Bolton Wanderers Unpaid Staff Need Food bank.

[Mattyblue]

Our friendly last month could be the last ever game at Gigg Lane.

[only2garners]

I remember back in the season before we won the league (or maybe the League winning season, I forget), I “acquired” some tickets for the away game at Old Trafford through a Bury fan at work who got them straight from Neville Neville. They turned out to be with the United players’ wives and an injured Dion Dublin in one corner. We were robbed that day with a Paul Ince equaliser in Fergie time from a corner that never should have been.

So I do have a soft spot for Bury.

[old darwen blue]

4 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Let’s take a moment to acknowledge  the dire plight of two neighbors due to awful ownership  that could put put them out of business imminently.

Let’s recognize that for all the false starts and bad decisions more from naivety that anything else, our owners have stayed the course and given our manager money to spend. 

We can dream of 1995 but time is now and I am happy that we are building something here not having it destroyed in front of our very eyes with lifelong fans chained to the railings outside. 

Yay, good old Venkys, rah rah rah. Remind me again where we were before they began the destruction of our club?

Oh and all the sky tv millions we have missed out on. 

Oh and them purple b*stards taking our place?

 

?

[JHRover]

12 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Let’s take a moment to acknowledge  the dire plight of two neighbors due to awful ownership  that could put put them out of business imminently.

Let’s recognize that for all the false starts and bad decisions more from naivety that anything else, our owners have stayed the course and given our manager money to spend. 

We can dream of 1995 but time is now and I am happy that we are building something here not having it destroyed in front of our very eyes with lifelong fans chained to the railings outside. 

I get where you are coming from but again it seems too simplistic to me to simply point towards two local clubs in dire straits and then say we should be happy with our situation because at least Venkys are paying the bills.

There has to be some recognition that the problems facing Bury and Bolton are each born from unusual circumstances. Not simply the case of losing money and owners not putting it in.

Bolton have gone into admin because they owe money left, right and centre to all sorts of creditors and havent been able to plug the gap with player sales. To my knowledge our only creditor(s) are Venkys and the Bank of India (who lend money to Venkys because of their business dealings and not to Rovers as a football club/also secured on assets in India?) What that all means is the only people who could put us into admin at the moment are Venkys themselves or the Bank (again they appear more interested in Venkys and their Indian assets than us). At Bolton they've had multiple owners, HMRC, loans, and the combination of those over several years has tipped them over the edge.

At Bury I think there has been some serious financial wrongdoing there behind the scenes and it seems the events of the last 8-9 months are a cover up operation to prevent it becoming full public knowledge. Very dodgy stuff. In any event their stature, income and assets as a club are very different to ours. Even then there is interest in buying them which is being rejected by their owner demanding too much for his shares.

[speeeeeeedie]

16 hours ago, bigbrandjohn said:

Let’s take a moment to acknowledge  the dire plight of two neighbors due to awful ownership  that could put put them out of business imminently.

Let’s recognize that for all the false starts and bad decisions more from naivety that anything else, our owners have stayed the course and given our manager money to spend. 

We can dream of 1995 but time is now and I am happy that we are building something here not having it destroyed in front of our very eyes with lifelong fans chained to the railings outside. 

"I'm lucky. My boyfriend only hits me. I've not been murdered like those other 2 girls."

I see where you are coming from, it's the old "it could be worse" thought. However it's still not good. At any moment Venkys can turn the tap off and it's curtains for Rovers.

[bigbrandjohn]

At any moment any club owner can do that and it’s curtains. Many cut their losses fairly quickly, acknowledge that football is not their core competence and leave their club in the Tom tit. 

Thats all all I am saying. 

[speeeeeeedie]

25 minutes ago, bigbrandjohn said:

At any moment any club owner can do that and it’s curtains. Many cut their losses fairly quickly, acknowledge that football is not their core competence and leave their club in the Tom tit. 

Thats all all I am saying. 

Fair enough. You bring up a good point. How many clubs are wholly beholden to their owners? A lot of Prem clubs should be OK if the owner walks. Certainly Burnley, they are swimming in cash.

