Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Please do explain?

Both players have started for other Championship sides in the past and would certainly feature for the vast majority of teams in this division. To argue that neither one would even feature for any other side in this division is ridiculous. 

50 minutes ago, Husky said:

 

 

A 17th placed Championship team didn't think Brereton was up to scratch and a Championship team that finished 8 points below us last season didn't think Gallagher was worth signing. So you can see where roversfan99 might be coming from.

Or, a team that had several options up front (including one that we also tried to buy last season) decided that the money could be used to strengthen other areas of their squad and that they didn't have the place in their side necessary to develop a younger player. 

Additionally, I'm not particularly bothered by the fact that Birmingham didn't want to sign him permanently considering the fact that they instead decided to bid significantly more for Dwight Gayle. 

[nathan_rovers1]

Just lol. 

we have improved in the 2 full seasons that he has been in charge- why not wait to judge him after 15 games? 

 

[Gary C]

I agree give him a few months to see if it can be turned around. If not then someone can come in, backed hopefully with money in January and see if they can improve things

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, nathan_rovers1 said:

Just lol. 

we have improved in the 2 full seasons that he has been in charge- why not wait to judge him after 15 games? 

 

Why 15? Why not 25? Why not 46?

We have been on a downward trend since the January window closed. We haven’t fixed the problems that caused that - in fact we’ve made them worse. Mowbray has peaked.

[Gary C]

Just now, Stuart said:

Why 15? Why not 25? Why not 46?

We have been on a downward trend since the January window closed. We haven’t fixed the problems that caused that - in fact we’ve made them worse. Mowbray has peaked.

Maybe not necessarily 15 games but give him time and if it doesn't improve then look at dismissing him. This is a forum where people all have different opinions. Yours might not be the same as mine but one thing we hopefully agree on is that we want Rovers to do well whether that be with mowbray or someone else

[rigger]

52 minutes ago, Gary C said:

Maybe not necessarily 15 games but give him time and if it doesn't improve then look at dismissing him. This is a forum where people all have different opinions. Yours might not be the same as mine but one thing we hopefully agree on is that we want Rovers to do well whether that be with mowbray or someone else

Two thing that seems to be uniting most people I have talked to, is the strange obstinate selections in the defence, and strange tactical substitutions. These have nothing to do with the players available, but are purely the managers decisions.

[BRFC4EVA]

I certainly don't subscribe to the idea of getting rid of TM, not at this stage anyway. He deserves at least 10 games or so, any side can loose their first couple.

However I do think that he's under pressure, a different kind of pressure to the last couple seasons. Two major factors.

1.) We didn't have a good 2nd half of the season, we had clear defensive deficiencies, especially away from home. TM had the whole summer to sort out that problem and the jury is out on whether that has done so. I think a back line of Cunningham, Del/lenhian, Tosin and RN is decent, but he will live or die by that choice.

2.) The other part of the situation is that he has built up a pretty capable championship squad and that brings it's own pressure to deliver. It is most definitely his squad, no more inherited dross excuses. A bench of Bell, downing, Chapman, brereton, Graham, evans, Buckley and Grayson is pretty strong at this level in my opinion.

It will be interesting and I am really hopeful that it comes off. Hes a genuine football bloke, I just hope his conservatism doesn't hold him/us back.

 

[arbitro]

I really don't get the arbitrary ten games which seems to me a figure plucked out of the air. In the last two relegation seasons I predicted that we would go down after the first couple of games. Whilst results were obviously important I saw that several players weren't good enough and the managers simply didn't have a plan or the wherewithal to start winning. Whilst we are not at that stage yet I think another couple of consecutive defeats and we will be. 

For me we need two wins in our next three to save Mowbray and stop us falling into the abyss.

[tomphil]

Just now, arbitro said:

I really don't get the arbitrary ten games which seems to me a figure plucked out of the air. In the last two relegation seasons I predicted that we would go down after the first couple of games. Whilst results were obviously important I saw that several players weren't good enough and the managers simply didn't have a plan or the wherewithal to start winning. Whilst we are not at that stage yet I think another couple of consecutive defeats and we will be. 

For me we need two wins in our next three to save Mowbray and stop us falling into the abyss.

