Mowbray: Stay or go?

[BankEnd Rover]

Just now, Neal said:

That's not a good enough reason to keep employing someone who (at the moment at least) looks nailed on to lead us to a second relegation. Yes, he's a nicer bloke and better manager than the jokers we've had in recent history but it's not about that, it's about if he's simply good enough to take us forwards. Based on our last 30 points return, how anyone can conclude that he is almost borders on delusional, or just blind faithful at least. 

 

I don't think you will find any of us that won't agree that he's a nice fella and has done a good job getting us promoted but football is about the nowand he's very much demonstrating that he's not up to the job, much like the favourites he's been picking week in week out for most of the season. 

Took the words out my mouth...

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, MCMC1875 said:

Well there is the pointless day to day business:

- Age UK initiative.

- Stoke clash dedicated Kick It Out game.

- BT Sport Pub Cup to take place at Ewood.

Stuff like that can be dealt with by anyone, or in our case probably by the Community Trust who these days seem to be at the centre of everything that happens at the club.

A chief executive is supposed to run the club - budgets, all departments, hire and fire, managing all operations etc. If Waggott can't do those things, or indeed can't even order an extra sack of grass seed without India having to approve it all first then he isn't a chief executive.

[davulsukur]

1 hour ago, MCMC1875 said:

We've been told (by Rob Coar at a Supporters Consultation Meeting?) that all decisions are made in India.

This is how they have run things from day one. It doesn't matter who sits in any director/CE role at Ewood, they never have any real power to do anything, 

Incidentally, this might actually work in our favour as it means Waggott won't be able to keep Mowbray in a job.

[Exiled in Toronto]

For all the blustering on here I reckon there’s zero chance Mowbray will be potted before this time next year.

1) This isn’t the only online congregation of Rovers fans, it’s just the only one running weekly sacking polls. While some on here might think those on there to be deluded fools for backing Mowbray, if it comes to a question of fan sentiment, their votes count too.

2) The fact is the overall fan sentiment is nothing like as negative it was for Kean and Coyle, and look how long it took to get rid of them.

3) The last ten games have been a dreadful run but, as a mid-table-ish team to that point, it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to expect, say W3, D3, L4, so, in reality, we are talking about losing an extra 4 games we should have won/drawn. 

4) Many of the reasons I’ve read on here are about what he will do - balls up the summer; keep playing his favourites etc. - I’ve yet to see our owners take such a far-sighted view.

He’s going nowhere.

[Vinjay]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

They got rid of the best Chief Exec in the Premier League. Nothing should surprise you.

The one who finished bottom last season?

[perthblue02]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

The one who finished bottom last season?

No, that was Li Piyue. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by perthblue02

[benhben]

Every interview Mowbray does with the LET annoys me now. Some of his comments are just weird and show how hes a tactically a muddled mess. The latest of his comments on Rothwell. 

“Adam has a natural work ethic. He’s like a cross country runner, but also a sprinter, which is why I play Adam on that side as an attacking winger and on the other side a hardworking Conway or Bennett."

Why? Why do we need a Bennett or Conway on the other flank? Has it proved to help us keep clean sheets over the season? If hes impressing you and the fans why not play them both?

I struggle to listen to him these days witouth getting wound up. Time to go. 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17542185.tony-mowbray-on-why-joe-rothwell-isnt-starting-for-rovers/

Edited April 1, 2019 by benhben

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

So Waggott isn't Chief Executive then.

Perhaps in name only!

I am struggling to see how Waggott has moved Rovers forward in any shape or form.  IMO, another employee not fit for purpose. 

[DE.]

31 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

For all the blustering on here I reckon there’s zero chance Mowbray will be potted before this time next year.

I don't think anybody is voting under the assumption it'll make a difference. I agree, he's going nowhere for the foreseeable future. He'll at least get the summer and maybe some way into next season. Coyle wasn't potted until, what, February? 

[Angry_Pirate]

The best managerial move this club has made since King Kenny was in 2000.

Even though Tony Parks was doing his usual classy treading water job and the season was going nowhere, there was no pressing need to get the next manager in.

