Mowbray: Stay or go?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Sounds like if he hadn’t had by chance got a start against us this time two years ago he’s never have been signed.

Reckless way to spend considerable club dosh, no?

I can't believe we spent that sort of money without him being regularly scouted for half a dozen games at least. As the Forest guy is alleged to have said - " Have you found a position that suits him yet ? " He's not robust enough to play up front and he's not quick enough to play out wide. Maybe we need to do a " reverse Fred Pickering " and convert him to a left back !

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I can't believe we spent that sort of money without him being regularly scouted for half a dozen games at least. As the Forest guy is alleged to have said - " Have you found a position that suits him yet ? " He's not robust enough to play up front and he's not quick enough to play out wide. Maybe we need to do a " reverse Fred Pickering " and convert him to a left back !

If he learns how to get himself fouls, instead of convincing the ref he is diving, he may turn into a decent striker. 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

Best manager we’ve had for quite a while, obviously has his faults but a decent manager.

Which in my opinion tells you just our cr@p our management has been over recent times.

I think you are being kind calling him 'decent' - just what facet of his management do you class as 'decent'?

If you are prepared to accept 'mediocrity' - and I don't think Mowbray is even that - then you will regress. 

[Mercer]

15 hours ago, Stuart said:

True enough.

He also struck gold with Dack.

But bombed big time with Brereton.  Too many Joe Averages, Harts and Gladwins.  Apart from Rothwell, I think he spunked £10million+ away last summer on Brereton, Armstrong and Davenport.

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

11 hours ago, Mercer said:

The comparisons are as football managers.

Mowbray was brought in just over two years to keep us up (his words).  He failed.  If he had kept us up, our position today is only marginally better than it would have been then.  Therefore, our club has barely progressed.

Tactically and player trading wise, there is hardly any difference between the three.

Mowbray's comments and excuses, IMO, are now very similar to the desperate days of Kean and C o y l e.

I don't give a feck about Mowbray's 'nice guy' image, his values or his wife's lemon drizzle cake.

The bottom line is Mowbray is handsomely paid to improve and progress the footballing side of the club.  IMO, we are now regressing, our football, in the main, is dire, our recent results have been appalling and the thousands and thousands of empty seats is an embarrassment. 

In my book he has to go and quick as I think we are going nowhere other than downwards.

He failed to keep us up, but whilst delivering a points per game ratio which would have had us near the play offs over a full season! Perhaps that's still a failure, but not particularly good evidence for the guy being a bad manager! Not to mention that his team got promoted with nearly 100 points last season. 

You're right that he should be judged on the bottom line. That's why I think it's madness to put him in the same bracket as the worst managers in our history on the basis of a couple of months of (really) bad form and some overly conservative selections in midfield. 

Couldn't agree more about the empty seats. Somehow I think Mowbray is pretty far down the list of people who can be held responsible for that.

[DE.]

Just now, Mercer said:

But bombed big time with Brereton.  Too many Joe Averages, Harts and Gladwins.  Apart from Rothwell, I think he spunked £10million+ away last summer on Brereton, Armstrong and Davenport.

In fairness for £1.75m Armstrong has been an OK signing. He still has a lot to improve on but there is some raw talent there, and he's contributed decently enough despite being played repeatedly out of position on the left wing. In fact I'd say during our January run of wins Armstrong was our most important player, with multiple goals/assists. Without that we might be looking at a relegation battle right now, so even though I've been critical of Armstrong in the past I wouldn't put him in the category of bad signing.

For me our worst signings, Brereton aside, weren't who we brought in but who we offered new contracts. Those are going to become an albatross around our neck in the next couple of seasons. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Armstrong has been a great signing. Decent fee, good amount of goals and hasn't ever shown a sign of discontent or off field trouble. He's a steady little player with good potential for resale.

He is one of Tony's better signings

[Mattyblue]

The empty seats thing is a red herring.

We will finish with an average attendance of around 14,500 which give or take a few hundred either way is pretty standard for us in this league post 2012 (Coyle season aside).

Venky’s are to blame for the thousands of empty seats.

 

[tomphil]

34 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Which in my opinion tells you just our cr@p our management has been over recent times.

I think you are being kind calling him 'decent' - just what facet of his management do you class as 'decent'?

If you are prepared to accept 'mediocrity' - and I don't think Mowbray is even that - then you will regress. 

