Mowbray: Stay or go?

[JBiz]

14 minutes ago, Stuart said:

No, no. We are now a normal functioning club because of Mowbray - James Wilkinson told his groupies on Twitter.

Are you sure you’ve read it right?

Why is everything always a binary yes or no, right or wrong, black or white?

Nobody said TM has completely turned the club around, they just pointed out the improvement in just over two years.

I always feel with you Stuart, if you hadn’t made your mind up about TM before his first game, you wouldn’t be hyper-criticising everything we do now.

You know, you don’t have to make your mind up, you know? 

Can I add - screen shotting this and replying on Twitter is one of the saddest ways to make a point. “Sub tweeting” is modern day social media “shade” 101!

Edited April 22, 2019 by Biz

[blueboy3333]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17588298.mowbray-wants-to-give-rovers-fans-a-team-to-be-proud-of/

Mowbray putting the onus back on Venky's and where their ambitions lie:-

"Hopefully we can build again in the summer to make us stronger and try and threaten the top end of the table. That is our aim. I will go to India after the last match of the season and talk to the owners and see what their ambition for the club is.”

Mowbray has had the biggest support in the transfer market of any manager under Venky's since K**n. He also failed to spend the money he had in January. It's up to him to source players who can fit into our wage budget and who will take the club forward. That is his responsibility. Not everything is someone else's responsibility which is how it appears in Tony's world.

Talk of top 6 with him in charge is for the birds...but if he keeps saying 'Jam tomorrow' people lap it up. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by blueboy3333

[unsall]

16 hours ago, Stuart said:

You’ve got a point. I think his good runs and bad runs have polarised opinion, yes, but as I’ve been saying for some time, Mowbray - like Bowyer before him - is a WDL-man. Over a season that amounts to 61 points and a 12th-16th place finish.

Mowbray’s own target is 60 points. ? 

He needs to raise the bar.

Yes, and 60/61 points and a 12th-16th after promotion is perfectly acceptable, he hopes to raise the bar next season as he’s said on numerous occasions...

[The Mighty Chaffinch]

We are comfortable in mid-table with three games to play. We have achieved this with predominately the same squad that won promotion from league 1. During our recent bad run the home defeats were all close and could quite easily have gone in our favour. We were toe to toe with Norwich, Bristol City, Middlesbrough and Preston, all four teams challenging for promotion and lost 1-0 in each. Only the Stoke game was a bad performance and even in that match we probably deserved a point. We have competed with the best in this division and have played some excellent attacking football at times. Defensive injuries have hurt us and yes, not strengthening in that area in January looks like an oversight however we've got through it. 

My point is, I'm more than happy with Mowbray. Challenging for promotion this year was unrealistic and to have been in the play off mix at one point should be seen as an achievement in itself. After the revolving doors approach of recent years it has been a breath of fresh air to have an honest bloke in charge given the time to develop a team capable of moving in the right direction. No manager will be perfect and we all have our gripes from time to time but I'm happy with Mowbray. I've been a much happier Rover since he took charge 

[AllRoverAsia]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Quotes from Mowbray in the LT saying he is going to India after the last game of the season to see what the owners "ambitions" are for the club

So we are where we always are. Playing catch up to the prepared teams whose owners have a clear vision clearly laid out. 

We have known we will be in this division for a over a week now. Why does he have to wait until the end of the season to seek clarity on their ambitions? It's all very frustrating 

 

It's called "Slow Build", check first with the Owners after each brick is laid. Might take a while to complete ..... about pension age methinks.

[blueboy3333]

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

And why can't it be done tomorrow via Skype or suchlike in that time? Does Balaji prefer managers to see his side boobs in person? Real teams would probably be looking around for players now, whilst there are still games to watch.

Ya, I just find it bizarre that he needs to go there to know their "ambition"  I think it's a bit worrying that he is publicly saying this too 

I mean should Waggott, at least, not know their ambition for next season? 

Are we back to the A list to Z list scouting system, depending on how much pennies venkys decide to release? It would clearly make more sense to know this and only scout the players in our bloody budget 

I like Mowbray and I believe managers should be given time which makes the fact he still needs to go over there to find out what they are thinking and how much they will support him disappointing 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[blueboy3333]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

It's called "Slow Build", check first with the Owners after each brick is laid. Might take a while to complete ..... about pension age methinks.

Careful, deadly @deryck guyler's spoon will be accusing you of accusing Tony of corruption if you mention pensions.

[Stuart]

Just now, unsall said:

Yes, and 60/61 points and a 12th-16th after promotion is perfectly acceptable, he hopes to raise the bar next season as he’s said on numerous occasions...

My point was that is the type of manager he is. WDL. Not only this season. He may raise the bar but will struggle to hit it unless he addresses key issues.

However, time is not on our side and Mowbray’s bar looks to be not much higher next season...

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17588298.mowbray-wants-to-give-rovers-fans-a-team-to-be-proud-of/

Mowbray putting the onus back on Venky's and where their ambitions lie:-

"Hopefully we can build again in the summer to make us stronger and try and threaten the top end of the table. That is our aim. I will go to India after the last match of the season and talk to the owners and see what their ambition for the club is.”

