Retained list 2018/2019 Season

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, 47er said:

He would do very well at Acc. Good call.

or I'd be getting myself to Blackpool with Terry Mac and Nathan's doing well there.....In fact, Conway and Delphonso live close by each other.........Conway lives in South Ribble so Blackpool would be bang on.

[K-Hod]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Acrington Stanley could do worse than Conway and Smallwood. Would be 2 great signings for them. 

They would have to take an unbelievable wage cut to go there!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, K-Hod said:

They would have to take an unbelievable wage cut to go there!

Conway maybe not that big, depends on what his new offer is here. 

Ya, Smalwood is probably on decent wages here now. Relative to Accy players anyway 

[arbitro]

Just now, K-Hod said:

They would have to take an unbelievable wage cut to go there!

They absolutely would. In their promotion season Accringtons top paid player was on £1200 a week. They will be on better money now with the club having a greater income but nowhere near what the likes of Smallwood and Conway are on.

[Butty]

Just now, K-Hod said:

They would have to take an unbelievable wage cut to go there!

Salford City would definitely pay them more, I don’t know about Smallwood as he’s younger but would Conway drop too league two too stay local and enjoy his last one or two seasons being paid handsomely? If I was him I probably would as he’s clearly settled in the area. 

[Sparks Rover]

I'd say Smallwood is on 5k per week here, probably got his money doubled when he signed from Donny...the Donny midfield are on 2.5k per week.

I bet Conway is on around 10k as he's been here a long time and probably was on more at some point.

[K-Hod]

In any event, they won't be getting paid that at Stanley.....

[JHRover]

Conway and Smallwood will be on a Championship level wedge or at least top drawer League One wages. Stanley will be paying bottom half League Two wages.

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd say Smallwood is on 5k per week here, probably got his money doubled when he signed from Donny...the Donny midfield are on 2.5k per week.

I bet Conway is on around 10k as he's been here a long time and probably was on more at some point.

Leading light in promotion season, fan fav and one of Tonys blue eyed boys plus new terms after promotion i'd wager he's on a good bit more now.

[Tom]

Reckon Conway May rock up at Barnsley or similar 

[Bigdoggsteel]

All this talk of retained lists reminds me about Whittingham. He never announced he was retiring, but he hasn't found a club since here. A bit strange 

[JHRover]

Just now, Tom said:

Reckon Conway May rock up at Barnsley or similar 

Don't think Barnsley are really in the business of signing players on their last legs. They're a very clued up operation these days with their new owners and structure in place and I think will be signing players from all over the place, most of them young end. A similar recruitment policy to Brentford.

Someone like Rotherham or Doncaster would be more likely for Conway.

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, JHRover said:

They're a very clued up operation these days with their new owners and structure in place and I think will be signing players from all over the place.

Sigh!, How I wish you were talking about Rovers

[cesus]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Acrington Stanley could do worse than Conway and Smallwood. Would be 2 great signings for them. 

Stanley like to get the ball down and play football, Smallwood would genuinely struggle in that set up. A huge reason they are spending circa of £400k on the pitch this summer is to curb the cancellations but as much so they can play their game.

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Agreed. Excellent points by both you and @OnePhilT - which I missed so thanks for quoting.

Halo effect: There seems to be an accepting of everything that the club does while Mowbray is here as positive and right, and anyone who questions anything as negative or irrational. There was a post from someone having a proper rant about the “over-reaction” to basically disappointment about us being “in talks” with a player who even when fully fit was useless. Something which is already contrary Mowbray’s close season rhetoric.

 

This is completely fair enough & I know I'm guilty of it.

Thing is though, the branch of social psychology which the halo effect comes from also finds the opposite mechanism to be true -  the 'forked tail' effect, whereby people who have a negative opinion of someone or something allow that view to spill over into viewing other aspects of them negatively. 

Trying to be reflexive about it, I know I've been overly defensive of TM when it comes to some of the individual decisions that he has made because I think overall he's been great. I also think TM critics have at times been guilty of the reverse though; don't like some aspect of his management, and that has spilled over into over-reactions about things which are either unrelated or not that important.