I think both manager and squad have enough about them to avoid the drop comfortably even if we lose the next few but it does make a potentially good season has gone up in smoke and this time it will be at this managers door nothing else.

However i totally agree when the writing is on the wall it's there for all to see and the ten games then becomes christmas, jan window etc then we get down to the next 3 and it goes on like that. 

Sometimes the best thing to do is look at the bigger picture/long term goal then plan, source and make the change when safely in midtable mid / late season before the summer scramble starts.

Besides we'll know if/when TM is coming under serious Venky scrutiny because SKY will be all over it and other managers will be making special appearances saying what a great bloke and manager he is.  Then tell me again certain influences have nothing at all to do with this club these days still. Mowbray came via the path of the other managers......

Edited August 12, 2019 by tomphil

[BlackburnEnd75]

I don't we are there just yet, not that I don't have serious doubts.

I also don't think we should stick to some arbitrary 10 game target either. 

Charlton was very poor and worrying, losing to Fulham away with the players they have isn't the end of the world plus the performance wasn't too bad (I know we didn't have a shot on target). Give the defence a couple of games to settle, see if Tony figures out that strikers play better up front then out wide, then see where we are.

I think we've come into the season a little under cooked again, we generally had a good start to last season despite not winning either of the first 2 games so we've got plenty of time at this stage.

Edited August 12, 2019 by BlackburnEnd75

[47er]

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I think we've come into the season a little under cooked again, we generally had a good start to last season despite no winning either of the first 2 games so we've got plenty of time at this stage.

A deliberate plan to build confidence in the players I was told on here! 

[47er]

2 hours ago, Gary C said:

I agree give him a few months to see if it can be turned around. If not then someone can come in, backed hopefully with money in January and see if they can improve things

The tooth fairy maybe....

[nathan_rovers1]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Why 15? Why not 25? Why not 46?

We have been on a downward trend since the January window closed. We haven’t fixed the problems that caused that - in fact we’ve made them worse. Mowbray has peaked.

But then if you are going to do it like that, look at 2 seasons worth of games.... 

Swings and roundabouts... 

[TBTF]

3 hours ago, nathan_rovers1 said:

But then if you are going to do it like that, look at 2 seasons worth of games.... 

Swings and roundabouts... 

I agree with Stuart tbh Nathan.

Mowbray been here over 2 1/2 years now and at no stage has he looked like he is close to being tactically aware or knowing how to set a team up. We have shipped soft goals almost from the start of his tenure and lost or drawn games through silly goals conceded/poor game management or daft substitutions that wreck the shape of the team. I find it incredible that the shape of the team and ''style'' of play goes out the window repeatedly when he makes his subs. This happened in League One though generally teams weren't good enough to exploit it. In the Championship they do. He has been ultra conservative since he walked through the door and had he been bolder he might well have prevented relegation to League One. He remains ultra conservative.

He has publicly commented on 'defenders coming' and knows full well that we can't ship goals like we do. Yet in god knows how many windows , the defensive structure of the team is no different and in some cases neither are the personnel. His obsession with utility players knows no bounds and continually we have players in wrong positions .  

I genuinely think he is a decent bloke at heart but has been pressured into some very strange outbursts of late and in my opinion , I think he is simply struggling at this level to compete tactically or organisationally. He is too old school and as some have said including myself , I think he is a decent chap but a managerial dinosaur . I don't think he has it in him to radically change and deal with the demands and footballing intelligence of a fast moving football world . He is naturally conservative and a steady hand which initially was needed but if you cant progress from that then you start to go backwards and that is what is happening here. He has nothing more in his locker than we have seen. So it is possible , god forbid, that he frustrates and infuriates us even more in the coming weeks.

But The whole Club looks to be behind the curve operationally at many levels , notably our scouting, and the owners aren't savvy enough to see it and therefore we bumble on as a club because he's a decent bloke and appears to be trying his best. The fact that his best isn't good enough is likely to mean that we will need a sequence of horrendous results before anything changes because nobody within the Club will rock any boats for fear of their own positions.

The Club is a cleft stick of mediocrity which most on here can see and which is why there is so much outrage at the claptrap comments they come out with which basically insults our intelligence. Most on here know what they are talking about in general (though there will always be differences of opinion on specific players etc) .We have lived through decades of this Club and know its capabilities, strengths and weaknesses all too well. The people in power at Ewood are largely people who don't have that depth or history with the Club and which is why we find it pretty offensive when they come out with the tripe that they do.

