The Big Summer Clearout

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 Although you are a professional Rovers supporter, you weren't a professional footballer. These lads are supposed to be trained athletes, earning huge wages. I don't think it's expecting much for them to behave in a professional manner, which includes not plastering their social life all over social media. 

I played against David Cross as a young player and I knew him quite well. His brothers played cricket for Heywood in the old CLL. He'd go along to watch them  in the football close season and I was stood at the bar at Rochdale's ground one day when he came up next to me. I said " Can I get you a beer Dave ", He said " No just get me a tomato juice, I don't drink much ". When I persisted he said " No thanks, there'll be plenty of time for ale when I finish playing ".

That was a lad who had a long career as a top level striker in the old First Division with Man City and West Ham among others but I can tell he you had about half the footballing ability Bradley Dack has. What Crossy had was " attitude " and you can't buy that.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It would be very interesting, because Mowbray is constantly saying we have money to spend. So if we sold Dack and next thing it's deadline day and we have spent peanuts, I think it's safe to say fans would be livid. 

One constant of Venkys reign at this club has been that employees are quick to heap praise on them for their caring nature and their supposed eagerness to invest into the club and support it in whatever way possible. Time and time again we hear about how much money they have and how they want to invest into making the club better, yet also time after time that is followed by a big 'BUT'. In years gone by it was all about them being keen to invest BUT unfortunately FFP rules stopped them doing it. These days its about them being keen to invest BUT Mowbray wanting to slow things down, BUT there not being good value in the market etc.

I don't question they are extremely wealthy people who are probably quite generous with that wealth. But it is also easy and cheap to talk about spending, not so much actually spending it. Anyone can sit back after the transfer window has closed and talk about how much you could have spent. Likewise it's easy to talk whilst we see next to nothing invested into the Ewood stadium and pitch each year.

A lot of ifs, buts, maybes and excuses in my view. Those owners determined enough to do it just go ahead and do it. If you have a manager who wants to put the brakes on and slow you down then you decide and make a change if necessary. I don't remember Wolves owners last season moaning about FFP rules or talking about what they could have done.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Don Said said:

With regards to leading the summer clearout...

Is Mowbray head coach? Or is he manager?

I've always had the feeling that he is in the managerial role, however I've just seen that when he was appointed, the official site welcomed him as the new head coach. However the official site in the staff section currently lists him as the manager. Was there a mistake somewhere? Was there a change at some point? 

A manager is expected to oversee the key front line aspects of the playing squad from coaching through to recruitment. Whereas a head coach is self explanatory - head of the coaching department, thus responsible for coaching and coaching only. Not recruitment.

I've seen many posts across a few topics lately discussing certain players as being Mowbray signings/not Mowbray signings; if he is indeed head coach none of them are his signings. Added, there's been a lot of posts about Mowbray rinsing and repeating his old signings/targets. Does he have full control? Does he just give advisory input? And one of the key reasons for wanting Mowbray to be replaced is recruitment. We've not done well in the last couple of windows & we probably need a change in approach to do better in the next window. So by replacing Mowbray as manager we would be giving ourselves a shot at better immediate recruitment. But if we replaced him as head coach, in theory recruitment would be exactly the same as it would be with him in place. Thus being manager/head coach would have a major impact on most fans decision on whether they would or wouldn't like him to remain at the club through the summer, so it's quite important to understand.

I might have missed something but would appreciate some clarity!!

Mowbray was appointed as Head Coach because Paul Senior was in place at the time as Director of Football. In the aftermath of relegation Paul Senior walked out leaving a void and from then on Mowbray was referred to as Manager rather than Head Coach. It seems when he went to India in the summer of 2017 it was agreed he would assume responsibilities for recruitment as he had at his previous clubs and the Director of Football position would remain vacant.

Some of the traditionalists prefer that arrangement with a nice man like Mowbray apparently in control of transfer strategy at the club. As I've raised many times in the past I think with our ownership structure a Director of Football and Head Coach system is more likely to reap rewards for us in the longer term. I think there is too much power in the manager's hands and if/when the time comes to make a change there is a big void to fill. This would be reduced if we had a D of F who liaised with the owners and had oversight of the operation and could change head coach when needed.

Some outlets, mainly Radio Lancashire, still refer to Mowbray as Head Coach which I think is them being behind the times.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Don Said said:

With regards to leading the summer clearout...

Is Mowbray head coach? Or is he manager?

I've always had the feeling that he is in the managerial role, however I've just seen that when he was appointed, the official site welcomed him as the new head coach. However the official site in the staff section currently lists him as the manager. Was there a mistake somewhere? Was there a change at some point? 