This is a really good case in point. I personally think it's a good thing that TM is the sort of manager which looks after players in Gladwin's position, but I know full well that if TM had decided to let him go as we all expected, I'd be backing him (in fact I'd probably not even give it a seconds thought). Equally, fans may think rightly or wrongly that TM has been too loyal in his selection of his favourites, and the fact that he's is keeping on Gladwin is demonstrative of why we always be hamstrung with Mowbray in charge because of his blind-spots (even though keeping on in injured player for a few months before letting them go has little bearing on how loyal he has been to players who actually get on the pitch, and doesn't point at all to how the rest of the summer is going to go recruitment-wise). Would TM have got the credit for being ruthless for letting Gladwin go (or Conway & the Canadian for that matter)? I doubt it. 

This obviously gets 10 times worse on a message board where people get even more entrenched in their positions, but I think the irrationality can be found across the piece, not just those of us who get starry eyed about the manager. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, cesus said:

Stanley like to get the ball down and play football, Smallwood would genuinely struggle in that set up. A huge reason they are spending circa of £400k on the pitch this summer is to curb the cancellations but as much so they can play their game.

I'd say he would do alright. He isn't that bad. I'm sure they don't have xavi and Iniesta in the middle at the moment. You need a smallwood at that level 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

This is completely fair enough & I know I'm guilty of it.

Thing is though, the branch of social psychology which the halo effect comes from also finds the opposite mechanism to be true -  the 'forked tail' effect, whereby people who have a negative opinion of someone or something allow that view to spill over into viewing other aspects of them negatively. 

Trying to be reflexive about it, I know I've been overly defensive of TM when it comes to some of the individual decisions that he has made because I think overall he's been great. I also think TM critics have at times been guilty of the reverse though; don't like some aspect of his management, and that has spilled over into over-reactions about things which are either unrelated or not that important.

This is a really good case in point. I personally think it's a good thing that TM is the sort of manager which looks after players in Gladwin's position, but I know full well that if TM had decided to let him go as we all expected, I'd be backing him (in fact I'd probably not even give it a seconds thought). Equally, fans may think rightly or wrongly that TM has been too loyal in his selection of his favourites, and the fact that he's is keeping on Gladwin is demonstrative of why we always be hamstrung with Mowbray in charge because of his blind-spots (even though keeping on in injured player for a few months before letting them go has little bearing on how loyal he has been to players who actually get on the pitch, and doesn't point at all to how the rest of the summer is going to go recruitment-wise). Would TM have got the credit for being ruthless for letting Gladwin go (or Conway & the Canadian for that matter)? I doubt it. 

This obviously gets 10 times worse on a message board where people get even more entrenched in their positions, but I think the irrationality can be found across the piece, not just those of us who get starry eyed about the manager. 

Great post. Definitely the "forked tail" view here. Some players get scapegoated and those with little knowledge jump on the bandwagon. 

It always surprises me when I read some comments on social media from people who are actually from blackburn. They don't have a clue. I read a guy the other day slating some of the players, then it was pointed out to him that Downing has been on loan since January. He didn't know. The most critical on twitter and Facebook are generally people who can't spell as well I notice. I'm not taking about here as most have good knowledge. Now their opinions are a different story ?

[Stuart]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

This is completely fair enough & I know I'm guilty of it.

Thing is though, the branch of social psychology which the halo effect comes from also finds the opposite mechanism to be true -  the 'forked tail' effect, whereby people who have a negative opinion of someone or something allow that view to spill over into viewing other aspects of them negatively. 

Trying to be reflexive about it, I know I've been overly defensive of TM when it comes to some of the individual decisions that he has made because I think overall he's been great. I also think TM critics have at times been guilty of the reverse though; don't like some aspect of his management, and that has spilled over into over-reactions about things which are either unrelated or not that important.

This is a really good case in point. I personally think it's a good thing that TM is the sort of manager which looks after players in Gladwin's position, but I know full well that if TM had decided to let him go as we all expected, I'd be backing him (in fact I'd probably not even give it a seconds thought). Equally, fans may think rightly or wrongly that TM has been too loyal in his selection of his favourites, and the fact that he's is keeping on Gladwin is demonstrative of why we always be hamstrung with Mowbray in charge because of his blind-spots (even though keeping on in injured player for a few months before letting them go has little bearing on how loyal he has been to players who actually get on the pitch, and doesn't point at all to how the rest of the summer is going to go recruitment-wise). Would TM have got the credit for being ruthless for letting Gladwin go (or Conway & the Canadian for that matter)? I doubt it. 