Graeme Souness was brought in around Easter and you cannot underestimate how crucial it was due to those 6-10 games finsihing 11th why we were able to get promoted the next season.

Jansen and Dunn were nowhere near the starting 11 and our GK and CB options were poor.

Souness brought in Berg, Bjornebye, Curtis and Friedel and built the team around Jansen, Duff and Dunn.

Mowbray would have continued with Carsley, Ward, Dailly, Fettis and Peacock.

Tony Mowbray is 2019 Tony Parks... very likeable guy and we owe him a lot but....

Out.

[Paul Mani]

This forum is so harsh at times. The manager has been a breath of fresh air in general. He united the fans with the club and got the club feeling good again. I can’t remember a happier atmosphere than last seasons final home game. 

As Iv said, I see this summer as being Tony’s moment as Blackburn Rovers Manager. His loyalty to the players who worked so hard to get us up last season was fully vindicated until January. But he deserves the chance to put it right in my opinion. He’s earned that surely?

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

For all the blustering on here I reckon there’s zero chance Mowbray will be potted before this time next year.

1) This isn’t the only online congregation of Rovers fans, it’s just the only one running weekly sacking polls. While some on here might think those on there to be deluded fools for backing Mowbray, if it comes to a question of fan sentiment, their votes count too.

2) The fact is the overall fan sentiment is nothing like as negative it was for Kean and Coyle, and look how long it took to get rid of them.

3) The last ten games have been a dreadful run but, as a mid-table-ish team to that point, it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to expect, say W3, D3, L4, so, in reality, we are talking about losing an extra 4 games we should have won/drawn. 

4) Many of the reasons I’ve read on here are about what he will do - balls up the summer; keep playing his favourites etc. - I’ve yet to see our owners take such a far-sighted view.

He’s going nowhere.

Mowbray’s 4 points from 30 (W1D1L8) is the joint worst of any manager since Venkys took over, tied with Steve Kean who managed W0D4L6 from 10 games.

Appleton managed W0D3L4 (from 7 games) and Bowyer followed with W0D1L2 from 3, in a combined 10 game stretch - so neither counts as a fair comparison (Bowyer won his 4th and 5th game).

If Mowbray doesn’t win his next game that will be our worst ever Venkys run (4 or 5 from 33). If we follow that up with defeat at home to Bolton, surely patience must run out, or is Mowbray now some kind of benevolent mafia don?

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

This forum is so harsh at times. The manager has been a breath of fresh air in general. He united the fans with the club and got the club feeling good again. I can’t remember a happier atmosphere than last seasons final home game. 

As Iv said, I see this summer as being Tony’s moment as Blackburn Rovers Manager. His loyalty to the players who worked so hard to get us up last season was fully vindicated until January. But he deserves the chance to put it right in my opinion. He’s earned that surely?

When is he going to start? Because we are on a downward slide - relegation form - and he is still picking the same L1 team!

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Stuart said:

When is he going to start? Because we are on a downward slide - relegation form - and he is still picking the same L1 team!

I understand your worries. But the team was performing perfectly well until January. Probably exceeding expectations if anything. 2-3 months after he was likely being lauded for doing a great job, he can’t now be a crap manager?

It’s entirely fair to say that the players he trusted have proven themselves unable to sustain their early season highs. I may have done things differently but I can accept his reasons for staying loyal. That said absolutely has to abandon several of those players now in order to kick on. I for one don’t think we’re a million miles from being in the mix for the playoffs. Our form up until Jan backs this up.

But the day of reckoning is fast approaching for Tony. A make or break summer. Do the right thing and cut the apron strings and he has the chance to go down in our famous history. Refuse to do so and he’s a dead man walking.

Either way, imo he’s earned that chance.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Paul Mani

[Stuart]

Slightly different angle on the same outcome but if Mowbray resigned today would anyone beg him to reconsider?

[K-Hod]

36 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I understand your worries. But the team was performing perfectly well until January. Probably exceeding expectations if anything. 2-3 months after he was likely being lauded for doing a great job, he can’t now be a crap manager?

