Mowbray’s Future

[SBlue]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm not advocating all out attack, but what are we trying to achieve with our current formation? You'd assume soak up pressure and counter attack (as we did a number of times last season) but it's more like soak up pressure and then hoof it up the pitch. I don't see what the point is if we can't defend properly, and the long ball tactic clearly isn't working right now. It feels like we'd be better off trying to get on the front foot a little and make the opposition worry about us, rather than being the other way around in every match. It's not like we don't have attacking players to worry the opposition. Graham is still a good striker and hold up man at this level, Armstrong has good pace, Dack can score and assist. Brereton might even be able to worry opposition defences if he was more central. I just don't understand what we're trying to do at the moment in terms of playing style.

Three occasions yesterday we got into clear goalscoring opportunities (one went in!) through a high press.

Harshly the referee pulled us back each time.

That’s where I think we’ve been most effective this season - defending from the front.

Problem is you get past that and our defence has an aneurysm.

I think the tactic is right for the Championship.

But we need better players.

Edited March 10, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[DE.]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Three occasions yesterday we got into clear goalscoring opportunities (one went in!) through a high press.

Harshly the referee pulled us back each time.

That’s where I think we’ve been most effective this season - defending from the front.

Problem is you get past that and our defence has an aneurysm.

The other problem is we set up with two DM's in Evans/Smallwood, which you typically wouldn't do if your game plan was to press high. They don't seem to be helping as far as conceding goals in concerned, so I'd prefer (at home at least) to only have the one DM and then have a box-to-box type midfielder (such as Travis) doing a bit of attacking and defending. Maybe that is one of Evans or Smallwood's remits but we know neither are good enough to do both.

[SBlue]

Just now, DE. said:

The other problem is we set up with two DM's in Evans/Smallwood, which you typically wouldn't do if your game plan was to press high. They don't seem to be helping as far as conceding goals in concerned, so I'd prefer (at home at least) to only have the one DM and then have a box-to-box type midfielder (such as Travis) doing a bit of attacking and defending. Maybe that is one of Evans or Smallwood's remits but we know neither are good enough to do both.

Surprising for me I thought Evans joined in really well getting the ball back in their half, certainly in the first 45.

Also we’d be talking about a beautiful Smallwood defence splitting assist if the referee wasn’t bent.

I do prefer Travis with A.N. Other, but I think we can all see he has looked massively out of sorts since Brentford.

[DE.]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Surprising for me I thought Evans joined in really well getting the ball back in their half, certainly in the first 45.

Also we’d be talking about a beautiful Smallwood defence splitting assist if the referee wasn’t bent.

I do prefer Travis with A.N. Other, but I think we can all see he has looked massively out of sorts since Brentford.

Hand on heart I don't think many would say they want to see the Evans/Smallwood pairing in midfield unless absolutely necessary, so I do question Mowbray picking those two, particularly at home. I might understand it a bit more away from home, but then again I'd still prefer not to have both of them together. I wouldn't mind seeing Reed alongside Evans if Travis isn't considered reliable enough. Either way we really do need at least one box to box midfielder in the summer if we are going to keep playing the way we're playing. Unlikely we will be able to shift Evans or Smallwood due to their recent contract extensions.

[blueboy3333]

53 minutes ago, DE. said:

We simply can't defend despite playing a defensive formation, so what exactly are we doing on the training ground?

Baking biscuits in the Brockhall Bake-Off. 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

The most bitterly ironic things for me with Mowbray is that he used to be a central defender, but his teams don’t defend well at all.

Also, we played an incredibly defensive side yesterday and conceded a goal in a meek manner yet again....?

...after 8 minutes.

He has to stop chopping and changing the side around.

How many of us were saying repeatedly in January that we needed to buy a central defender? But no, no, Trust Mowbray. Well he did it his way and we are now feeling the consequences of his inaction. Didn’t help that he said he had money to spend.

[JHRover]

Its one or the other - either Mowbray had money yet decided to not invest whilst allowing numerous defensive options to leave - or Mowbray isn't being truthful about things and he didn't have money or wasn't able to use it or was told to let a few out for financial reasons. 

