Mowbray’s Future

[chaddyrovers]

49 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Because of his plan which you refuse to discuss. We know.

The plan was discussed to death when Mowbray talked at the fan meeting. 

So where had refuse to discuss it? Discussed it at the time..

So refused nothing so please stop lying again 

[Mercer]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The plan was discussed to death when Mowbray talked at the fan meeting. 

So where had refuse to discuss it? Discussed it at the time..

So refused nothing so please stop lying again 

I went to the Mowbray evening and came away unaware of Mowbray's plan / strategy !!!

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mercer said:

I went to the Mowbray evening and came away unaware of Mowbray's plan / strategy !!!

 

[SBlue]

Copy/Paste from another thread... for balance...

 

 

I’ve not been dropping into the forum as much recently because there seems to be a disease going round that gives you the memory of a goldfish and a mind, when decided, as impenetrable as Fort Knox.

Place is getting toxic and infecting the otherwise sound-minded.

 

My view:

We have just been promoted (net spend last 4 seasons circa minus £30m?)

 

In between us and the play offs are the following teams -

 

Bristol City - Doing well, steady.

 

Middlesbrough - Parachute Payments = massive wages and quality squad

 

Nottingham Forest - £23m net spend this season alone.

 

Preston North End - Doing well. Well done them.

 

Sheffield Wednesday - Spent about £40m and stupid wages in the past couple of years

 

Hull City - Parachute payments = massive wages 

 

Brentford - Solid. Well run. Something to aspire to. 3 points in front of us.

 

Stoke City - Premier League squad/wages and parachutes from last season.

 

Swansea City - ditto

 

 

We’ve just been promoted.

Get a fucking grip lads.

I almost don’t know what else I have to say.

 

 

-

Christ alive you lot are almost giving me faith in the owners!

They now know more about football than the forum!

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[Norbert Rassragr]

Is it 10 losses out of 11? That's pretty shocking form, and the loyalty towards players who are not up to the task is baffling.

[philipl]

6 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Is it 10 losses out of 11? That's pretty shocking form, and the loyalty towards players who are not up to the task is baffling.

He has been loyal to players in the treatment room as well.

[martonrover]

6 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Copy/Paste from another thread... for balance...

 

 

I’ve not been dropping into the forum as much recently because there seems to be a disease going round that gives you the memory of a goldfish and a mind, when decided, as impenetrable as Fort Knox.

Place is getting toxic and infecting the otherwise sound-minded.

 

My view:

We have just been promoted (net spend last 4 seasons circa minus £30m?)

 

In between us and the play offs are the following teams -

 

Bristol City - Doing well, steady.

 

Middlesbrough - Parachute Payments = massive wages and quality squad

 

Nottingham Forest - £23m net spend this season alone.

 

Preston North End - Doing well. Well done them.

 

Sheffield Wednesday - Spent about £40m and stupid wages in the past couple of years

 

Hull City - Parachute payments = massive wages 

 

Brentford - Solid. Well run. Something to aspire to. 3 points in front of us.

 

Stoke City - Premier League squad/wages and parachutes from last season.

 

Swansea City - ditto

 

 

We’ve just been promoted.

Get a fucking grip lads.

I almost don’t know what else I have to say.

 

 

-

Christ alive you lot are almost giving me faith in the owners!

They now know more about football than the forum!

 

 

We spent one season out of this division, so the "just promoted" line doesn't wash.

It's not uncommon for a well run club to have another strong season following promotion.

It's the direction of travel that's hugely concerning.

Had we started poorly and clawed our way out of trouble, there would be some grounds for optimism.

Eight defeats in ten games is abysmal form over a sustained period.

[tomphil]

'Perspective lads' . 

IF you win 5 in a row it's ok to lose every other one because you have a bit of credit in the bank points wise and you can also space those wins out between the losses in your own mind for 'balance' and things aren't so bad then !

[philipl]

For me it is the next 7 games.

Looking for at least 12 points to move me from getting worried to back into the backing Mowbray camp.

[jim mk2]

7 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

 4 points out of the last 30 I think.  It's not look good for next season is it ? 

[Tom Stinny]

The team that went down under coyle should not have gone down. It was not in the 3 worst teams in the league category for me. People are overestimating this league and not realising that solid 6/10 or 7/10 every week get you near the top 6 table.

 

Out of that team that went down the only real exit was captain Lowe but he got replaced by the magic of Smallwood so the team didn't really lose any quality. 

 

You then look at players like emnes, Gallagher and joau and I'd take Dack and Rothwell before all 3 of them. Mahoney left as well but I think Chapman is just as good once he gets on. 

