Tony Mowbray Discussion

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Interesting watching City / Liverpool match and Pep.

He simply fizzes and it must transmit to the players.

Compare to, IMO, the moribund state of Mowbray, Venus and Lowe (does this guy ever, ever move !?!?). 

Do you ever stop digging at Mowbray Mercer? Its constant. Have a day off for abit. 

We are mid table Championship club with lower half wage bill and you are comparing us to a club who have the best coach in the world and can sign anyone they want. Very unrealistic Mercer!

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

So a disappointing result this week following on from Wigan, my personal take on Mowbray in/out.

The way i see it is, that squad isn’t really good enough for top 6 without Dack. He’s got very little money to spend and no room to manoeuvre with FFP. He’s had to rebuild the infrastructure of the club behind the scenes it takes time. Realistically who’s better pulis McCarthy someone mentioned Roy Keane ?‍♂️. Look at our wage structure it’s lower half championship. Yes it’s disappointing but I struggle to see who would do much better with what we as a club have to work with. 

If that is the case though surely Mowbray has essentially strengthened his own position by spending so much prior and not really strengthening the squad since promotion, leaving a very imbalanced squad. He doesnt have money now mainly because of the pandemic but he has had money and has possibly wasted the chance to get much closer. We have a very competitve wage budget considering a number of those spending more (Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff, Huddersfield) are not necessarily at an advantage, they are recently relegated clubs full of high earners who arent contributing that they cant shift. Theres no way Mowbray could complain at what he has had to work with. At least 10m net spend post promotion, no key players that he wanted to keep have been sold and hes been able to add plenty of frees who wont have come cheap. 

The likes of Pulis and McCarthy have history for getting the best out of what they have but that wouldnt have to be the only route. Other experienced managers, a younger forward thinking manager from lower down (Ainsworth etc) or a foreign manager.(like Forest, Brentford etc have done)

It all doesnt matter as we couldnt afford to sack Mowbray and he is safe with Waggott having his back.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Do you ever stop digging at Mowbray Mercer? Its constant. Have a day off for abit. 

We are mid table Championship club with lower half wage bill and you are comparing us to a club who have the best coach in the world and can sign anyone they want. Very unrealistic Mercer!

Conversely, do you have ever stop defending him? ?

Agree that Guardiola is not a comparison to take seriously.

[Mercer]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Do you ever stop digging at Mowbray Mercer? Its constant. Have a day off for abit. 

We are mid table Championship club with lower half wage bill and you are comparing us to a club who have the best coach in the world and can sign anyone they want. Very unrealistic Mercer!

Chaddy dear boy, I was comparing the body language, enthusiasm and mental altertness of Pep with, IMO, a moribund Mowbray.

I think it's pretty obvious why our players don't seem fired-up for many of our games.

As for wage bill, Sheff U and Chris Wilder did pretty well on very limited resources.

Face up to it lad, we have, IMO, a manager taking us nowhere and I hate every minute of being on the road to nowhere.

[Mercer]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Conversely, do you have ever stop defending him? ?

Agree that Guardiola is not a comparison to take seriously.

It's about enthusiasm, alertness, motivation.

You needn't be one of the best coaches in the world but at least you can look a bit interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think there's more life on Mars than on our management / coaching bench!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If that is the case though surely Mowbray has essentially strengthened his own position by spending so much prior and not really strengthening the squad since promotion, leaving a very imbalanced squad. He doesnt have money now mainly because of the pandemic but he has had money and has possibly wasted the chance to get much closer. We have a very competitve wage budget considering a number of those spending more (Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff, Huddersfield) are not necessarily at an advantage, they are recently relegated clubs full of high earners who arent contributing that they cant shift. Theres no way Mowbray could complain at what he has had to work with. At least 10m net spend post promotion, no key players that he wanted to keep have been sold and hes been able to add plenty of frees who wont have come cheap. 

