Mowbray’s Future

[Stuart]

Why has this thread been merged???

The whole point was to allow a new poll.

Fuck’s sake!

[47er]

41 minutes ago, Miker said:

Which individuals has he blamed?

Didn’t he only recently give an interview admitting his mistake that he wanted to give last season’s team a chance and that now he feels he should have strengthened in January? 

For God's sake, those quotes just prove how clueless he's become! We on this MB knew that and not with hindsight either.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

It will be a big summer for Mowbray and much will depend on the budget he is given.  There are a number who helped us out of League One who now need to move on and be replaced with more experienced players to add to our youngsters.  Personally, I still think the manager deserves the opportunity to rebuild in the summer.  His brief this season was to make sure we retained our place in the Championship - which I'm sure we will. 

I don't think the crowd have turned on the manager and seem prepared to give him more time than some on here.  Ultimately, it will be the owners who, as always, will make the decision about when and if to replace him.

This i'd agree with I think sacking him now would be a disaster unless they got in immediately someone of name who got the players respect straight away and who had the remit to build a promotion challenging squad starting in the summer.

Anything less would be a nightmare as we can see some of these aren't consistent enough in this league, there's a lot of youngsters and some experienced one's are rubber dingy men we saw that last time. I'd even suggest one or two are hiding now on and off the pitch because they feel there's nothing to play for. Some would really throw the towel in if he left I reckon.

He deserves to see the season out at least but I haven't got great belief in him building a much better squad because he never seems to have a real on pitch or recruitment plan in place or at the right one anyway this season . Far too much meddling and knee jerk reactions but that's how he manages and always has its served him good and bad he's a mixed bag manager but overall far from a bad one.

Of more interest to me is what backing will be available and i'm convinced not much the money men are running a tight ship now. The budget might be about the same so it'll be whatever headroom is left in that after wages and outgoings or whatever he can make himself from moving people out/off the wage bill which given his propensity for favs and taking into account the contracts he's handed out won't be much.

Down to the whim of Mr B & family and his investment partners if anything else gets tipped up but Christ knows what it'll be spent on or who will actually be bringing them in.

 

[blueboy3333]

Chris Wilder extolling the virtues of good old fashioned defending after the Leeds game. Says his defenders want to defend. Think that's 7 clean sheets in a row.

We need a manager like him. 

[DE.]

58 minutes ago, Don Said said:

I’d like to shake his hand, thank him for what he’s done over the last 2 years and replace him with somebody who can keep us going in an upward trajectory.

The key reason for me wanting to replace is the fact that I don’t trust Mowbray to oversee the recruitment required this summer. For me, he’s failed in the last two windows. He’s spent good money in the wrong areas, totally ignoring the fact that we needed to upgrade in certain positions, and the fact we needed to bring in leaders.

Secondly, the last couple of months have been really worrying. Without a doubt we’re in relegation form. We simply can’t afford to get relegated next season. Without a change I fear we’re sleepwalking in to a relegation battle next year.

Third, we don’t have an identity. Look at Leeds, Norwich, Sheff U, Preston, Weds and so on. You know exactly what you’re going to get and it works. We’re inconsistent. Too many formation changes, too many different starting line ups. It doesn’t work. That’s something we urgently need to address.

I’d like a manager with balls, able to bring in the right players, and able organise a team whether it be gritty grind it out football, or more of an expansive game - not bothered as long as it’s consistent and it works.

All of this said - I’d only get rid if that sort of manager was lined up. Off the top of my head there’s a few out of a job right now that could fit. Hughes, Moyes, Allardyce, Karanka would likely take the solid organised job approach, my preference. Wagner, Jokanovic if we went down the more expansive route or whatever it needs to be called. They’re not conclusive lists by any means. And I’m not saying we’d necessarily be able to attract all of them, before people point out Allardyce wouldn’t work for Venky’s etc. Just throwing the type out there. IF we could bring one of those or similar in, i’d definitely go for it.

If we couldn’t find that type, I’d (slightly reluctantly) rather back Mowbray in the summer for a chance to get it right, rather than switching for somebody of less credibility than the type of names mentioned.

Forget sentiment. Football is incredibly cut throat and we need to do best by the club.

Spot on. Over two and a half years and we still have no identity when it comes to how we play football whatsoever. Almost every time we play our supposedly target formation with three at the back we look absolutely dreadful. Rather than stick with it we revert to a sludgy 4-2-3-1 which has worked intermittently but only when Dack or Graham has a stormer. Otherwise we're as bad playing 4-2-3-1 as we are 5-3-2 or whatever it is the three at the back is supposed to be. 

