Rovers v Charlton

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just now, rigger said:

The one good thing about Bells performance, is that any team post now with his name in it, I just ignore.

He is so infuriating as a player - blessed with good pace, reasonably dribbling - but absolutely rubbish decision making 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[Yonder12]

Just now, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

He is so infuriating as a player - blessed with good pace, reasonably dribbling - but absolutely rubbish decision making 

It's not like he has loads of options either, he's not improved since he joined, he's too laid back and gives of the impression he doesn't really care.

[Blueandwhitemike]

On 03/08/2019 at 19:43, 1864roverite said:

Rubbish the save he pulled off at the end was evidence enough he will do well with us. He is not to blame for the goals we conceded Bennett and rothwell are

Sorry, I'm a bit late here but Bennett and Rothwell weren't responsible for those two goals.

Bennett lost the ball true enough but he was closer to the corner flag than the halfway line, and although it's true he didn't play well I think it is harsh to blame him for that, Downing was behind him covering, Downing ran back all the way to our 18 yard box with Perrington then after he passed it off Downing let him carry on into the box on his own to score.

If you watch back the minute or two prior to the second goal again both Mulgrew and Bell defend terribly, CM being bullied and easily turned and Bell being all over the shop and then not paying attention to C Gallagher which led to him almost scoring and winning the corner from which they eventually scored.  Rothwell's poor clearance didn't help that's true but then we failed to defend the ball into the box so I think putting all the blame on him is ridiculous.

Walton wasn't terrible but wasn't great and one decent save is not evidence that he is good, especially considering the number of great saves Raya made.

I'm still angry with TM for the same reasons as everyone else.  Mulgrew was not very good at Bury missing a couple of headers but that was preseason, unfortunately, he was even worse on Saturday and I'm surprised he didn't give more free-kicks away with his hand in Taylor's face on several occasions when challenging for headers.  It's sad but I'd rather see Magloire or Grayson given a chance ahead of him now as at least they might improve.  I thought Mulgrew's all-round performance was really poor and I doubt he'll get any better.

Bell was really poor as well, I know @Paul Mani seems to think there's a player in there and some others think he has potential but he's 25 and just doesn't look like he has any defensive nous at all, I find it hard to believe he got into the league one team of the year.  Even at this late stage, I'd happily let those two go for nothing.

Bennett has looked ok sometimes at right-back but too many times has looked rubbish as he did versus Charlton but he's not a full-back and I think it is unfair for TM to keep playing him there and harsh to criticize him too much.

I've not seen it mentioned much but when Rothwell and Graham came on we changed formation to this hybrid 4-3-3 that Sharp had mentioned and it didn't work.  Has Dack at false 9 ever worked?  I do understand it might take a little time for new systems to work but I'm not optimistic about this one and I'm worried that TM will keep trying it and we will suffer from that.  I don't think it suits Dack, Graham or Gallagher.

I know some have said we didn't take the chances we created or create enough good quality chances and that's as much the reason we lost but I think it's a lot more understandable that it might take a little time for it to gel in attack than defense so I'm willing to cut them a little more slack for that.

I thought Johnson was excellent, won lots of headers, played some very nice passes and held on to the ball well in some difficult positions.

 

[1864roverite]

The problem with Bennett was that he lost the ball then went chasing it like a mad dog across the park. He got himself so far out of position that when the cross came in there was a free Charlton player just waiting for the tap in ! If only he had thought about just getting back into position - that is a simple bit of footballing know how!

 

Goal 2 came about because of Rothwell failing to clear the ball properly, I am sure it was him. Instead of whacking it down the park he fluffed it allowing Charlton to come straight back on the attack. Free cross free header and then a piece of improvisation by the Charlton number 9 who gets the slightest touch and its in off the post !

 

I am not sure that anyone mentioned the two fluffed 8yard chances Rovers missed ! Basic sitters that ultimately cost us because if they had gone in we would have seen a cricket score and we wouldn't have seen all the moaning going on.

4-3-3 doesn't work for us at all. It has to be 3-5-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 for Dack to be effective.

This of course only my opinion

[Blueandwhitemike]

Just now, 1864roverite said:

The problem with Bennett was that he lost the ball then went chasing it like a mad dog across the park. He got himself so far out of position that when the cross came in there was a free Charlton player just waiting for the tap in ! If only he had thought about just getting back into position - that is a simple bit of footballing know how!

 

Goal 2 came about because of Rothwell failing to clear the ball properly, I am sure it was him. Instead of whacking it down the park he fluffed it allowing Charlton to come straight back on the attack. Free cross free header and then a piece of improvisation by the Charlton number 9 who gets the slightest touch and its in off the post !

 

I am not sure that anyone mentioned the two fluffed 8yard chances Rovers missed ! Basic sitters that ultimately cost us because if they had gone in we would have seen a cricket score and we wouldn't have seen all the moaning going on.

4-3-3 doesn't work for us at all. It has to be 3-5-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 for Dack to be effective.

