Mowbray’s Future

[tomphil]

He's been busy on twitter banging on about we'll sell half the squad, they aren't on big wages and we'll bring in 6-8 better ones to replace them, Mowbrays got this...?

Never ever ever grasp it.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The Hughes now is miles away from the Hughes we had. 

I’d take Hughes v2019 over Mowbray in a heartbeat.

His gravitas would go a long way with Championship players.

[Mattyblue]

Hughes lasted five years at Stoke, 2013 to 2018.

Three 9th placed finishes and then  13th. Went awry in his last season, but then many managers do have a shelf-life.

Unfairly maligned in my opinion.

[tomphil]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Hughes lasted five years at Stoke, 2013 to 2018.

Three 9th placed finishes and then  13th. Went awry in his last season, but then many managers do have a shelf-life.

Unfairly maligned in my opinion.

Does ok keeping stable Prem clubs stable but flounders at the more ambitious ones it seems but I think here he could build a team again in the mould of the last one on modest funds.  Of course it would be a shadow of his side here last time but he brings everything that's missing at the moment like the tactics of a solid settled side with some physical presence both ends and some graft in the middle dotted about with a bit of pace and quality who can go toe to toe and grind out results and also play a bit when he lets them off the leash.

Players would be coached for and signed for specific jobs within the team although not sure how he'd cope with an Indian middle man maybe dumping players on him he didn't want and telling him others were un-dropable - hypothetically of course.

[Ewood Ace]

21 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The Hughes now is miles away from the Hughes we had. 

Still miles ahead of Mowbray though.

[rog of the rovers]

Statto Alert

This recent run has made for some interesting reading

*At Championship Level

Lambert

P 30 W 10 D 8 L 12 Pts 38

League Win Percentage 33.3%

Points per game 1.27

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 58

Mowbray 

P 53 W 17 D 17 L 18 Pts 68

League Win Percentage 32.1%

Points per game 1.28

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 59

 

58/59 Points usually good for 14th - 16th Place (Based on last 5 seasons)

Edited March 19, 2019 by rog of the rovers

[RevidgeBlue]

35 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

Statto Alert

This recent run has made for some interesting reading

*At Championship Level

Lambert

P 30 W 10 D 8 L 12 Pts 38

League Win Percentage 33.3%

Points per game 1.27

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 58

Mowbray 

P 53 W 17 D 17 L 18 Pts 68

League Win Percentage 32.1%

Points per game 1.28

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 59

 

58/59 Points usually good for 14th - 16th Place (Based on last 5 seasons)

The only thing to be drawn from that is that neither are much cop although I thought Lambert was even worse than the bare stats suggest. He got a reaction out of the players when he first came in and managed eleven points from his first five games before they appeared to fall out with him. Bizarrely, he also got two wins from the final two games after he announced he would be walking out. Perhaps the players were glad to see the back of him and/or knew he wouldn't be staying, or alternatively felt guilty they hadn't been pulling it out for him.

Either way, inbetween it was 21 points from 23 games and beyond dire.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Just now, rog of the rovers said:

Statto Alert

This recent run has made for some interesting reading

*At Championship Level

Lambert

P 30 W 10 D 8 L 12 Pts 38

League Win Percentage 33.3%

Points per game 1.27

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 58

Mowbray 

P 53 W 17 D 17 L 18 Pts 68

League Win Percentage 32.1%

Points per game 1.28

xPts (Expected Points over a Season) 59

 

58/59 Points usually good for 14th - 16th Place (Based on last 5 seasons)

Sounds about right, i'd have put them at a similar level even before seeing the stat comparison.  I'd argue that Lambert is a little hard done by on this as he didn't have as many transfer windows as Mowbray has to shape his own squad.

In any case we're not going any further under TM, I've made my peace with that. And perhaps he is better than any other clown Venkys could choose to replace him with. 

Apathy; a symptom of the Venky ownership. 

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

The only thing to be drawn from that is that neither are much cop although I thought Lambert was even worse than the bare stats suggest. He got a reaction out of the players when he first came in and managed eleven points from his first five games before they appeared to fall out with him. Bizarrely, he also got two wins from the final two games after he announced he would be walking out. Perhaps the players were glad to see the back of him and/or knew he wouldn't be staying, or alternatively felt guilty they hadn't been pulling it out for him.

Either way, inbetween it was 21 points from 23 games and beyond dire.

Those 2 wins at the end were dead rubbers against Rotherham away (who had pulled off the great escape under Warnock) and Reading at home (going nowhere).