 

The only player I'd take from that years team would be Duffy even though he's a knob but him and Lenihan at the back would do well.

 

So all this crap of it's the first year back remember that it was for one year basically bullying league 1 crap for a year. 

 

Again Mulgrew yesterday can't defend for his life but takes a set piece that contributes to a goal. If I was his manager I'd be fumming at him because if he could defend he'd be gold dust to us. 

[JHRover]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The plan was discussed to death when Mowbray talked at the fan meeting. 

So where had refuse to discuss it? Discussed it at the time..

So refused nothing so please stop lying again 

How can Mowbray have a plan when he probably doesn't have a budget and hasn't met with the owners yet?

What happens if their 'plan' is different to Mowbray's?

I remember him saying last summer that Venkys wanted to push towards the Premier League and he tried to slow them down. Bizarre.

[blueboy3333]

25 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

1 against Boro in a 1-1 so would have lost (-3)

-1 as we were only ever going to draw the game without his goal

edit - you've done the same with WBA and Brum games.

Edited March 31, 2019 by blueboy3333

[Blue blood]

37 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

That is the Mulgrew conundrum....

Where would we be without his goals and set pieces ?

Where would we be if he could defend and liked to head the ball ?

higher or lower ?

if we won 1-0 every week we would be going up....

 

 

2 goals against Reading finished 2-2 so would have lost (-3)

1 against Bristol City in a 4-1 defeat (0)

1 against Swansea in a 3-1 defeat (0)

1 against Boro in a 1-1 so would have lost (-3)

2 against Leeds but lost 3-2 (0)

1 against West Brom we won 2-1 so would have drawn (-2)

1 against Brum in a 2-2 draw so would have lost (-3)

1 against Rotherham in a 3-2 defeat (0)

 

11 points worse off without his goals

36 points, just above relegation on GD

 

I'd be interested to see how many fewer goals we'd have conceeded without Mulgrew at the back. I warrent it's comfortably more than the 11 he has scored. 

[Adam C]

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

We spent one season out of this division, so the "just promoted" line doesn't wash.

 

2 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

The team that went down under coyle should not have gone down. It was not in the 3 worst teams in the league category for me. People are overestimating this league and not realising that solid 6/10 or 7/10 every week get you near the top 6 table.

This makes no sense. 6/10 for effort is never going to get you anywhere near the top of any table. Are you serious with this statement as it’s not logical. 

2 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

 

So all this crap of it's the first year back remember that it was for one year basically bullying league 1 crap for a year. 

The best teams in a league end up at the top, and the worst teams in a league finish bottom. That’s the whole point of a league.

The relegation season we were one of the worst teams, we then spent a season in the league below and eventually came up as one of the better teams at that level. Common sense would suggest that means our level is lower championship. Sad but true. We have no right to be near the top of this league and apart from a couple of good runs we’re performing about how any neutral observer would expect.

Good luck to us if Mowbray goes, I can’t see anybody achieving much more than he has with the tools he’s been given. 

[martonrover]

Just now, The Hypnotic said:

 

This makes no sense. 6/10 for effort is never going to get you anywhere near the top of any table. Are you serious with this statement as it’s not logical. 

The best teams in a league end up at the top, and the worst teams in a league finish bottom. That’s the whole point of a league.

The relegation season we were one of the worst teams, we then spent a season in the league below and eventually came up as one of the better teams at that level. Common sense would suggest that means our level is lower championship. Sad but true. We have no right to be near the top of this league and apart from a couple of good runs we’re performing about how any neutral observer would expect.

Good luck to us if Mowbray goes, I can’t see anybody achieving much more than he has with the tools he’s been given. 

If you look back you will find evidence that your logic doesn't always follow.

Teams newly promoted to the Championship don't have to struggle.

I don't think anyone expected back to back promotions, but Mowbray himself spoke of "bouncing through the league".

As I posted earlier, I think the biggest concern is how we've arrived at our current standing, , i.e. a solid first half of the season followed by a slump.

If it continues until May, the writing will be on the wall for next season, (unless a change is made).

 

 

 

[blueboy3333]

7 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

Good luck to us if Mowbray goes, I can’t see anybody achieving much more than he has with the tools he’s been given. 

The tools he's been given? Like a £7m 19 year old who can't get in the team when he should have bought one, probably 2 CB's with that money and had change left over (including flex). 

Poor management.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, martonrover said:

If you look back you will find evidence that your logic doesn't always follow.

Teams newly promoted to the Championship don't have to struggle.

I don't think anyone expected back to back promotions, but Mowbray himself spoke of "bouncing through the league".

