Mowbray’s Future

[BlackburnEnd75]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Interesting and damming of Mulgrew. I raised this a while back. You can see he isn't good enough in a back 4. He's not athletic or brave enough. No doubting his quality on the ball. Arguably our best player on the ball and undoubtedly our best set piece taker. Its a tough one, maybe being in a back 3 would help. 

Like you say if we decide to go with a back 3 then maybe he's got a future in the centre. As part of a back four, if, as mowbrays says he does, play on the front foot then you need to be able to push up the pitch more. We'd miss his set pieces though. especially if Reed goes back in the summer.

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I wonder would he fancy a move to China or the states? 

You have to think it'll either be that or back to Scotland. Could imagine him going back to Celtic potentially.

[Mattyblue]

Play offs are back on! (We just need to win 9 on the bounce)

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17500415.boss-feels-bradley-dack-is-an-easy-target-for-criticism/

Not sure what’s in those biscuits of his.

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Play offs are back on! (We just need to win 9 on the bounce)

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17500415.boss-feels-bradley-dack-is-an-easy-target-for-criticism/

Not sure what’s in those biscuits of his.

[roversfan99]

Its important not to be too harsh on Mulgrew, I think injuries and his age may have caught up with him but hes been excellent overall for us and hes not always been a poor defender, obviously we was a league below but he was one of our key players last season and to an extent dragged Downing through half of the season. The stats also fall around a favourable run of fixtures in January that we got 3 successive clean sheets in against really poor attacks that im sure we may have still done had Mulgrew played.

Ultimately, he is another who was given a new contract far too early. Its not on the same page as the likes of Williams and Smallwood who simply are nowhere near good enough and giving them new deals as "rewards" is not the sign of a progressive, ambitious club. But there was no hurry baring in mind his age.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its important not to be too harsh on Mulgrew, I think injuries and his age may have caught up with him but hes been excellent overall for us and hes not always been a poor defender, obviously we was a league below but he was one of our key players last season and to an extent dragged Downing through half of the season. The stats also fall around a favourable run of fixtures in January that we got 3 successive clean sheets in against really poor attacks that im sure we may have still done had Mulgrew played.

Ultimately, he is another who was given a new contract far too early. Its not on the same page as the likes of Williams and Smallwood who simply are nowhere near good enough and giving them new deals as "rewards" is not the sign of a progressive, ambitious club. But there was no hurry baring in mind his age.

Dragged Downing through half a season? You could say it was the other way round. Realistically we just weren't under the same pressure defensively last season and that glossed over the fact we had practically the same defense that we were relegated with.

Have you actually watched Mulgrew defend this season? I think it's wide of the mark to assume we would still have gotten clean sheets in those games if he played. Lenihan and Rodwell looked good together. We played teams who were hardly world beaters when Mulgrew returned and didn't mange to keep clean sheets.  

Nobody is being too harsh on him, but what we see speaks for itself ,as do the stats. He ain't up to it defensively. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[BlackburnEnd75]

58 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dragged Downing through half a season? You could say it was the other way round. Realistically we just weren't under the same pressure defensively last season and that glossed over the fact we had practically the same defense that we were relegated with.

Have you actually watched Mulgrew defend this season? I think it's wide of the mark to assume we would still have gotten clean sheets in those games if he played. Lenihan and Rodwell looked good together. We played teams who were hardly world beaters when Mulgrew returned and didn't mange to keep clean sheets.  

Nobody is being too harsh on him, but what we see speaks for itself ,as do the stats. He ain't up to it defensively. 

To be fair to Mulgrew I thought defensively he was good very last year. He read the game so well was always one step ahead. Problem is I think Injury and age have caught him too much.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

To be fair to Mulgrew I thought defensively he was good very last year. He read the game so well was always one step ahead. Problem is I think Injury and age have caught him too much.

 I think the quality of opposition is the man reason. Players are faster, stronger have better first touches and are more clinical at this level compared to league 1. We conceded some soft goals in league 1 all the same, it's just that we had the firepower to counteract that. I include Mulgrew in the firepower. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[JacknOry]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 I think the quality of opposition is the man reason. Players are faster, stronger have better first touches and are more clinical at this level compared to league 1. We conceded some soft goals in league 1 all the same, it's just that we had the firepower to counteract that. I include Mulgrew in the firepower. 

Exactly this. There are some very good attacking players in this league - much more so than League 1. Have to agree that the stats against CM look quite bad and that perhaps he would be better as part of a back three. best set-piece taker we have by quite a distance though - so we would certainly miss that.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Dragged Downing through half a season? You could say it was the other way round. Realistically we just weren't under the same pressure defensively last season and that glossed over the fact we had practically the same defense that we were relegated with.

