Mowbray: Stay or go?

[Husky]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Where are they coming from ?

If it was just the 7 points.

I would go for QPR away. Win.

Bolton at home shoe-in.

Then a draw last game of the season home to Swansea.

[Blue blood]

I said 6 points the other day. Draws Vs Stoke, Swansea and QPR win Vs Bolton. No point from Stoke game but QPR is winnable and Derby/Forest are inconsistent so will stick with 6. 

[joey_big_nose]

I'm pretty lenient compared to most in terms of when to sack a manager, but Mowbray has definitely jumped the shark now. The risk of carrying this terrible form into next season is too high, he looks out of ideas, the defence is absolutely shocking and his transfers have been poor.

I can't really see how we keep him tbh.

[47er]

8 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

 These are human qualities, not football knowhow. And here his track record isn’t so great. Stubbornness in adversity has sunk much greater men than Mowbray. 

And women! Thinking of Theresa here!!   

[47er]

That selection on Saturday was the last straw for me. That line-up has failed over and over again so why believe something would change against Stoke?

To leave out Travis and Reed from the starting line-up is beyond belief.

Mowbray has lost it and won't find it again with us.

Carrying too much baggage now.

We have some attractive attacking players, our defence is crap. A few decent signings in summer and we are ready to go. 

However Mowbray is not the man to carry it through.

[JPTSwindon]

We have the budget (and nucleus of a squad) to be competitive - no excuse for the Mowbray misery this season.

The Lincoln managers for me please - steady, impressive progress for them. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by JPTSwindon

[Bbrovers2288]

I find it even more depressing that there is no murmurs that mowbray is under pressure to turn things around and fast. So I guess we just accept sub standards now. Doesn’t look like he is going anywhere unfortunately 

[SBlue]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

So if anything Mowbray is accumulated points at a slower rate after spending well over 10m over 4 windows.

Commence massive boring rant:

Is 10m really that much in the Champ anymore?

Above us, there’s probably only Preston that have spent less this season.

Consider too the last few years where we have been effectively asset stripped. The budget is (crazily, I know) relatively poor or at least relatively modest to rebuild a decent championship squad in this day and age.

Therefore I don’t think that the raw numbers are something to hang TM by... 

Correct me if I’m wrong there.

BUT it seems that what he’s had he’s spent on players that he doesn’t trust to play yet, neglecting the weaker areas with pricey young prospects that can only really be judged as sound investments in the next two or three years.

The idea and intention is commendable, but it’s obvious that we have bigger, more immediate personnel issues that need sorting out just to keep us competitive.

BUT at the start of this season, we had a team still playing well, used to winning. I don’t think I was alone in thinking that we just needed a few tweaks and a bit more quality.

Like TM, I didn’t think it wise to overly disrupt the squad.

I’ve got a bad case of 50/50 hindsight in the last couple of months.

I was naive.

Our (very) purple patch couldn’t have come at a worse time too.

After the Hull game in January I still didn’t think we needed anyone at all - we were looking a good candidate for the best of the rest at least - punching above our weight with the odd blip. A match for anyone on our day.

Rodwell was looking like he’d make sure Downing would never see the home dressing room again and that Mulgrew wouldn’t even see the pitch. Armstrong looking the steal of the season.

I also didn’t think it was prudent to throw money or top wages around when we were going steady enough and still in a transitional, project building stage. 

Although obviously the rumours were exciting but ultimately, a bit of a let down (cheers @Madon you dick ?)

 

I still don’t know when I’ll ever consider big contracts or spending on anyone over 25 a sensible idea anymore. 

Our financial record and literal survival as a club is still resting on a Venky whim.

It’s just all gone massively tits up on the pitch though and I don’t know how it’s going to be solved.

I thought Stoke was the game to turn it around again. They’re not all that. We could out fight them, earn our luck like we did earlier in the season. We beat a few teams by wanting it more.

But that fight and belief has disappeared. The desire that made our players play above themselves just got up and left spectacularly sometime during the Brentford game.

I’ve been in denial about that and I don’t know how we get it back.

And without it, our players and squad are exposed for what they actually are.