The likes of Pulis and McCarthy have history for getting the best out of what they have but that wouldnt have to be the only route. Other experienced managers, a younger forward thinking manager from lower down (Ainsworth etc) or a foreign manager.(like Forest, Brentford etc have done)

It all doesnt matter as we couldnt afford to sack Mowbray and he is safe with Waggott having his back.

We have 16th higher wage budget from the last accounts we can see. Yes 16th. 

When was the last time either McCarthy or Pulis got a team from this league promoted? Genuine question  

Brentford head coach Thomas Frank was 1st coach under Dean Smith before he left for Villa just for record. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Sheff U and Chris Wilder did pretty well on very limited resources.

Very good manager

Well we had a chance to get him before we appointed Coyle and before joined his club he supported as a kid.

We missed out

Edited July 2, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[PeteJD13]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If that is the case though surely Mowbray has essentially strengthened his own position by spending so much prior and not really strengthening the squad since promotion, leaving a very imbalanced squad. He doesnt have money now mainly because of the pandemic but he has had money and has possibly wasted the chance to get much closer. We have a very competitve wage budget considering a number of those spending more (Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff, Huddersfield) are not necessarily at an advantage, they are recently relegated clubs full of high earners who arent contributing that they cant shift. Theres no way Mowbray could complain at what he has had to work with. At least 10m net spend post promotion, no key players that he wanted to keep have been sold and hes been able to add plenty of frees who wont have come cheap. 

The likes of Pulis and McCarthy have history for getting the best out of what they have but that wouldnt have to be the only route. Other experienced managers, a younger forward thinking manager from lower down (Ainsworth etc) or a foreign manager.(like Forest, Brentford etc have done)

It all doesnt matter as we couldnt afford to sack Mowbray and he is safe with Waggott having his back.

When was the last really good job McCarthy same with Pulis did ok at boro but nothing special, we've had people touting the Cowleys in the past again not pulling up trees at HTFC. Our wage budget is competitive for mid table to lower mid table if we finish about that we are essentially punching above our weight. Thomas Franck was Dean Smiths assistant so was already at brentford, Ainsworth again if he wasnt local would people be touting him?. Its not to say Mowbray is perfect he is far from it but we aren't a million miles away with what on paper is a really solid but completely unspectacular squad.   I think he's earnt next season and see how we go from there think Covid will be a bit of a leveller in the transfer market, he's got to be brave let Graham, Smallwood, Samuel etc go

Edited July 2, 2020 by PeteJD13

[oldjamfan1]

25 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Interesting watching City / Liverpool match and Pep.

He simply fizzes and it must transmit to the players.

Compare to, IMO, the moribund state of Mowbray, Venus and Lowe (does this guy ever, ever move !?!?). 

I must say I do agree with you on this particular point Mercer and made the very same point when I saw Mowbray’s lack of reaction to the Brereton sending off the other night. He sat impassively chewing his gum while his opposite number effectively got the lad sent off. Could you imagine Souness or Hughes allowing that to happen?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you ever stop digging at Mowbray Mercer? Its constant. Have a day off for abit. 

We are mid table Championship club with lower half wage bill and you are comparing us to a club who have the best coach in the world and can sign anyone they want. Very unrealistic Mercer!

How many other lower half wage bill teams have spent £12 million on strikers ?

[Gav]

17 minutes ago, Mercer said:

It's about enthusiasm, alertness, motivation.

You needn't be one of the best coaches in the world but at least you can look a bit interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think there's more life on Mars than on our management / coaching bench!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like your mate Coyle you mean?

Who used to jump around and wave his arms about, doughnuts used to motivate the players.

He was as useless as your tips Mercer.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Gav

[Mercer]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Like your mate Coyle you mean?

Who used to jump around and wave his arms about, doughnuts used to motivate the players.

He was as useless as your tips Mercer.

Is that the best you can offer Gav...............................................

[Gav]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Is that the best you can offer Gav...............................................

Wee Dougie was the same, absolutely useless and a racist, need I go on?

How the hell are you by the way? Long time no speak 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Gav

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

Wee Dougie was the same, absolutely useless and a racist, need I go on?