Either way it doesn't inspire confidence in the operation.

If it was the first option then I'd expect Venkys to be having serious concerns about this manager given he declined funds and has since delivered horrendous results. If it was the second option then they're probably quite satisfied having a bloke in place who will put up with their nonsense.

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Hand on heart I don't think many would say they want to see the Evans/Smallwood pairing in midfield unless absolutely necessary, so I do question Mowbray picking those two, particularly at home. I might understand it a bit more away from home, but then again I'd still prefer not to have both of them together. I wouldn't mind seeing Reed alongside Evans if Travis isn't considered reliable enough. Either way we really do need at least one box to box midfielder in the summer if we are going to keep playing the way we're playing. Unlikely we will be able to shift Evans or Smallwood due to their recent contract extensions.

I want to see Rodwell/Travis

[JHRover]

I worry that we're making our problems out to be down to individual ability and wrong personnel more than it is down to coaching and tactics.

Yes we need to strengthen across the board but I truly believe that our biggest issue is our team approach - coaching, tactics, fitness.

I believe this having watched us concede far too many goals for 3 seasons regardless of circumstances. We've done it against crap sides, League One teams, with a variety of players and formations. Nothing changes. Whilst we would like Lenihan back and another CB its worth pointing out we were conceding regularly with him and Downing here.

The trouble is that addressing tactics and coaching deficiencies isn't easy with a manager set in his ways. The easy way out will be to sign a couple and hope things change. I don't expect they will as I've seen nothing to make me think we will be solid under this manager.

I could accept a poor defence if we focused on being an attacking team and created and scored lots of goals but we certainly aren't one of those.

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Pedro said:

I want to see Rodwell/Travis

Thats a pairing I would like to see. We should just accept that Reed wont be coming here permanent now, why would he? So those two could be a formidable CM pairing for an adventurous manager...oh...wait...

[DeeCee]

5 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

I hope you are right about beating Wednesday. I work in Preston and I am not looking forward to tomorrow morning.

My next door neighbour is a Leeds fan but tbh he doesn't rub it in as much as I would if the roles were reversed ?

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

6 hours ago, 47er said:

That Brereton transfer has Balaji written all over it.Some agent in his ear is my guess.

Its totally contradictory to anything TM did before or since. Against his ethos if you like.

I really doubt he had any choice.

Yep...and Tony is doing the "company man" thing by being supportive of the policy in public...despite, the club's simultaneous refusal to address glaring deficiencies elsewhere in this mess of a squad.

If you are correct- and I have no reason to doubt it- then the club is still well and truly infected!

[Norbert Rassragr]

If there was someone I know is better, available and will put agents and Balaji in their place I'd get rid of Tony. Off the top of my head I can't think of such a manager. The coaches need a shake up too. 

[47er]

On 30/11/2018 at 06:10, jim mk2 said:

This is probably the biggest crisis of Mowbray's time at Rovers.

The team selection and tactics look increasingly questionable and worse, the players look disinterested and lacking fight and motivation.  In addition, the defence is leaking goals at an alarming rate (always a problem with Mowbray's teams) and the manager seems unable to stop the rot.

Mowbray has alot of goodwill among fans but that will soon evaporate if there are any more performances like the fiascos at Preston and Wigan.

 

Just trawling through this thread in an idle moment and came across this post from Jim written 30th November!

You would absolutely think this was written today! Even the reference to Preston and Wigan are current!

Of course we had that great run in January which we thought was propelling us towards the play-offs. In retrospect its probably saved our Championship status.

So, a very up and down season, let's hope for a bit of up!

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, 47er said:

Just trawling through this thread in an idle moment and came across this post from Jim written 30th November!

You would absolutely think this was written today! Even the reference to Preston and Wigan are current!

Of course we had that great run in January which we thought was propelling us towards the play-offs. In retrospect its probably saved our Championship status.

So, a very up and down season, let's hope for a bit of up!

Mowbray’s tenure so far is framed by ‘almosts’ and ‘if onlys’.