Have you actually watched Mulgrew defend this season? I think it's wide of the mark to assume we would still have gotten clean sheets in those games if he played. Lenihan and Rodwell looked good together. We played teams who were hardly world beaters when Mulgrew returned and didn't mange to keep clean sheets.  

Nobody is being too harsh on him, but what we see speaks for itself ,as do the stats. He ain't up to it defensively. 

,I would have to disagree on that, Mulgrew was very good last season and as @BlackburnEnd75 said his reading of the game made it look easy at times for him. Out of curiosity, how easily accessible was it to watch games last season? Is every game live on ifollow? 

Yes I have watched Mulgrew defend,  I have at no point suggesting that he has been good enough this season, but my comments about him being able to keep clean sheets in some of the games he missed is more suggesting that the defenders who did play had very easy games and were protected against very poor attackers. 

I think Mulgrews biggest issue has been that his injuries have been much more frequent, and age seems to have somewhat caught up to him. He also has struggled to put together an extended run without succumbing to injury.

Rodwell looked good on the ball but ultimately he had a run in the team against poor, toothless opposition, and I think Mulgrew could have looked easily comfortable, but ultimately Rodwell is not a capable Championship centre back either as he has proved in games with any difficulty posed to him.

I dont think people are being harsh on him this season, although suggestions that Magloire should be over him in the pecking order would be in my opinion incredibly premature. I am saying he has been a good defender for us overall in his time at the club. I am of the opinion that we need 4 defenders in the summer.

[Stuart]

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I accidently clicked onto that site a while back. Four or five old blokes agreeing with each other. Sad really.

Not if you are them.

Think of it like a small group of blokes in the exclusive snug at the back of the pub where they can happily put the world to rights without the rest of us gawping.

Happy as ?? ? ? ? ?

[Oldgregg86]

33 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Not if you are them.

Think of it like a small group of blokes in the exclusive snug at the back of the pub where they can happily put the world to rights without the rest of us gawping.

Happy as ?? ? ? ? ?

It's good for them and if there happy with it but my God it's a dull, boring read with absolutely no incite into anything

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It's good for them and if there happy with it but my God it's a dull, boring read with absolutely no incite into anything

Nice that they are getting along well.

[47er]

7 hours ago, DE. said:

Mulgrew as part of a back two just isn't working, unfortunately. It's difficult because when he's not in the team we do lose a lot of ability when it comes to set pieces, but is it worth the defensive issues that him being on the pitch causes? I'd argue at this point that no, it isn't. The vast majority of successful teams build from the back, and as a CB I just don't think Mulgrew can be a part of that anymore. It's a shame and we've gotten a lot from him - more than I thought we would when we signed him - but at the end of the season it might be time to say thank you and put those wages to better use.

Might be time for Wharton?

[tomphil]

Mulgrew is a quality footballer he was a cut above last season and was decent early this season but went completely off the boil and more resembles the guy who struggled with the intensity of this league in his first season here after he swapped it for the biggest club in the pub league up there.

Like the rest of them though they don't really compliment each other, have too many changes to contend with forced and unforced and don't have a solid experienced keeper behind them who isn't afraid to dish out instructions. Lack of basic communication, organization and leadership on the pitch is shocking.

Present day watering down of the game though they don't want to upset each other and managers are terrified of upsetting them.

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Might be time for Wharton?

This reminds me of the O'Connell situation....

[blueboy3333]

10 hours ago, DE. said:

Mulgrew as part of a back two just isn't working, unfortunately. It's difficult because when he's not in the team we do lose a lot of ability when it comes to set pieces, but is it worth the defensive issues that him being on the pitch causes? I'd argue at this point that no, it isn't. The vast majority of successful teams build from the back, and as a CB I just don't think Mulgrew can be a part of that anymore. It's a shame and we've gotten a lot from him - more than I thought we would when we signed him - but at the end of the season it might be time to say thank you and put those wages to better use.

Trouble for Mowbray is that Mulgrew has contributed to about 15 goals from an attacking perspective. Difficult to replace in a team not known for its attacking prowess. It would be interesting to know how many points he's won us against versus how many he's lost. 

[DE.]

8 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Trouble for Mowbray is that Mulgrew has contributed to about 15 goals from an attacking perspective. Difficult to replace in a team not known for its attacking prowess. It would be interesting to know how many points he's won us against versus how many he's lost. 

Well as far as his league goals for this season are concerned...

Reading 2-2 Rovers - got us a point here through scoring two pens. Obviously credit has to be given to McShane for giving us the chance to do so, but still, a goal's a goal. 