When they took Coyle on and he began to weave his magic we'd all have jumped at mediocrity !

Now though with still a half decent squad that needs some proper work on it and the RIGHT investment and the host of promising young players it is time to be looking beyond that.  I don't think it's correct to write him off as outright rubbish because he isn't but if I was the owners id be setting out a reasonable set of expectations for next season and budget to match and a serious review of his position after 10 games.

Doubt they will though it'll be more of the same they'll probably think it's in good hands and ignore it again most of this summer so that won't make his job any easier we have to remember what any gaffer at Ewood is dealing with above him. Also if I was him I'd set out a reasonable set of requests to them and if they aren't met or I was making a balls of it after 10 games i'd do the decent thing.

Edit :   10 games could turn into 5 very easily !

Edited April 12, 2019 by tomphil

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Armstrong has been a great signing. Decent fee, good amount of goals and hasn't ever shown a sign of discontent or off field trouble. He's a steady little player with good potential for resale.

He is one of Tony's better signings

Not sure I'd say a great signing and I'd also say a return of 4 goals is rather disappointing, he's really only had one good month all season. There is undoubted ability with Armstrong (unlike Brereton) but next season is an important one for him he needs to bulk up over the summer and bring more end product to his game to show that he is a good Championship player rather than just a very good League 1 player.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Ewood Ace

[Bigdoggsteel]

Armstrong frustrates the hell out of me. He reminds me of Shane Long. Both are quick, Long is stronger and better in the air, Armstrong the better finisher,  but they both suffer from the same condition where the more time they have in front of goal to think about what to do, the worse they do. Not ideal for a striker. 

I find Armstrong's body language and work rate pretty questionable at times too. Which is why I find Mowbarys comments about him v say Rothwell to be odd. I don't see a huge difference defensively. 

As said by @ewoodace above, he really just had one good month. A really good month, which was more than plenty of others in the squad. I just have my doubts if he will ever be consistent at this level. 

[unsall]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Which in my opinion tells you just our cr@p our management has been over recent times.

I think you are being kind calling him 'decent' - just what facet of his management do you class as 'decent'?

If you are prepared to accept 'mediocrity' - and I don't think Mowbray is even that - then you will regress. 

Think I’m being realistic more than mediocrity, who would your kind of manager be, taking into budgets etc, think he’s a very knowledgeable guy,but sometimes overthinks things and worries too much about the opposition, but like I said decent manager, and realises he needs to replace 4/5 players next season.

Hopefully he gets time to get them in, and progress again next season.

[Don Said]

Arma's got loads of ability but his composure is often crap.

Often tries to absolutely leather it, which is annoying as we've seen on a number of occasions he has the ability to buy himself a yard and guide the ball in to the corner. But that said he's a striker by trade and is playing deeper and wider than he's used to which gives him more to think about, maybe supressing his instict abit. Most of his shots are from well outside the area too so he might be blasting it to compensate. Might not be the case but it's a reasonable theory.

If he's to continue playing as a 'wide striker' maybe he'll improve on the above with time and coaching, he's still young.

[Mercer]

Think Armstrong has one asset and that's his pace.

IMO, does not have a football brain and has a very poor touch.

Think we paid way, way over the top at £1.75million - as far as I could see, we were the only club in for him at that price which tells you something.

IMO, not a championship player.

[Mattyblue]

It always seems to take Armstrong an extra split second to get his shot off, which means they are often blocked.

Another difference from League 1.

[Don Said]

Just now, Mercer said:

Think Armstrong has one asset and that's his pace.

IMO, does not have a football brain and has a very poor touch.

Think we paid way, way over the top at £1.75million - as far as I could see, we were the only club in for him at that price which tells you something.

IMO, not a championship player.

At the time of signing he was a 21 year old forward, with 40ish league one and championship goals under his belt, also played and scored at every level for England up to u21's.

All opinions but I wouldn't say paying £1.75m with that record and further development potential in today's market is anywhere near over the top.

 

[BankEnd Rover]

11 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think Armstrong has one asset and that's his pace.

IMO, does not have a football brain and has a very poor touch.

Think we paid way, way over the top at £1.75million - as far as I could see, we were the only club in for him at that price which tells you something.

IMO, not a championship player.

Agreed. His touch is awful if which i find sometime very lucky if it sits for him - His pace is his only Positive...The rest i find very average if not below.