As I posted earlier, I think the biggest concern is how we've arrived at our current standing, , i.e. a solid first half of the season followed by a slump.

If it continues until May, the writing will be on the wall for next season, (unless a change is made).

 

 

 

Indeed. Millwall were 8th last season in their 1st season back after promotion (72 points). They are dogshit this season. We've just got promoted but our 'bounce' only lasted half a season whereas they kept it going for a full season.

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by blueboy3333

[roversfan99]

11 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Copy/Paste from another thread... for balance...

 

 

I’ve not been dropping into the forum as much recently because there seems to be a disease going round that gives you the memory of a goldfish and a mind, when decided, as impenetrable as Fort Knox.

Place is getting toxic and infecting the otherwise sound-minded.

 

My view:

We have just been promoted (net spend last 4 seasons circa minus £30m?)

 

In between us and the play offs are the following teams -

 

Bristol City - Doing well, steady.

 

Middlesbrough - Parachute Payments = massive wages and quality squad

 

Nottingham Forest - £23m net spend this season alone.

 

Preston North End - Doing well. Well done them.

 

Sheffield Wednesday - Spent about £40m and stupid wages in the past couple of years

 

Hull City - Parachute payments = massive wages 

 

Brentford - Solid. Well run. Something to aspire to. 3 points in front of us.

 

Stoke City - Premier League squad/wages and parachutes from last season.

 

Swansea City - ditto

 

 

We’ve just been promoted.

Get a fucking grip lads.

I almost don’t know what else I have to say.

 

 

-

Christ alive you lot are almost giving me faith in the owners!

They now know more about football than the forum!

 

 

The issue centres around development for next season. Mowbray was given a very healthy budget in the summer and we went to Villa Park with a fully fit squad bar Evans and not one of the starters wasnt here last season. How can that be justified? The Brereton deal is done to death I admit but he has taken responsibility for it and it was incredibly negligent considering the state of our defence. So how can people argue that he knows what to do this summer when he got last summer so badly wrong?

Are we after a difficult start now really growing as a team in the division? No, quite the opposite, and the stats over a considerable period are galling, 8 defeats in 10, I think 13 in 22, its horrendous over a large period of time.

And also, is he building for next season? Certainly not. Travis is one of the first names on the team sheet but needs a midfield partner. We have a very good technical midfielder in Rodwell whose contract is expiring, why not give him the last run of games to see if he warrants a contract in his natural position? Because he feels the need to shoehorn Bennett in, a player who has come up short in every position he plays in this season yet Mowbray continues to pick 10 players and play him in the place that remains. Why play Conway, he should have been let go 2 or 3 years ago, hes not the future. Rothwell needs a run of games, he was our best player v Wednesday, instantly criticised in public and dropped. Chapman and Davenport have played quite a few full games and are now fit, surely they warrant a place in the squad over Conway, Smallwood, Williams and one or two others.

The football is also terrible to watch, which is always secondary to results, but his reasoning behind decisions dont make any sense. How can he say that Rothwell and Chapman are not defensively capable enough to play when we are conceding so many goals as it is and he plays Armstrong wide week in week out, a player who is not defensively responsible himself. He has continued to neglect the defence as he did at previous clubs, why hasnt he learnt his lesson? To bring in Rodwell as one of three "centre backs" at the club was pure stupidity.

The whole we have just been promoted crap keeps getting peddled and the season hasnt been a disaster but we were out of the league for 1 season and have spent well over 10 million in the last 2 years, we cannot be directly compared to Wigan and Rotherham.

To be clear, I think our current league position is a little underwhelming but no one is saying it is disastrous. I think everyone is basing their desire to see the managerial change on the trajectory of our season, the repetition of the same mistakes, the continued over loyalty to under performing players, and the lack of tangible signs of building ahead of next season. He totally messed up last summer, and has neglected his defence in previous jobs, how can you justify expecting that this summer will be totally different?

[Tom Stinny]

2 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

 

This makes no sense. 6/10 for effort is never going to get you anywhere near the top of any table. Are you serious with this statement as it’s not logical. 

The best teams in a league end up at the top, and the worst teams in a league finish bottom. That’s the whole point of a league.

The relegation season we were one of the worst teams, we then spent a season in the league below and eventually came up as one of the better teams at that level. Common sense would suggest that means our level is lower championship. Sad but true. We have no right to be near the top of this league and apart from a couple of good runs we’re performing about how any neutral observer would expect.

Good luck to us if Mowbray goes, I can’t see anybody achieving much more than he has with the tools he’s been given. 