It’s entirely fair to say that the players he trusted have proven themselves unable to sustain their early season highs. I may have done things differently but I can accept his reasons for staying loyal. That said absolutely has to abandon several of those players now in order to kick on. I for one don’t think we’re a million miles from being in the mix for the playoffs. Our form up until Jan backs this up.

But the day of reckoning is fast approaching for Tony. A make or break summer. Do the right thing and cut the apron strings and he has the chance to go down in our famous history. Refuse to do so and he’s a dead man walking.

Either way, imo he’s earned that chance.

Absolutely, re the bit in bold. That’s what makes it all the more ridiculous that we didn’t strengthen in January, not to mention sending loads of defenders out on loan, whilst relying on players with chequered injury records. 

We play loads of defensive minded players, but we still concede loads of goals. 

How many late goals have we shipped? How many times after we equalise have we conceded?

Why have these issues not been addressed? Despite our manager and assistant formerly being defenders themselves?

He needs to improve very quickly and I’m concerned that he won’t be able to.

I really hope he can as I like the bloke, but he needs to get a wriggle on.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by K-Hod

[Tom]

4 hours ago, benhben said:

Every interview Mowbray does with the LET annoys me now. Some of his comments are just weird and show how hes a tactically a muddled mess. The latest of his comments on Rothwell. 

“Adam has a natural work ethic. He’s like a cross country runner, but also a sprinter, which is why I play Adam on that side as an attacking winger and on the other side a hardworking Conway or Bennett."

Why? Why do we need a Bennett or Conway on the other flank? Has it proved to help us keep clean sheets over the season? If hes impressing you and the fans why not play them both?

I struggle to listen to him these days witouth getting wound up. Time to go. 

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17542185.tony-mowbray-on-why-joe-rothwell-isnt-starting-for-rovers/

Those are pretty shocking comments a hard worker on one wing doesn’t effect the other, add to that the fact that Nyambe in the right is better than anyone on the left so he’s just making up excuses now 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

This forum is so harsh at times. The manager has been a breath of fresh air in general. He united the fans with the club and got the club feeling good again. I can’t remember a happier atmosphere than last seasons final home game. 

As Iv said, I see this summer as being Tony’s moment as Blackburn Rovers Manager. His loyalty to the players who worked so hard to get us up last season was fully vindicated until January. But he deserves the chance to put it right in my opinion. He’s earned that surely?

For me, the weakest and most illogical argument in regards to keeping Mowbray is that surely he deserves another summer.

The reason being is that in a summer that he had 10m to spend, he hasnt improved our team at all, so how can that be the crux of your plea to keep him?! 

I also dont really get why people are so sure that he is suddenly going to become much more ruthless. Unfortunately, he crazily rushed to sign Williams and Smallwood on longer contracts, and hes said in his quotes above that he maintains that he needs a Bennett or Conway out wide, oblivious to the fact that neither are up to it.

[JHRover]

At this moment in time I am on the side that Mowbray should be left in place to oversee a summer rebuild on the basis that he's delivered his minimum objective of securing our status in the division. By no means a walk in the park albeit worth remembering that we aren't a bunch of rookies, we've a lot of experience in this league and had we been competently managed in 2016-17 we almost certainly wouldn't have gone down. Another feather in the cap of our generous owners. 

Worth remembering though we still need 5 points from 7 games to surpass our relegation total from 2016-17. Failure to do that given the money spent would be very disappointing.

I've also zero faith in them to drive us on without Mowbray - which i accept isn't really a sufficient argument to keep Mowbray in place - but it makes me look at a managerial change with apprehension and concern rather than the optimism and excitement a change should bring. 

One of my biggest concerns with Mowbray is his patchy transfer record and haphazard recruitment, and it is therefore a big gamble to entrust him with an important summer, but the other factor here is Venkys and their mental operation of the club, so at the very least Mowbray is accustomed to their ways and knows how to extract some funds from them, albeit no doubt has to jump through hoops to get it and meet god knows what number of stipulations before it is approved in India. Either way a higher quality manager would in my interpretation struggle to operate under their structure and until they change that it will remain the case.