[TugaysMarlboro]

9 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Chris Wilder extolling the virtues of good old fashioned defending after the Leeds game. Says his defenders want to defend. Think that's 7 clean sheets in a row.

We need a manager like him. 

Which makes it all the more confusing why we're tripe at the back, considering Mowbrays very decent career as a centre half. That back line of ours too often look like a bunch of strangers rangled off the street.

[Darwen Rover 007]

As much as I am seriously worried about.. 

a) Our results 

b) Tony's over loyalty for some players and unfairness on others - Rothwell - today's criticism is criminal 

c) the fact we dont have a decent scouting network - nothing in Europe - again absolutely criminal 

I would give him till next season and see how he is progressing as we approach the Jan 20 transfer window.. if he chops the guys who are clearly not up to this league and brings in some quality.. we have some decent youngsters.. we could be play off or above material 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Darwen Rover 007
Missed some bits off

[bazza]

Everyone forgets the elephant in the room. Venkys.  We are no-where near a normal run football club with these (still) clueless owners.  I hate to think who would replace Tony if he were to leave us.

Maybe it's better the devil you know. Don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

[tomphil]

It's all got to be built on the platform of a solid settled defence with adequate back up otherwise whatever formations and tactics are applied will keep coming undone as we've seen this season.

If not we might as well flog Dack and go 442 with the two sitting mids and draw every week ala Bowyer then sit safely in midtable and allow young players time to grow by chucking the odd square peg in a round hole but keeping everything rigid and basically the same every week instead of multiple changes to every side and multi formation alterations every ten mins.  Barmy stuff to watch it really is we can't even buy a draw these days which brings me back to defence...

Can he or even will he do that and can they or will they back him to get players to do that ?    I'm not convinced at all.

[RevidgeBlue]

Have made my position very clear on this over the months, our demise is no surprise whatsoever to me and I think he needs to go now.

This isn't  a situation that has just cropped up, it's a complete mess 9 months in the making since TM refused to strengthen the starting eleven in the summer and again to a lesser extent in January.

I really struggle with Parson's view that TM  "deserves" the chance to bring players in in the summer. He doesn't "deserve" anything, it's due to his negligence that we find ourselves in the situation whereby we're going to have to try and rebuild almost the entire starting eleven in summer whilst being hampered by the fact that a lot of deadwood was rewarded for past performance by being awarded new contracts.

Maybe if you'd been relegated and had a complete clear out and come back up with a young hungry side you could give them a chance to see if they they could do it at the higher level. It seems obvious to me that you can't do that when the core of the players you're relying on are either past their best, or got you relegated in the first place, or both.

And I hope no-one argues he hasn't been backed, he's wasted or alternatively allowed £7m to be spent on Brereton who he refuses to play and wasted loan fees on the likes of Rothwell and Palmer (both decent players imo) who he presumably won't or wouldnt play because he doesnt want to upset the old guard.

[blueboy3333]

32 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Have made my position very clear on this over the months, our demise is no surprise whatsoever to me and I think he needs to go now.

This isn't  a situation that has just cropped up, it's a complete mess 9 months in the making since TM refused to strengthen the starting eleven in the summer and again to a lesser extent in January.

I really struggle with Parson's view that TM  "deserves" the chance to bring players in in the summer. He doesn't "deserve" anything, it's due to his negligence that we find ourselves in the situation whereby we're going to have to try and rebuild almost the entire starting eleven in summer whilst being hampered by the fact that a lot of deadwood was rewarded for past performance by being awarded new contracts.

Maybe if you'd been relegated and had a complete clear out and come back up with a young hungry side you could give them a chance to see if they they could do it at the higher level. It seems obvious to me that you can't do that when the core of the players you're relying on are either past their best, or got you relegated in the first place, or both.

And I hope no-one argues he hasn't been backed, he's wasted or alternatively allowed £7m to be spent on Brereton who he refuses to play and wasted loan fees on the likes of Rothwell and Palmer (both decent players imo) who he presumably won't or wouldnt play because he doesnt want to upset the old guard.

We own Rothwell.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

It will be a big summer for Mowbray and much will depend on the budget he is given.  There are a number who helped us out of League One who now need to move on and be replaced with more experienced players to add to our youngsters.  Personally, I still think the manager deserves the opportunity to rebuild in the summer.  His brief this season was to make sure we retained our place in the Championship - which I'm sure we will. 

I don't think the crowd have turned on the manager and seem prepared to give him more time than some on here.  Ultimately, it will be the owners who, as always, will make the decision about when and if to replace him.

