Mowbray: Stay or go?

[tomphil]

53 minutes ago, JHRover said:

'We were down on numbers for a spell, we had a defensive crisis really and lost some tight games'

'People throw statistics at you, and that's fine because they are factual, but from perspective the team had done so well for so long but we've got players back fit and won back-to-back games'

'We just have to make sure we can improve our strength in depth so when key players get injured they are being replaced'

Alarming comments again today from Mowbray. Seems to be approaching things on the basis that the first XI is absolutely fine and our only work needs to be on brining in more depth, rather than radically improving our team. He also seems to be under the impression our horrible run of results was down to injuries and the improvement is down to the return of certain 'players'. With the exception of Darragh Lenihan I'm not sure who he is referring to here.

 

Exactly what I mean about him talking himself into a hole repeatedly looking at that first comment.

In Jan it was we are ok defensively i'm happy with the cover there so i'll let Downing go then literally 2 weeks later we were struggling and the cover was pish.

Now he reals out that comment but we know it was partly self caused along with not having quality specialist defenders in the right place which has repeatedly lost us tight games.

Also back to alluding to just signing back up players again.

I think he's got an inkling about next seasons budget already which probably won't include room for decent cash signings.  Expect that rhetoric to change again full circle once season tickets are on sale.

[JHRover]

I wonder which tale Venkys would prefer to hear from Mowbray and Waggott when they turn up in Pune this summer.

1) We need to significantly improve the team if we're going to do anything but struggle next season. We need 6 players who are going to displace those here already. A few will need to be sold to make way. This isn't going to be cheap and is going to need serious money spending plus commitment to wages and contracts reflecting the quality of these new players. We went on a terrible run after January because we failed to strengthen and didn't have enough quality in the squad. We need to rectify that as a matter of urgency. Get your chequebook out now because we're going to need at least the same as last summer cash wise and be able to spread that around 5-6 decent players.

2) Everything is wonderful. We've done really well and just been unlucky due to an injury crisis. In terms of new signings we'll be fine with a few back-up players who can step in when injuries bite. It won't cost much as we've already got a good squad tied down after last years contract bonanza. We'll get a few loans and frees to fill the void left by those out of contract.

I suspect Madame and her husband would prefer to hear the second story.

[JHRover]

Just now, tomphil said:

 

I think he's got an inkling about next seasons budget already which probably won't include room for decent cash signings.  Expect that rhetoric to change again full circle once season tickets are on sale.

It seems that once we get January out of the way and attention turns towards the summer the manager seems to get indications through from India, presumably via Pasha, as to what he's going to have to work with. Nothing official and probably not directly from the horses mouth but little bits of info that point towards a certain level of budget and this impacts upon the manager's communications to the press.

It happened with Lambert when he was trying to lure them into providing him with a major kitty and then he got word through this wasn't going to be happening.

Suppose it boils down to how persuasive Mowbray can be when he gets to meet with the head honcho. All year round she'll have accountants and advisors telling her what to do, probably at odds with what we want and need, and Mowbray gets a few hours a year to sell his vision to her and persuade her to stump up extra funds.

[Stuart]

Very concerning. It doesn’t sound like Mowbray has learned anything from this season. After he let Downing go and brought in nobody to replace him in January, it’s fair to say his judgement is flawed. Being kind, of Mowbray’s self-imposed target was survival then he may have felt in January that he was ahead of schedule and could afford to gamble. However, next season’s target is surely better than survival. He regularly talks about margins. Those same margins could have seen us (and could see us next season) in a relegation battle.

If he truly believes that we have a good enough first XI then I would guess that his view of recruitment is:

Replacement for Leutweiler = cheapest option wins

Replacements for Reed and Rodwell = Davenport in and another PL loan

Experienced CB to replace Downing = must be someone happy to be on the bench week-in week-out

Striker = replacement for Nuttall (to loan) so that Brereton can get more opportunities

Frightening!

[DE.]