This obviously gets 10 times worse on a message board where people get even more entrenched in their positions, but I think the irrationality can be found across the piece, not just those of us who get starry eyed about the manager. 

Good post.

Interesting the bit in bold, and very honest.

For me, the club is the shirt, the badge and the fact that it represents the town that I was born in, and still live in. It’s mine. I don’t own it but it’s mine. I want it to be as successful as it possibly can be because it represents me. There are people who I meet now who haven’t even heard of us. Thanks Venkys!

Managers, players, suits, even owners come and go. There are some I love and some I hate but none of them are beyond question. If I don’t think they are doing the right thing for my club I’ll curse and I’ll moan but as long as people stay civil and we have the ignore function, for the “ad hominees”, all is well. ??

[philipl]

16 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

This is completely fair enough & I know I'm guilty of it.

Thing is though, the branch of social psychology which the halo effect comes from also finds the opposite mechanism to be true -  the 'forked tail' effect, whereby people who have a negative opinion of someone or something allow that view to spill over into viewing other aspects of them negatively. 

Trying to be reflexive about it, I know I've been overly defensive of TM when it comes to some of the individual decisions that he has made because I think overall he's been great. I also think TM critics have at times been guilty of the reverse though; don't like some aspect of his management, and that has spilled over into over-reactions about things which are either unrelated or not that important.

This is a really good case in point. I personally think it's a good thing that TM is the sort of manager which looks after players in Gladwin's position, but I know full well that if TM had decided to let him go as we all expected, I'd be backing him (in fact I'd probably not even give it a seconds thought). Equally, fans may think rightly or wrongly that TM has been too loyal in his selection of his favourites, and the fact that he's is keeping on Gladwin is demonstrative of why we always be hamstrung with Mowbray in charge because of his blind-spots (even though keeping on in injured player for a few months before letting them go has little bearing on how loyal he has been to players who actually get on the pitch, and doesn't point at all to how the rest of the summer is going to go recruitment-wise). Would TM have got the credit for being ruthless for letting Gladwin go (or Conway & the Canadian for that matter)? I doubt it. 

This obviously gets 10 times worse on a message board where people get even more entrenched in their positions, but I think the irrationality can be found across the piece, not just those of us who get starry eyed about the manager. 

Post of the season for me.

[tomphil]

18 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

All this talk of retained lists reminds me about Whittingham. He never announced he was retiring, but he hasn't found a club since here. A bit strange 

Last time he wanted a player with technical ability and experience on the ball that's what we ended up with and he's another who ended being paid off.

Not sure spotting a midfielder is Mowbrays strong point hence why I think he'll continue to work his way through the Evans/Smallwood/Travis triangle next season. Gives him chance to rotate according to opposition which he loves and keeps available the cautious approach which he also loves.

He dropped on a very good midfielder in Reed but was terrified of giving him a regular slot in his real position so that says a lot I think but we don't want any Whittingham types again anyway.

[Stuart]

44 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Last time he wanted a player with technical ability and experience on the ball that's what we ended up with and he's another who ended being paid off.

Not sure spotting a midfielder is Mowbrays strong point hence why I think he'll continue to work his way through the Evans/Smallwood/Travis triangle next season. Gives him chance to rotate according to opposition which he loves and keeps available the cautious approach which he also loves.

He dropped on a very good midfielder in Reed but was terrified of giving him a regular slot in his real position so that says a lot I think but we don't want any Whittingham types again anyway.

The lack of trust in some of our more enthusiastic players, Reed being one and Travis eventually getting the position, once we were safe.

I wonder if it is to avoid raising expectations? Reed being played out wide to accommodate the crab brothers was the daftest decision last season but ultimately effective in keeping us up. Even though more ambition could have seen us competing with Derby.

Mowbray seems to steadfastly stick to his targets and ignores the urge to raise his standards during the season. Promotion, when we could have been champions; safety, when we could have pushed on. This is why I was hopeful when he came out and said that this season’s target was promotion. To do that he has to win football matches rather than draw them and to do that he needs to cut away the deadwood and barnacles that are slowing us down. A solid non-nonsense defence and an attacking mindset.

[tomphil]

37 minutes ago, Stuart said:

The lack of trust in some of our more enthusiastic players, Reed being one and Travis eventually getting the position, once we were safe.

I wonder if it is to avoid raising expectations? Reed being played out wide to accommodate the crab brothers was the daftest decision last season but ultimately effective in keeping us up. Even though more ambition could have seen us competing with Derby.