Mowbray has had the biggest support in the transfer market of any manager under Venky's since K**n. He also failed to spend the money he had in January. It's up to him to source players who can fit into our wage budget and who will take the club forward. That is his responsibility. Not everything is someone else's responsibility which is how it appears in Tony's world.

Talk of top 6 with him in charge is for the birds...but if he keeps saying 'Jam tomorrow' people lap it up. 

So next season’s target is “threatening the top end of the table”. He steers well clear of saying ‘aiming for the play-offs’. So another slow build season. Top half finish. He seems to have all the time on the world.

Maybe the play-offs will be the aim in 2020/21 or the season after? By which time our debt will be well over £200m.

I wonder if Mowbray has any ambition of his own for the club, or if he will just carry on with whatever criteria they set?

We are either going to have a Mowbray era - of the type United had with Ferguson (just without the success) - or we are going to have wasted years paddling around in the shallow end.

[OldEwoodBlue]

13 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

And why can't it be done tomorrow via Skype or suchlike in that time? Does Balaji prefer managers to see his side boobs in person? Real teams would probably be looking around for players now, whilst there are still games to watch.

Now we have been told before that they cant use Skype so please stop making sensible suggestions.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Stuart said:

 

I wonder if Mowbray has any ambition of his own for the club, or if he will just carry on with whatever criteria they set?

Mowbray's ambition is to stay in safe and secure employment until he retires and pays for uni fees etc

Slowly

 

Just now, Stuart said:

We are either going to have a Mowbray era - of the type United had with Ferguson (just without the success) - or we are going to have wasted years paddling around in the shallow end.

Prophetic

So more like a Dario Graddi era

Safely in the shallow end

[Atko's Engine]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

My point was that is the type of manager he is. WDL. Not only this season. He may raise the bar but will struggle to hit it unless he addresses key issues.

However, time is not on our side and Mowbray’s bar looks to be not much higher next season...

So next season’s target is “threatening the top end of the table”. He steers well clear of saying ‘aiming for the play-offs’. So another slow build season. Top half finish. He seems to have all the time on the world.

Maybe the play-offs will be the aim in 2020/21 or the season after? By which time our debt will be well over £200m.

I wonder if Mowbray has any ambition of his own for the club, or if he will just carry on with whatever criteria they set?

We are either going to have a Mowbray era - of the type United had with Ferguson (just without the success) - or we are going to have wasted years paddling around in the shallow end.

So if he'd said "Next season we're aiming for the playoffs" you'd have been happier? I doubt it; more likely his critics would have asked "What, only playoffs? Why not aim higher?".

He just can't win with many on here, his words get over analysed (as I guess happens to all managers).

Also your view of his comments depends on interpreting what he means by "top end".  You've clearly interpreted it as 1st-6th (fair enough but that's quite a thick end, being a quarter of the division), but in TM's head it could mean 1st - 3rd (which is probably a more accurate interpretation of "top end" of a 24 team division).

This is why it's not binary, other than in the sense of he stays or he goes. 

However, I do agree that now we're safe we ought to now be actioning pre-formed plans for next season, both in terms of recruitment & ST sales etc., not trying to finalise ambitions. Hopefully it's not a case of last season's lessons not being learnt. That though should be a criticism of the owners & Waggott, not TM.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Atko's Engine

[tomphil]

29 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

And why can't it be done tomorrow via Skype or suchlike in that time? Does Balaji prefer managers to see his side boobs in person? Real teams would probably be looking around for players now, whilst there are still games to watch.

I think the Indian trips are all about getting a face to face audience with Madame and hubby as surely Balaji and the other one are easy enough to come across with the former frequent London jaunts and the latters Zurich visits.

Tony needs to leave Charlie Cheston & Steve Surcharge at home and take his kids, Mrs and and a king sized lemon drizzle along with a grand plan of buying Bradley Dacks and not Ben Breretons and he might just come back with a transfer pot in return.  Then when he's coming through customs they should stamp 'defenders' on his forehead so he doesn't forget get again !

[K-Hod]

10 hours ago, Butty said:

Chaddy on twitter calling some people on this forum “deluded”... Nearly spat my Guinness out when I saw that him of all people had said that ? and yes he still tweets Nixon asking for rovers news EVERYDAY.

I think that’s the first time message board gold hasn’t originated on the message board...

[JHRover]

56 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Quotes from Mowbray in the LT saying he is going to India after the last game of the season to see what the owners "ambitions" are for the club

So we are where we always are. Playing catch up to the prepared teams whose owners have a clear vision clearly laid out. 

We have known we will be in this division for a over a week now. Why does he have to wait until the end of the season to seek clarity on their ambitions? It's all very frustrating 

 

I was going to post something similar when i saw his comments.

Back to where we always are, the manager needing to wait until they find time to see him before he even knows what their ambitions are, never mind what his budget is going to be. 

Any hopes of being able to move quickly to resolve issues and hit the ground running next season gone, all because of our insane way of operating under these owners.

Whilst Mowbray is sat in Pune waiting for his audience everyone else will be busy at work recruiting.

