Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Crimpshrine]

15 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

In my opinion Mulgrew is past it and shouldn’t have been given a new deal, however that doesn’t mean the captain leaving in circumstances like that hasn’t upset the camp.

Apologies if this has been posted before - Mowbray's explanation of Mulgrew's departure.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4595261/tony-mowbray-charlie-mulgrew-blackburn-wigan/

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

Apologies if this has been posted before - Mowbray's explanation of Mulgrew's departure.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4595261/tony-mowbray-charlie-mulgrew-blackburn-wigan/

Ok, that all sounds fair enough, but then I look at the opening quote again. So basically Mulgrew read his mind, is that the jist of it? 

Charlie was feeling what I was thinking. If his game time was going to be more limited this season, he wanted to play. He wanted more game time

[Tom]

TM: "Our opening games are seeing us come up against teams with ambitions to be at the top end of the table this season. It's tough run of games but we're looking forward to them because it gives us an idea of where we should expect to be."

 

 

We played Charlton at home Tony, where’s our own ambitions?

[Blue blood]

Just now, Tom said:

TM: "Our opening games are seeing us come up against teams with ambitions to be at the top end of the table this season. It's tough run of games but we're looking forward to them because it gives us an idea of where we should expect to be."

 

 

We played Charlton at home Tony, where’s our own ambitions?

Factor in 2 novice managers of teams low on confidence after initial poor results - a great time to play both teams imo. Excuses excuses even when it's to our advantage. 

[philipl]

18 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

All interesting conjecture, but does anyone have any evidence?

MULGREW bust up and ejection that afternoon confirmed by multiple sources

LENIHAN still conjecture

SMALLWOOD toys out of pram at Ewood Tuesday night according to some who saw it

GENERAL PLAYER UNEASE seems to be seeping out

MOWBRAY increasingly isolated within the club is like a bad smell that won't go away

MOWBRAY demeanour haunted- just look at the videos

RICH SHARPE exasperation- look at the occasional tweet which goes out when he can't control himself. A classic about positions players being asked to play after the substitutions v Oldham

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, Tom said:

TM: "Our opening games are seeing us come up against teams with ambitions to be at the top end of the table this season. It's tough run of games but we're looking forward to them because it gives us an idea of where we should expect to be."

 

 

We played Charlton at home Tony, where’s our own ambitions?

Charlton, a struggling Boro with a new rookie manager, Hull on Tuesday night.

Yes some tough games in August, but some winnable ones too...

[Butty]

Just now, philipl said:

MULGREW bust up and ejection that afternoon confirmed by multiple sources

LENIHAN still conjecture

SMALLWOOD toys out of pram at Ewood Tuesday night according to some who saw it

GENERAL PLAYER UNEASE seems to be seeping out

MOWBRAY increasingly isolated within the club is like a bad smell that won't go away

MOWBRAY demeanour haunted- just look at the videos

RICH SHARPE exasperation- look at the occasional tweet which goes out when he can't control himself. A classic about positions players being asked to play after the substitutions v Oldham

What happened with Smallwood?

[Mattyblue]

Trudged off the pitch and went down the tunnel, up to you if you think that equates to ‘toys being out the pram’.

[Butty]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Trudged off the pitch and went down the tunnel, up to you if you think that equates to ‘toys being out the pram’.

Might have just been frustrated with his performance, he may well have thrown a paddy but we can’t say he’s thrown his toys out the pram without knowing for sure... There’s definitely something wrong in the squad at the minute though, maybe TM is feeling the pressure.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Ya, he was probably just frustrated that when given a chance against a league 2 team, he played shite. 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

TM: "Our opening games are seeing us come up against teams with ambitions to be at the top end of the table this season. It's tough run of games but we're looking forward to them because it gives us an idea of where we should expect to be."

 

 

We played Charlton at home Tony, where’s our own ambitions?

Charlton, Hull, Middlesbrough will all be bottom half of the table. Default setting with some is to label every club as tough when that isnt really the case.

[tomphil]

There is definitely a feel to this a lot of the signs are there but as usual it's getting a bit crazy in terms of speculation and theories.

Tony's simply entered that 3rd season syndrome where he's lost his way a bit and his only answer is to repeat the methods he knows but try and present them as something different.  Happens so many times to bang average managers in any division you only have to look at the likes of Steve Bruce who stays one step ahead of the game and keeps jumping ship before he's inevitably pushed at some point.

They go in and stop the rot with their tried and trusted methods then often have a bit of a purple patch before it plateau's out then starts to go backwards.  Usually that's because investment has dried up and maybe one or two key players have been sold.

This seems to be going the other way the more we spend the more we the wheels seem to be ready to fall off, it takes a special kind of odd for that to happen.  This is Venky world though who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

[Dreams of 1995]

Fuck me, I was at Boomtown festival this weekend and missed this Mulgrew leaving. Assumed Mowbray had dropped him.

A very quick decline this past month or so. From being overly critical to the young lads, shocking tactics and an absolute nightmare of a transfer window. There's too much going on for it all to be wrong.

Who knows what's going on behind closed doors at this joke of a club anymore. We may well want Mowbray out but what comes after that is frightening. A complete and utter balls up by all parties.

[Mattyblue]

That’s a bit like when I didn’t know Shearer had left until a nob ender told me and my dad on the ferry back from France... almost 

[Paul]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

I'm not sure if you know that last November Mulgrew was given a new two and a half year deal. To go from an important player, captain and regular into persona non grata in a few months adds credence to the theories.

Don't get me wrong Paul I think he was finished but the speed of his departure without having a replacement for him just doesn't sit right with me.

I think I did know Charlie was given a new contract last winter. I hadn't thought of his departure in these terms and I certainly take your point.

For me his decline as a player has been rapid, as quick as the speed you suggest above. Earlier in this thread it was suggested Mulgrew was costing £1.25m per annum. I wonder if the scenario is Mowbray has decided the new contract was a mistake, there was a routine falling out (it must happen) and then an opportunity arose to shift £1.25m off the wage bill.

It's a shame as Danny and Charlie are easily my favourite players. Proper footballers.

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Apologies if this has been posted before - Mowbray's explanation of Mulgrew's departure.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/4595261/tony-mowbray-charlie-mulgrew-blackburn-wigan/

We will not hear the story from Charlie's point of view, not while we guarantee his wages. Maybe in a book someday.

Meanwhile, we have Mowbray to rely on for openness and honesty.

No mention of why it was done so fecking late in the day, without CB cover, etc, etc, etc but typical Mowbray pointing to the player as being a willing participant when he cannot respond.

If indeed it went as Mowbray says then he should be binned for letting it drag on so long and not getting an experienced replacement in - surely all those long conversations between Mowbray and Charlie did not take place on just a Thursday and Friday at Windows end.

The shit some will believe like the above, like we made 3 or 4 credible bids for CBs late in the window, like we made anything but a derisory bid for Reed on Deadline Day, the list of untruths goes on and on and on and its lapped up.

NOT by me

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

At any other club there would be a post-mortem inquest into the window and how it unfolded. It clearly didn't go as planned so there should be a root and branch investigation into how it could be approached differently to enable progress in future. 

As it is there's far too much of this self-pity 'we cant compete' or 'we tried our best' 'We'll go with what we've got' stuff. Not good enough. Trying and failing wont get the progress required. Doing does. So if the existing structure can't deliver the personnel needed to make progress it needs changing or replacing. 

I have to say the revelation that Venus is negotiating contracts and deals with new signings is far from reassuring. Quite why the assistant manager is spending his time doing that is a worry. 

The more time that goes by and the more missed targets and boring excuses I hear the more fed up I get with things.

I feel we have a low budget management structure throughout the club primarily concerned with saving cash and doing things on the cheap. We've a chief executive who appears to have little power other than to put prices up in his quest to increase income. We've a manager and assistant who appear to have too much power and responsibility for a club of this size and level.

Time we joined the 21st century. No more 1960s 'I am the manager and run the whole club' stuff. 

We need an overarching approach driven by an experienced administrator. Not the managers mate who will agree with everything he does.

How long does this cycle continue?

Every transfer window we talk the talk, set expectations high, promise x, y and a and then turn around at the end of it to a disappointed fanbase and say 'oh well, we tried our best and we'll go with what we have'.