Are you a troll? I said 6/10 or 7/10 in terms of performance. You've got Bennet syndrome where you see running around as the only type of performance.

 

Yesterday prime example. Mulgrew good set piece, bit of poor goalkeeping got Rovers 1 goal.

 

Earlier. Mulgrew 1v1 in the box for a header got Villa 2-0 up. If everyone performed at a 6/10 or above you wouldn't concede as much and would make games more winnable.

 

I'm giving a 6/10 example because the only reason this league is competitive is because every team is pretty poor. Some more than others.

 

I certainly don't think Rovers are any worse than a Preston or a Hull or a Bristol city yet we are a good distance down the table. Every team there would love a Dack a Graham and probably even a Rothwell because they would know a way to integrate them best and get relative consistently from them.

 

Not this you score 3 we'll try and score 4 crap every week. A one off now and then sure. Not every bloody week. Piss poor manager who is only backed because he's apparently likeable.

 

Also he isn't an honest saint. He's already thrown a few of the kiddies under the bus in Raya and Rothwell yet won't pull up Mulgrew or Dack? I don't put Graham in that category because he's been quality this season. To make scraps out of what he gets is brilliant.

 

But hey we apparently play good football. More like BTEC allardyce footy without the defensive part.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Tom Stinny

[Adam C]

5 hours ago, martonrover said:

If you look back you will find evidence that your logic doesn't always follow.

Teams newly promoted to the Championship don't have to struggle.

I don't think anyone expected back to back promotions, but Mowbray himself spoke of "bouncing through the league".

As I posted earlier, I think the biggest concern is how we've arrived at our current standing, , i.e. a solid first half of the season followed by a slump.

If it continues until May, the writing will be on the wall for next season, (unless a change is made).

 

 

 

I think we overachieved at the start of the season but I’m guessing you think a solid start means we should have been in and around the playoff spots? He may have said he’d like us to bounce through the leagues and yes, some teams do have great success after being promoted but that’s very much the exception rather than the rule. 

 The slump is concerning but I think TM has earned the chance to build on this squad and try again next season. 

[Adam C]

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

The tools he's been given? Like a £7m 19 year old who can't get in the team when he should have bought one, probably 2 CB's with that money and had change left over (including flex). 

Poor management.

Yeah the Brereton signing has been a massive failure tbf. I hope he comes good eventually and justifies the financial outlay.

It’s all conjecture but I wouldn’t be sure that Brereton was a Mowbray choice. Anyway, apart from that signing I think TM has done brilliantly. No other manager has had the same impact working under Venkys. The players seem to admire him, he has integrity, and he had some success in getting us back into the championship. Not so long ago it seemed like we were a toxic club in free fall.

To turn this club around was an achievement that 6 coaches before him couldn’t manage. So yeah he’s overachieved with the hand he was given, especially since most of his tenure has been in league one where clubs bigger than us have struggled to get back out of. 

[Adam C]

3 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

Are you a troll? I said 6/10 or 7/10 in terms of performance. You've got Bennet syndrome where you see running around as the only type of performance.

.....

 

I'm giving a 6/10 example because the only reason this league is competitive is because every team is pretty poor. Some more than others.

 

I certainly don't think Rovers are any worse than a Preston or a Hull or a Bristol city yet we are a good distance down the table. Every team there would love a Dack a Graham and probably even a Rothwell because they would know a way to integrate them best and get relative consistently from them.

Theres 24 teams in the championship so the top 6 represents the top 25% of the teams. You’re saying that with 60% performances it’s possible to get there. That’s the illogical part of your post. I’m not being a troll for pointing that out.

I remember when we got relegated to the championship, on this site there was a lot of opinion along the lines of “I can’t wait to get out of this tinpot league”. The sad truth is we were there on merit and were relegated again soon after.

No club in this league can say that they’re punching below their weight, certainly we can’t as our performances over the last two seasons have seen us at the bottom end of this league. 

We don’t have any right to outperform teams at this level based on us once being in the premiership. I think some fans forget that and it causes a lot of resentment and leads to some fans wanting our most successful manager in the Venkys reign to be sacked. 

[DE.]

Mowbray himself has said Brereton was his signing, "too good to turn down" was his exact words, so unless we're saying he's lying to cover for the owners (which destroys the integrity argument) we have to lay the blame for that signing at his feet.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, The Hypnotic said:

No other manager has had the same impact working under Venkys. 

Nonsense. Bowyer not only stopped us getting relegated (something Mowbray failed to do) but he also finished in the top 10 twice after building his own team on a lot less than Mowbray spunked on BB.