Mowbray’s Future

[Ewood Ace]

Mowbray says our conceding goals is not about tactics. Of course he thinks that because otherwise it would mean taking a look at himself. I would suggest that he looks at Steve Bruce at Sheffield Wednesday when Bruce took over at Sheffield Wednesday they had conceded 4 more goals than us, 7 games later we have conceded 7 more goals than them. Bruce is doing it with the same players that were there previously, so clearly he has done something different tactically for those players to have conceded 3 goals in 7 games. Yet Mowbray shrugs his shoulders and takes no responsibility, he clearly can't sort it out and that is why it is time for him to go.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Blue blood]

6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Mowbray says our conceding goals is not about tactics. Of course he thinks that because otherwise it would mean taking a look at himself. I would suggest that he looks at Steve Bruce at Sheffield Wednesday when Bruce took over at Sheffield Wednesday they had conceded 4 more goals than us, 7 games later we have conceded 7 more goals than them. Bruce is doing it with the same players that were there previously, so clearly he has done something different tactically for those players to have conceded 3 goals in 7 games. Yet Mowbray shrugs his shoulders and takes no responsibility, he clearly can't sort it out and that is why it is time for him to go

Great post highlighting how much of the defensive fragility is down to management and why we don't need a complete overhaul in defence/the team. Yes, we definitely needed strengthening in defence but a complete overhaul isn't necessary. With good coaching Lenihen and Nayambe are good enough for this level and I reckon but am less certain the same goes for Bell and Rodwell. A tough centre half would improve things and better cover for the full backs would really strengthen the team but it's not like TM has nothing to work with. Add in we've some solid defensive midfielders - Travis, Reed, Bennett and for certain situations Smallwood and it's hard to argue it's not poor management causing our defensive woes.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Mowbray says our conceding goals is not about tactics. Of course he thinks that because otherwise it would mean taking a look at himself. I would suggest that he looks at Steve Bruce at Sheffield Wednesday when Bruce took over at Sheffield Wednesday they had conceded 4 more goals than us, 7 games later we have conceded 7 more goals than them. Bruce is doing it with the same players that were there previously, so clearly he has done something different tactically for those players to have conceded 3 goals in 7 games. Yet Mowbray shrugs his shoulders and takes no responsibility, he clearly can't sort it out and that is why it is time for him to go.

Ya, one quote actually said "I'm not big into formations or tactics" when asked about our leaking of goals. That its about "whats in the players bellies" 

OK, that's fair enough. A lot of our goals were conceded due to individual errors, a lack of leadership and a bravery deficit. However, I believe the players aren't afraid of Mowbray and that is a reason for this slump. They don't fear him giving them a bollocking, let alone dropping them. So therefore I think they sometimes think "nah, I don't think I'll header that". Mulgrew and Bell the biggest culprits. I don't think Rayas mistakes are down to a lack of bravery or fear of the manager, I just don't think he is big or physical enough to command his area and that his issues are now compounded with nerves. Don't get me started on his kicking, apart from to say it's atrocious. 

So let's just say Mowbray replaces those who are under performing, will that fix things? I'm not convinced. I think there are issues with our coaching and fitness. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[tomphil]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

There's been the odd tried and tested signing like Whittingham and Caddis which didn't really work out, and he's inherited a very experienced group.

I suspect the answer is that he is told the way to get cash from the owners is to do so with re-sale value in mind and also the best way to impress the owners and win their 'trust' is to deliver a few massive increases like Dack will be.

A few million quid and a contract on someone or two who can run the defence for a good few years and act as a building block for the team and younger players is vital to what they are trying to do here he needs to convince them of that.

I'd say come next Oct his job might depend on it.

 

[OJRovers]

I’m really disappointed we didn’t go for centre back Souttar from Stoke in January. He went on loan to Fleetwood and has been brilliant by all accounts.

Tony moaned about players not being available, but that’s not true, we just don’t seem to be able to scout players unless they’ve played well against a Mowbray team at some point in the past.

 

[Amo]

15 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

So jealous of sheff Utd, team play good attacking football, well organised with a clear style and a manager that fights for everything. A team that I could certainly buy into. So far ahead of us it’s frightening we are in the same league 

Further salt in the wound, we're crying out for a centre-back and they have Jack O'Connell.

Who was it that cut him loose? Bowyer?

[AllRoverAsia]

15 minutes ago, Amo said:

Further salt in the wound, we're crying out for a centre-back and they have Jack O'Connell.

Who was it that cut him loose? Bowyer?

Yes it was Bowyer, no chance for a 6'3" left footed CB or LB.