Bristol City 4-1 - safe to say his goal here didn't mean much, would have preferred better defending

Swansea 3-1 Rovers - as above

Boro 1-1 Rovers - contrived to draw after Mulgrew put us ahead, despite Boro being down to ten for a major chunk of the match

Leeds 3-2 Rovers - Mulgrew scored both but considering he was part of the defence who conceded two in the last two minutes, again, would have preferred he did his job defensively

Rovers 2-1 WBA - scored the opener

Birmingham 2-2 Rovers - another game we managed to draw after being 2-1 up, Mulgrew scored our equaliser in the 52nd minute

Rotherham 3-2 Rovers - scored a worthless 93rd minute penalty

So overall Mulgrew's goals have helped earn us 5 combined points, although in two of those games we were leading before the customary defensive collapse. None of his goals this season have been decisive winners. Bradley Dack is the MVP in this regard, with Graham not far behind. 

[JHRover]

The concern for me is the reliance on Mulgrew for scoring goals. Without his set piece brilliance we'd be struggling. I'm not really on about penalties (although we've had quite a few this season and he's scored them all from memory) as penalty takers can be replaced. It's the free kicks and corners that have been exceptional.

The bigger concern is how few goals we've had from midfield this season. Smallwood, Evans, Rothwell, Bennett, Conway - how many goals? A couple for Harrison Reed. Nowhere near enough from a midfield however you want to dress it up.

[blueboy3333]

9 minutes ago, DE. said:

Well as far as his league goals for this season are concerned...

Reading 2-2 Rovers - got us a point here through scoring two pens. Obviously credit has to be given to McShane for giving us the chance to do so, but still, a goal's a goal. 

Bristol City 4-1 - safe to say his goal here didn't mean much, would have preferred better defending

Swansea 3-1 Rovers - as above

Boro 1-1 Rovers - contrived to draw after Mulgrew put us ahead, despite Boro being down to ten for a major chunk of the match

Leeds 3-2 Rovers - Mulgrew scored both but considering he was part of the defence who conceded two in the last two minutes, again, would have preferred he did his job defensively

Rovers 2-1 WBA - scored the opener

Birmingham 2-2 Rovers - another game we managed to draw after being 2-1 up, Mulgrew scored our equaliser in the 52nd minute

Rotherham 3-2 Rovers - scored a worthless 93rd minute penalty

So overall Mulgrew's goals have helped earn us 5 combined points, although in two of those games we were leading before the customary defensive collapse. None of his goals this season have been decisive winners. Bradley Dack is the MVP in this regard, with Graham not far behind. 

You've also got to include the assists. Nodody else is capable of delivering dead balls like him. I'm not defending him as I think he's a poor defender but you can't just dismiss his goals and assists. They will be hard to replace. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by blueboy3333

[DE.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You've also got to include the assists. Nodody else is capable of delivering dead balls like him. I'm not defending him as I think he's a poor defender but you can't just dismiss his goals and assists. They will be hard to replace. 

I don't think he has any?

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/19556/Show/Charlie-Mulgrew

[blueboy3333]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't think he has any?

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/19556/Show/Charlie-Mulgrew

Surprising considering we've got about 9 goals from set pieces. 

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Surprising considering we've got about 9 goals from set pieces. 

Doesn't seem like any have come from Mulgrew assisting (although I'm also interested to know if that stat is legit or whether the website has incorrect info). If so then it would suggest Mulgrew is good at hitting the goal from set pieces but not so much creating assists for team mates to score. Obviously we also have to take into account how poor our players not named Graham, Dack and Mulgrew are at scoring goals, too. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

59 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The concern for me is the reliance on Mulgrew for scoring goals. Without his set piece brilliance we'd be struggling. I'm not really on about penalties (although we've had quite a few this season and he's scored them all from memory) as penalty takers can be replaced. It's the free kicks and corners that have been exceptional.

The bigger concern is how few goals we've had from midfield this season. Smallwood, Evans, Rothwell, Bennett, Conway - how many goals? A couple for Harrison Reed. Nowhere near enough from a midfield however you want to dress it up.

That's been going on a long while. Dunny was the last central midfield player you could rely on for goals.

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's been going on a long while. Dunny was the last central midfield player you could rely on for goals.

You would think that purely by law of averages sooner or later in a season people like Smallwood and Evans would grab a couple of goals. Even if it's off their backside from a corner or a ridiculous deflection. If you're one of XI on the pitch 46 games a season I would expect every player bar the GK to score at some stage or other, even if it is just once by fluke. That we've numerous midfielders, some who claim to be attack minded (Bennett, Rothwell) and yet all have a big 0 next to them in March suggests a big problem for me.

As you say, it has been going on for a long time now. When we go back to the Lowe/Williamson Axis with about 3 goals between them in 5 years.