Pretty fucking shit.

3 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I need to see some changes Tony cause it’s not working, do something with youngsters, personnel or formation. You have options, and we need to see a plan B. Use the Category A academy for gods sake.

100% this. This needs to be our focus. So many of our best players of the last few years are the ones we’ve produced ourselves.

Mowbray has signed young players, talks about using the academy lads... gives a lot of debuts... but also considers 24 year olds like Rothwell relative footballing babies.

5 years before Buckley is starting anyone?

Frustrating.

 

Mowbray needs to be brave on the pitch again.

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

It's happened throughout his career at other clubs where he has inevitably been given the sack because of poor results, and we seem to have reached that point with him now. 

I remember on Tugay Day when the WBA fans were wearing their Mogga masks. Comfortably relegated but singing his name regardless because he still wanted to play a spectacularly over-confident brand of exciting, attacking football and instil that philosophy into the club.

 

What happened to that man? 

Did that relegation scar him?

Is he under achieving here?

 

Or is it the fact that 90% of our players are absolutely fucking shite and we are still a shell of the club that we once were.

 

Jury’s still out.

I’m being careful what I wish for.

 

I think it would take a miracle worker to turn the bones of this squad into a contender within a season or so, this league is so tough and we are so crap.

I feel that amount of surgery, investment, risk and trust that we’d have to have in the owners means that we could easily go backwards yet again.

 

I suppose... to sum up...

Let’s just see how we do in the next six games.

Make or break.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[roversfan99]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Commence massive boring rant:

Is 10m really that much in the Champ anymore?

Above us, there’s probably only Preston that have spent less this season.

Consider too the last few years where we have been effectively asset stripped. The budget is (crazily, I know) relatively poor or at least relatively modest to rebuild a decent championship squad in this day and age.

Therefore I don’t think that the raw numbers are something to hang TM by... 

Correct me if I’m wrong there.

BUT it seems that what he’s had he’s spent on players that he doesn’t trust to play yet, neglecting the weaker areas with pricey young prospects that can only really be judged as sound investments in the next two or three years.

The idea and intention is commendable, but it’s obvious that we have bigger, more immediate personnel issues that need sorting out just to keep us competitive.

BUT at the start of this season, we had a team still playing well, used to winning. I don’t think I was alone in thinking that we just needed a few tweaks and a bit more quality.

Like TM, I didn’t think it wise to overly disrupt the squad.

I’ve got a bad case of 50/50 hindsight in the last couple of months.

I was naive.

Our (very) purple patch couldn’t have come at a worse time too.

After the Hull game in January I still didn’t think we needed anyone at all - we were looking a good candidate for the best of the rest at least - punching above our weight with the odd blip. A match for anyone on our day.

Rodwell was looking like he’d make sure Downing would never see the home dressing room again and that Mulgrew wouldn’t even see the pitch. Armstrong looking the steal of the season.

I also didn’t think it was prudent to throw money or top wages around when we were going steady enough and still in a transitional, project building stage. 

Although obviously the rumours were exciting but ultimately, a bit of a let down (cheers @Madon you dick ?)

 

I still don’t know when I’ll ever consider big contracts or spending on anyone over 25 a sensible idea anymore. 

Our financial record and literal survival as a club is still resting on a Venky whim.

It’s just all gone massively tits up on the pitch though and I don’t know how it’s going to be solved.

I thought Stoke was the game to turn it around again. They’re not all that. We could out fight them, earn our luck like we did earlier in the season. We beat a few teams by wanting it more.

But that fight and belief has disappeared. The desire that made our players play above themselves just got up and left spectacularly sometime during the Brentford game.

I’ve been in denial about that and I don’t know how we get it back.

And without it, our players and squad are exposed for what they actually are.

Pretty fucking shit.

100% this. This needs to be our focus. So many of our best players of the last few years are the ones we’ve produced ourselves.

Mowbray has signed young players, talks about using the academy lads... gives a lot of debuts... but also considers 24 year olds like Rothwell relative footballing babies.

5 years before Buckley is starting anyone?

Frustrating.

 

Mowbray needs to be brave on the pitch again.