Can carry on for another 10 years doing that. More to it than that.

I agree we should have inquest into why we didnt get targets we want. Whether it was down to transfer fee, wages demands, fees being higher than we thought. 

I dont know why Venus is involved in things like that. 

How does Waggott have little power? Why he is the making the deal? Everyone report to him apart from Pasha? 

Mowbray has said he had nothing to do with Waggott appointment. Do you trust his word? 

You have seen my views on the structure and what I would like to happen. Do you agree my view? 

2 hours ago, Tom said:

TM: "Our opening games are seeing us come up against teams with ambitions to be at the top end of the table this season. It's tough run of games but we're looking forward to them because it gives us an idea of where we should expect to be."

 

 

We played Charlton at home Tony, where’s our own ambitions?

Think he was talking about our opening few games like Fulham, Cardiff, Boro and WBA

[Crimpshrine]

29 minutes ago, Paul said:

I think I did know Charlie was given a new contract last winter. I hadn't thought of his departure in these terms and I certainly take your point.

For me his decline as a player has been rapid, as quick as the speed you suggest above. Earlier in this thread it was suggested Mulgrew was costing £1.25m per annum. I wonder if the scenario is Mowbray has decided the new contract was a mistake, there was a routine falling out (it must happen) and then an opportunity arose to shift £1.25m off the wage bill.

It's a shame as Danny and Charlie are easily my favourite players. Proper footballers.

No way Wigan are paying the full wage bill. I bet they got a good deal that late in the day at the end of the window

[Maji]

Mulgrew shouldn't be a CB. He doesn't have the positional sense to play the role as he has always been a midfielder. However he can pass, took all our set pieces and surely was respected by the squad. For me he would have sat in front of the back 2 in a midfield 3 where his talents would outweigh his negatives.

It's a shame he has gone, he has talents we needed.

[Mercer]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

No way Wigan are paying the full wage bill. I bet they got a good deal that late in the day at the end of the window

Depends how you look at it.

Think Wigan signed 3 players for about £2million or more in transfer fees.

So, you spend £2million on a fee and pay the player say £10k / week minimum over a 3 year contract.  Add employers' NI and over 3 years you have a cost of at least £3.76million equating to at least £1.254million / year.  So coughing up for Charlies' wages for 10/11 months at say £1.1million is not so far fetched at all!

[AllRoverAsia]

10 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

No way Wigan are paying the full wage bill. I bet they got a good deal that late in the day at the end of the window

Totally agree. A free hit for Wigan of a panic by Rovers.

[tomphil]

Mulgrew should have put club before country after the fall out last season and his omission from the team. He should've taken stock and sat out the Internationals this summer to have a good rest and come back fresh to stake his place in the team again maybe he wouldn't have looked shot to bits in the first game.

Perhaps this played a part in the not seeing eye to eye with his boss, little sympathy for either side in this one again it's self made and something from the outside you could see coming for a while.

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, Butty said:

Might have just been frustrated with his performance, he may well have thrown a paddy but we can’t say he’s thrown his toys out the pram without knowing for sure... There’s definitely something wrong in the squad at the minute though, maybe TM is feeling the pressure.

He cost us the first goal too.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, tomphil said:

Mulgrew should have put club before country after the fall out last season and his omission from the team. He should've taken stock and sat out the Internationals this summer to have a good rest and come back fresh to stake his place in the team again maybe he wouldn't have looked shot to bits in the first game.

Perhaps this played a part in the not seeing eye to eye with his boss, little sympathy for either side in this one again it's self made and something from the outside you could see coming for a while.

Good point. That was a row that had been simmering away for quite a while.

An odd situation for Charlie who now it would seem has more of an International future than a League one.

He will never, IMO, appear again in a Rovers shirt whilst Mowbray rules the roost.

I'm not saying he should either as no question his legs have gone but I don't like the way that is used by some as a justification for the way his departure has been handled by Mowbray.

Personally, I think he went to allow Cunningham in, 1 for 1, but also sure Wigan got a good deal.

[Cherry Blue]

Defeat on Saturday v Boro' will surely see the end of TM. Not a fan of his selection, his tactics, or his transfer window failures. On his plus side he got us from Div 1 to Championship, his level.