How the hell are you by the way? Long time no speak 

Doing fine thanks - a bit of work here and there, caning the bookies and drinking too much wine!!!!

Hope all is good with you.

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Doing fine thanks - a bit of work here and there, caning the bookies and drinking too much wine!!!!

Hope all is good with you.

Sounds good to me, all good here pal, thanks for asking.

[simongarnerisgod]

according to my source,who i was talking to earlier,mowbray is a bit depressed and feels he`s had enough,he just wants to get back to the north east,apparently he was on about missing walking his greyhound on a misty morning,taking in the crisp air while relaxing on saturday afternoon in front of the telly,it`s only the fact that mrs mowbray wants an extension and a new conservatory that he`s carrying on for the time being

[Blue blood]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have 16th higher wage budget from the last accounts we can see. Yes 16th. 

Could be higher if we hadn't spunked 12 mill on forwards. We also had highest in league 1 but didn't win the league. Money helps massively but it doesn't equate to success. Likewise it's harder with limited finance but that doesn't prevent success. 

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

When was the last time either McCarthy or Pulis got a team from this league promoted? Genuine question  

I could be wrong but do either of them have more recent promotions from the championship then TM. I have a feeling they do but can't be arsed checking. 

Pulis work at Stoke and McCarthy at Ipswich are recent positives having teams punching above their weight.  you only have to look at how Ipswich have done without McCarthy to see what a positive effect he had there and what a good job he did. 

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brentford head coach Thomas Frank was 1st coach under Dean Smith before he left for Villa just for record. 

 

Must be others of that ilk out there. If we had a proper upper management structure we might uncover one. 

[RevidgeBlue]

59 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

When was the last really good job McCarthy same with Pulis did ok at boro but nothing special, we've had people touting the Cowleys in the past again not pulling up trees at HTFC. Our wage budget is competitive for mid table to lower mid table if we finish about that we are essentially punching above our weight. Thomas Franck was Dean Smiths assistant so was already at brentford, Ainsworth again if he wasnt local would people be touting him?. Its not to say Mowbray is perfect he is far from it but we aren't a million miles away with what on paper is a really solid but completely unspectacular squad.   I think he's earnt next season and see how we go from there think Covid will be a bit of a leveller in the transfer market, he's got to be brave let Graham, Smallwood, Samuel etc go

I can't agree we aren't a million miles away.

We've no keeper and probably five players of the sort of standard required if we were serious about challenging for promotion.

And two of those are entering the last twelve months of their contracts.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have 16th higher wage budget from the last accounts we can see. Yes 16th. 

When was the last time either McCarthy or Pulis got a team from this league promoted? Genuine question  

Brentford head coach Thomas Frank was 1st coach under Dean Smith before he left for Villa just for record. 

 

We'd have an even lower wage bill if Mowbray hadn't clogged it up with signings that he barely ever calls upon e.g. Davenport and Chapman. 

Pulis got Stoke up in about 2008 - then established them in the PL, reached the FA Cup final, got them into Europe, did an amazing job keeping Palace up from near certain relegation, turned West Brom around and kept them up and then got Middlesbrough into the play-offs. Not brilliant but a hell of a lot more impressive than Mowbray's last 12 years.

McCarthy worked wonders at Ipswich with absolutely no money to spend. Oh for what he could do with the millions we have squandered on project signings. He knows the importance of a mean defence that gives nothing away and doesn't get distracted with airy fairy principles of how the game should be played. All about the results and doing the necessary to get them. 

Took Ipswich to the top 6 in his first full season and also to 7th the season after on no money at all. Both better than anything we've done in the last 10 years.

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Very good manager

Well we had a chance to get him before we appointed Coyle and before joined his club he supported as a kid.

We missed out

We also had a chance to appoint Wilder before then e.g. when we brought Lambert in under false pretenses. At that point Wilder would have jumped at the chance to join us. Just needed some foresight and nous. 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Face up to it lad, we have, IMO, a manager taking us nowhere and I hate every minute of being on the road to nowhere.

Nail, hammer, head.