Sorry Parsonblue but I think Mowbray deserves feck all.

He's been well rewarded.

He took us down (and even he admitted in Blues about 3 weeks ago he was brought in to keep us up!), brought us out of a p$ss poor league behind Wigan and we are now in free fall.

As far as I can see, he can't get us physically or mentally fit, he can't set-up a team, his tactics in the main are hopeless and go out the window after 15 minutes and his player trading is very, very poor.  £7m+ for an 'amazing talent' who remains, in the main , rooted to the bench.

Our patience has run out Mowbray, you've had two years at it and I would question if we are any better off as a football team than we were under C o y l e.

Taxi is waiting.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Mercer

[roversfan99]

38 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Sorry Parsonblue but I think Mowbray deserves feck all.

He's been well rewarded.

He took us down (and even he admitted in Blues about 3 weeks ago he was brought in to keep us up!), brought us out of a p$ss poor league behind Wigan and we are now in free fall.

As far as I can see, he can't get us physically or mentally fit, he can't set-up a team, his tactics in the main are hopeless and go out the window after 15 minutes and his player trading is very, very poor.  £7m+ for an 'amazing talent' who remains, in the main , rooted to the bench.

Our patience has run out Mowbray, you've had two years at it and I would question if we are any better off as a football team than we were under C o y l e.

Taxi is waiting.

You make some decent points. Unfortunately they will be totally missed with you always ending with your provocative and totally unfair comparisons with Coyle. Coyle left as we were 23rd in the league. End of. 

You cant be totally dismissive of getting out of League 1. Yes its a poor league but you have to earn promotion like any other league.

[Mr. E]

2 hours ago, bazza said:

Everyone forgets the elephant in the room. Venkys.  We are no-where near a normal run football club with these (still) clueless owners.  I hate to think who would replace Tony if he were to leave us.

Maybe it's better the devil you know. Don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

Unfortunately this is also true. We have almost been living in fantasy land the last 1-2 years or so because Venkys haven't done something outrageously stupid, which was the norm until then. TM, as much as all trust is departing from him, is God-send compared to what we had before under Venkys and could very possibly come after.

If we were a normal club we should have the freedom to pick a better manager. But there has to be genuine terror at any decision Venkys could take post-TM. We're in a truly shit, shit, shit position.

[scotchrover]

Mowbray’s job was to keep us up this year, nothing more, nothing less. He’s done that: Should he address the defensive situation in summer (and give Derek Williams to a club in League 1), we’ll progress. If he doesn’t, he be out of a job, because we’ll be in a relegation battle. 

[deryck guyler's spoon]

I'm really sorry about the way things have gone. For me Tony Mowbray has been such a force for good at the club but our form since December (excluding a brief pick up) has been as alarming as it is unacceptable. Our defensive frailty and TM's seeming inability to address it makes me very concerned about next season. I don't want the players getting off scot free though. So many platitudes about what a great coach and guy the boss is but those platitudes evaporate once some of them cross the touchline. If they are even vaguely aware of our owners previous they'll know that they are unpredictable and liable to pull the trigger on Mowbray at the next concession of 3/4/5 away goals.

If TM survives to the start of next term and we get an iffy start it's doubtful he'll survive the October sacking season. What the **** do we do then? 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by deryck guyler's spoon

[Bbrovers2288]

If anyone still needs any convincing please google Tony Mowbray sacked and read about all the accounts from past clubs and players. 

A few that stick out. 

Coventry- after a run of 10 games mowbray walked saying he couldn’t turn it around but blamed himself for not strengthening the defence and getting the 6’4 hardman that they needed. 

Celtic- considered the worst manager they have ever had with the worst win %, concluding with a 4-0 defeat to st Mirren 

scott brown- baffled by his tactics, felt he was the best midfielder in the club but mowbray was playing him at left back and he felt he was forcing him out the club 

Scott McDonald- baffled by tactics and anything he did try wouldn’t work so he would revert to type but type didn’t work either. Wouldn’t play best team and was too loyal to some that didn’t deserve it.

thats from a 10 minute google search, so who is telling me that it’s all going to turn round and lessons have been learned?! 

Nah, time to go 

[blueboy3333]

What really sticks in the craw about Mowbray is his dishonesty. He's trying to claim we're only struggling defensively because all our CB's are injured. 

How does he explain the 5 conceded at Brentford, the 4 at PNE and the 3 at Wigan etc? 

 

 

[DeeCee]

22 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

If anyone still needs any convincing please google Tony Mowbray sacked and read about all the accounts from past clubs and players. 

A few that stick out. 