No excuse for it, and another example, along with the season ticket fiasco, of the club bringing difficulties upon itself.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Chaddy fails to notice the 20 THOUSAND empty seats around him.

In his own little blue and white bubble that one.

Least he will be first in the ST queue.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Just now, tomphil said:

I think the Indian trips are all about getting a face to face audience with Madame and hubby as surely Balaji and the other one are easy enough to come across with the former frequent London jaunts and the latters Zurich visits.

Tony needs to leave Charlie Cheston & Steve Surcharge at home and take his kids, Mrs and and a king sized lemon drizzle along with a grand plan of buying Bradley Dacks and not Ben Breretons and he might just come back with a transfer pot in return.  Then when he's coming through customs they should stamp 'defenders' on his forehead so he doesn't forget get again !

Yes, I forgot Madame was the real power. Still, it is odd and stupid that you have to get on a plane some time after the season, and then decide to look for players etc. when technology is there to do it more efficiently.

[Stuart]

22 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Mowbray's ambition is to stay in safe and secure employment until he retires and pays for uni fees etc

Slowly

 

Prophetic

So more like a Dario Graddi era

Safely in the shallow end

That would actually a better comparison. He needs to start playing youngsters though!

[Stuart]

21 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

So if he'd said "Next season we're aiming for the playoffs" you'd have been happier? I doubt it; more likely his critics would have asked "What, only playoffs? Why not aim higher?".

He just can't win with many on here, his words get over analysed (as I guess happens to all managers).

Also your view of his comments depends on interpreting what he means by "top end".  You've clearly interpreted it as 1st-6th (fair enough but that's quite a thick end, being a quarter of the division), but in TM's head it could mean 1st - 3rd (which is probably a more accurate interpretation of "top end" of a 24 team division).

This is why it's not binary, other than in the sense of he stays or he goes. 

However, I do agree that now we're safe we ought to now be actioning pre-formed plans for next season, both in terms of recruitment & ST sales etc., not trying to finalise ambitions. Hopefully it's not a case of last season's lessons not being learnt. That though should be a criticism of the owners & Waggott, not TM.

Yes, I’d have been happier if he had stated that play-offs must be our aim next season and put a little bit of pressure in Venkys to back him to get there. IMHO, that’s were Lambert’s head was: “I’m ambitious are you?”. Rather than “Are you ambitious at all, it’s absolutely fine if you’re not though”.

Your first paragraph is what I’m up against though. I’m just a bloke who wants the best for this club: that means rid of Venkys. The first step for that to happen is for us to be financially not dependent on them. They can raise ST prices all they like but the only way that happens is through PL cash - especially as they won’t sell at a loss. (Although for some reason people still say “we are only in debt to Venkys, they could write it off” - they won’t, because if they would they’d have sold by now and cut their losses).

The second bit in bold: I’ve not interpreted it as a 1-6 placing but much lower. Threatening the top end and not talking about the play-offs means 7-13th. No way is Mowbray talking about 1st-3rd! (In any case, 3rd isn’t anyone’s realistic aim). I suspect he is understating things so as not to upset Madame. Maybe he is being cute in order to build on the trust he built up last season but having pee’d all of last season’s budget up the wall on Brereton, he may find that Madame’s cheque book pen has suddenly grown legs. “Damn it, it was here a window ago, I just can’t put my hand on it. See you in January then.”

[Blue blood]

In fairness to Venkys - whom I loath and detest - I can see why they'd be sceptical giving TM money after the last £7 million went down the drain. 

One of the most baffling things they did was cut the limited funding to Bowyer given the profit he kept making for them. 

Either way I've a feeling our budget next season is going to be small. 

[tomphil]

23 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Yes, I forgot Madame was the real power. Still, it is odd and stupid that you have to get on a plane some time after the season, and then decide to look for players etc. when technology is there to do it more efficiently.

Exactly but that's what we are up against.

We have a CEO now so he should be securing next seasons budget as soon as possible then the manager can start to work on his main targets asap.  It explains the scattergun approach we usually have to just get bodies in for the sake of it late in summer or miss out altogether.

Not difficult to see why we probably didn't move for anyone in Jan when it has to be first agreed face to face in India if it's a significant amount of money. No time for that mid season but then again it now should be Stevie's job.

[CraigF]

31 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Yes, I forgot Madame was the real power. Still, it is odd and stupid that you have to get on a plane some time after the season, and then decide to look for players etc. when technology is there to do it more efficiently.

Well Tony might like having a nice trip around India. I for one wouldn’t mind enjoying a luxurious holiday all expenses paid ??

[Blue blood]

It also shows why we'll never succeed under Venkys. When your decision making process is twice as slow as everyone else's you are at a massive disadvantage. (And no Skype - beyond unprofessional, babyish.) Given they don't have a clue either when making decisions it's a guaranteed disaster. 

[FGS5635]

For me if you let the CEO organise the budget with venkys, then it becomes a simple business decision based on balance sheets and we get £x

TM probably feels that if he is there face to face with them he can sell them on a bigger picture and get them to give £x + more

[blueboy3333]

Have the fans forum ever asked the question as to why the manager has to go and see the owners in person every summer? Has anyone asked Waggott?