A manager is expected to oversee the key front line aspects of the playing squad from coaching through to recruitment. Whereas a head coach is self explanatory - head of the coaching department, thus responsible for coaching and coaching only. Not recruitment.

I've seen many posts across a few topics lately discussing certain players as being Mowbray signings/not Mowbray signings; if he is indeed head coach none of them are his signings. Added, there's been a lot of posts about Mowbray rinsing and repeating his old signings/targets. Does he have full control? Does he just give advisory input? And one of the key reasons for wanting Mowbray to be replaced is recruitment. We've not done well in the last couple of windows & we probably need a change in approach to do better in the next window. So by replacing Mowbray as manager we would be giving ourselves a shot at better immediate recruitment. But if we replaced him as head coach, in theory recruitment would be exactly the same as it would be with him in place. Thus being manager/head coach would have a major impact on most fans decision on whether they would or wouldn't like him to remain at the club through the summer, so it's quite important to understand.

I might have missed something but would appreciate some clarity!!

It does seem to have veered between the two although not sure there's much in that other than it being Venky land so when he's doing his own thing he's manager but when he's being 'advised' what to do he's a head coach or some other jiggling about.

As pointed out on here before they made a big announcement that a new team was being put in place upstairs only to go quiet on it for months then when pressed announce the same people in virtually the same roles.  Only real item of difference being the shadowman becoming officially the middleman.

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 As for selling him, I wouldn't be against it if we got the right offer, but I think you are raving if you think Armstrong can replace him. 

Arms has 8 goals this season from out on the wing. He’s a number 10.

For some reason, when he is played further forward it seems to be at the expense of Graham rather than with him.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I played against David Cross as a young player and I knew him quite well. His brothers played cricket for Heywood in the old CLL. He'd go along to watch them  in the football close season and I was stood at the bar at Rochdale's ground one day when he came up next to me. I said " Can I get you a beer Dave ", He said " No just get me a tomato juice, I don't drink much ". When I persisted he said " No thanks, there'll be plenty of time for ale when I finish playing ".

That was a lad who had a long career as a top level striker in the old First Division with Man City and West Ham among others but I can tell he you had about half the footballing ability Bradley Dack has. What Crossy had was " attitude " and you can't buy that.

Imagine Dack with the right attitude: fit, athletic, focussed, motivated.

He needs a rocket from Souness and a cuddle from Dunny.

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Arms has 8 goals this season from out on the wing. He’s a number 10.

For some reason, when he is played further forward it seems to be at the expense of Graham rather than with him.

Because Dacks place is a given because he has 15 goals and is our top scorer. As is Grahams when he is fit. The only functioning part of our team that doesnt need breaking up.

[Stuart]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Because Dacks place is a given because he has 15 goals and is our top scorer. As is Grahams when he is fit. The only functioning part of our team that doesnt need breaking up.

I think that’s a very short term view.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Stuart said:

Footballers don’t clock off - ever. They represent the club they play for, at all times.

Having them blow off steam during the Summer break I’m fine with. During the season - or if they are recovering from injury - they should be maintaining their fitness so that they can perform when needed on the pitch. If they can’t maintain their bodies to help maintain their form then the least they could do is be more discrete - which, in the days of social media, is becoming more and more difficult.

I don’t think Dack is going to change. As great a footballer as he can be (really only ‘proven’ at L1 level - and with a patchy history) he is going to let us down. I want us to get as much money as we can for him rather than hang on to him as his value will decrease rather than increase. He certainly isn’t going to become an England international any time soon.

Sorry Stuart but I disagree with the 1st point. Footballers should be allowed a private life. We will have to agree to disagree cos we arent going to agree on this issue are we? 

I would keep Dack and build my team around him. Dack has a good season by his goals and assists stats at this level. His 1st time at this level..

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Sorry Stuart but I disagree with the 1st point. Footballers should be allowed a private life. We will have to agree to disagree cos we arent going to agree on this issue are we? 

I would keep Dack and build my team around him. Dack has a good season by his goals and assists stats at this level. His 1st time at this level..

Funnily enough, Chris, I don’t post on here hoping for your approval.  

Footballers lives are very public, and very far from private, which means they are always on duty as ambassadors of the club. There’s a reason Gillingham got shut and it was nothing to do with his footballing ability. And he’s been in trouble since he has been with us. He needs to grow up a lot. Sadly he mixes in the wrong circles - although I expect he disagrees with me too!

[Mattyblue]

Of course they should have a private life, but you give that up if you post your life on Instagram, no?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Funnily enough, Chris, I don’t post on here hoping for your approval.  

