. Leeds have gone through managers like mad but have finally arrived at a formula that works for them.

Plenty of those Chelsea managers didn't work out and Leeds have achieved nothing yet after years of turmoil. 

Changing managers regularly is part of the modern game, but it's something that happens too much. Obviously there are extremes like what happened here with kean and I think that has effected rovers fans. Giving managers time is generally a good idea IF they have shown enough to suggest that they will be a long term success. I would include how they changed things off the field in that. 

Look at the example of Bristol City. They stuck with their manager and are flying it. I would say that's even more impressive than what the sky darlings Leeds are doing right now. 

Sheffield United have given wilder time. 

Possibly the best example of all is the Norwich manager. Plenty of their fans wanted him gone last season and look at them now. 

In fact I reckon the 3 promoted teams will be Norwich, Sheffield United and Bristol City. 

[JHRover]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Plenty of those Chelsea managers didn't work out and Leeds have achieved nothing yet after years of turmoil. 

Changing managers regularly is part of the modern game, but it's something that happens too much. Obviously there are extremes like what happened here with kean and I think that has effected rovers fans. Giving managers time is generally a good idea IF they have shown enough to suggest that they will be a long term success. I would include how they changed things off the field in that. 

Look at the example of Bristol City. They stuck with their manager and are flying it. I would say that's even more impressive than what the sky darlings Leeds are doing right now. 

Sheffield United have given wilder time. 

Possibly the best example of all is the Norwich manager. Plenty of their fans wanted him gone last season and look at them now. 

In fact I reckon the 3 promoted teams will be Norwich, Sheffield United and Bristol City. 

Almost every one of those Chelsea managers won a major trophy, all within a year of getting the job. Leeds have achieved nothing yet but their managerial chaos didn't relegate them to League One like it did with us.

I agree, in an ideal world you'd keep a manager for several years and some clubs seem to chop and change for the sake of it, but I don't agree that a manager should be awarded more time in some sort of principled stance to make a point about giving him time. If results are unacceptable or faith is lost then the manager has to go.

The problem is that we are too reliant on our manager. Even before Venkys we had a very traditional old school manager/chairman set up with John Williams running the club and old school Souness, Hughes and Allardyce left to get on with the job of managing the team. Clearly it worked for us at the time, but we were very reliant on those big personalities and lived in fear of them leaving as replacing them would be such a big ask.

Allardyce was clearly the ideal man for Rovers when he was here, and I wish he had been kept, but I also don't accept that his sacking immediately signified the end of the world - if we'd have conducted a proper recruitment process for his replacement rather than appoint his bib and cone man we could have progressed as a club.

Under Venkys our managers - until Lambert all of them very inexperienced and arguably not qualified for a club of this size - have held far too much sway and influence.

As much as I respect and appreciate the job Mowbray has done - my concern is that we're now in a position where we are utterly reliant on him in terms of keeping the owners on the straight and narrow and holding the club together - we are completely unprepared for a scenario in which we might have to part ways with him. That isnt me for one minute saying I want him to go any time soon - but it is a fact he will do at some point and we need to be prepared for that. Other clubs meanwhile have structures that enable a swift managerial change without much disruption to the club and team.

Edited February 22, 2019 by JHRover

[Bigdoggsteel]

51 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Almost every one of those Chelsea managers won a major trophy, all within a year of getting the job. Leeds have achieved nothing yet but their managerial chaos didn't relegate them to League One like it did with us.

I agree, in an ideal world you'd keep a manager for several years and some clubs seem to chop and change for the sake of it, but I don't agree that a manager should be awarded more time in some sort of principled stance to make a point about giving him time. If results are unacceptable or faith is lost then the manager has to go.

The problem is that we are too reliant on our manager. Even before Venkys we had a very traditional old school manager/chairman set up with John Williams running the club and old school Souness, Hughes and Allardyce left to get on with the job of managing the team. Clearly it worked for us at the time, but we were very reliant on those big personalities and lived in fear of them leaving as replacing them would be such a big ask.

Allardyce was clearly the ideal man for Rovers when he was here, and I wish he had been kept, but I also don't accept that his sacking immediately signified the end of the world - if we'd have conducted a proper recruitment process for his replacement rather than appoint his bib and cone man we could have progressed as a club.

Under Venkys our managers - until Lambert all of them very inexperienced and arguably not qualified for a club of this size - have held far too much sway and influence.