I'm sure that the lower down the leagues you go the worse it gets.

Edited August 22, 2019 by speeeeeeedie

[lraC]

I’ve said it until I am blue in the face. Do not trust Venkys. Have they ever explained what was going on in the early days and why for example, Coyle was from the same stable? People say they were badly advised, but too many things point to them being complicit.

 

until the come out and explain, what was and probably still is going on, I will remain fearful of the clubs future.

[Hanks]

4 minutes ago, lraC said:

I’ve said it until I am blue in the face. Do not trust Venkys. Have they ever explained what was going on in the early days and why for example, Coyle was from the same stable? People say they were badly advised, but too many things point to them being complicit.

 

until the come out and explain, what was and probably still is going on, I will remain fearful of the clubs future.

I don't think they will ever explain, possibly there is also an NDA on the result of the court action they took against Kentaro. The small matter of pride and embarrassment at their own failings would also make them reluctant to come clean.

 

https:/lymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html/www.dai

Edited August 22, 2019 by Hanks
attachment

[arbitro]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17856251.efl-cancel-scheduled-meeting-bolton-bury-fans/

The caring EFL have cancelled a meeting scheduled today with supporter groups from Bolton, Bury, Blackpool and Coventry to discuss ownership issues. Before I read the article I knew the Bury issue would be the excuse for cancelling. Do they not have other executive officers who could have attended?

Once again the EFL paying lip service to the lifeblood of the game.

[Mattyblue]

Heard an interview with the EFL acting Chief Exec on Five Live earlier, thought she came across very poorly.

Bury ‘are an isolated incident’,

‘what about Bolton!?’ ‘Totally different issue’

’Our fit and proper test is sound’ ‘strong governance’ ‘more popular than ever with fans’, ‘no chance any other club gets into trouble this season’.

Appalling organisation.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Mattyblue

[den]

They are an appalling organisation Matty. Easy street they’re living on. They take responsibility for what exactly?

[Mattyblue]

Fixture organisers, nothing more. 

They are akin to the Blackburn & Darwen dominos league.

[Dreams of 1995]

Many people who I say this to call me a conspiracy nut but it is firmly my belief that the EFL, FA and EPL have a national plan to turn English football to a sport almost akin to American Football, in that there will be a few massive clubs as opposed to the 92 currently. These clubs will be city based and to hell with the towns that pioneered the game.

I have it on very, very good authority that the EPL have an enormous budget in place to bankroll any of their big clubs should they go bust. It almost gives them the invincibility large banks have when it comes to reckless behaviour.

Should we be talking about Man Utd or Liverpool right now there'd have been a bail out of sorts, with the leagues doing all they can to keep the gates open. As it stands founding members of the football league are treat with disdain. To hell with the all three of the organisations.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Dreams of 1995

[Waggy76]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Many people who I say this to call me a conspiracy nut but it is firmly my belief that the EFL, FA and EPL have a national plan to turn English football to a sport almost akin to American Football, in that there will be a few massive clubs as opposed to the 92 currently. These clubs will be city based and to hell with the towns that pioneered the game.

I have it on very, very good authority that the EPL have an enormous budget in place to bankroll any of their big clubs should they go bust. It almost gives them the invincibility large banks have when it comes to reckless behaviour.

Should we be talking about Man Utd or Liverpool right now there'd have been a bail out of sorts, with the leagues doing all they can to keep the gates open. As it stands founding members of the football league are treat with disdain. To hell with the all three of the organisations.

Wouldn't surprise me at all , put SKY into the mix with their embarrassing adulation of Leeds !!!

[MCMC1875]

18 hours ago, Hanks said:

I don't think they will ever explain, possibly there is also an NDA on the result of the court action they took against Kentaro. The small matter of pride and embarrassment at their own failings would also make them reluctant to come clean.

 

https:/lymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html/www.dai

Correct link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Great article by Nick Harris.