To be fair Bowyer was decent at recruitment and those were different days with a better squad. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by AllRoverAsia

[arbitro]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I think he's talking about the transfer window arbitro and how it stops you strengthening as and when rather than having to wait until the summer.

Thanks PB. I was wracking my brain trying to think of some old rules.

[Iceman]

still seems like he cant find a stable match day 11, on a consistent basis 

[Amo]

36 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Yes it was Bowyer, no chance for a 6'3" left footed CB or LB.

To be fair Bowyer was decent at recruitment and those were different days with a better squad. 

Bowyer had a soft spot for certain players. Lowe & Hanley would almost always play regardless of form or ability.

Judge & O'Connell never got a look in but proved themselves elsewhere.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Amo said:

Bowyer had a soft spot for certain players. Lowe & Hanley would almost always play regardless of form or ability.

Judge & O'Connell never got a look in but proved themselves elsewhere.

Good point,  I should have written "better squad apart from Lowe".

Thought Hanley was decent Championship.

Edited March 5, 2019 by AllRoverAsia

[The Axe]

1 hour ago, Amo said:

Further salt in the wound, we're crying out for a centre-back and they have Jack O'Connell.

Who was it that cut him loose? Bowyer?

Theoretically but not sure that Bowyer called the shots on that one. Think Venky's were too tempted by the fee for a player who was not in the first team.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Amo said:

Bowyer had a soft spot for certain players. Lowe & Hanley would almost always play regardless of form or ability.

Judge & O'Connell never got a look in but proved themselves elsewhere.

Add King and arguably Cairney to that list and you have 4 good to brilliant Championship players 

[AAK]

In the end, bowyer and Mowbray very similar, in many ways. A lot of fans love both, because they steadied the ship at very low points in the clubs history, of which we should always be grateful. However both should have done far better, Bowyer with the squad he had, and Mowbray with the backing that he's had financially. Bowyer would still be here today if it wasnt for that back stabbing Shaw (which is obviously a catch 22 scenario) and Mowbray will be here for as long as he wants, because both were/are so friendly with the owners.

We are again stuck and divided, just as under bowyer, 50% of fans know we need to move onto a manager who wasn't/isn't as cautious, and had/has the ability to deliver promotion, but the other half are loyal to the current manager because they've accepted mediocrity and are happy with just being one of those "they're doing okay" sides. You can't criticise either side, the blame lies solely with the owners. I firmly believe we would still be a PL side under Williams stewardship if these lot never came in or let Williams do the job he always did so well.

Edited March 5, 2019 by AAK

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, AAK said:

In the end m, bowyer and Mowbray very similar in many ways. A lot of fans loves both, because they steadied the ship at very low points in the club a history, of which we should always be grateful. However both should have done far better, Bowyer with the squad he had, and Mowbray with the backing that he's had financially. Bowyer would still be here today if it wasnt for that back stabbing Shaw and Mowbray will be here for as long as he wants, because both were/are so friendly with the owners.

We are again stuck and divided, just as under bowyer, 50% of fans know we need to move onto a manager who wasn't/isn't as cautious, and had/has the ability to deliver promotion, but the other half are loyal to the current manager because they've accepted mediocrity and are happy with just being one of those "they're doing okay" sides.

Not fair. I don't think any fan has accepted mediocrity. They are hoping that Mowbray does what he has promised to do and again delivers success in the Championship. Bowyer was great here, but he didn't have Mowbrays past success in the championship or budget. 

The Mowbray/Bowyer comparison doesn't add up for me

[AAK]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not fair. I don't think any fan has accepted mediocrity. They are hoping that Mowbray does what he has promised to do and again delivers success in the Championship. Bowyer was great here, but he didn't have Mowbrays past success in the championship or budget. 

The Mowbray/Bowyer comparison doesn't add up for me

Granted they aren't 100% identical scenerios, but I think there are glaring similarities. Mediocrity probably the wrong word, apologies, more accepting of the situation.

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not fair. I don't think any fan has accepted mediocrity. They are hoping that Mowbray does what he has promised to do and again delivers success in the Championship. Bowyer was great here, but he didn't have Mowbrays past success in the championship or budget. 

The Mowbray/Bowyer comparison doesn't add up for me

Mowbray's past success at this level is irrelevant it was 11 years ago the League is completely different now, I have been stopped from posting this by moderators. Coyle has won promotion more recently from the Championship than Mowbray. Mowbray is well behind other mangers now in terms of things like fitness and tapping into the European market. 

