Tony Mowbray Discussion

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Because it is not a minor thing that can be brushed under the carpet!

I never said that they should all be in the team, but how does these players existence justify Mowbrays position is what im saying! A new manager would still have them at his disposal, just like the supposed scouting network. There is no evidence that Mowbray would use the extended scouting network well or poorly, and there is no evidence that these youngsters will all become key under Mowbray. The only 2 that have had game time have struggled mainly out of position. So neither strengthens his position at this point.

There is further irony that after the first game v Barnsley that we WON you were insistent on Mowbray being sacked. Following the humiliating defeat away leaving any slim play off hope extinguished with 6 games to go, and with many of Mowbrays flaws in plain sight, notably a lack of defensive reinforcement and a few of Mowbrays poor signings in sharp focus (Breretons petulance, Johnson barely able to move, Samuels inability to score goals etc) and you are now defending him often with illogical arguments.

You want him sack and I dont..end of.

 

 

[arbitro]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

And defenders did come in. Adarabioyo and Cunningham. 

 

That is pretty much what Mowbray said when he was challenged about his 'defenders are coming' quote at this years supporter consultation meeting, in fact he threw Waltons name into the mix as well. The bloke who asked the question quite rightly said that none of them were our players and there was no guarantee of them becoming our players. Mowbray answered that with something like 'that's a fair point'.

And now it looks like we will be in exactly the same position with having to buy or loan three players out of our back five for the first team. From that perspective we haven't moved on at all.

[Mattyblue]

One was quality, one got injured almost immediately, one is *at best* on a par with who we sold... all 3 will be gone in a few weeks.

Big risk having  60% of your defensive unit as loanees.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Football fans have short memories, you're only as good as your last game, even the Utd fans started to turn on Ferguson towards the end, its the nature of the beautiful game.

Tony Mowbray arrived here taking over from probably the worst manager in Blackburn Rovers history and we've had some cr@p under Venkys. He inherited a squad on easy street, unfit, uninterested and not fit for purpose, we went down, not his fault. Behind the scenes we had a bean counter running the show, Mowbray helped bring Waggot to the club, a man that at the very least has experience of running a football club, exactly what we needed.

The following season was a good season for the fans, new grounds, full terraces, big fish in a small pond and promotion won away at Doncaster, great night for all concerned, will live long in the memory, back up at the first attempt, job done.

We are now coming to the end of his second season in the Championship, our league position tells us we are probably going to finish higher than last season, so progress is being made, but not as fast as some would like, me included. His star striker buys have been a disaster, some believe he was forced into the purchase of Brereton, I think he wilfully bought Gallagher, both have flopped so far and he will pay the price is they don't improve, no doubt about that. 

Looking towards next season, he needs to be given a chance until October/November time for me, see if he can't pull this Championship seasoned squad into shape. We have a decent first 11, but they're not good enough to make a sustained challenge for the playoffs, he needs to add some steel, some more experience that will complement the likes of Lenihan, Dack and dare I say it Gallagher.

You look at the football league as it stands, I'd much rather be in Blackburn Rovers shoes than Sunderland, Bolton, Sheff Weds and Wigan, so its not all doom and gloom, is it?

I think it is coming to the point where we need to stop harking back to the League One season. 

It was a good novelty season which saw us move in the right direction on and off the pitch for once. It was a good job done by Mowbray to get us straight back up albeit with all the tools needed to do so.

Of course others have failed to do it - Sunderland, Ipswich - but many others of a similar stature did do it - Bolton, Wolves, Leicester, Norwich, Southampton. 

Either way I don't think that success 2 years ago should entitle Mowbray to endless time and goodwill. 

I think people are concerned because the squad is a complete mess. That is a result of flawed business over previous windows. We do have a good XI when everyone is fit but they never all are, Mowbray loves to chop and change and several are on their way through loans or contract expiry. Add to that the spectre of Venkys cashing in again on a prized asset or two and rather than a few additions we could be facing a revolution.

The fact remains that 3 years into his tenure we are still reliant on players Mowbray inherited at the club - Williams, Mulgrew, Lenihan, Nyambe, Bennett, Travis, Evans, Graham. Other than Dack, Armstrong and Tosin the rest of those signed by Mowbray aren't really up to scratch. 

So really we have to ask if it is going to take us much further enduring another long transfer window to end up with more long term projects and non contributors. 

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

One was quality, one got injured almost immediately, one is *at best* on a par with who we sold... all 3 will be gone in a few weeks.

Big risk having  60% of your defensive unit as loanees.