One thing that I would say is to those people saying he deserves the summer and then see where we are next season. At what point is it judgment time? After the summer he'll be 3 windows into his Championship stint with us, if he's in control of transfers and gets reasonable backing then we and the owners would rightly expect to see evidence of progression. If we don't see that quickly next season at what point does a view be formed? No doubt if we start poorly then the talk will be about giving the new players time to settle in etc.

These next 7 games in my view should be a good opportunity to observe and form a view moving forwards about where we are going. Another 5-7 defeats and unfortunately it should be curtains. A few wins and some confidence should build.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Absolutely, re the bit in bold. That’s what makes it all the more ridiculous that we didn’t strengthen in January, not to mention sending loads of defenders out on loan, whilst relying on players with chequered injury records. 

We play loads of defensive minded players, but we still concede loads of goals. 

How many late goals have we shipped? How many times after we equalise have we conceded?

Why have these issues not been addressed? Despite our manager and assistant formerly being defenders themselves?

He needs to improve very quickly and I’m concerned that he won’t be able to.

I really hope he can as I like the bloke, but he needs to get a wriggle on.

 

They’re all the same players who started the season so well and were a couple of points from the playoffs in Jan. Having said that, even in those early months we had conceded late goals. Though I think the consensus of opinion was that the problem was ‘game management’ as oppose to poor defenders.

 

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

For me, the weakest and most illogical argument in regards to keeping Mowbray is that surely he deserves another summer.

The reason being is that in a summer that he had 10m to spend, he hasnt improved our team at all, so how can that be the crux of your plea to keep him?! 

I also dont really get why people are so sure that he is suddenly going to become much more ruthless. Unfortunately, he crazily rushed to sign Williams and Smallwood on longer contracts, and hes said in his quotes above that he maintains that he needs a Bennett or Conway out wide, oblivious to the fact that neither are up to it.

I think it’s fair to say that the overriding desire last summer was to keep the group together and add some young, potential to develop and hopefully break into that team. £10m isn’t a huge amount of investment in that league and I don’t think the actual payments so far will be even half that. 

My point is that having deployed that method, it worked for half the season and has failed since that point. But I genuinely believe that he has to be given the opportunity to do the right thing and put this right this summer by buying players ready to step over his favourites in order to move us forwards. If he can’t or won’t id be content to see him moved on.

 

There’s nothing weak or illogical in that argument. That was then, this is now. Had we still been in contention for the playoffs then he would’ve been fully justified in his decision.

He deserves THAT chance imo. 

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I understand your worries. But the team was performing perfectly well until January. Probably exceeding expectations if anything. 2-3 months after he was likely being lauded for doing a great job, he can’t now be a crap manager?

It’s entirely fair to say that the players he trusted have proven themselves unable to sustain their early season highs. I may have done things differently but I can accept his reasons for staying loyal. That said absolutely has to abandon several of those players now in order to kick on. I for one don’t think we’re a million miles from being in the mix for the playoffs. Our form up until Jan backs this up.

But the day of reckoning is fast approaching for Tony. A make or break summer. Do the right thing and cut the apron strings and he has the chance to go down in our famous history. Refuse to do so and he’s a dead man walking.

Either way, imo he’s earned that chance.

Completely an utterly disagree.

Tony should have seen by January they weren't of the quality and made use of the market to make the changes. Instead he continued to pick the awful players and we went downhill. 

We were completely found out tactically. Mowbray doesn't know his best team still.

Watch Brentford away and it's all far too obvious why he shouldn't be manager.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

Completely an utterly disagree.

Tony should have seen by January they weren't of the quality and made use of the market to make the changes. Instead he continued to pick the awful players and we went downhill. 

We were completely found out tactically. Mowbray doesn't know his best team still.

Watch Brentford away and it's all far too obvious why he shouldn't be manager.

I respect that you disagree. But I think it’s odd to suggest he ‘carried on’ picking awful players when those exact players were the ones who’d got us to within touching distance of the playoffs. Had he changed the side and the results gone down hill he would be being castigated for fixing something that was not broken. You make decisions and sometimes you get them right, other times you get them wrong.