Both Mowbray and Bowyer are steady hands who lack that tactical nous to take that step to top 6 or top 2. Neither are good at setting up a solid foundation for the team in defence. Both constantly play with 2 limited holding midfielders, leaving the best central midfielder wide on the right. Also Mowbray like Bowyer continuously keeps faith with certain players who are proven to not be good enough. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[martonrover]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not fair. I don't think any fan has accepted mediocrity. They are hoping that Mowbray does what he has promised to do and again delivers success in the Championship. Bowyer was great here, but he didn't have Mowbrays past success in the championship or budget. 

The Mowbray/Bowyer comparison doesn't add up for me

Mowbray's one promotion from the Championship came a long time ago and, to give it context, occurred a season before Coyle achieved the same feat.

Edited March 5, 2019 by martonrover

[JHRover]

Bowyer and Mowbray both ended up as manager effectively by accident rather than design. Both arrived into abysmal, chaotic and horrible periods in the club's history and followed a succession of failed managers and boardroom instability.

Bowyer followed Kean-Berg-Appleton and the chaos upstairs with Agnew/Shaw and Singh. He steadied the ship by securing survival from a tricky position, established a link to the owners and was able to construct a team that fans loved for being honest, genuine and likeable with none of the baggage of the seasons before. He was liked, trusted and did a good job.

Mowbray followed a similar spell of chaos after Lambert and Coyle and also the boardroom shenanigans with Myers and Shaw leaving, Cheston running the place on his own and then the activities of Pasha behind the scenes. Mowbray inherited a slightly worse position on the pitch but was unfortunate to take us down with 51 points. Mowbray, like Bowyer, has established trust with both the owners and the fans and seems to be well liked and respected by almost all involved.

[Amo]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Add King and arguably Cairney to that list and you have 4 good to brilliant Championship players 

Robinson, Dann, Hanley, Olsson, Judge, Rochina, Marshall, Cairney, King, Rudy, Rhodes

How can you fail to even make the playoffs with those players at your disposal?  

[Angry_Pirate]

Love a good Jason Lowe bash.

Scenario: You die, go to hell, and are manager of Hell FC. Bradley Orr is your RB, Leon Best up front and the only decision you're allowed to make is who partners Danny Murphy in CM. Your choice is between Jason Lowe and Richard Smallw*nk.

I'll say this once (then hide for a bit) Lowe is better than Smallw*nk.

(PS. We would have won L1 with Bowyer.)

[Oldgregg86]

34 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Love a good Jason Lowe bash.

Scenario: You die, go to hell, and are manager of Hell FC. Bradley Orr is your RB, Leon Best up front and the only decision you're allowed to make is who partners Danny Murphy in CM. Your choice is between Jason Lowe and Richard Smallw*nk.

I'll say this once (then hide for a bit) Lowe is better than Smallw*nk.

(PS. We would have won L1 with Bowyer.)

Jason Lowe is not better than smallwank. Not even close

[Oldgregg86]

4 hours ago, Amo said:

Robinson, Dann, Hanley, Olsson, Judge, Rochina, Marshall, Cairney, King, Rudy, Rhodes

How can you fail to even make the playoffs with those players at your disposal?  

Looking back it's pretty diabolical.

[yellowsubmarine]

10 hours ago, Iceman said:

still seems like he cant find a stable match day 11, on a consistent basis 

Mowbray plays his team based on our opposition. Somehow he feels he can outcounter and outwit other teams who play to their own strength.

[Stuart]

20 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

He’s obviously realised he made an enormous rick in not bringing in players in January.

He obviously hasn’t. He’s talking like there wasn’t one!

Comments like these don’t help Mowbray’s cause one bit. He sounds desperate and delusional.

Meanwhile after the January window shut he said the following:

“The balance of course is the better we do and the closer we are to touching the top six you have to keep the faith with the group,” he said.

“There is the argument of course to say ‘why don’t you improve the group?’ You can have the perception of what might improve the group but it’s not just about talent, it’s about character, personality and driven individuals that can lead the team forward.

“You might get a technically better footballer but he might not have the personality and the drive for what I feel is my job which is to have faith in this group. But hopefully I will know the moment I need to strengthen. That process has already started.”

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17402104.what-mowbray-has-learned-from-the-january-transfer-window/

Read that again: “hopefully I will know the moment I need to strengthen.”

Bit of a concern that he didn’t know then when most right-thinking fans could see the glaring weaknesses in defence.

Our shop window form in January has probably both saved us and killed us this season. A false four (games) - with the last game in December and first game in February being hammerings. Our form since the window closed of W0D1L5.

And we had money to spend!