This of course only my opinion

 

I saw it at the game and I have watched it back on ifollow, he didn't go back to his position because Downing was running with Purrington and if he hadn't stopped running with him he would have been there to stop him scoring.

Rothwell did fluff his clearance but there are several other people just as culpable for that goal.

You're right about the two sitters, best chances of the game, Gallagher and Downing the culprits.

[47er]

3 hours ago, Yonder12 said:

It's not like he has loads of options either, he's not improved since he joined, he's too laid back and gives of the impression he doesn't really care.

I don't think that. I think he lacks confidence. I also think he isn't good enough.

[47er]

31 minutes ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

 

I saw it at the game and I have watched it back on ifollow, he didn't go back to his position because Downing was running with Purrington and if he hadn't stopped running with him he would have been there to stop him scoring.

Rothwell did fluff his clearance but there are several other people just as culpable for that goal.

You're right about the two sitters, best chances of the game, Gallagher and Downing the culprits.

They were also the only 2 meaningful chances of the game for Rovers apart from the goal. Teams rarely convert 100%.

Some excuse for Gallagher , the ball came very hard at him. Any touch it was a goal though.

[DE.]

Just now, 47er said:

They were also the only 2 meaningful chances of the game for Rovers apart from the goal. Teams rarely convert 100%.

Some excuse for Gallagher , the ball came very hard at him. Any touch it was a goal though.

We only had two shots on target so yeah, we'd have needed a 100% coversion rate to draw. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DE.

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

2

Just now, 47er said:

They were also the only 2 meaningful chances of the game for Rovers apart from the goal. Teams rarely convert 100%.

Some excuse for Gallagher , the ball came very hard at him. Any touch it was a goal though.

No excuse at all. He should have at least made decent contact. It may well have got off target but his effort was technically pathetic.

[47er]

49 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

No excuse at all. He should have at least made decent contact. It may well have got off target but his effort was technically pathetic.

You're a hard man! I am trying to be nice. He did indeed make a hash of it. But I thought Downing's effort was pathetic.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, 47er said:

You're a hard man! I am trying to be nice. He did indeed make a hash of it. But I thought Downing's effort was pathetic.

Yes, Downing had a much easier chance. He could have scored with either foot.

[AAK]

Seen a few whispers that we are trying to get Henri Lansbury on loan. We still do lack creativity.

[RoverAbroad]

Just now, AAK said:

Seen a few whispers that we are trying to get Henri Lansbury on loan. We still do lack creativity.

We have Rothwell, Dack, Downing, Armstrong, Chapman, Gallagher (for the last 25 mins on Saturday!), Bennett, Armstrong, Buckley, Travis, Johnson, Smallwood and Evans for our midfielders. Nyambe and Bell could play there. Perhaps Mulgrew should be in midfield now as well, as he's no longer a defender. I've probably forgot some, too. 

As we can field a whole starting XI of midfielders (or almost midfielders) as well as having a couple on the bench, then I'd suggest that anything other than a defender is a complete waste of time and resources.

Nothing against Lansbury, but I really hope those whispers aren't true. 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by RoverAbroad

[roversfan99]

Just now, AAK said:

Seen a few whispers that we are trying to get Henri Lansbury on loan. We still do lack creativity.

Wheres that from? Hope not.

[AAK]

Just now, RoverAbroad said:

We have Rothwell, Dack, Downing, Armstrong, Chapman, Gallagher (for the last 25 mins on Saturday!), Bennett, Armstrong, Buckley, Travis, Johnson, Smallwood and Evans for our midfielders. Nyambe and Bell could play there. Perhaps Mulgrew should be in midfield now as well, as he's no longer a defender. I've probably forgot some, too. 

As we can field a whole starting XI of midfielders (or almost midfielders) as well as having a couple on the bench, then I'd suggest that anything other than a defender is a complete waste of time and resources.

Nothing against Lansbury, but I really hope those whispers aren't true. 

 

I agree, we need defenders and now. However on saturday we lacked ideas, hopefully a one off.

[Yonder12]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

I don't think that. I think he lacks confidence. I also think he isn't good enough.

I disagree problem is he's too confident border line smug and he well and truly can't be arsed.

[aletheia]

No sane Rovers fan expects to win every game and go home every time elated.

But there are things we should expect which do not rely on mega bucks or being a top 4 prem side.

-good fitness/desire/determination

-good tactics

-good scouting

-good transfer dealing

-good substitutions

-good onfield organisation/shape/blend

-sound inspiring management

 

 

[Colt Seavers]

2 hours ago, AAK said:

Seen a few whispers that we are trying to get Henri Lansbury on loan. We still do lack creativity.

 

At this point I'll accept Angela Lansbury if she fancies the number 5 shirt!

[unsall]

Well that’s all 3 relegated teams lost first game, think all 3 will be up there though, at the end of season, takes 6/7 games to see a better picture, albeit took Norwich a bit longer last season.