Just now, Stuart said:

Experienced CB to replace Downing = must be someone happy to be on the bench week-in week-out

Could end up being Williams with a new left back being brought in as competition for Bell. Or just have Williams cover both roles and rely on an u23 player to fill in when injuries strike.

[Stuart]

Just now, JHRover said:

I wonder which tale Venkys would prefer to hear from Mowbray and Waggott when they turn up in Pune this summer.

1) We need to significantly improve the team if we're going to do anything but struggle next season. We need 6 players who are going to displace those here already. A few will need to be sold to make way. This isn't going to be cheap and is going to need serious money spending plus commitment to wages and contracts reflecting the quality of these new players. We went on a terrible run after January because we failed to strengthen and didn't have enough quality in the squad. We need to rectify that as a matter of urgency. Get your chequebook out now because we're going to need at least the same as last summer cash wise and be able to spread that around 5-6 decent players.

2) Everything is wonderful. We've done really well and just been unlucky due to an injury crisis. In terms of new signings we'll be fine with a few back-up players who can step in when injuries bite. It won't cost much as we've already got a good squad tied down after last years contract bonanza. We'll get a few loans and frees to fill the void left by those out of contract.

I suspect Madame and her husband would prefer to hear the second story.

And yet they were trying to throw money at him last Summer!

All very odd. The only theory which makes sense it that by lowering expectations Mowbray isn’t under pressure to succeed and can never been seen as failing.

Relegation vs All Coyle’s fault

2nd instead of first vs Promoted at first attempt

Play-off potential vs survival

All three down to fine margins as a result of Mowbray’s decision making. I’ll include relegation, somewhat harshly, because his points total should have kept us up but demonstrates how you can’t rely on targets and need to win games ‘on the day’.

 

[Stuart]

Just now, DE. said:

Could end up being Williams with a new left back being brought in as competition for Bell. Or just have Williams cover both roles and rely on an u23 player to fill in when injuries strike.

I think he wants Williams to play rather than be a sub though. It would be interesting to see if Lenihan and Williams can form a partnership as this season ends, allowing us to sell Mulgrew.

[Ewood Ace]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17581217.tony-mowbray-on-exceptionally-talented-rovers-loanee-reed/

An exceptional talent who like Palmer and Rothwell this season has had that talent wasted by Mowbray. Good luck to Reed wherever he end's up next season, one thing is for certain he will be playing Premier League football long before Tony Mowbray is managing in the Premier League.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Stuart said:

I think he wants Williams to play rather than be a sub though. It would be interesting to see if Lenihan and Williams can form a partnership as this season ends, allowing us to sell Mulgrew.

Who would buy Mulgrew? Ultimately the mistake was to give him a new deal.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17581217.tony-mowbray-on-exceptionally-talented-rovers-loanee-reed/

An exceptional talent who like Palmer and Rothwell this season has had that talent wasted by Mowbray. Good luck to Reed wherever he end's up next season, one thing is for certain he will be playing Premier League football long before Tony Mowbray is managing in the Premier League.

I read that earlier. Typical Mowbray, justifies not picking him and covers up playing him out of position by slagging him off publicly.He didn't have to, he chose to.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Who would buy Mulgrew? Ultimately the mistake was to give him a new deal.

Those were promised and handed out to reward those who stuck around in L1. I think in other professions it might be called bribery, imo

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

And yet they were trying to throw money at him last Summer!

All very odd. The only theory which makes sense it that by lowering expectations Mowbray isn’t under pressure to succeed and can never been seen as failing.

Relegation vs All Coyle’s fault

2nd instead of first vs Promoted at first attempt

Play-off potential vs survival

All three down to fine margins as a result of Mowbray’s decision making. I’ll include relegation, somewhat harshly, because his points total should have kept us up but demonstrates how you can’t rely on targets and need to win games ‘on the day’.

 

Mowbray had time to save us from relegation and failed. You are not being harsh. The points matter is just detail, other teams got more, Mowbray knew what was going on and I repeat, failed in what he was appointed to do. It can be dressed up how people want but there is no escaping the facts.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

I read that earlier. Typical Mowbray, justifies not picking him and covers up playing him out of position by slagging him off publicly.He didn't have to, he chose to.

