Mowbray: Stay or go?

[RoversClitheroe]

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

After the first 20 games we were on course for the playoffs mate. So what’s your point?

Even during those 20 games everyone could see who the weaklinks were.

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

My point still stands though. Okay, ill rephrase, I think if you went to any clubs forums after picking up 4 points from 30 - they would have a large section of posters that were calling for the managers head.

This board is often called negative compared to other clubs but as a regular visitor to many myself - you'll find plenty of similarities across the board. 

Posters on this board tend to be long term fans.

In my experience, long term fans are less easily pleased and view events more analytically and objectively than newer, younger supporters.

There are, of course, exceptions to that rule.

 

[Angry_Pirate]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/

So TM says you cant play the back 3 formation against "better teams" - So we play it against Newcastle... okay.

Personally I dont hate the idea of a 4-3-3 (my FIFA Ultimate Team formation ?) but that formation will 100% not work if any of Evans, Smallwood or Bennett are in it.

Maybe he sees Brereton/Samuel as the RW, Travis as the "mobile" holding midfielder with Dack and another in the #8 position. (It wont be Rothwell - Reed would have been nice).

But 4-2-3-1 would also still be working if he chose his best 11.

Get (Bauer) in, a proper #8, and an actual Winger, and we can look at this new formation Tony.

[JacknOry]

5 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

So TM says you cant play the back 3 formation against "better teams" - So we play it against Newcastle... okay.

Personally I dont hate the idea of a 4-3-3 (my FIFA Ultimate Team formation ?) but that formation will 100% not work if any of Evans, Smallwood or Bennett are in it.

Maybe he sees Brereton/Samuel as the RW, Travis as the "mobile" holding midfielder with Dack and another in the #8 position. (It wont be Rothwell - Reed would have been nice).

But 4-2-3-1 would also still be working if he chose his best 11.

Get (Bauer) in, a proper #8, and an actual Winger, and we can look at this new formation Tony.

Perhaps Rodwell would work better in that "mobile" holding role. Then have the hardworking energy of a Travis/Reed next to Dack in the middle. AA and Rothwell on the wings and DG/BB up front. 

                   Rodwell

            Dack       Reed/Travis

Armstrong                    Rothwell

                 Graham/Brereton

[Paul Mani]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Perhaps Rodwell would work better in that "mobile" holding role. Then have the hardworking energy of a Travis/Reed next to Dack in the middle. AA and Rothwell on the wings and DG/BB up front. 

                   Rodwell

            Dack       Reed/Travis

Armstrong                    Rothwell

                 Graham/Brereton

I’d go with that. Can see Rodwell in that role with Evans as back up? But we’d need a good number 8 buying to compliment Travis, Davenport (who he said earlier this week would be better in a three) and Bennett (who I think could play that high energy role. Reed on a permenant might work?

The priority for me is still at CB and CF. Ready to step straight into the first 11.

But I don’t see how Dack fits into a 433.

Front three will consist of Rothwell, Breo, Graham, Chapman and Armstrong surely? Maybe Nuttall.

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, JacknOry said:

I think if you went to any clubs forums after picking up 4 points from 30 - they would have a large section of posters that were far from feeling positive about the situation. 

Too right not long ago a lot of Liverpool fans wanted Klopps nut on a spike although clubs like that are universally followed by clueless armchair fans but I dare anyone to regularly scan Boro, Newcastle, Sunderland forums.   They spin round in circles far quicker than this place, passionate fans will always have strong opinions rightly or wrongly.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I’d go with that. Can see Rodwell in that role with Evans as back up? But we’d need a good number 8 buying to compliment Travis, Davenport (who he said earlier this week would be better in a three) and Bennett (who I think could play that high energy role. Reed on a permenant might work?

The priority for me is still at CB and CF. Ready to step straight into the first 11.

But I don’t see how Dack fits into a 433.

Front three will consist of Rothwell, Breo, Graham, Chapman and Armstrong surely? Maybe Nuttall.

Yeah, I conveniently ignored the defense  - we all know that this is where most of the surgery needs to take place. 

I do believe that we have at least a solid smattering of the right personnel for the remaining positions though. 

Rodwell as a CB has been a failure if you ask me - though its not like he has been trying to fight for a place into a sturdy back four that hardly concedes anyway. i could see him in that role dictating things ala Pirlo (though nowhere near his class).

Dack there, I don't really see why not, he has played CM before in his Gils days. I'd imagine he wouldn't like it though - he's an assists/goals man and will not want to see his numbers diminish. He does say he models his game on Frank Lampard though and he was a very good CM. This formation as TM rightly says does require more goals from your CM's, so he could still chip in with a few.