I don't see change coming early; it might happen if we have a total nightmare run of results .The owners wont want the hassle or the cost and the present incumbents won't want to put their heads above the parapet.

Conclusion: Stalemate, tread water at best. Flirt with relegation again at worst. Why? because we are badly owned and poorly managed. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by TBTF

[Rover_Shaun]

13 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

So he's 6 months to go. Surely you have sone inkling already if he's going to make or fail your own personal judgement criteria?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, TBTF said:

I agree with Stuart tbh Nathan.

Mowbray been here over 2 1/2 years now and at no stage has he looked like he is close to being tactically aware or knowing how to set a team up. We have shipped soft goals almost from the start of his tenure and lost or drawn games through silly goals conceded/poor game management or daft substitutions that wreck the shape of the team. I find it incredible that the shape of the team and ''style'' of play goes out the window repeatedly when he makes his subs. This happened in League One though generally teams weren't good enough to exploit it. In the Championship they do. He has been ultra conservative since he walked through the door and had he been bolder he might well have prevented relegation to League One. He remains ultra conservative.

He has publicly commented on 'defenders coming' and knows full well that we can't ship goals like we do. Yet in god knows how many windows , the defensive structure of the team is no different and in some cases neither are the personnel. His obsession with utility players knows no bounds and continually we have players in wrong positions .  

I genuinely think he is a decent bloke at heart but has been pressured into some very strange outbursts of late and in my opinion , I think he is simply struggling at this level to compete tactically or organisationally. He is too old school and as some have said including myself , I think he is a decent chap but a managerial dinosaur . I don't think he has it in him to radically change and deal with the demands and footballing intelligence of a fast moving football world . He is naturally conservative and a steady hand which initially was needed but if you cant progress from that then you start to go backwards and that is what is happening here. He has nothing more in his locker than we have seen.

But The whole Club looks to be behind the curve operationally at many levels , notably our scouting, and the owners aren't savvy enough to see it and therefore we bumble on as a club because he's a decent bloke and appears to be trying his best. The fact that his best isn't good enough is likely to mean that we will need a sequence of horrendous results before anything changes because nobody within the Club will rock any boats for fear of their own positions.

The Club is a cleft stick of mediocrity which most on here can see and which is why there is so much outrage at the claptrap comments they come out with which basically insults our intelligence. Most on here know what they are talking about in general (though there will always be differences of opinion on specific players etc) .We have lived through decades of this Club and know its capabilities, strengths and weaknesses all too well. The people in power at Ewood are largely people who don't have that depth or history with the Club and which is why we find it pretty offensive when they come out with the tripe that they do.

I don't see change coming early; it might happen if we have a total nightmare run of results .The owners wont want the hassle or the cost and the present incumbents won't want to put their heads above the parapet.

Conclusion: Stalemate, tread water at best. Flirt with relegation again at worst. Why? because we are badly owned and poorly managed. 

10/10.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

55 minutes ago, TBTF said:

I agree with Stuart tbh Nathan.

Mowbray been here over 2 1/2 years now and at no stage has he looked like he is close to being tactically aware or knowing how to set a team up. We have shipped soft goals almost from the start of his tenure and lost or drawn games through silly goals conceded/poor game management or daft substitutions that wreck the shape of the team. I find it incredible that the shape of the team and ''style'' of play goes out the window repeatedly when he makes his subs. This happened in League One though generally teams weren't good enough to exploit it. In the Championship they do. He has been ultra conservative since he walked through the door and had he been bolder he might well have prevented relegation to League One. He remains ultra conservative.

He has publicly commented on 'defenders coming' and knows full well that we can't ship goals like we do. Yet in god knows how many windows , the defensive structure of the team is no different and in some cases neither are the personnel. His obsession with utility players knows no bounds and continually we have players in wrong positions .  

I genuinely think he is a decent bloke at heart but has been pressured into some very strange outbursts of late and in my opinion , I think he is simply struggling at this level to compete tactically or organisationally. He is too old school and as some have said including myself , I think he is a decent chap but a managerial dinosaur . I don't think he has it in him to radically change and deal with the demands and footballing intelligence of a fast moving football world . He is naturally conservative and a steady hand which initially was needed but if you cant progress from that then you start to go backwards and that is what is happening here. He has nothing more in his locker than we have seen.