The reality is that Lambert and Mowbray are very similar in terms of their CVs. People tend to like Mowbray more because he dragged us out of League One and comes across better in his interviews in terms of being a more friendly persona and more accessible to fans. The difference of course being that Lambert at the time had the ability to walk out of here when he was mucked around by the owners and get another Championship job, whereas Mowbray was in last chance career saloon when he came here, so is less able to chuck his toys out of the pram when faced with issues with the owners.

I don't think Mowbray has done anything Lambert couldn't have done if he had been here and don't think we would have been relegated had Lambert been here for a full season instead of Coyle/Mowbray.

Even Lambert appears to have begun to stop the rot at Ipswich with some impressive draws recently. Being hard to beat is the cornerstone of any side going anywhere which is why I'm so disappointed at the ease with which we concede and are swept aside by poor teams.

Edited March 19, 2019 by JHRover

[Dreams of 1995]

I wonder what the goals scored vs conceded between Lambert & Mowbray is. 

Always feel we will score under Mowbray but concede 3 more. Under Lambert you felt as though a draw was the expectation every game.

[Boz]

I think TM has some decisions to make at the end of this season, which he might very well be mulling over presently, after the couple of months we've just had.

He's done a fine job in developing a team spirit and togetherness, alongside recovering the position with some of the fan base; honesty, trustworthiness, plain speaking. Especially so after the craziness which went before, with owners, agents, management both footballing and also non footballing staff, players and god knows who else.  So for his achievements in this and helping to bring even a modicum of any feel good back, then fair play to him.  

He inherited an underachieving supposed Championship squad, brought some respect and players playing for the badge, who got us promotion from League 1. As a man manager he's done well, he got the older experienced players on board who bought into his thinking. 

It's the coaching though that worries me and to be frank did so last season to. Fitness, goalkeeping, 1st team coaches and even the scouting network.  Plus also a further slight concern involves one thing that he has inherited and which in theory he should have going in his favour, namely a successful academy, churning out players capable of stepping up to the level we are currently, Championship.  Is he fully on board with the youngsters, happy to blood them and give them the necessary next stepping stone, or does he revert to the safety of playing 'old heads'? 

Anyway, he should by now have realised that his reliance upon some of his squad, which are obviously not up to the Championship, need moving on. This might very well impact on the team spirit, with perhaps some of these players being strong personalities within the dressing room. This could be quite challenging for him, especially finding their replacements with the requisite experience and attitudes from elsewhere who can contribute to progressing the 1st team.  The prospect and thought of this task may well at TMs point in his life and career, be too much and daunting.

My suggestion, would be to definitely keep him involved at the club in some capacity, be it a Director of Football role or whatever, he warrants some recognition of his achievements. However I'd be more inclined to promote and appoint Damien Johnson into the position of First Team Coach/Manager, with TM still being around to lean on. Hopefully a younger more vibrant coach with new ideas might be the way forward?  My only hesitation would be as previously with Bowyer as to whether academy or development coaches can alter their mindset, away from the longer term (2 years plus), to more short term success and results. 

Just a few musings. ?

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Boz

[Lie_still_Rover]

I've read a few posts talking about Mowbrays comments re: Rothwell but can't find anything.. What's he supposed to have said about him? I thought Rothwell was one of our better players. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Lie_still_Rover said:

I've read a few posts talking about Mowbrays comments re: Rothwell but can't find anything.. What's he supposed to have said about him? I thought Rothwell was one of our better players. 

PerthBlue posted the interview with Mowbray in the Sheff W match thread. It's a link to Radio Lancs.

[Lie_still_Rover]

OK, I'll have a listen. Could you summarise? 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Lie_still_Rover said:

OK, I'll have a listen. Could you summarise? 

'Rothwell is like a little boy but he's talented'

[Lie_still_Rover]

But derogatory that..  He worked his arse off.. Great player. He's going to be another talented player like Rochina, King were.. Slip through the net and go onto bigger and better things.. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17512700.rovers-boss-mowbray-on-the-changes-that-need-to-be-made/

TM has lost it for me;

"I know where the changes need to be made and where the strengthening needs to be,” the boss said.

That’s ultimately where we need to strengthen when we get the chance.”

You had the chance in January, why couldn't you see then where the strengthening needed to be? Despite our decent run we were still minus in the goal difference column, was this not a concern for you? Surely you've worked with this squad for long enough to see where the deficiencies were and had the chance to strengthen and didn't, frankly it's a bit late to be moaning about it now. 

 

“My frustration is with the experienced players out there, not the likes of Tyler Magloire who I thought was really good again.

“He stuck to his job, a young guy, who needs some guidance on the pitch I would suggest and there were some more experienced players that needed to step up and that didn’t happen.”