Reed, doubt he'll come for multiple reasons but we do have Travis as well, Davenport too as you rightly suggested. Buckley coming through as well. Bennets versatility should only be used from the bench going forward in my opinion. 

I think this formation could and should take away our reliance on hoofing it to DG which might work in BB's favor as competition for him as he gets another year older. A more fluid attack that has the pace of the likes of Rothwell, Chapman, or Armstrong behind one of them could be exciting to see. Does it fit in with the normally defensive preferences of TM though? 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

More worrying that he is still basing formations on who he signs, rather than signing players to fit a formation.

I personally read it as 'if i get who I'm after we can change formation' 

[OJRovers]

Mowbray talking about 4-1-4-1 formation, it’s all a pipe dream.

a) you need 2 proper wingers

b) you need 2 proper number 8’s 

c) there’s no place for Dack

d) there’s no way that tony is going to play 1 DM with 5 more forward thinking players in front.

e) where would this leave all of our Wide Strikers who wouldn’t fit that formation.

 

[Angry_Pirate]

Our defense has been shocking, but besides Raya who missed 1 game. The rest have been chopped, injured and changed repeatedly and unnecessarily at times.

Bell - Mulgrew - Lenihan - Nyambe 

As a 4, that team has not played enough matches this year due to injuries to 3 of them at times, the Bell/Williams time share and the Bennett factor. As a 4 they have obviously underperformed individually and collectively but we have ZERO depth behind them as Williams - Rodwell - Magliore - Bennett is just worrying.

Even Maldini - Nesta - Stam - Cafu would struggle if they had Smallwood and Evans "protecting" them and our rubbish tactics.

You could make a case we need 4 new defenders but is the backup players which bring the unit down. 

So much to do this summer, which needs to start now. These last few games need to be trails and tryouts of the young kids and formations... not the old guard parade.

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, Angry_Pirate said:

 

So much to do this summer, which needs to start now. These last few games need to be trails and tryouts of the young kids and formations... not the old guard parade.

Sadly, for all his talk about making changes, I suspect nothing but putting a list of targets together can or will happen until Mowbray has gone off to India in late May for his audience with Madame and persuaded her to release funds for strengthening. By no means a foregone conclusion given their past behaviour infact just having an audience with her is an achievement in itself.

Over the coming 6-8 weeks most clubs will be sorting budgets out and doing the groundwork on free agents and significant signings. We'll be playing catch up then bemoaning the cost of new players when the decent frees have been snapped up.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

After the first 20 games we were on course for the playoffs mate. So what’s your point?

Our points total suggested we may have had a chance of the playoffs but the way we were playing didn't.

[tomphil]

54 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Sadly, for all his talk about making changes, I suspect nothing but putting a list of targets together can or will happen until Mowbray has gone off to India in late May for his audience with Madame and persuaded her to release funds for strengthening. By no means a foregone conclusion given their past behaviour infact just having an audience with her is an achievement in itself.

Over the coming 6-8 weeks most clubs will be sorting budgets out and doing the groundwork on free agents and significant signings. We'll be playing catch up then bemoaning the cost of new players when the decent frees have been snapped up.

There was similar talk last year about signing ready made championship players that quickly turned to I want to give these lads a chance after handing out fresh deals.

Similar talk approaching the January window first about signings to push up forwards if we were in or around the play offs then just strengthening or back ups in general which then turned to we are ok as we are i'm not concerned about defence we've plenty cover..........

Contrast that to when he first came and talked about getting a core group of our own players together and not relying on too many loans and short deal players. Then after relegation he talked about getting in players specifically to get us straight back up as well as keeping others.  He delivered on both those counts but not since so I pay no heed to him now he seems to be just spinning things along telling people what they want to hear.

I suspect it isn't all down to him and there might have been another if it ain't broke why try and fix it mantra behind the scenes again but who knows.  All I know is actions speak louder than words and this summer, starting from now as you say, there needs to be some hard decisive stuff going on.

[USABlue]

On 31/03/2019 at 05:25, Stuart said:

*** Poll is anonymous ***

“Stay”

This is just a bad spell, January is what we are really about and the rest of the season since has been the blip, coincidentally now that we are all but safe. Despite any potential we may have shown early on, mid-table was always the target and injuries rather than bad planning have hampered a better finish. It was important to give the League One side a chance to perform and they have got us to safety. The stats are what they are and they don’t make great reading but we need to look at the bigger picture. Now that Mowbray has learned about his squad capabilities he will deal with this in the Summer and we will have a better season. We just have to keep the faith.

 

“Go”

Time to go T-Mo. Thanks for getting us back into the Championship first time (the minimum expectation) but it’s just not working at this level. We are in the same type of run that we were when you first joined and results are worse. Comparing the last 10 games of each... Coyle (W2D3L5 9pts from 30) v Mowbray (W1D1L8 4pts from 30). If it hadn’t been for a purple patch in January - when an enthusiastic, “pre-Mowbrayed” Lewis Travis burst on to the scene -  we’d be below Rotherham. The sides you pick are one dimensional, you still prefer your favourites at the expense of potential quality because you haven’t addressed glaring problems during the last four windows, and I’ve no faith you will do anything differently after the next one.

 

Or some variation but your reasoning isn’t necessarily required.

Stay or Go...

Stuart you nailed it with the go bit.  Talk about a stubborn man.  We have creativity, we have quality but he won't use it. GO.  These last few games.are.a.perfect time.to blood one or two of the top end youngsters will he, will he f@#$.  When he does he seems to coach the enthusiasm right out if em, look at Travis now compared to when he first came into the team.  Yeah far too positive for our Tony.  Like the guy but not his management of our.beloved Football team. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by USABlue

[SBlue]

21 hours ago, OJRovers said:

Mowbray talking about 4-1-4-1 formation, it’s all a pipe dream.

a) you need 2 proper wingers

b) you need 2 proper number 8’s 

c) there’s no place for Dack

d) there’s no way that tony is going to play 1 DM with 5 more forward thinking players in front.

e) where would this leave all of our Wide Strikers who wouldn’t fit that formation.

 

Disagree here. 

It's just an evolution of our current formation but playing one DM and aiming to attack/keep the ball in the opposition half as the main form of defence.

Dack and Rothwell are ideal for the two attacking central players. Both can keep the ball well and knock it about, Dack makes the runs into the box and Rothwell has the legs to get up and down without asking him to defend with the positional nous required out wide.

Wide forwards cut inside and should roam a bit just like in a 4-2-3-1 - players like Thomas Muller and Alexis Sanchez (don't bring up our relative ability please!) have played well in this formation and they really aren't "proper wingers".

A lot still rests on the full-backs getting up and down and on the lone DM being able to be very disciplined sitting and have the ability to move the ball well in the right direction - I think Travis could do it well with discipline, a Reed would be ideal, and some would argue it's potentially somewhere for Mulgrew but I don't think he has the legs left.

I'm intrigued by it anyway, it's not a massive revolution to what we are already doing - just a bit braver with the personnel.

Edited April 4, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[rigger]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Disagree here. 

It's just an evolution of our current formation but playing one DM and aiming to attack/keep the ball in the opposition half as the main form of defence.

Dack and Rothwell are ideal for the two attacking central players. Both can keep the ball well and knock it about, Dack makes the runs into the box and Rothwell has the legs to get up and down without asking him to defend with the positional nous required out wide.

Wide forwards cut inside and should roam a bit just like in a 4-2-3-1 - players like Thomas Muller and Alexis Sanchez (don't bring up our relative ability please!) have played well in this formation and they really aren't "proper wingers".

A lot still rests on the full-backs getting up and down and on the lone DM being able to be very disciplined sitting and have the ability to move the ball well in the right direction - I think Travis could do it, a Reed would be ideal, some would argue it's potentially somewhere for Mulgrew but I don't think he has the legs left.

I'm intrigued by it anyway, it's not a massive revolution to what we are already doing - just a bit braver with the personnel.

So it does not address the problem of our crap defence

[SBlue]

13 minutes ago, rigger said:

So it does not address the problem of our crap defence

Not without signings, no.

Lately we could've played 10 at the back and not got a clean sheet.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

Disagree here. 

It's just an evolution of our current formation but playing one DM and aiming to attack/keep the ball in the opposition half as the main form of defence.

Dack and Rothwell are ideal for the two attacking central players. Both can keep the ball well and knock it about, Dack makes the runs into the box and Rothwell has the legs to get up and down without asking him to defend with the positional nous required out wide.

Wide forwards cut inside and should roam a bit just like in a 4-2-3-1 - players like Thomas Muller and Alexis Sanchez (don't bring up our relative ability please!) have played well in this formation and they really aren't "proper wingers".

A lot still rests on the full-backs getting up and down and on the lone DM being able to be very disciplined sitting and have the ability to move the ball well in the right direction - I think Travis could do it well with discipline, a Reed would be ideal, and some would argue it's potentially somewhere for Mulgrew but I don't think he has the legs left.

I'm intrigued by it anyway, it's not a massive revolution to what we are already doing - just a bit braver with the personnel.

If that is his plan would you agree it should be from now? No need to wait.

[SBlue]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

If that is his plan would you agree it should be from now? No need to wait.

Yeah I would. 

If we did - I don't know how many on here would be prepared to give TM some slack if we look disorganised or as though we are still working it out... Don't expect it to solve anything defensively without a better centre half partner for Lenihan, either. Might be damned if we do, damned if we don't.

But it would be exciting enough for me.

Edited April 4, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Yeah I would. 

If we did - I don't know how many on here would be prepared to give TM some slack if we look disorganised or as though we are still working it out... Don't expect it to solve anything defensively without a better centre half partner for Lenihan, either. Might be damned if we do, damned if we don't.

But it would be exciting enough for me.

I personally disagree with that particular formation solely because I think it would limit the effectiveness of our best player.

That being said, I would at least appreciate the fact that hes tangibly looking forward, obviously assuming it doesnt involve shoehorning the likes of Bennett in for the sake of it.

I dont think the problem lies within the formation, my suggested changes fall within a 4231. We need to start games on the front foot, 6 (?) goals at home in the first half is an embarrassing stat over 19 games. Id like to see us think about how we can be proactive and hurt other teams, rather than constantly fall back to players who whilst work hard dont contribute nearly enough going forward or even provide anywhere near the level of defensive support that the manager likes to think. Rothwell and Chapman wide please. Also think Rodwell could be a big asset in his best position. Give him a run in central midfield with the view to giving him a longer deal as a more important player.

Back to my point. We shouldnt wait until pre season, essentially we have an extended pre season with promotion/play offs impossible, relegation incredibly unlikely and crucially, the current way of working failing miserably.

[CD_93]

Haven't voted in this one yet. But I will do upon seeing Saturday's teamsheet.

[Blue blood]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Not sure I buy the "we've got mid table/survival  and consolidation was what we were aiming for so all's good" argument. 

Let's say you hire me to drive you to the airport. The first half of the journey is great, and I even know a few shortcuts so we're getting there quicker than you had hoped. But then half way through I suddenly have a few near misses with other cars, almost cause collisions, run a couple of red lights, and don't use my mirrors. No harm happens, but it's hairy. Not only that after the first near miss I acknowledge I need to watch the traffic better, pay more attention, and check my mirrors, but then continue to do none of that, and the journey continues into chaos, but fortunately no damage. Oh, and I have glasses to help me see the road better, but I only put them on when I'm struggling. You're telling me you'd get in the car with me again after that? What confidence would you have for me to get you safely back from the airport when you need a ride home? 

Which is why TM must go. Not because this season we're not where we should be but because of the manner of it. The 4 points out of 30. The blind stupidity of only having 3 injury prone centre backs on the books. The exclusion of Rothwell, and to a lesser extent Chapman, the continuation of favourites in the side regardless of how well they play, The only having 3 genuine goal threats in the team. The awful interviews of absolute horse manure (like Mulgrew's hamstring went because I shouted at him being my favourite). Wasting £7 million on Bereton, Not signing players who fit a system, I ask on what basis can there be confidence that TM is going to do better next season? Give him a transfer window to sort it out? He's not sorting out the little things he can adjust week to week. He's not adjusted anything in the last 2 transfer windows. 

 The only argument with any validity as I see it to TM staying is they'll get someone worse and that's a genuine fear and possibility imo. But let's not confuse that with TM being a good manager. A decent bloke possibly, though his comments of late have got me wobbling a bit on that. A good manager - not a chance. 

Perhaps should have posted this in this thread instead. Why TM should go. 

[CD_93]

2 hours ago, CD_93 said:

Haven't voted in this one yet. But I will do upon seeing Saturday's teamsheet.

No longer need to wait.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17551818.rothwell-ahead-of-chapman-in-rovers-pecking-order-mowbray/?c=p8ahz

Quote

Joe Rothwell deserves to play in front of Harry Chapman at this moment on the left wing.

Tells me all I need to know about Saturday's team and the team for the rest of the season. "There was a starman playing on the right but he's destined to play on the left but won't now because of that other chap I haven't been playing all season."

I have willed and wished and prayed for Mowbray to do well here. But I can't make sense of his decision making any more. Absolute bollocks - but I still hope I'm wrong.

Edited April 4, 2019 by CD_93

[blueboy3333]

Bizarre interview. He won't play Chapman because he would take the place of Rothwell, who doesn't play anyway.

The man is an idiot. 

[USABlue]

On 01/04/2019 at 06:26, Mellor Rover said:

Here? Or in his career? 

Bowyer should have had that squad top 2 never mind top 6.

Bowyer definately underachieved.