I remember on Tugay Day when the WBA fans were wearing their Mogga masks. Comfortably relegated but singing his name regardless because he still wanted to play a spectacularly over-confident brand of exciting, attacking football and instil that philosophy into the club.

 

What happened to that man? 

Did that relegation scar him?

Is he under achieving here?

 

Or is it the fact that 90% of our players are absolutely fucking shite and we are still a shell of the club that we once were.

 

Jury’s still out.

I’m being careful what I wish for.

 

I think it would take a miracle worker to turn the bones of this squad into a contender within a season or so, this league is so tough and we are so crap.

I feel that amount of surgery, investment, risk and trust that we’d have to have in the owners means that we could easily go backwards yet again.

 

I suppose... to sum up...

Let’s just see how we do in the next six games.

Make or break.

 

 

Yes it is especially when its impossible to suggest that the recruitment has improved us based on last season. 10m coupled with a very competitive wage budget and it belittles those whose main argument is that Mowbray deserves the summer to fix the problems, when history suggests he is incapable of doing that. The summer cannot be defended, to sign a striker for such a sum who has 0 goals is indefensible regardless as to the stage of his development hes at, Armstrong did have a superb January but it was the exception in an otherwise dissapointing season, and he signed players like Rothwell and now Chapman who he has no trust in regardless of how much his favourites let him down. And Rodwell has been misused to cover up defensive negligence, or try to anyway.

Its not just Preston, there are teams like Hull, Bristol City. You look at teams like Sheffield United, they spent probably summer but massively improved their starting 11 with it, what wed give for an Egan, Norwood and McGoldrick. Theres no point signing younger players if you never play them anyway.

[Mattyblue]

Yes £10 million is a lot of money for non parachute clubs in this league.

[tomphil]

There were similar comments on the football about Coyle and his promotion with Burnley plus their time in the Prem briefly back then and his brand of that type of football disappeared when he engineered his judas flit to Bolton never to be seen again.

I guess some of it might come down to what they are told is expected of them from those employing them.  Here at the moment I very much think it's a case of plod along playing a few peoples players, blood a few youngsters, give people games to get value in them and sell a few for good money along the way and it'll be fine.  Oh the owners would like promotion but say the right things and do as you're asked and they'll understand especially if you can produce players to sell to cover the finances in the meantime.

This summer will either reinforce this or blow it out the water !

 

[blueboy3333]

Spending £10m in the Championship without selling anyone is rare. Spending it without selling anyone or receiving  parachute payments is practically unheard of. On top of all that, spending it after promotion from L1 having just lost £17m must be unique. 

Mowbray had been very fortunate in the backing he's received. Pity he wasted most of it. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by blueboy3333

[benhben]

7 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Spending £10m in the Championship without selling anyone is rare. Spending it without selling anyone or receiving  parachute payments is practically unheard of. On top of all that, spending it after promotion from L1 having just lost £17m must be unique. 

Mowbray had been very fortunate in the backing he's received. Pity he wasted most of it. 

In addition to then spending it on players who then can't make the first 11 

[tomphil]

11 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Spending £10m in the Championship without selling anyone is rare. Spending it without selling anyone or receiving  parachute payments is practically unheard of. On top of all that, spending it after promotion from L1 having just lost £17m must be unique. 

Mowbray had been very fortunate in the backing he's received. Pity he wasted most of it. 

Tying it up in a 19 year old who isn't ready for your first team and hasn't been signed for any real purpose in it because you don't know where to play him anyway is completely unheard of when a team has just come up and desperately needs investment elsewhere to be completely sure it'll stay up.

As a couple of Preston fans scoffed at me last weekend when asking what that signing was all about because they thought he was crap " that's just typical Rovers under Venkys they do everything others wouldn't then wonder why it keeps going tits up" !!!

[blueboy3333]

“I think we’ve been playing well but just can’t turn that in to points" - Raya

? Sweet Jesus!!

[DE.]

Probably what Mowbray is telling them tbh. If the players think that these levels of performance are acceptable then no wonder we aren't improving.