But The whole Club looks to be behind the curve operationally at many levels , notably our scouting, and the owners aren't savvy enough to see it and therefore we bumble on as a club because he's a decent bloke and appears to be trying his best. The fact that his best isn't good enough is likely to mean that we will need a sequence of horrendous results before anything changes because nobody within the Club will rock any boats for fear of their own positions.

The Club is a cleft stick of mediocrity which most on here can see and which is why there is so much outrage at the claptrap comments they come out with which basically insults our intelligence. Most on here know what they are talking about in general (though there will always be differences of opinion on specific players etc) .We have lived through decades of this Club and know its capabilities, strengths and weaknesses all too well. The people in power at Ewood are largely people who don't have that depth or history with the Club and which is why we find it pretty offensive when they come out with the tripe that they do.

I don't see change coming early; it might happen if we have a total nightmare run of results .The owners wont want the hassle or the cost and the present incumbents won't want to put their heads above the parapet.

Conclusion: Stalemate, tread water at best. Flirt with relegation again at worst. Why? because we are badly owned and poorly managed. 

Nail, head. Mowbray is the symptom not the cause.

The only way I can see Venkys stumbling upon giving us a shot at the play offs is through sheer luck. Say we're bottom at Christmas and they get rid of TM. There won't be the plan, they'll just stumble around looking for a replacement and DJ will have a few games in charge in the meantime. Fingers crossed he's as good as he's shown with the U23's and he gets the job full time. All of a sudden we'd have a much better shot at the play-offs than we currently have, albeit in the 2020/21 season.

A lot of 'ifs' there but it's the only way I can see us having a shot at the play offs with Venkys in charge.

On that note on Saturday I got talking to the young lad next to me and one of his first statements was "yeah but they're putting a lot of money in" when I castigated Venkys ownership. I had to bite my tongue and give the "yes but they got us in this position" response very calmly as I got the impression I was surrounded by young lads who all felt the same as he did and it could've got a little tense had i responded how I wanted. Blows my mind that people forget why we are where we are it really does. 

[PeteJD13]

47 minutes ago, TBTF said:

I agree with Stuart tbh Nathan.

Mowbray been here over 2 1/2 years now and at no stage has he looked like he is close to being tactically aware or knowing how to set a team up. We have shipped soft goals almost from the start of his tenure and lost or drawn games through silly goals conceded/poor game management or daft substitutions that wreck the shape of the team. I find it incredible that the shape of the team and ''style'' of play goes out the window repeatedly when he makes his subs. This happened in League One though generally teams weren't good enough to exploit it. In the Championship they do. He has been ultra conservative since he walked through the door and had he been bolder he might well have prevented relegation to League One. He remains ultra conservative.

He has publicly commented on 'defenders coming' and knows full well that we can't ship goals like we do. Yet in god knows how many windows , the defensive structure of the team is no different and in some cases neither are the personnel. His obsession with utility players knows no bounds and continually we have players in wrong positions .  

I genuinely think he is a decent bloke at heart but has been pressured into some very strange outbursts of late and in my opinion , I think he is simply struggling at this level to compete tactically or organisationally. He is too old school and as some have said including myself , I think he is a decent chap but a managerial dinosaur . I don't think he has it in him to radically change and deal with the demands and footballing intelligence of a fast moving football world . He is naturally conservative and a steady hand which initially was needed but if you cant progress from that then you start to go backwards and that is what is happening here. He has nothing more in his locker than we have seen.

But The whole Club looks to be behind the curve operationally at many levels , notably our scouting, and the owners aren't savvy enough to see it and therefore we bumble on as a club because he's a decent bloke and appears to be trying his best. The fact that his best isn't good enough is likely to mean that we will need a sequence of horrendous results before anything changes because nobody within the Club will rock any boats for fear of their own positions.

The Club is a cleft stick of mediocrity which most on here can see and which is why there is so much outrage at the claptrap comments they come out with which basically insults our intelligence. Most on here know what they are talking about in general (though there will always be differences of opinion on specific players etc) .We have lived through decades of this Club and know its capabilities, strengths and weaknesses all too well. The people in power at Ewood are largely people who don't have that depth or history with the Club and which is why we find it pretty offensive when they come out with the tripe that they do.