Almost stayed up. If only he hadn’t settled for so many draws.

Almost won the league. If only he’d picked a proper team to face Charlton.

Almost made a play-offs. If only he’d strengthened in January.

All of the ‘if onlys’ were based on decisions made by Mowbray rather than just bad luck.

[Songman]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Mowbray’s tenure so far is framed by ‘almosts’ and ‘if onlys’.

Almost stayed up. If only he hadn’t settled for so many draws.

Almost won the league. If only he’d picked a proper team to face Charlton.

Almost made a play-offs. If only he’d strengthened in January.

All of the ‘if onlys’ were based on decisions made by Mowbray rather than just bad luck.

That Charlton game was a disgrace by Mowbray in my opinion. A tremendous following (3000?) down in the capital, feel good factor massive, league there to be won, and he practically forfeited the game. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17490686.rovers-boss-tony-mowbray-discusses-whats-changed/

Tony Mowbray felt Rovers created an expectancy level with their January results - and admits the loss of Darragh Lenihan to injury has hit them hard.

Probably shouldn't have let Downing go then, eh Tony. 

[JHRover]

If we were a conventional football club with a transparent structure behind the scenes than I'd probably have lost patience in the manager by now, and would have no faith in him making the necessary changes come the summer. I'm not just unhappy with our results, but also our 'style' of play and clear lack of structure in the team.

As it happens I don't think we are a conventional football club, despite what some people seem eager to believe, and as such I am continuing to make allowances for Mowbray. I don't believe the structure in place is really appropriate for a successful football club and although recruitment has been poor I wonder if Mowbray can be entirely blamed for that. I don't believe for one second that he was sat on a pile of cash all summer and then suddenly made up his mind to go for Brereton as his top target. He'll have had to jump through hoops for that cash and only have been able to spend it on a select type of player and deal.

The remainder of this season is the time to assess and analyse. I don't accept we can or should just write off the next couple of months as going through the motions time and go into the summer in blind faith that something drastic will change. If this terrible run continues then Mowbray should be under immense pressure, particularly if we get any nearer to the drop zone. If we turn it around and go on to finish comfortable mid-table then we can put this down to a blip rather than something more serious e.g. him completely losing the plot as he has done previously in his career after a couple of years.

[MarkBRFC]

I think the Downing one is very good in hindsight, you have to remember that when we let him go, he was probably in TM's mind 5th choice centre half behind Mulgrew, Lenihan, Rodwell & Williams, and no doubt he wanted to get out and play football anyway, we had also just won 4 games in a row keeping 3 clean sheets on the bounce, I don't recall anyone slating the decision then.

After that Hull game nobody on here could foresee the collapse that we would endure afterwards, with Lenihan picking up a injury straight away.

I think it's a harsh one to beat TM with that.

[JacknOry]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

I think the Downing one is very good in hindsight, you have to remember that when we let him go, he was probably in TM's mind 5th choice centre half behind Mulgrew, Lenihan, Rodwell & Williams, and no doubt he wanted to get out and play football anyway, we had also just won 4 games in a row keeping 3 clean sheets on the bounce, I don't recall anyone slating the decision then.

After that Hull game nobody on here could foresee the collapse that we would endure afterwards, with Lenihan picking up a injury straight away.

I think it's a harsh one to beat TM with that.

Think you will find that quite a few slated the decision. Most were saying that if he were to go out, we would need to be bringing someone else in. We were expecting the Bauer deal to be done - it didnt happen.

[JHRover]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

I think the Downing one is very good in hindsight, you have to remember that when we let him go, he was probably in TM's mind 5th choice centre half behind Mulgrew, Lenihan, Rodwell & Williams, and no doubt he wanted to get out and play football anyway, we had also just won 4 games in a row keeping 3 clean sheets on the bounce, I don't recall anyone slating the decision then.

After that Hull game nobody on here could foresee the collapse that we would endure afterwards, with Lenihan picking up a injury straight away.

I think it's a harsh one to beat TM with that.