 

"One afternoon in July 2011 my phone rings. It is Mrs Desai. 'Shall we buy Raul from Schalke in Germany?' she asks. The Spaniard was available, perhaps for nothing, on around £6m a year.

'If you don't trust your manager or CEO, get replacements you do trust to help,' I told her, not for the first time."

"So why was Mrs Rao asking me for transfer advice in the first place? Because her faith in highly-paid football 'experts' was destroyed within months.

Anderson was one advisor, talking openly about being based at the training ground through January 2011's transfer window. He had also been involved, for a fee, in the introduction of Venky's to the Jack Walker Trust in 2010.

Separately, the day that takeover was complete, a contract came into play whereby Kentaro provided Venky's with 'consultancy services' including the hiring and firing of managers and players.

By spring 2011, Venky's believed they'd taken the wrong path. Anderson was put 'on the outside' and Venky's kept Kean on but embarked on a bitter secret legal dispute against Kentaro."

 

"In March 2011 the FA had written asking who was running Blackburn. The Rovers secretary, Andrew Pincher, wrote to the FA's head of integrity, David Newton, to disclose the Kentaro contract.

Pincher also confided to the FA that Venky's received consultancy services on their takeover from Brunei-based firm Crescendo Sports Limited. He wrote: 'An officer of SEM Limited, Jerome Anderson, has a connection with Crescendo.' 

Anderson's alleged involvement was a potential conflict of interest if acting both for a potential buyer of a club and the seller. He denied any link to Crescendo or any involvement in Kentaro's contract with Venky's.

The FA considered whether Anderson contravened regulations prohibiting agents from influencing club affairs. He denied the sacking of Sam Allardyce and hiring of Kean were his ideas, and said the signing of SEM players including his son, Myles, were nothing to do with him."

 

"As Blackburn were relegated to the Championship in 2012, Mrs Desai trusted nobody but employees from home. One of them, a trainee hatcheries manager, was even sent to France to knock on club doors to inquire about transfer targets, in order to avoid rip-off agents. The ploy failed."

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by MCMC1875

[den]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Correct link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Good to catch up on how the club was leased out to Anderson. It’s hard to believe those things happened. It’s also hard to believe our owners are now football savvy enough not to be mislead again.

[lraC]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Correct link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Plenty of fans have decided to bury their heads in the sand and just suppport the team. As mentioned on this thread, lots of this will be hidden forever, but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I will never accept as some people do, that we would have eventually been relegated anyway, so it doesn’t matter. The owners and the other people involved, cost the club our premier league place. Had we remained there for another couple of seasons, we would now be enjoying the even greater riches now on offer, instead of surviving and striving to get back.

 

Venkys  ruined our club, so let’s not forget 

[old darwen blue]

31 minutes ago, den said:

Good to catch up on how the club was leased out to Anderson. It’s hard to believe those things happened. It’s also hard to believe our owners are now football savvy enough not to be mislead again.

Cough......

Coyle

[arbitro]

Andy Holt's take on the whole farce.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/football/shakers/17856447.accrington-owner-andy-holt-calls-efl-wake-problems/

[DE.]

So assuming Bolton's game against Ipswich goes ahead tomorrow, does that mean they now have the power to just cancel midweek fixtures if it doesn't suit them?

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, DE. said:

So assuming Bolton's game against Ipswich goes ahead tomorrow, does that mean they now have the power to just cancel midweek fixtures if it doesn't suit them?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Its bizarre.

[philipl]

2 hours ago, MCMC1875 said:

Correct link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4480682/Who-guilty-trashing-historic-club-like-Blackburn.html

Great article by Nick Harris.

 

"One afternoon in July 2011 my phone rings. It is Mrs Desai. 'Shall we buy Raul from Schalke in Germany?' she asks. The Spaniard was available, perhaps for nothing, on around £6m a year.

'If you don't trust your manager or CEO, get replacements you do trust to help,' I told her, not for the first time."

"So why was Mrs Rao asking me for transfer advice in the first place? Because her faith in highly-paid football 'experts' was destroyed within months.