As much as I respect and appreciate the job Mowbray has done - my concern is that we're now in a position where we are utterly reliant on him in terms of keeping the owners on the straight and narrow and holding the club together - we are completely unprepared for a scenario in which we might have to part ways with him. That isnt me for one minute saying I want him to go any time soon - but it is a fact he will do at some point and we need to be prepared for that. Other clubs meanwhile have structures that enable a swift managerial change without much disruption to the club and team.

They did all win something pretty much, so they get most appointments correct in one way or another. Huge amounts of outlay on players also helps! Also, in fairness, Leeds did end up in League 1 too. 

Ya, I agree about the over reliance on the manager. Hopefully that lifts a bit with the new SMT. Although as you say, currently we aren't anywhere near ready for that. Mowbray leaving would probably end up disastrously for us one way or another. 

Totally agree on the line about Allardyce. You can pinpoint our descent/decline straight to the day he was sacked. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[USABlue]

8 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

They did all win something pretty much, so they get most appointments correct in one way or another. Huge amounts of outlay on players also helps! Also, in fairness, Leeds did end up in League 1 too. 

Ya, I agree about the over reliance on the manager. Hopefully that lifts a bit with the new SMT. Although as you say, currently we aren't anywhere near ready for that. Mowbray leaving would probably end up disastrously for us one way or another. 

Totally agree on the line about Allardyce. You can pinpoint our descent/decline straight to the day he was sacked. 

The day we were sold actually.  I maintain the problem was not sacking Allardyce but the choice of replacement and the refusal to remove him.  Coyle instead of Warnock was just as huge of a blunder.  Boy, this lot have overseen some doozies.

[perthblue02]

10 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Good insight on the 2 year anniversary...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17451074.coach-captain-and-pa-on-mowbrays-two-years-at-rovers/

The manager’s PA said how she has worked with 9 managers in 11 years. A throwaway comment that nicely sums up the Venky era.

Marks and Spencers chocolate biscuits ! when there's Aldi across and Asda up the road from Ewood, extravagant sod

Edited February 22, 2019 by perthblue02

[Mattyblue]

You can tell Mogga is a posh Teesider these days.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Mattyblue

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17453603.tony-mowbray-on-marking-two-years-as-rovers-manager/

Tony on his 'values'. It's a shame they don't include winning.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17453603.tony-mowbray-on-marking-two-years-as-rovers-manager/

Tony on his 'values'. It's a shame they don't include winning.

Once again, from my perspective you are wrong and Tony is right.

It takes time to “nurture” improvement. In his time, the squad is better, the individuals are better, the recruitment is better, the atmosphere is better and overall so far the results have been as good as we’ve had since Big Sam. Particularly the home form. All the minimum expectations have been surpassed.

The club from the outside seems to be better on every front you could list, and I think is disingenuous to dismiss the poor state he took over when considering the improvement overall.

Things change quickly in football but I have a large amount of faith in Tony to carry on the good work, which for me has been a resounding success so far.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Biz

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

Once again, from my perspective you are wrong and Tony is right.

It takes time to “nurture” improvement. In his time, the squad is better, the individuals are better, the recruitment is better, the atmosphere is better and overall so far the results have been as good as we’ve had since Big Sam. Particularly the home form. All the minimum expectations have been surpassed.

The club from the outside seems to be better on every front you could list, and I think is disingenuous to dismiss the poor state he took over when considering the improvement overall.

Things change quickly in football but I have a large amount of faith in Tony to carry on the good work, which for me has been a resounding success so far.

When you start virtue signalling your own values you better be winning football matches or you start to sound like you're only interested in how you're perceived. I don't give a shit what his values are, he isn't the Dalai Lama.  I just want him to win football matches, which is what he is paid to do. 

Our away record over the last ten games is a disgrace. The fact Tony has them all sat round the camp fire at Brockhall singing Kumbaya doesn't make that any more palatable. 

[JBiz]

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

When you start virtue signalling your own values you better be winning football matches or you start to sound like you're only interested in how you're perceived. I don't give a shit what his values are, he isn't the Dalai Lama.  I just want him to win football matches, which is what he is paid to do. 

Our away record over the last ten games is a disgrace. The fact Tony has them all sat round the camp fire at Brockhall singing Kumbaya doesn't make that any more palatable. 

I might be wrong but I estimate we’ve won more than 50% of the games with him with us. 

The relevance of his “tangible” impact far outweighs the relevance of his comments. That said, his approach in interviews is something I appreciate. 