But unavoidable if the owners insist on investing only in attacking players and insist on 'leasing' the defensive positions.

But of course that's just a conspiracy theory. In reality every manager we've had has just not taken the defence seriously.....

[Mattyblue]

Just now, JHRover said:

But unavoidable if the owners insist on investing only in attacking players and insist on 'leasing' the defensive positions.

But of course that's just a conspiracy theory. In reality every manager we've had has just not taken the defence seriously.....

To double down on that, of the first choice 40% left  - Lenihan and Nyambe, they came through the academy ranks.

[Gav]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I think it is coming to the point where we need to stop harking back to the League One season. 

It was a good novelty season which saw us move in the right direction on and off the pitch for once. It was a good job done by Mowbray to get us straight back up albeit with all the tools needed to do so.

You should never stop harping back to promotion winning seasons JH, we're a small mill town club, promotion doesn't happen very often for clubs like ours.

Look at the dross before Mowbray came in, he's brought a bit of success to a basket case of a club, we should never forget that.

But as I said in my original post, that only takes you so far in this game, we need to see progress in the early part of next season or you could argue his times up. 

[Mattyblue]

‘Big club in a small town‘, if you don’t mind, Gavla 

[Vinjay]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

‘Big club in a small town‘, if you don’t mind, Gavla 

Or how about big club in a big town? This is the type of people I'm talking about on other thread. People who hold the club back and force other fans out telling lies and belittling anyone who objects. Anyone saying stuff like this would be banned from Ewood on my watch. Would that get rid of many people on here? Suppose it would. Good.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Vinjay

[Mattyblue]

Blackburn is one of the smallest towns with one of the smallest catchment areas in the top two divisions, those the facts Vinners.

The club did so much work to make light of that fact, but alas a decade of neglect has thrown away that hard graft.

[Vinjay]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Blackburn is one of the smallest towns with one of the smallest catchment areas in the top two divisions, those the facts Vinners.

The club did so much work to make light of that fact, but alas a decade of neglect has thrown away that hard graft.

 Has applied for CITY CHALLENGE. How many times do people have to say this before it sinks in? Brainwashed isn't too strong a word. Stuff like this has driven me nearly insane in the past.

By being totally different to other clubs perhaps you can EXPAND the catchment area? Is that such a novel concept? 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Vinjay

[Mattyblue]

We did expand it. Venky’s have contracted it. You may have noticed it...
 

 

[tomphil]

41 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That is pretty much what Mowbray said when he was challenged about his 'defenders are coming' quote at this years supporter consultation meeting, in fact he threw Waltons name into the mix as well. The bloke who asked the question quite rightly said that none of them were our players and there was no guarantee of them becoming our players. Mowbray answered that with something like 'that's a fair point'.

And now it looks like we will be in exactly the same position with having to buy or loan three players out of our back five for the first team. From that perspective we haven't moved on at all.

Tosin appeared to be signed as back up for Mulgrew, Lenihen and Derek Williams if we are being honest here. We found out he was ok only after the hand was forced. Not the first time that's happened nevertheless a good back up signing.  Hardly backs up his bold words though as his first choice was to try Mulgrew again and let a converted left back step in.

[JHRover]

29 minutes ago, Gav said:

You should never stop harping back to promotion winning seasons JH, we're a small mill town club, promotion doesn't happen very often for clubs like ours.

Look at the dross before Mowbray came in, he's brought a bit of success to a basket case of a club, we should never forget that.

But as I said in my original post, that only takes you so far in this game, we need to see progress in the early part of next season or you could argue his times up. 

I've no problem with cherishing promotions which don't happen often. But using this as a reason to keep a manager in place more than 2 years after it happened no.

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That is pretty much what Mowbray said when he was challenged about his 'defenders are coming' quote at this years supporter consultation meeting, in fact he threw Waltons name into the mix as well. The bloke who asked the question quite rightly said that none of them were our players and there was no guarantee of them becoming our players. Mowbray answered that with something like 'that's a fair point'.

And now it looks like we will be in exactly the same position with having to buy or loan three players out of our back five for the first team. From that perspective we haven't moved on at all.

I know that's what Mowbray said as yourself and others at the meeting reported that. Aswell as other items discussed 

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Tosin appeared to be signed as back up for Mulgrew, Lenihen and Derek Williams if we are being honest here. We found out he was ok only after the hand was forced. Not the first time that's happened nevertheless a good back up signing.  Hardly backs up his bold words though as his first choice was to try Mulgrew again and let a converted left back step in.