Q - Had he started the season poorly and picked up after the first 10 games to come roaring back in the second half of the season do you think there’d be the same clamour for his head? Football is fickle and fans forget easily. 

Iv given my opinion. I respect yours. Agree to disagree?

[roversfan99]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

They’re all the same players who started the season so well and were a couple of points from the playoffs in Jan. Having said that, even in those early months we had conceded late goals. Though I think the consensus of opinion was that the problem was ‘game management’ as oppose to poor defenders.

 

I think it’s fair to say that the overriding desire last summer was to keep the group together and add some young, potential to develop and hopefully break into that team. £10m isn’t a huge amount of investment in that league and I don’t think the actual payments so far will be even half that. 

My point is that having deployed that method, it worked for half the season and has failed since that point. But I genuinely believe that he has to be given the opportunity to do the right thing and put this right this summer by buying players ready to step over his favourites in order to move us forwards. If he can’t or won’t id be content to see him moved on.

 

There’s nothing weak or illogical in that argument. That was then, this is now. Had we still been in contention for the playoffs then he would’ve been fully justified in his decision.

He deserves THAT chance imo. 

Firstly, when the payments are made is irrelevant, and purely speculative, point is we have committed that level of money, a very healthy budget to at least somewhat improve the first team.

I don't see how his summer recruitment can be defended. We are within a process whereby Mowbray has repeatedly stated that the aim is to challenge for promotion. Following promotion, there is plenty of scope to improve a side, you are far from the point of development at a team that you can put all of your eggs into signing players seen as development players who in turn havent even provided serious competition, when its neglecting areas of the team that are not good enough for a progressive Championship side. 

You look at the individuals he has brought in, Reed is a successful albeit temporary signing, the Palmer situation on the flip side was handled poorly and has to be deemed as a failure. The Rodwell situation sums up how much of a priority he sees the defence as, reported interest in Bauer but his plan B was a midfielder who may well have proved a bargain in his natural position instead used unsuccessfully as a sticking plaster in our flimsy defence. Davenport may or may not exist and he has signed 2 attacking players in Rothwell and now Chapman who ultimately he has absolutely no trust in, and are quite clearly the polar opposite of what is in the Tony Mowbray manual of being a wide man. And the main bit, we only really have Graham as a central striker, to sign someone for 7m (with over 50 Championship appearances) who hasnt been able to put any pressure at all on an impressive but veteran striker is indefensible.

I don't see him moving away from his set way of playing Armstrong one side and Bennett/Conway/Reed while still here on the other, he mentioned that even today and seems insistent on sticking with his favourites even though its quite clearly failing him at the moment. In general, I suspect that it is incredibly naive to expect him to ditch all of his favourites in a summer overhaul. He is far too stubborn and loyal to players who this season have ultimately let him down (quality not effort) numerous times.

Also, he managed to combine conservatism (picking wide men for perceived and debatable defensive abilities) and a horrendous defensive record in incredible fashion.

[OJRovers]

I don’t think he deserves another summer transfer window.

It makes you sick looking at some of the players that have torn us apart this season from Brentford,Norwich etc etc costing a fraction of what we have spent on players that are frankly League One standard.

The exciting players we do sign don’t get picked (Rothwell/Chapman).

 

[BlackburnEnd75]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

This forum is so harsh at times. The manager has been a breath of fresh air in general. He united the fans with the club and got the club feeling good again. I can’t remember a happier atmosphere than last seasons final home game. 

As Iv said, I see this summer as being Tony’s moment as Blackburn Rovers Manager. His loyalty to the players who worked so hard to get us up last season was fully vindicated until January. But he deserves the chance to put it right in my opinion. He’s earned that surely?

The problem is that with each passing game he misses the opportunity to put it right. He’s played an 11 of players from last season at the weekend. He’s shoehorned Bennett into a new position and dropped rothwell who was our best player from the previous game. He’s wasting opportunity’s to turn it around. It’s not fully about our dreadful form, if Tony plays the young players or flair players and drops the untouchables until the end of the season and tried to evolve the team then I’d be happy whatever the results.