Coventry- after a run of 10 games mowbray walked saying he couldn’t turn it around but blamed himself for not strengthening the defence and getting the 6’4 hardman that they needed. 

Celtic- considered the worst manager they have ever had with the worst win %, concluding with a 4-0 defeat to st Mirren 

scott brown- baffled by his tactics, felt he was the best midfielder in the club but mowbray was playing him at left back and he felt he was forcing him out the club 

Scott McDonald- baffled by tactics and anything he did try wouldn’t work so he would revert to type but type didn’t work either. Wouldn’t play best team and was too loyal to some that didn’t deserve it.

thats from a 10 minute google search, so who is telling me that it’s all going to turn round and lessons have been learned?! 

Nah, time to go 

He's certainly got form for misplaced loyalty, square pegs and tactical ineptness ?

[The Axe]

9 hours ago, RV Blue said:

Thanks for that Parson, great input.

Venky's might pull the trigger but not before someone else loads the gun. Allardyce went on Anderson's recommendation, Kean, Berg and Appleton on Shebby's. Bowyer was fingered by Suhail Pasha who got burned by the Lambert appointment and has become more cautious. Hence the delay in getting rid of Coyle even when goaded to it by Senior. Its going to take a long run of bad results before Pasha sticks his neck out again.

[Torgeir]

4 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

What really sticks in the craw about Mowbray is his dishonesty. He's trying to claim we're only struggling defensively because all our CB's are injured. 

How does he explain the 5 conceded at Brentford, the 4 at PNE and the 3 at Wigan etc? 

 

 

I think what many fans appreciate is actually Mowbray's honesty, he usually hits the nail on the head in his post match interviews but I agree that's a poor statement coming from him. His failure to turn things around is becoming a concern. Why was Downing allowed to leave when we were chasing the play-offs? It's not like Magloire is an improvement right now. 

4 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

If anyone still needs any convincing please google Tony Mowbray sacked and read about all the accounts from past clubs and players. 

A few that stick out. 

Coventry- after a run of 10 games mowbray walked saying he couldn’t turn it around but blamed himself for not strengthening the defence and getting the 6’4 hardman that they needed. 

Celtic- considered the worst manager they have ever had with the worst win %, concluding with a 4-0 defeat to st Mirren 

scott brown- baffled by his tactics, felt he was the best midfielder in the club but mowbray was playing him at left back and he felt he was forcing him out the club 

Scott McDonald- baffled by tactics and anything he did try wouldn’t work so he would revert to type but type didn’t work either. Wouldn’t play best team and was too loyal to some that didn’t deserve it.

thats from a 10 minute google search, so who is telling me that it’s all going to turn round and lessons have been learned?! 

Nah, time to go 

Anything Scott Brown says from now on I'll take with a pinch of salt. Best midfielder in the club ?

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

I think what many fans appreciate is actually Mowbray's honesty, he usually hits the nail on the head in his post match interviews but I agree that's a poor statement coming from him. His failure to turn things around is becoming a concern. Why was Downing allowed to leave when we were chasing the play-offs? It's not like Magloire is an improvement right now. 

Anything Scott Brown says from now on I'll take with a pinch of salt. Best midfielder in the club ?

That makes the situation even more galling. So he knows what is wrong but he hasn't (or can't) done anything to fix it. That is probably the best definition of poor management.

I think he is all over the place with his interviews and makes himself look silly at times.

[Stuart]

26 minutes ago, The Axe said:

Venky's might pull the trigger but not before someone else loads the gun. Allardyce went on Anderson's recommendation, Kean, Berg and Appleton on Shebby's. Bowyer was fingered by Suhail Pasha who got burned by the Lambert appointment and has become more cautious. Hence the delay in getting rid of Coyle even when goaded to it by Senior. Its going to take a long run of bad results before Pasha sticks his neck out again.

What constitutes ‘long’?

[tomphil]

24 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

We are at 10 defeats in 16 now.

And only now are we in what might be called an injury crisis where you might expect things like yesterday also we've just come off the back of beating Wigan 3 nil.

There's definitely been a foot in lost the plot territory in that lot.

[blueboy3333]

38 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

I think what many fans appreciate is actually Mowbray's honesty, he usually hits the nail on the head in his post match interviews but I agree that's a poor statement coming from him. His failure to turn things around is becoming a concern. Why was Downing allowed to leave when we were chasing the play-offs? It's not like Magloire is an improvement right now. 

Anything Scott Brown says from now on I'll take with a pinch of salt. Best midfielder in the club ?

I'd disagree about his 'honesty'. What he actually does in his post match interviews is blame someone else.