I don't see change coming early; it might happen if we have a total nightmare run of results .The owners wont want the hassle or the cost and the present incumbents won't want to put their heads above the parapet.

Conclusion: Stalemate, tread water at best. Flirt with relegation again at worst. Why? because we are badly owned and poorly managed. 

Superb post, the only thing I would disagree with is if this run of poor results carries on they will sack him, I do not think they would tolerate relegation again. The potential issue is I can see Waggott trying to buy his mate extra games. Surely a Rowett, Pearson , Adkins wouldn't be any worse. Reading the facebook groups so many are blinded by Mowbrays BS and will look to any excuse to justify his continuance as manager.

[TBTF]

Just now, PeteJD13 said:

Superb post, the only thing I would disagree with is if this run of poor results carries on they will sack him, I do not think they would tolerate relegation again. The potential issue is I can see Waggott trying to buy his mate extra games. Surely a Rowett, Pearson , Adkins wouldn't be any worse. Reading the facebook groups so many are blinded by Mowbrays BS and will look to any excuse to justify his continuance as manager.

 

Just now, PeteJD13 said:

Superb post, the only thing I would disagree with is if this run of poor results carries on they will sack him, I do not think they would tolerate relegation again. The potential issue is I can see Waggott trying to buy his mate extra games. Surely a Rowett, Pearson , Adkins wouldn't be any worse. Reading the facebook groups so many are blinded by Mowbrays BS and will look to any excuse to justify his continuance as manager.

Yes like I said I don't think it will come early. I think it will if we have a shocking run. All of which leads us back to the point made by CNHC above.....what the hell do Venkys get out of shoving £20million a year into this money pit ??? A whole separate topic , I know but may be that's just it- as long as it doesn't cost us more than £20m a year and it doesn't give us bad PR like it used to do we will take that. In 10 years time when they are in to the tune of £400 million will we be writing the same stuff????

Absolute mess all round.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, TBTF said:

 

Yes like I said I don't think it will come early. I think it will if we have a shocking run. All of which leads us back to the point made by CNHC above.....what the hell do Venkys get out of shoving £20million a year into this money pit ??? A whole separate topic , I know but may be that's just it- as long as it doesn't cost us more than £20m a year and it doesn't give us bad PR like it used to do we will take that. In 10 years time when they are in to the tune of £400 million will we be writing the same stuff????

Absolute mess all round.  

Good question actually 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

Just now, TBTF said:

 

Yes like I said I don't think it will come early. I think it will if we have a shocking run. All of which leads us back to the point made by CNHC above.....what the hell do Venkys get out of shoving £20million a year into this money pit ??? A whole separate topic , I know but may be that's just it- as long as it doesn't cost us more than £20m a year and it doesn't give us bad PR like it used to do we will take that. In 10 years time when they are in to the tune of £400 million will we be writing the same stuff????

Absolute mess all round.  

I wonder if Deloitte gave them a get out plan as part of the piece of work they did for them. Surely at some point they can't keep losing money on us?

[Stuart]

Just now, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I wonder if Deloitte gave them a get out plan as part of the piece of work they did for them. Surely at some point they can't keep losing money on us?

The $64,000 question...

[FGS5635]

There must be some sort of tax relief somehwere. Or some clever accounting where they move money around the group.

Becasue whatever we think of them they seem happy at this current level or debt servicing.

They keep funding mowbrays signings. There seems no attempt to reduce outgoings to match incomings 1:1

[tomphil]

Most of it will only be 'paper loss' money though i think that is the main point. Pretty sure if they were racking up borrowings to the tune of 170 million it would've gone pop long ago they are just flushing money away in the main they can afford to play with. 

It'll all be stacked on a balance sheet somewhere that works in their favour when it comes to accounting and besides how many of us tot up or keep a list of what we've spent on football, TV subs, petrol and ale for the last ten years and consider it a loss ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

People have been saying that "they write it off as tax" and other such theories for a while now. Yet, I have seen no detailed explanation on this. Is it that simple? I mean they have a lost a fortune and I don't think any creative accounting can offset that fully