He regularly singles out young player's for criticism in the press. Yet older players like Bennett, Williams, Mulgrew, Smallwood and Evans can be consistently poor but are seemingly immune from Mowbray's public criticisms.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Who would buy Mulgrew? Ultimately the mistake was to give him a new deal.

A Scottish SPL side would be my guess. Not saying we’d get much for him.

[Mattyblue]

Considering one of Scotland's biggest clubs Aberdeen lost their star striker to Salford City, he'd have to take a serious wage cut... 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

He regularly singles out young player's for criticism in the press. Yet older players like Bennett, Williams, Mulgrew, Smallwood and Evans can be consistently poor but are seemingly immune from Mowbray's public criticisms.

And in the case of Rothwell and Reed and a lesser extent Travis they are Mowbray agenda driven, face saving exercises sowing seeds of doubt in the minds of (easily influenced) fans to protect his own carefully built profile, which I have never bought into. I find these public and largely unjustified attacks distasteful, he's had a go at Reed twice in just about a week and what is the point of the latest one when Reed has all but departed? well it's so the fans think we've lost little of value. Again self protection. He irritates me to hell and back.

[Butty]

27 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Who would buy Mulgrew? Ultimately the mistake was to give him a new deal.

In the unlikely event Lennon gets the Celtic job permanently again he might give his pal Charlie a cushy retirement deal... Other than that I don’t think there will be many suitors. Did many of us complain when Mulgrew got his new deal? I certainly didn’t see anything on here too suggest that.. It’s easy too say now his legs have gone that it was a mistake but he was playing well at the time and had not had any injuries in a while. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

It seems that once we get January out of the way and attention turns towards the summer the manager seems to get indications through from India, presumably via Pasha, as to what he's going to have to work with. Nothing official and probably not directly from the horses mouth but little bits of info that point towards a certain level of budget and this impacts upon the manager's communications to the press.

It happened with Lambert when he was trying to lure them into providing him with a major kitty and then he got word through this wasn't going to be happening.

Suppose it boils down to how persuasive Mowbray can be when he gets to meet with the head honcho. All year round she'll have accountants and advisors telling her what to do, probably at odds with what we want and need, and Mowbray gets a few hours a year to sell his vision to her and persuade her to stump up extra funds.

The worse thing for everyone to hear would be it's ok Tony you don't need come over we are happy with the way things are going we'll catch up with you in Zurich at a later date !

Just my personal opinion but I suspect they've invested upfront in the last two summers in Dack/Armstrong/Brereton etc and that's it now they'll want that team to grow and be sprinkled with youth so next summer the 'book value' is higher than its been for a good while.  What happens after that well I think i'd take a punt on how it'll pan out.

Very similar soundbites now emitting as the GB era after he was allowed two nice little lumps of investment over a couple of windows.

The toss up for me is team built to grow now to raise a big lump in a few windows time or team built to survive in the champ and only add minimal investment hoping for a bolt out of the blue miracle season whilst running more within its means. Of course like you say a face to face selling job or an owner whim could change all that in an instant but I bet the money men/accountants or whatever they are have set out a plan similar to one of the two I've mentioned.

Perhaps Mrs M could send over some nice lemon drizzle for Mrs D just at the right time in the window.

[jim mk2]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17581217.tony-mowbray-on-exceptionally-talented-rovers-loanee-reed/

 

Reed is 24, so he's not that young for a footballer and should be playing regular first team football by now.

Soton will be likely be in the PL next season, so staying there is pointless for Reed as he's unlikely to be get much game time

He's proved himself an outstanding performer in the Championship, and seems to like it at Ewood, so why isn't Mowbray making noises about trying to keep him ?

And unless he has other irons in the fire, where is he going to find better ?

[Guest]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17581217.tony-mowbray-on-exceptionally-talented-rovers-loanee-reed/

 

Reed is 24, so he's not that young for a footballer and should be playing regular first team football by now.