Mowbray seems to steadfastly stick to his targets and ignores the urge to raise his standards during the season. Promotion, when we could have been champions; safety, when we could have pushed on. This is why I was hopeful when he came out and said that this season’s target was promotion. To do that he has to win football matches rather than draw them and to do that he needs to cut away the deadwood and barnacles that are slowing us down. A solid non-nonsense defence and an attacking mindset.

He did it in patches this season but seems to bottle it every time an attacking approach back fires but in some of those away games where we were cruising then ended hanging on or got beat he himself made some terrible calls in chopping and changing things around.

I think when you play a more attacking game and use the more bold players especially in the middle you will get caught out a time or two and you will take the odd pasting but you've got to stick with it imo. Changing things around every week and in games several times only serves to add to confusion but it's a trademark with Mowbray wherever he's been and so I really can't see it changing now.

I think to be really successful here he'll need a large squad with some quality in every area to pick from and allow him to get away with the constant adjustments a bit like us in league 1 last year. Apart from preferring the two defensive mids and counter attacking he doesn't really have a core style he sticks to like the Bruces, Dyche  and the like where they tend to stick to the same methods, best first 11 and put guys in place who can operate in those methods. They're all accused of being boring but they tend to get teams promoted.

[roversfan99]

8 hours ago, Stuart said:

The lack of trust in some of our more enthusiastic players, Reed being one and Travis eventually getting the position, once we were safe.

I wonder if it is to avoid raising expectations? Reed being played out wide to accommodate the crab brothers was the daftest decision last season but ultimately effective in keeping us up. Even though more ambition could have seen us competing with Derby.

Mowbray seems to steadfastly stick to his targets and ignores the urge to raise his standards during the season. Promotion, when we could have been champions; safety, when we could have pushed on. This is why I was hopeful when he came out and said that this season’s target was promotion. To do that he has to win football matches rather than draw them and to do that he needs to cut away the deadwood and barnacles that are slowing us down. A solid non-nonsense defence and an attacking mindset.

You are reading far too much into it I suspect. The lack of importance/effort placed by Mowbray on a potential League 1 title, I share your frustration in.

But playing Reed wide was something he did because as he said, Evans and Smallwood "played the position better." Something I disagreed with at the time, but I put it down to over-cautiousness and over-loyalty to those 2 in question rather than trying to lower expectations, that seems incredibly far-fetched.

The shackles did come off once relegation was mathematically impossible, notably the defensive winger nonsense was knocked on the head, why would Mowbray even give the supporters a glimpse of a potentially both more exciting and more effective side when nothings to play for, only furthering the evidence of those who felt that he had made incorrect decisions earlier in the season, if he was primarily managing expectations?

By doing that at the end of the season, hes left himself wide open to judgement. If at the start of next season he returns back to old ways, defensive wingers, Smallwood and Evans etc, then we really can worry.

[DE.]

Mowbray is just a naturally overcautious manager, he'd rather play it safe than potentially leave the team in a vulnerable position by exposing gaps for the opposition to exploit. It's a commendable attitude in some respects, but there are two major issues I have with his approach.

Firstly, he seems to wait far too long to change things. We went on an embarrassingly long run of terrible form from the beginning of February before he finally made some serious changes which brought instant results. At that point he had little choice but to continue on with it, and since we were safe at that point and had no realistic chance of reaching the playoffs there was no real pressure if we got a couple of really bad results along the way.

Secondly, he is far too cautious against teams which are inferior to us - particularly at home. Because of his overthinking we rarely start off on the front foot against teams we should be beating. I have no issue with taking caution away from home (although our away form this season was pretty poor anyway) or at home against the better teams in the division, but I don't understand it when we're playing teams like Rotherham, Ipswich, Millwall, etc. Those are situations where he needs to be more courageous if he has serious ambitions of getting promoted.

I'm still hopeful that the tail end of the season will have opened the manager's eyes a bit, and with a decent summer we may have a good 19/20 season. A poor summer window and no lessons learned from last season could see us in some serious trouble though. At this point I really feel like it could go either way. 

[Rogerb]

On 10/05/2019 at 10:02, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just as an aside - Paul Caddis released at Bradford and Jordan Slew released at Boston ( Lincs ).

Jordan Slew appeared for Chorley last night against PNE in the Lancs senior cup!