Williams is a centre back who can also play left back. 

Tosin was signed to be 1st choice here otherwise City wouldnt loan him to us IMO. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Tosin was signed to be 1st choice here 

Thought Mowbray always told potential incoming players that nobody is signed to be first choice here?

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Vinjay]

19 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

We did expand it. Venky’s have contracted it. You may have noticed it...
 

 

Jack Walker expanded it. All the club did after his death was to quit marketing across Lancashire and constantly beat people over the head with "small town this, small town that". There's only so many times people can point this out and how ludicrous that marketing approach was. There's no hope for the brainwashed.

[Mattyblue]

Who’s brainwashed? 

Nothing frustrates me more that we didn’t  build on the mid 90s. It doesn’t change where the club is now and the completely different demographics of our area and the much increased competition in the region in 2020 compared to the 1990s.

 

 

[RoversClitheroe]

25 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Tosin appeared to be signed as back up for Mulgrew, Lenihen and Derek Williams if we are being honest here. We found out he was ok only after the hand was forced. Not the first time that's happened nevertheless a good back up signing.  Hardly backs up his bold words though as his first choice was to try Mulgrew again and let a converted left back step in.

Disagree, pretty sure we get penalised if he doesn't start a game.

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

And defenders did come in. Adarabioyo and Cunningham. 

 

Cunningham has already gone and Tosin will be gone at the end of the season. So come the summer we will be back to square although we will be closer to FFP due to the bulk of last summers budget being spent on a striker to play as a winger.

As Tony Mowbray himself previously said you can't build a team on loans. Yet he thought he could build 60% of his back 5 on loans.

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

And we sign defenders next seasons. You know my thoughts on how we spent the 5 mil. So why keep going over it time after time. 

You take your time integrate youngsters into the squad. You cannot just throw them in at the deep end. 

We see about the scouting network in the next few seasons. Your problem is you and others is that bringing in a new scouting system and network takes time to develop and get it work properly as any manager would tell you

It's b0ll0cks.

Bottom line is very simple - if you are good enough, you are old enough.

Ability is relative to the level you are at.

We've seen Phil Jones, Damien Duff, David Dunn etc all thrown in at the deep end and thrive.

On a bigger stage you've seen Mbappe playing in a World Cup Final at 19 and Alexander-Arnold playing in a Champions League Final at 19.  To remind you, ability is relative to the level you are at - and on that score, where are our 18, 19 year old lads good enough to play in our Championship 1st team.  Buckley, Butterworth, Carter, Rankin-Costello and Thompson etc are all going on 21 and if they were going to be 'big players' for us then they would have hammered down regular starting spots in our 1st team now.

I think it's a combination of two things - Mowbray's overly cautious approach and the fact the lads aren't really good enough. 

I think Mowbray refers to youngsters, even 'kids', like Lenihan at 26, Nyambe and Travis both at 22.  There are players at their ages who have more internationaL caps than those three have 1st team appearances!!!  

 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I know that's what Mowbray said as yourself and others at the meeting reported that. Aswell as other items discussed 

Williams is a centre back who can also play left back. 

Tosin was signed to be 1st choice here otherwise City wouldnt loan him to us IMO. 

Williams told Mowbray he only wanted to be considered for center half from now on, last summer FACT

We started last season with Mulgrew playing it was only after a fall out after another poor performance by him that he went to Wigan FACT

Tosin only got his chance because of that and injuries FACT

He was a young lad on loan at West Brom last season playing right back. City might have wanted to know he'd get some games but as MOwbray himself pointed out he won't sign loanees whose club insist they are guaranteed starters - again FACT

 

 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Disagree, pretty sure we get penalised if he doesn't start a game.

I very much doubt that.

[PeteJD13]

So a disappointing result this week following on from Wigan, my personal take on Mowbray in/out.

The way i see it is, that squad isn’t really good enough for top 6 without Dack. He’s got very little money to spend and no room to manoeuvre with FFP. He’s had to rebuild the infrastructure of the club behind the scenes it takes time. Realistically who’s better pulis McCarthy someone mentioned Roy Keane ?‍♂️. Look at our wage structure it’s lower half championship. Yes it’s disappointing but I struggle to see who would do much better with what we as a club have to work with. 

[Mercer]

Interesting watching City / Liverpool match and Pep.

He simply fizzes and it must transmit to the players.

Compare to, IMO, the moribund state of Mowbray, Venus and Lowe (does this guy ever, ever move !?!?). 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mercer