Still expect a couple of additions before close of play on Thursday, certainly not panicking yet, but plenty on here are. Left back is major problem as we all know, hopefully a new l/b in for Sat, with City lad replacing Mulgrew.

[rossyrover]

Charlton looked a limited but well organised side Rovers looked like nobody knew were to be or what to do in other words completely disorganised without clear directions the man to blame first of all is the manager not individual players.

[Miker]

I am not someone that's in the 'Mowbray Out' camp, but his substitutions in the game were absolutely baffling and he has to 100% take responsibility for that result.

Nothing has changed from last season as far as Bell, Mulgrew and Bennett are concerned. Mulgrew is the main culprit for me because he is the captain and has to shoulder more blame for these abject defensive performances. Towards the end of last season when Williams partnered Lenihan, we were much more stable in defence, even with Bennett and Bell as full backs. So I am hoping Tosin is the answer there.

Bennett was our weak link at the end of last season and I think he was again today. I don't think Nyambe is the answer though. Nyambe, like Bell, have good atheleticism, can run at defenders, but they lack that final ball and more often than not make the wrong decision. Nyambe is younger, so I have more hope that he will develop, but Bell probably won't. For me, they are useful squad players, but they are not good enough to be starters in a promotion-chasing side. 

That worries me as we potentially need at least 2 more defenders brought in. Unless our young players like Magloire, Rankin-Costello and Hart can step up and make a huge impact on our season...

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Well that’s all 3 relegated teams lost first game, think all 3 will be up there though, at the end of season, takes 6/7 games to see a better picture, albeit took Norwich a bit longer last season.

Still expect a couple of additions before close of play on Thursday, certainly not panicking yet, but plenty on here are. Left back is major problem as we all know, hopefully a new l/b in for Sat, with City lad replacing Mulgrew.

The perfect time to play the relegated teams is the first game.

The worst time to play the promoted teams is the first game.

This is partly why I predicted a score draw in this one and warned everyone it wasn't going to be as easy as they thought.

What frustrated me so much is it WAS easy and we still lost. Charlton were shite. Organised defensively but nothing else. Yet we let them swan through us with impunity on the rare occasions they ventured forward. The way Charlton played, we should have won, and failing to draw was simply unacceptable.

The relegated teams are prone to an opening day shock as I said. Then they either bounce back or go on a bad run while they adjust. Fulham? Got a feeling it'll be bounce back. Especially with our defence to lend a hand.

[RoverAbroad]

4 hours ago, Miker said:

Bennett was our weak link at the end of last season and I think he was again today. I don't think Nyambe is the answer though. Nyambe, like Bell, have good atheleticism, can run at defenders, but they lack that final ball and more often than not make the wrong decision. Nyambe is younger, so I have more hope that he will develop, but Bell probably won't. For me, they are useful squad players, but they are not good enough to be starters in a promotion-chasing side. 

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I do see good qualities in Bell. While it's true that by 25 we should be seeing coming into his own as a defender, his development has been retarded at Rovers by being in a mess of a defence and he looks to have no confidence whatsoever. He has pace and a good touch. He makes the wrong decisions time and again, but then that's where we need someone to be speaking to him, getting his chin back up and offering support. Therefore, I'd still like to see him having a run in a back four without Mulgrew and Bennett but instead with some guiding influence. It might be a small chance, but it's more of a chance than Bennett and Mulgrew have of ever improving as defenders. Neither of them are really defenders, Bennett's a midfielder and I don't care where Mulgrew has played in the past, whatever he is he is not a CB any longer.

I doubt we're getting any more defenders in. Why leave it so late to bring Tosin in, never mind anyone else, if it was really a priority this summer?

[philipl]

13 hours ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

 

I saw it at the game and I have watched it back on ifollow, he didn't go back to his position because Downing was running with Purrington and if he hadn't stopped running with him he would have been there to stop him scoring.

Rothwell did fluff his clearance but there are several other people just as culpable for that goal.

You're right about the two sitters, best chances of the game, Gallagher and Downing the culprits.

Downing should have up ended Purrington and taken the booking when he realised he wasn't going to get a proper tackle in.

[Boz]

Briefly, as all of Saturday's match have been minutely scrutinised and agonised over, with all the rights and wrongs and short comings of various players.

Yet what it comes down to at the end of the day is poor coaching and management. The continued failure to get to grips with our dire defensive attitude will cost Rovers and should cost those in charge their posts. Build a solid platform and spine, then add creativity. Conceding soft goals has been indicative of this regime, effectively two goals per match, square pegs or for that matter broken pegs, or not fit for purpose pegs, whilst continuing unabashed is madness.  This requires immediate attention to put right, as any new solutions won't turn this around overnight, the entire squad appear bereft of appreciating danger. 

Finally two quick comments...1) Darragh stop punting aimless balls out wide/out of play, actually look for a simple short pass to either Johnson, Downing, Travis. 2) What has Nyambe done so wrong to not be first pick at right back from this collection of players?