[Pedro]

10 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

“I think we’ve been playing well but just can’t turn that in to points" - Raya

? Sweet Jesus!!

Is it any wonder we are getting beaten if they genuinely think that they are playing well?

[JHRover]

20 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

The 'Jack Rodwell Experiment' this season has been a disaster for Mowbray and letting our 1 and only natural senior CB leave without giving him a chance was just obscene, Mowbrays tactics, decision making and transfers(and general verbal diarrhea) have all been awful this year, That said i do think that he has done enough to warrant one more summer transfer window to see if he can turn things around.

It all comes back to Mowbray over-complicating things. I accept his footballing knowledge is vastly superior to ours but sometimes there's merit to be had in keeping the game simple and straightforward.

Consistency in tactics, selection, systems, everyone knows where they are and what they are meant to do and can focus on doing it better. Instead I've no idea what to expect from one week to the next and can't believe the players really do.

You need a new CB so sign one. Instead we sign a CM and experiment with converting him into a CB whilst he is on a 1 year deal and free to leave soon. We are short at CB so allow our only proven CB to go out on loan and instead attempt to convert a poor LB into a CB. We try to be clever by moving Elliott Bennett through 5-6 different positions on a match by match basis either out of determination to find somewhere in the team for him or to try and prove a point about how brilliantly versatile he is. We sign an assortment of attacking midfield players and forwards and then deploy them out wide - Armstrong, Antonsson, Brereton.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

 A few of us on here came in for a fair amount of stick at the end of last season. We were the people who whilst thoroughly enjoying having something to shout about regarding Rovers for once in a long time were less than impressed as to the manner promotion was achieved. The way we seemed to only play for 45 minute in nearly every game. The way we seemed to struggle to impose ourselves physically on the opposition and only got through lots of games because of our superior skill level. The way we seemed to start most games in a really casual and laid back style. The lack of real input from most of our new signings.

Of course we were told to " Get with the Programme ", " In Tony we trust " and other such waffle.

I thought it was pretty obvious that we needed 3 or 4 new players that would go straight into the first team right away  and stay there. When these players didn't arrive and the only real reinforcement was a loan player I was really concerned. Some how we managed to get through to January accumulating a fair amount of points albeit having taken some bangings on the way. Since then my fears as to the majority of the squad not being anything like good enough have been realised. We look a rag tag collection of players who've only just met on the car park half an hour before the game. 

At the moment we are playing like we are the worst team in the league, there's no doubt about that. If we played Ipswich on Tuesday I wouldn't fancy us to win and they are going to be relegated. That tells me all I need to know.

Football is a results based game and we aren't getting any. The final responsibility for this state of affairs has to lie at the feet of the manager. It's come to the point were I have to say - " Tony Mowbray, You're fired ! "

Edited April 8, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JHRover]

Sadly if we aren't there already then we're getting there. 1 win in 11 is dreadful. By Saturday night I'd be pleasantly surprised if it isn't 1 win in 13.

Was looking last night at his pre-sacking/resignation runs at Middlesbrough and Coventry.

At Middlesbrough in season 2013-14 they started off with 2 wins from their opening 12 league games and he was sacked despite being a club legend. Before then he'd had them pushing for the play-offs and was worshipped by their fans but they accepted time was up.

At Coventry in season 2016-17 they started off with 0 wins from their opening 10 league games and he walked. Before then they'd been in promotion contention and was liked.

We're now in very similar territory. A shame but this is clearly not the first time he's done this and it has ended in his departure.

Turning this around is not going to be easy. I might have more confidence had I something to cling on to - if we were playing enjoyable football, were defensively strong or scoring plenty of goals but there's none of that.

Ideally it is see how the next 6 go and then make a decision after that on the basis of what happens but the way things are going we might not be in a position to wait that long.

[Mercer]

53 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

 A few of us on here came in for a fair amount of stick at the end of last season. We were the people who whilst thoroughly enjoying having something to shout about regarding Rovers for once in a long time were less than impressed as to the manner promotion was achieved. The way we seemed to only play for 45 minute in nearly every game. The way we seemed to struggle to impose ourselves physically on the opposition and only got through lots of games because of our superior skill level. The way we seemed to start most games in a really casual and laid back style. The lack of real input from most of our new signings.