I’m not assuming his likeable demeanour in these interviews means he can’t be hard with the players either. You don’t spend 10+ years at a decent standard and pick up several honours as a professional, if you’re a patsy.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Biz

[OldEwoodBlue]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

When you start virtue signalling your own values you better be winning football matches or you start to sound like you're only interested in how you're perceived. I don't give a shit what his values are, he isn't the Dalai Lama.  I just want him to win football matches, which is what he is paid to do. 

Our away record over the last ten games is a disgrace. The fact Tony has them all sat round the camp fire at Brockhall singing Kumbaya doesn't make that any more palatable. 

100% agreed BB

Problem is that Biz holds the concept of "taking part" above the one of "winning". 

This season Tony gets a "free hit" because of what he did so far. Next season he needs to get us promoted or get the sack.

Today he had better make sure we win the game.

[perthblue02]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

I might be wrong but I estimate we’ve won more than 50% of the games with him with us. 

 

Close, as of 17th Feb 46.3%

[Roverthechimp]

Remember how many seasons all we wanted was players to actually give a shit, a manager that wasn't a liar and some sort of pride/responsibility in representing Rovers.

To quote Fatboy Slim: "we've come a long way baby!"

 

[tomphil]

That defence is a job loser, some advice he'd better heed before the start of next season as if we are struggling by October..........

Ditch the 'we'll manage' attitude and actually manage by upgrading some of the favs especially when there is a bit of money available. No amount of luxury signings who might come good in a few years or on loan from a huge club or telling fans what you think they want to hear will cover over the cracks that have been glaringly evident since we were last in the division for much longer.

Wise up fella you've been in this game long enough.

[Exiled_Rover]

I don't feel like he's an improvement on Bowyer. 

[G Somerset Rover]

First 20 minutes ‘unnaceptable’ - TM’s words before one of his apologists attack me. After arguably the worst half of TM’s reign and 4 defeats on the bounce, how on earth were they not fired up from the traps today? Very concerning.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

1 minute ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

First 20 minutes ‘unnaceptable’ - TM’s words before one of his apologisers attacks me. After arguably the worst half of TM’s reign and 4 defeats on the bounce, how on earth were they not fired up from the traps today? Very concerning.

Strange isn't it,we saw the same at many games last season.Players not being motivated from the kick off is a recipe for disaster.

[Pedro]

33 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I don't feel like he's an improvement on Bowyer. 

He is in the fact we have similar results with far worse players. We massively underachieved with Bowyer's squad. 

[Mercer]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Strange isn't it,we saw the same at many games last season.Players not being motivated from the kick off is a recipe for disaster.

and we got away with it because League One is pi$$ poor.  I think even C o y l e would have got us up!

[roversfan99]

Just now, Mercer said:

and we got away with it because League One is pi$$ poor.  I think even C o y l e would have got us up!

He wouldn't.

[blueboy3333]

9 minutes ago, Pedro said:

He is in the fact we have similar results with far worse players. We massively underachieved with Bowyer's squad. 

He isn't. Bowyers 2 full seasons yielded 67pts (14/15) and 70 pts (13/14)

[Ewood Ace]

34 games into the season and its the same problem that was there on the first day of the season. Mowbray clearly can't sort it out and until we do we won't progress forward, that is why we need a change in manager.

[roversfan99]

One thing you would say in comparison to Coyle. Goes without saying that he couldnt organise a defence. But with far less resources and time he tried to bring in more defensive players, at least acknowledging that the previous defence had been picked to pieces by vultures even if he was incapable of fixing it.

In comparison, Coyle brought in Mulgrew who is at least a natural centre back (who has played elsewhere) whereas Mowbray brought in Rodwell. Coyle spent his only money on Williams, Mowbray spent a similar fee on Bell. Both not up to it. Coyle brought in Hendrie, Mowbray brought in Hart, low risk gambles but nowhere near good enough. Hoban and Downing both slight temporary upgrades, neither Championship standard. Coyle also added Greer and Brown, both experienced but ultimately well past it. We had no defensive alternatives today, and thats including playing a midfielder and an incapable full back as part of the back 4. And we only had 2 unavailable.

[roversfan99]

Also the solution is not just to add a League 1 free agent centre back and the problem will disappear. If that is what we do. Its a far more deep rooted problem than that. For a start, even if he turned into a superb signing, Bell would still be giving away goals on the left. Raya would still be giving away gifts. We would presumably still keep buckling holding onto leads. The defence needs revamping and it needs far better guidance from the manager.