[Mercer]

Just now, Don Said said:

At the time of signing he was a 21 year old forward, with 40ish league one and championship goals under his belt, also played and scored at every level for England up to u21's.

All opinions but I wouldn't say paying £1.75m with that record and further development potential in today's market is anywhere near over the top.

 

Didn't Jason Lowe captain England U21's!?  Enough said.

For that money, we could have signed the likes of Pukki with plenty of change left over.  Also, think Brum paid less than Armstrong's fee for Adams.

Just feel for £1.75m we could have done much, much better.

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think Armstrong has one asset and that's his pace.

IMO, does not have a football brain and has a very poor touch.

Think we paid way, way over the top at £1.75million - as far as I could see, we were the only club in for him at that price which tells you something.

IMO, not a championship player.

He definitely does not have a poor touch, in fact ive seen him numerous times pluck a ball out of the air and stop it dead.

Also, Alex Neil said after he came here that he had done so choosing us over Preston so thats not true either.

I dont think hes offered enough and I think hed be better placed on the right rather than the left as he can use his pace to go on the outside. His decision making is a major downfall.

God knows what Mowbray sees to seperate him and Rothwell defensively either.

[tomphil]

19 minutes ago, Don Said said:

At the time of signing he was a 21 year old forward, with 40ish league one and championship goals under his belt, also played and scored at every level for England up to u21's.

All opinions but I wouldn't say paying £1.75m with that record and further development potential in today's market is anywhere near over the top.

 

I'd say the price is about right he's only a couple of years older than Brereton and he already has some lower league pedigree, plenty goals and a bit of experience. He has a visible asset in pace and has demonstrated that on a good day he can play on the wing, up front and a wide striker role.

Compared to BB then at 1.75 before add ons he is the type of player they should be taking a punt on imo.

[JHRover]

I'd say in this day and age Armstrong at less than £2 million is a bargain. It's only because Venkys have been so tight on funds over the last 5 years that one or two are raising eyebrows at it. Normally someone of his age with his background would be well worth spending that sort of money on. All it takes is a decent season in the Championship and he'll be worth much more than that.

His background and price range are the sort we should be going for as a club - experience of where we are at with plenty of scope to improve and develop.

[Don Said]

57 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Didn't Jason Lowe captain England U21's!?  Enough said.

For that money, we could have signed the likes of Pukki with plenty of change left over.  Also, think Brum paid less than Armstrong's fee for Adams.

Just feel for £1.75m we could have done much, much better.

He did but come on, watching Armstrong you can see something. His pace stands out against most in this league. And he’s previously got the goals to back it up.

Whereas we couldn’t see anything like that with Lowe.

And be realistic - for every Pukki I’d bet there’s 10 flops. 

We could’ve done better for that money yes but only as a gamble. Imo Armstrong for that money was one of the soundest investments out there.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Don Said

[Dreams of 1995]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Not sure I'd say a great signing and I'd also say a return of 4 goals is rather disappointing, he's really only had one good month all season. There is undoubted ability with Armstrong (unlike Brereton) but next season is an important one for him he needs to bulk up over the summer and bring more end product to his game to show that he is a good Championship player rather than just a very good League 1 player.

I think his return has been pretty good for a lad playing out on the wing. He's contributed to a few goals as well. I honestly thought he had scored more than 4 though so it shows how clouded my judgement probably is on him!!

His performance vs Leeds at home shows me that there is a player somewhere in there. You just feel in the system he is being played in he isn't ever going to get a chance to lead the line for a prolonged period of time.

 

[blueboy3333]

"Whether it’s next season, or the one after, as a manager I understand you only get so much time, so for me we will try and strengthen in the summer and make sure everyone knows next year we will be competing with all of those clubs to try and get out of this division.” - Mogga

There you have. More BS rhetoric that he can't be judged on for months and months. A bit like his 'Brereton will be a superstar one day' quote.

Good managers just get on and do it. 

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

"Whether it’s next season, or the one after, as a manager I understand you only get so much time, so for me we will try and strengthen in the summer and make sure everyone knows next year we will be competing with all of those clubs to try and get out of this division.” - Mogga

There you have. More BS rhetoric that he can't be judged on for months and months. A bit like his 'Brereton will be a superstar one day' quote.

Good managers just get on and do it. 

”Whether it’s next season or the one after”. Bloody hell, the arrogance!

Mowbray knows that if he keeps his nose clean he is untouchable at Rovers.