Of course we were told to " Get with the Programme ", " In Tony we trust " and other such waffle.

I thought it was pretty obvious that we needed 3 or 4 new players that would go straight into the first team right away  and stay there. When these players didn't arrive and the only real reinforcement was a loan player I was really concerned. Some how we managed to get through to January accumulating a fair amount of points albeit having taken some bangings on the way. Since then my fears as to the majority of the squad not being anything like good enough have been realised. We look a rag tag collection of players who've only just met on the car park half an hour before the game. 

At the moment we are playing like we are the worst team in the league, there's no doubt about that. If we played Ipswich on Tuesday I wouldn't fancy us to win and they are going to be relegated. That tells me all I need to know.

Football is a results based game and we aren't getting any. The final responsibility for this state of affairs has to lie at the feet of the manager. It's come to the point were I have to say - " Tony Mowbray, You're fired ! "

Spot on.

I've had reservations about Mowbray since the day he arrived and posted as such.

• Brought in with the objective of keeping us up (his words at Blues a few weeks ago) - failed
• Think we got lucky so many times last season in a p$ss poor league despite being the best resourced club
• From what I've seen, I think we are physically / mentally unfit (other teams seem two yards quicker all over the park and are at it for 90+ minutes), disorganised (how many times do we change formation in the first 15 / 20 minutes of a game), tactically inept (hoofball doesn't count in my book), poor in game management (so many late goals), play cr@p football with no identity or sign of a pattern of play evolving and consistently fail to get the best out of what we've got (square pegs / round holes).
• Think we have a mystifying and poor player trading record with £10million+ spunked away in the summer (Brereton, Armstrong, Davenport).  Too many Harts and Gladwins and what the hell was the signing of Chapman about over two months ago.

I think as a playing unit, we are now back to the Kean, C o y l e eras.  For me, there is no longer any enjoyment in watching Rovers.

I can't think of a single reason to keep Mowbray a minute longer.  Coming across as a 'nice guy' with self purported values and anecdotes about his wife's lemon drizzle cake doesn't cut it for me.  We owe him nothing - he's been paid a king's ransom for his time here;  arguably, he was on the football scrap heap until Senior brought him in.

In my opinion, the sooner we see Mowbray, Venus, Lowe and Benson walking down the road the better.  I also think Waggott and Cheston should follow them;  I think Waggott's act of extending Mowbray's contract was sheer folly and said so at the time.

I think our club is still in one helluva a mess but if you have a half decent football manager at the helm, at least you have some hope and a decent chance.   

Edited April 8, 2019 by Mercer

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Who was it said in sport -  " Nice guys come last " ?

[Songman]

I really can't weigh up his desire to make so many changes to the team so frequently. Young Tyler Magloire did well for 2 games and doesn't even make the bench now, for me if your playing well you keep your place or at least make bench. The other lad is it Buckley? Impressed at Sheff wed, hasn't been seen since. There's a lot to be said for a settled team. Horrible thing to say, but the model you need to follow if not spending millions of pounds is that of Burnley 2013/2014 when Dyche was going 10 games at a time without changing his starting 11.

[K-Hod]

No matter what happens, he seems to go back to his favourites. It often doesn't seem to be a meritocracy and I don't think that's particularly good for morale....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Songman said:

I really can't weigh up his desire to make so many changes to the team so frequently. Young Tyler Magloire did well for 2 games and doesn't even make the bench now, for me if your playing well you keep your place or at least make bench. The other lad is it Buckley? Impressed at Sheff wed, hasn't been seen since. There's a lot to be said for a settled team. Horrible thing to say, but the model you need to follow if not spending millions of pounds is that of Burnley 2013/2014 when Dyche was going 10 games at a time without changing his starting 11.

That's a good example. They had the same team, same pattern of play, the only change they'd make would be to to 4-4-2 at home and 4-4-1-1 away. Each player knew what to do in any given situation and they knew what any team mate would do also.

A team of well drilled and organised average  players will beat a team of thrown together stars 9 times out of 10.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces