Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

Absolute no question that he still has the vast majority of the match going crowd.

I find it very interesting that he seems to defy the usual logic of who gets blamed for a struggling team.

In the first half and after their goal I heard fan after fan lamenting how crap we are, how 2019 has been really poor win wise, how many soft goals we concede, how we aren’t going anywhere... yet not a single one joined the dots and pointed a finger at the manager.

[tomphil]

It's an ongoing job we know that and you feel with this manager under this ownership we'll be in permanent transition because collectively they like to fiddle about constantly. 

However the backing they are providing now bobbing about in lower mid/mid table isn't good enough and that's why a lot of fans won't see eye to eye with their 'plans'. Some Rovers fans -probably about 4 or 5k - seem to have it ingrained into them that sitting in the middle of the second tier is enough for a club like us and will bobble along with that come what may.  Every bit as misguided as those repeatedly being accused of feeling entitled.

Truth is it was enough in the 1980's but not season after season these days when you have a competitive wage budget and are chucking fees about of 5 and 7 million.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

We have regressed not progressed,his win ratio is awful,team form is awful...the cold hard facts are there for all to see and digest even if one win in seven hardens the Loins of the easily pleased Mowbray apologists.We are losing supporters on Match day.

We are going nowhere with Mowbray at the helm and like most level headed posters on here I have seen nothing to change my opinion.

We stumble on.

Edited November 3, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[OldEwoodBlue]

45 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Read my posts. I’m saying that he’s not the guy to take us forwards. You, on the other hand are proving that you are so obsessed with the manager that you can’t even give him an ounce of credit, even when he’s obviously done his job.

Maybe you think that by conceding he did a good job for one game that you are somehow strengthening the managers stance. But I think you and Stuart have lost perspective on this. When you can’t be balanced then you seem bitter. Im convinced that even if Mowbray got us into the top 6 you’d probably say it was ‘luck’ or ‘in spite’ of him. Weird agenda.
 

*for the record, I’d still get a new manager in. Sorry to keep repeating but I know you’re desperate to label me a ‘happy clapper’ etc. 

It worked out for him yesterday. 1 in 7 as we all know so no cause to get carried away but credit when it's due.

If we now go on a 10 game winning run then all credit to him.

If that is the usual odd win and we are back to normal for the next 5 games then we can perhaps say with hindsight that he got lucky yesterday.

 

We certainly got promoted from the 3rd division in spite of him. This is when you consider our squad vs the others.

If we get into the top 6 in the Championship with this squad then it will be because of him. At the moment he is the only one thinking that is possible which appears to be highly delusional. We would all love to be proven wrong.

[martonrover]

39 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

We have regressed not progressed,his win ratio is awful,team form is awful...the cold hard facts are there for all to see and digest even if one win in seven hardens the Loins of the easily pleased Mowbray apologists.We are losing supporters on Match day.

We are going nowhere with Mowbray at the helm and like most level headed posters on here I have seen nothing to change my opinion.

We stumble on.

I'm waiting for Steve 'Totally Wicked' Waggott to present him with a three year contract extension on the back of that scratchy win.

[Stuart]

48 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Absolute no question that he still has the vast majority of the match going crowd.

I find it very interesting that he seems to defy the usual logic of who gets blamed for a struggling team.

In the first half and after their goal I heard fan after fan lamenting how crap we are, how 2019 has been really poor win wise, how many soft goals we concede, how we aren’t going anywhere... yet not a single one joined the dots and pointed a finger at the manager.

It’s quite simple. Mowbray blames the players so they do too.

As soon as he is gone those same folk currently saying “where are the doubters now” will say “his time was up”.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Agree with that.  I thought Graham made a huge difference when he came on as did Rothwell.  I thought the manager did OK today with selection, tactics and substitutions.  I really don't see Mowbray leaving anytime soon.  With the supporters still behind him in the main - certainly no "Mowbray Out" chants despite recent results, I suspect that he will be given until the end of this season at the very least and if I'm honest I suspect he will still be here in twelve months time if we finish this season around the half-way mark.

With money having been spent on upgrading the scouting network and with a number of young players coming through the Academy, I suspect the owners will see how things go rather than pay up the manager and backroom staff and then have to shell out for another manager and support staff.  They seem to have bought into the 'long term' project for the moment.

I have to agree that I don't see Mowbray going anywhere anytime soon. 

The Owners seems to be backing Mowbray's plans for the club and the investment in a proper scouting system and academy system. 

Like I said we were discussing possible replacements for him if our poor form continued and who would be making the decisions

[JHRover]

I'm not really sure the owners are backing anything. I just think they quite like Mowbray as a human being (as everyone seems to do who has had dealings with him) and as a result they are comfortable with him being in place. Twas the same with Kean and Bowyer for a good while. The managers that haven't lasted are the ones who haven't had that personal link to Mrs Desai - Berg, Appleton, Lambert and Coyle - but even then it seems they all departed for other reasons than the owners getting fed up - Berg and Appleton were caught up in the Singh/Shaw chaos, Lambert walked of his own accord and Coyle was removed only when Senior was brought in to troubleshoot.

Personally I don't think the owners (Mrs Desai and husband) have any interest whatsoever in results or performances or what the fans want or whether we are delivering on a particular target. They review things bi-annually when Mowbray makes the effort to jump on a plane to talk to them and keep an eye on losses and the amount they need to inject.

Far from having faith in Mowbray and persevering through a bad patch because they believe in what he is doing I just don't think they know or care about what is happening on a match by match basis.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

50 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not really sure the owners are backing anything. I just think they quite like Mowbray as a human being (as everyone seems to do who has had dealings with him) and as a result they are comfortable with him being in place. Twas the same with Kean and Bowyer for a good while. The managers that haven't lasted are the ones who haven't had that personal link to Mrs Desai - Berg, Appleton, Lambert and Coyle - but even then it seems they all departed for other reasons than the owners getting fed up - Berg and Appleton were caught up in the Singh/Shaw chaos, Lambert walked of his own accord and Coyle was removed only when Senior was brought in to troubleshoot.

Personally I don't think the owners (Mrs Desai and husband) have any interest whatsoever in results or performances or what the fans want or whether we are delivering on a particular target. They review things bi-annually when Mowbray makes the effort to jump on a plane to talk to them and keep an eye on losses and the amount they need to inject.

Far from having faith in Mowbray and persevering through a bad patch because they believe in what he is doing I just don't think they know or care about what is happening on a match by match basis.

Bang on, they lost interest in us years ago. If that wasn't the case they'd be at games. This is just a damage limitation exercise.

[Amo]

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Bang on, they lost interest in us years ago. If that wasn't the case they'd be at games. This is just a damage limitation exercise.

Strange they aren't looking to offload us.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just now, Amo said:

Strange they aren't looking to offload us.

This is still what I don't get. However blingingly rich you are, why keep pumping good rupee after bad into a dirty great black hole you have absolutely no interest in?

[MCMC1875]

Just now, Proudtobeblue&white said:

This is still what I don't get. However blingingly rich you are, why keep pumping good rupee after bad into a dirty great black hole you have absolutely no interest in?

It's a mystery. Meanwhile the weeds grow unabated in front of the JW stand.

Edited November 3, 2019 by MCMC1875

[Husky]

Just now, Proudtobeblue&white said:

This is still what I don't get. However blingingly rich you are, why keep pumping good rupee after bad into a dirty great black hole you have absolutely no interest in?

This is the six zillion dollar question.

Here are the possible short answers:

1. Idiocy

2. Corruption

3. Religious/Cultural stupidity.

4. A combination of the above.

 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just now, Husky said:

This is the six zillion dollar question.

Here are the possible short answers:

1. Idiocy

2. Corruption

3. Religious/Cultural stupidity.

4. A combination of the above.

 

Okay, I get idiocy, and they are mega rich, but why keep spending eye-watering figures keeping afloat something that does nothing to enhance your core product.

I don't see any advantages in them laundering money in a country with some of the strictest laws in the world.

Pride? What on earth has their tenure done to warrant them to take even a modicum of satisfaction from what they have done to us?

So, to save face, they piss money up against the proverbial toilet wall? Is that really it. Saving face? Fools and their money, eh?

 

[Amo]

Just now, Proudtobeblue&white said:

This is still what I don't get. However blingingly rich you are, why keep pumping good rupee after bad into a dirty great black hole you have absolutely no interest in?

My best guess would be they don't want to lose face by cutting their losses. They don't use Rovers to advertise their brand, and there's no glamour in owning an ailing, lower-league side that's losing money hand over fist. They're happy for us to plod along as long as the manager flies out to Pune every now and again to bow and scrape.  

[RevidgeBlue]

7 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I pretty much agree with that.  Mowbray still has a huge amount of credit in the bag with a large section of the fanbase - probably the majority of the fanbase in fairness.  I know that doesn't sit well with some on here but I believe that to be the position at the moment.  I don't think defeat yesterday would have led to any questioning of his position in Pune.  At the moment the owners have bought into the project that he has outlined to them and I suspect they will see it out - certainly until the end of the season and possibly well into next season.  

Mowbray is the first manager that they have given a long term contract to and clearly they have a good relationship with him.  I think as long as we stay clear of the relegation places and keep bobbing in and around the half-way mark I suspect they will continue to back him.  Then again, with Venky's you never know but, personally, I would be amazed if Mowbray isn't here at the end of the season. 

It's up to him to improve what we are seeing on the pitch and to bring in the players that we need to play the style of football that he wants.  My biggest criticism of the manager is that he changed the style of play without having the squad of players capable of carrying it out successfully.  Whilst I may not agree with many of the decisions he has made of late I honestly don't feel that a change of manager is imminent.  

I suspect you're right about him not being under imminent pressure from the owners and to me it's the most depressing thought imaginable.

For me there isn't a snow ball's chance in hell that we'll ever challenge for promotion or enjoy any success whilst he is in charge. Yet he keeps pulling out the odd win or two whenever it looks like we're going to sink into really serious trouble and his position might come under scrutiny but as soon as we look a bit more secure and hopeful of pushing on we embark on another bad run taking us to just above crisis point again.

Rinse and repeat.

[MCMC1875]

2 hours ago, Amo said:

My best guess would be they don't want to lose face by cutting their losses. They don't use Rovers to advertise their brand, and there's no glamour in owning an ailing, lower-league side that's losing money hand over fist. They're happy for us to plod along as long as the manager flies out to Pune every now and again to bow and scrape.  

Bizarre isn't it

[Blue blood]

49 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I suspect you're right about him not being under imminent pressure from the owners and to me it's the most depressing thought imaginable.

For me there isn't a snow ball's chance in hell that we'll ever challenge for promotion or enjoy any success whilst he is in charge. Yet he keeps pulling out the odd win or two whenever it looks like we're going to sink into really serious trouble and his position might come under scrutiny but as soon as we look a bit more secure and hopeful of pushing on we embark on another bad run taking us to just above crisis point again.

Rinse and repeat.

This sums up my thoughts although eventually I think we'll succumb and get relegated. Maybe not this year (although who knows?) but if we are hovering around lower mid table for the duration under TM sooner or later when we do a bit worse than our average (which is pretty unimpressive and explained by Rev's post) or get some bad luck then we'll go down. 

 

[DE.]

46 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

This sums up my thoughts although eventually I think we'll succumb and get relegated. Maybe not this year (although who knows?) but if we are hovering around lower mid table for the duration under TM sooner or later when we do a bit worse than our average (which is pretty unimpressive and explained by Rev's post) or get some bad luck then we'll go down. 

 

It's a matter of time before our better players leave or retire. Lenihan, Dack, Travis, Mulgrew, Graham, Rothwell, Holtby and Downing could easily all be gone by the time next season rolls around. Walton, Tosin and Cunningham are also loans and will likely need to be replaced in the summer- obviously Cunningham technically needs to be replaced in January due to his injury, but anyway. We know Mowbray's recruitment is inconsistent at best (and I'm being very generous there) so chances are we will be significantly weaker going into next season. I have little doubt we will face an increasingly difficult battle to stay afloat and if we don't drop this season I think we're prime candidates to go down next season if Mowbray remains in charge. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by DE.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

43 minutes ago, DE. said:

It's a matter of time before our better players leave or retire. Lenihan, Dack, Travis, Mulgrew, Graham, Rothwell, Holtby and Downing could easily all be gone by the time next season rolls around. Walton, Tosin and Cunningham are also loans and will likely need to be replaced in the summer- obviously Cunningham technically needs to be replaced in January due to his injury, but anyway. We know Mowbray's recruitment is inconsistent at best (and I'm being very generous there) so chances are we will be significantly weaker going into next season. I have little doubt we will face an increasingly difficult battle to stay afloat and if we don't drop this season I think we're prime candidates to go down next season if Mowbray remains in charge. 

If you're not moving forward you're going backwards in this game.

[Blue blood]

42 minutes ago, DE. said:

It's a matter of time before our better players leave or retire. Lenihan, Dack, Travis, Mulgrew, Graham, Rothwell, Holtby and Downing could easily all be gone by the time next season rolls around. Walton, Tosin and Cunningham are also loans and will likely need to be replaced in the summer- obviously Cunningham technically needs to be replaced in January due to his injury, but anyway. We know Mowbray's recruitment is inconsistent at best (and I'm being very generous there) so chances are we will be significantly weaker going into next season. I have little doubt we will face an increasingly difficult battle to stay afloat and if we don't drop this season I think we're prime candidates to go down next season if Mowbray remains in charge. 

Even an optimistic best case scenario is pretty horrible replacement wise. Downing, Johnson, Mulgrew, Graham plus the loans all won't be here next season. Now for some that's not a great loss but as you say, given TMs record in the transfer market it's rather risky. And as we found with Mulgrew this season letting someone go without a replacement is worse than even a limited player. 

Of the big signings made not masses have worked out - Dack aside and Downing if you count him as one of our big signings, but Bereton, Gallagher and Whittingham all show that TM isn't great at getting in top quality. Wouldn't like him to have to find the next Dack or Travis say. Also given we replaced Raya with Walton you do wonder as to how well TM can judge players in general. 

And that's assuming he gets the right players through the door he will play them in their proper positions. We wasted Reid, had strikers shunted to the wing, am not sure how anyone would really feel about our chances of development and progress if we evaluate the current transfer record. 

[Amo]

The manager, players, and suits are all passing through. The vast majority of them are just collecting a paycheque, which is fair enough, but it's the fans who are always left to deal with the fallout. Problem is the supporters are depleted, disenfranchised and demoralised. They want their club back but lack the power to do so.

The club is broken. To the outside world we might seem normalized but we all know the setup is bonkers and business in the short past still stinks to high heaven. Managers picking their mates for the boardroom, dodgy middlemen from Timbuktu as 'global advisers', it's no way to run a football club.

What do Venkys get out of owning us? Have we become just another subsidiary of their business empire? Are they waiting for Balaji's son to come of age so he can take over the reins? What a truly frightening prospect. 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Amo

[Blue blood]

7 hours ago, Husky said:

This is the six zillion dollar question.

Here are the possible short answers:

1. Idiocy

2. Corruption

3. Religious/Cultural stupidity.

4. A combination of the above.

 

I'd say 2 and 3 albeit number 2 is probably more likely to hide previous corruption of the early years rather than us currently being a locus of dodgy dealings. Actually there are times when i wonder on this so perhaps a better answer imo is 2 mostly to cover up from early years ownership with the occasional flutter into dodginess. 

As for 3 - culturally the shame/honour thing is huge. Having berriended a good number of international students over the years the shame/honour culture is something we just huge and a totally different mindset to a western one and a primary motivator. 

Put 2 and 3 together and that's huge as they feed off each other, probably leaving us in this way for a very long time. 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

19 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Bang on, they lost interest in us years ago. If that wasn't the case they'd be at games. This is just a damage limitation exercise.

Why in God's name don't they just sell up,write the debt off and then we can ALL move on to hopefully better times.How much more Millions are they going to throw away...where is the business acumen?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

10 hours ago, Amo said:

 Are they waiting for Balaji's son to come of age so he can take over the reins? What a truly frightening prospect. 

 

Hate to say this but I'm sure that is the plan that has been mentioned by Balaji bling.

Said before this awful situation could continue for decades.