Blaming the players is always a classic sign of a man under pressure. Tony, you either bought these 'experienced' players and/or inherited them and decided they were good enough to do a job when you didn't strengthen in January, how can this situation  therefore not fall on you? 

 

“It’s been difficult for us, because Charlie’s based his game around his technique, whereas Jack is naturally a midfielder, but is at the back for us, due to his height.

“At this stage, Lenihan is the only person who wants to deal with the ball and my job in the summer is to find some players who also want to head the ball out."

So you know we have players playing out of position and you STILL didn't strengthen there in January or the summer before that. Why do you think it's acceptable to then blame these players for this appalling run we are on and not yourself? You're openly admitting they are playing out of position for f8ck sake. 

He's just f7cking irritating me now. Time to move upstairs and give Johnson a go. 

[yellowsubmarine]

Mark Hughes' Rovers from 2004-08 was easily my personal favourite Rovers era. Frequent semi-finals, top half finishes, beating and frightening big teams so badly they called us dirty, which they werent wrong - we were bottom of the disciplinary table for a few years. Samba, Nelsen, Santa Cruz, Bentley, McCarthy, Savage, Dunny, Tugay, Bellamy... big players. Those were the days.

[Mattyblue]

‘Jack is naturally a midfielder, but is at the back for us, due to his height.’

Thought Rodwell was brought in to be a defender as that is how Mowbray now saw him, with presumably some defensive qualities?  That quote sounds like he’s sill a midfielder chucked back there in an emergency because he’s tall.

Some very odd comments emanating from the manager.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

So he made this converted midfielder a defender now and put him ahead of a proper tall defender in the pecking order then let that defender go but we have to keep him their because we lack height at the back ?

Oh Tony Tony Tony......

[Miller11]

Rather than discussing the merits of Hughes, Wagner or Jakanovic, we would be better debating Glenn Roeder, Adrian Heath and Brian Little judging by Venky’s track record.

For that reason... Mowbray in. It’s not difficult to see where our issues stem from.

[Mercer]

Some on here advocating Mowbray should be retained in some capacity eg Director of Football.

One simple question - why?

I think Mowbray is a busted flush if he ever was one and has nothing further to offer our club in a football capacity.

Some are saying he needs to change his coaching staff.  It's nonsense - who appointed them, who oversees their work?  The buck stops with Mowbray.

On all footballing fronts, I think Mowbray is failing.  IMO, we are physically and mentally unfit, our team is disorganised, tactically, we are all over the place, in the main our football is primitive and dire and player trading is awful with £10m+ committed on Brereton, Armstrong, Davenport and Rothwell and for what?

As for team spirit. I think we have taken some hammerings this season and performances were desperate.  Where was this much famed team spirit at the likes of Bristol, Preston, Wigan, Brentford to name but a few.

Mowbray prattles on about his values.  Who really gives a feck about his values.  We want decent football, some good results and development and progression for our club.  Let's see where Mowbray's values are should we endure two or three more poor results and performances.  I very much doubt that our man of values and integrity will walk.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Mercer

[K-Hod]

To be fair, whilst he obviously brought Mark Venus with him as his assistant, weren't most of the back room staff here already?

Re walking away from a job, he's done it before....

Edited March 20, 2019 by K-Hod

[Mercer]

Just now, K-Hod said:

To be fair, whilst he obviously brought Mark Venus with him as his assistant, weren't most of the back room staff here already?

Re walking away from a job, he's done it before....

Didn't Mowbray promote Lowe to 1st team coach and give Benson a new contract as goalkeeping coach?

I think Lowe is an uninspiring individual and he never impressed me when I saw him with the Academy - I just can't see a spark there.

As for Benson, I think he looks like a little boy lost.  Against Wigan, he came out approx 2 minutes before the 2nd hald was due to start and stood there waiting for Raya - Raya eventually turned up, seemingly in his own time, after having kept Benson waiting for approx 2 minutes.  Benson then kicked/threw 3 'shots' at him and that was it, 2nd half began.  I think that showed a lack of respect for Benson and, IMO, therein lies the problem - just what has Benson done in the game to either mentor / improve Raya or command respect from Raya.

[JHRover]

Anyone know why we don't have a proper pre-kickoff warm up routine?

The majority of sides we play against come out of the tunnel before each kick off and go over to the touchline and do a quick routine of stepping over cones etc. Meanwhile our team tend to just stand around waiting, having a quick talk or individually stretching.

I don't know how much difference it makes but certainly observing from a distance it looks like one side is drilled and has a routine to follow to get them ready for kick off and the other doesn't.