Footballers lives are very public, and very far from private, which means they are always on duty as ambassadors of the club. There’s a reason Gillingham got shut and it was nothing to do with his footballing ability. And he’s been in trouble since he has been with us. He needs to grow up a lot. Sadly he mixes in the wrong circles - although I expect he disagrees with me too!

He has been clean for the last 18 months. Settled in Manchester living wise. 

You seem against footballers having some fun at the right times like during the international break when they are given days off by the manager

And Dack didnt post the pic of him in Manchester but he was asked for photo by a fan and he was good enough to do it for the fan. A point which you miss. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

He has been clean for the last 18 months. Settled in Manchester living wise. 

You seem against footballers having some fun at the right times like during the international break when they are given days off by the manager

The right times are between 19 May and 30 June. Maybe a week earlier.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

The right times are between 19 May and 30 June. Maybe a week earlier.

Thats your view Stuart sadly we arent like you. Players are(should be) allowed down time and time to go out with friends and family for meals and drinks. As long as it after a game on Saturday night or during a international break dont see as issue

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Thats your view Stuart sadly we arent like you. Players are(should be) allowed down time and time to go out with friends and family for meals and drinks. 

 

Don’t be sad, I’ve set the bar high.

Down time, within reason, yes, but don’t drink or do things that could damage your body or your fitness. If he got injured playing volleyball on the beach, would you say that was fair enough?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Don’t be sad, I’ve set the bar high.

Down time, within reason, yes, but don’t drink or do things that could damage your body or your fitness. If he got injured playing volleyball on the beach, would you say that was fair enough?

Do we even know if Dack was drinking alcohol when that picture was taken? Or was he out having a meal, drinking soft drinks and watching England? 

Abit extreme example but fair enough. Abit hard to play Volleyball on the bench in UK. far too winds and cold. 

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 Abit extreme example but fair enough. Abit hard to play Volleyball on the bench in UK. far too winds and cold. 

Well if he’s only on the bench then he’ll probably be ok anyway.

[DeeCee]

This mythical Summer clearout? I fully expect to see Williams, Conway, Evans, Bennett, Graham, Mulgrew  and Smallwood here this time next season.

Probably Gladwin and Samuel as well ?

[bluebruce]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thats your view Stuart sadly we arent like you. 

 

Who is this 'we'? The only person I've noticed sit on the same side as you through this discussion has been BDS, and he has more just been saying that the photo doesn't show he was getting wrecked, rather than your apparent point that he should be able to go on the lash as much as he likes.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, DeeCee said:

This mythical Summer clearout? I fully expect to see Williams, Conway, Evans, Bennett, Graham, Mulgrew  and Smallwood here this time next season.

Probably Gladwin and Samuel as well ?

Mulgrew, Evans and Graham have signed new contracts for next season. 

Bennett is good player. Why get rid? 

Williams and Smallwood I would like to see leave

Edited March 25, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[DE.]

Just now, DeeCee said:

This mythical Summer clearout? I fully expect to see Williams, Conway, Evans, Bennett, Graham, Mulgrew  and Smallwood here this time next season.

Probably Gladwin and Samuel as well ?

Evans, Smallwood, Mulgrew and Graham were all recently given new contracts so yeah, you'd expect them to be around next season. There wasn't any interest in Evans even when we got relegated, Smallwood came to us on a free from Rotherham and Mulgrew/Graham are at the tail ends of their respective careers, probably on a very decent wage here. I'd expect Bennett to stay purely because of his versatility. Del Boy is somehow contracted to 2021 and I don't see many people coming in to take him from us. 

Conway is the only one I could see going as his contract expires in the summer and he hasn't played that much this season. Possible he could retire into a coaching role with us, but at 33 he might still feel he has a few years left in the tank north of the border.

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

He has been clean for the last 18 months. 

Can you expand on this?  To somebody reading this board for the first time they would jump to a number of conclusions about your claims.  What exactly is bradders clean of?

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mulgrew, Evans and Graham have signed new contracts for next season. 

Bennett is good player. Why get rid? 

Williams and Smallwood I would like to see leave

It's good to see you willing to be critical of some players. It's worth pointing out though, Williams and Smallwood also signed new deals.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mulgrew, Evans and Graham have signed new contracts for next season. 

Bennett is good player. Why get rid? 

Williams and Smallwood I would like to see leave

Would you agree that it was an incredibly short sighted mistake to give Smallwood and Williams new deals when we got promoted as "rewards." You wont progress with such a lack of ruthlessness. Same with Bennett and Conway.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course they should have a private life, but you give that up if you post your life on Instagram, no?

No, because we are discussing a picture a fan shared of him.