I think anyone would have expected either Mulgrew or Lenihan or both to pick up injury(s) at some stage between January and May if playing every week. Both are injury prone and always have been. Sad but true. Expecting them to play 3 times a week for half a Championship season and not miss any games is madness.

Rodwell in a similar boat - his entire career based around lengthy injury absences so expecting him to come in as back-up and play 90 minutes on a regular basis is again highly optimistic. Even then he isn't a defender.

Williams isn't a CB despite attempts to convert him into one.

I blame Mowbray for arriving at a situation where we've 4 options for CB and none of them are really CBs and 3 are extremely injury prone.

[MarkBRFC]

7 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Think you will find that quite a few slated the decision. Most were saying that if he were to go out, we would need to be bringing someone else in. We were expecting the Bauer deal to be done - it didnt happen.

Who was expecting the Bauer deal to be done? I don't recall any links with him in Jan, too many were fantasising over some weird pipe dream of signing Britt Assombolonga to worry about the defence.

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I think anyone would have expected either Mulgrew or Lenihan or both to pick up injury(s) at some stage between January and May if playing every week. Both are injury prone and always have been. Sad but true. Expecting them to play 3 times a week for half a Championship season and not miss any games is madness.

Rodwell in a similar boat - his entire career based around lengthy injury absences so expecting him to come in as back-up and play 90 minutes on a regular basis is again highly optimistic. Even then he isn't a defender.

Williams isn't a CB despite attempts to convert him into one.

I blame Mowbray for arriving at a situation where we've 4 options for CB and none of them are really CBs and 3 are extremely injury prone.

I complete agree that 3 of the 4 are not real centre halves, but they clearly are in TM's mind and you can tell that he thought that the four he had at his disposal would get him through to the end of the season, obviously now with Lenihans injury and Mulgrew possibly being out and our horrific run of form it looks a bad call, but I can at least see why he did let Downing go.

Edited March 11, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[tomphil]

He's a good bloke and very experienced manager especially compared to the previous dross here and all that has been the main factor in him doing a good job here rebuilding the infrastructure and bringing some sense to it all.

However on the pitch and in terms of recruitment he is absolutely bang on average and always has been I don't know why it's up for debate go and research all his former clubs. We took him from the scrap heap, the same one this club was heading for so it was a good fit at the time and he's proved himself better than being on there.

However where we go next is anybody's guess but a lot of it is down to the ownership and how they lay out next seasons target and budget. We can't just demand promotion but we could expect them to say right we want to be moving forwards and aiming as high as possible with the best side we can put together so lets give it a go.

like I've said half a dozen times I really can't see and major restructuring because A there won't be a budget big enough we need to stop dreaming of that it never becomes a reality under Venky's and B  He's tied most of this squad to the club for a bit longer so how do you get rid ?   You can't replace loads anyway because then next season becomes about 'bedding them in and blooding more youth' so midtable mediocrity or a struggle becomes an acceptable excuse again.

He needs to up his game though for sure but so do the players he's put so much faith in, if they get him sacked i'd sack half of them as well !

[JacknOry]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Who was expecting the Bauer deal to be done? I don't recall any links with him in Jan, too many were fantasising over some weird pipe dream of signing Britt Assombolonga to worry about the defence.

We had been linked to him since last season, he had rejected a new contract, so many assumed that having sent Downing out on loan, we might be picking Bauer up on the cheap considering his contract is up in the summer.

I mean, as JH pointed out - loaning out Downing and two younger CBs with an injury-prone Lenihan and Mulgrew as our only recognised CBs (both converted midfielders) and then Williams and Nyamble (both fullbacks) as our CB options is quite suicidal - so any sane thinking person would be expecting somebody else to come in.

[CD_93]

20 hours ago, Pedro said:

I want to see Rodwell/Travis

Agreed. Good interesting balance that, for me.

Not Mr. Popular anymore but I'd see Bennett back in there if needed, too. The man even says it's his best / favoured positions, so naturally we play him at Right Back.

Our "first team" is a shambles.

Edited March 11, 2019 by CD_93