Soton will be likely be in the PL next season, so staying there is pointless for Reed as he's unlikely to be get much game time

He's proved himself an outstanding performer in the Championship, and seems to like it at Ewood, so why isn't Mowbray making noises about trying to keep him ?

And unless he has other irons in the fire, where is he going to find better ?

Agreed. 

And that saying makes me shiver. We heard that deadline day last summer and all of January and ended up with the square root of fuck all both times.

[DE.]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17581217.tony-mowbray-on-exceptionally-talented-rovers-loanee-reed/

 

Reed is 24, so he's not that young for a footballer and should be playing regular first team football by now.

Soton will be likely be in the PL next season, so staying there is pointless for Reed as he's unlikely to be get much game time

He's proved himself an outstanding performer in the Championship, and seems to like it at Ewood, so why isn't Mowbray making noises about trying to keep him ?

And unless he has other irons in the fire, where is he going to find better ?

I still have a feeling that Reed said or did something to piss Mowbray off. Hence his sudden bench time and now returning to Southampton with no indication he'll be back this season or next. I think we will unfortunately have to forget about this one and move forward. It seems to take Mowbray a long time to regain trust in a player after they've done something to annoy him. Look at Travis! That red card last season seemed to make him persona non grata for a long time.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 17/04/2019 at 13:42, DE. said:

Honestly I don't think the next four games will tell us anything at all. They're pretty meaningless. Our meaningful games were in february after we clawed ourselves back into a great position after a disastrous November/December, and once again we spectacularly blew it.

I firmly believe Mowbray has run his race here and the summer will be as disappointing as every transfer window so far, minus the first one in summer 2017. I think next season will be more difficult and we could easily be in a relegation struggle. 

That said, I can't blame people for believing that Mowbray can succeed. We all want him to, after all, and it's not like our idiot owners are going to go out and get anybody better. Mowbray coming to his senses, realising his mistakes and strengthening the team smartly this summer is realistically the best possible option - albeit one I also think is highly unlikely. 

I've voted for him to go and remain with that vote because I think he will have us at the wrong end of the table next season, with infuriating team selections, players out of position and no real control over the dressing room. I would absolutely love for him to prove me wrong though, and I'm hoping beyond hope that he does, because otherwise we'll end up playing Venky Roulette again and I'm pretty sure Steve Kean will still be out of work by then. 

 100% that's what we all want, but we can see stark warning signs.

I think at this stage though, he will definitely be here at the start of next season, no doubt about that, so it's kind of pointless discussing his future all summer. 

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Very concerning. It doesn’t sound like Mowbray has learned anything from this season. After he let Downing go and brought in nobody to replace him in January, it’s fair to say his judgement is flawed. Being kind, of Mowbray’s self-imposed target was survival then he may have felt in January that he was ahead of schedule and could afford to gamble. However, next season’s target is surely better than survival. He regularly talks about margins. Those same margins could have seen us (and could see us next season) in a relegation battle.

If he truly believes that we have a good enough first XI then I would guess that his view of recruitment is:

Replacement for Leutweiler = cheapest option wins

Replacements for Reed and Rodwell = Davenport in and another PL loan

Experienced CB to replace Downing = must be someone happy to be on the bench week-in week-out

Striker = replacement for Nuttall (to loan) so that Brereton can get more opportunities

Frightening!

Sadly I don't think your far off their and the reason I voted go. 

That's exactly how I see next season going without the good start we had this season

[tomphil]

New striker to back up DG + wide striker/winger = One Dominic Samuel esquire - like signing a new player !

[Mercer]

Mowbray's LT article on Reed just demonstrates, IMO, why he should no longer be our manager.  I think it's just b 0 l l 0 c k s  and bullsh1t.

If Mowbray had managed England, there's no way the 'young' Bobby Moore would have been lifting the World Cup in 1966 having just turned 25 (only about 7 months older than Reed is now)!!!

Edited April 18, 2019 by Mercer