Anderson was one advisor, talking openly about being based at the training ground through January 2011's transfer window. He had also been involved, for a fee, in the introduction of Venky's to the Jack Walker Trust in 2010.

Separately, the day that takeover was complete, a contract came into play whereby Kentaro provided Venky's with 'consultancy services' including the hiring and firing of managers and players.

By spring 2011, Venky's believed they'd taken the wrong path. Anderson was put 'on the outside' and Venky's kept Kean on but embarked on a bitter secret legal dispute against Kentaro."

 

"In March 2011 the FA had written asking who was running Blackburn. The Rovers secretary, Andrew Pincher, wrote to the FA's head of integrity, David Newton, to disclose the Kentaro contract.

Pincher also confided to the FA that Venky's received consultancy services on their takeover from Brunei-based firm Crescendo Sports Limited. He wrote: 'An officer of SEM Limited, Jerome Anderson, has a connection with Crescendo.' 

Anderson's alleged involvement was a potential conflict of interest if acting both for a potential buyer of a club and the seller. He denied any link to Crescendo or any involvement in Kentaro's contract with Venky's.

The FA considered whether Anderson contravened regulations prohibiting agents from influencing club affairs. He denied the sacking of Sam Allardyce and hiring of Kean were his ideas, and said the signing of SEM players including his son, Myles, were nothing to do with him."

 

"As Blackburn were relegated to the Championship in 2012, Mrs Desai trusted nobody but employees from home. One of them, a trainee hatcheries manager, was even sent to France to knock on club doors to inquire about transfer targets, in order to avoid rip-off agents. The ploy failed."

 

This should be pinned prominently.

The culpability of the football authorities in not enforcing their own rules is massive. Don't think that the letters written by John Williams and Tom Finn were not also massive wake -up calls which went totally unheeded by the EPL and FA.

The Raos themselves probably had just cause for complaints against the EPL and FA. The fact they were made complicit in the deception of the original contracts complicated matters but no doubt they had new lawyers engaged after they had been bought Rovers who were capable of reading FIFA, UEFA, FA and EPL rule books. Perhaps it is not surprising at least three third party companies directly involved in the Rovers acquisition have been wound up.

Don't forget there were probably even more explicit contracts which would have handed the club over to the ministrations of Crescendo and Kentaro involving Lawrence Bassini before it was obvious he would not pass fit and proper as the Rovers owner.

Which brings us back to Bolton...

Edited August 23, 2019 by philipl

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

So assuming Bolton's game against Ipswich goes ahead tomorrow, does that mean they now have the power to just cancel midweek fixtures if it doesn't suit them?

And for that very reason (second instance too) they should have a substantial points deduction imposed, I mean the EFL wouldn’t want to see the ‘integrity of the league’ being questioned, would they?

[lraC]

Just now, philipl said:

This should be pinned prominently.

The culpability of the football authorities in not enforcing their own rules is massive. Don't think that the letters written by John Williams and Tom Finn were not also massive wake -up calls which went totally unheeded by the EPL and FA.

The Raos themselves probably had just cause for complaints against the EPL and FA. The fact they were made complicit in the deception of the original contracts complicated matters but no doubt they engaged lawyers engaged after they had been bought Rovers who were capable of reading FIFA, UEFA, FA and EPL rule books. Perhaps it is not surprising at least three third party companies directly involved in the Rovers acquisition have been wound up.

Don't forget there were probably even more explicit contracts which would have handed the club over to the ministrations of Crescendo and Kentaro involving Lawrence Bassini before it was obvious he would not pass fit and proper as the Rovers owner.

Which brings us back to Bolton...

Its quite remarkable really that the individual who was most responsible for this, got away with what he did. when you look at the way, he manipulated the change of management, brought about signings that had third party ownership written all over them and somehow got his son a premier league players contract, is beyond belief. I shudder to think how much he must have made out of it and like you say, it's not surprising that at least 3 of the companies, involved in the acquisition have been wound up.

There are still people at work, trying to rid Rovers of Venky's as it still feels dirty that they are still involved. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by lraC