We're on the road to nowhere and if he was still here in ten years time we'd still be on the same road or have fallen off the road into the ditch at the side some years previously.

It's the futility and pointlessness of plodding on with Mowbray that depresses me.

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We also had a chance to appoint Wilder before then e.g. when we brought Lambert in under false pretenses. At that point Wilder would have jumped at the chance to join us. Just needed some foresight and nous. 

I'm more inclined to think that it was him that came here under false pretences, inserting the get out clause in his contract knowing full well he wouldn't be here beyond that unless things clicked instantly into place.

He's done nothing whatsoever since to suggest we missed out either.

[JHRover]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm more inclined to think that it was him that came here under false pretences, inserting the get out clause in his contract knowing full well he wouldn't be here beyond that unless things clicked instantly into place.

He's done nothing whatsoever since to suggest we missed out either.

I think he inserted the get out clause as he was doubtful from the start that Venkys would come up with the goods and so needed an insurance policy. 

By the time he'd sold Rhodes, had no money in January and it was becoming clear they weren't going to back him in the summer either he realised what he was up against and got out whilst his reputation was still relatively intact. And it worked for him because a few months later he got the Wolves job. 

I agree his stock has fallen massively and he's going to be finished if he doesn't get Ipswich back up quickly but I'll never believe he was to blame over Venkys. Not when we look at the rest of the shenanigans that have gone on here. Lambert had a decent reputation to protect and had the sense to ensure he could get out quickly if they didn't deliver. And like with pretty much everything else in their time here they didn't deliver. All talk, no action. Only difference is that all the other managers they've had have been grateful to be in the job and wouldn't have got any other Championship position, so they put up with being mucked around.

Edited July 2, 2020 by JHRover

[roversfan99]

55 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

When was the last really good job McCarthy same with Pulis did ok at boro but nothing special, we've had people touting the Cowleys in the past again not pulling up trees at HTFC. Our wage budget is competitive for mid table to lower mid table if we finish about that we are essentially punching above our weight. Thomas Franck was Dean Smiths assistant so was already at brentford, Ainsworth again if he wasnt local would people be touting him?. Its not to say Mowbray is perfect he is far from it but we aren't a million miles away with what on paper is a really solid but completely unspectacular squad.   I think he's earnt next season and see how we go from there think Covid will be a bit of a leveller in the transfer market, he's got to be brave let Graham, Smallwood, Samuel etc go

You mention being brave in the transfer market but ruthlessness has always been an achilles heel. Even recently hes dishing out temporary extensions for crap players like Samuel, Smallwood and Hart who are useless, useless and unused and useless and ineligible when we are amidst the economic tightenings of a pandemic. Last year he offered extensions to basically everyone and hes already given Bell an extension. We have to be especially efficient with our resources at this time and he isnt. Our squad is so imbalanced, 7 or 8 players are good enough and the rest arent.

I dont swallow this about us having lower half resources as if we are overachieving in the top half as that isnt a true reflection. Just looking at the wage budgets is flawed for numerous reasons:

- There are teams with far larger wage budgets because they have recently been relegated, so essentially a chunk of their wage budget is useless waste on Premier League wages, for example Stoke have Mame Diouf etc, Swansea have Routledge, Dyer etc. Its not as if its all an asset to the manager.

- Further proof of a limited correlation between league position is that there are teams with much less wage expenditure right up there and performing better than us. Brentford and Preston have much more efficient recruitment, Sheffield United got promoted spending less on wages and Millwall were much higher and this season are on the same points.

- Our wage budget I think will have gone up proportionally more than most with the additions of Johnson, Gallagher, Downing, Holtby, Adarabioyo, Cunningham and Walton. We will only know for sure when the next accounts are published.

- A big way in which Mowbray has been lucky is the net spend available to him of over 10m since we came up. Not many teams can boast that but it has not been spent well.

- No sales have been forced to halt our progress. Raya was the only sale and Mowbray was clearly happy to cut ties with a player he publically criticised and dropped for the inadequate sub keeper he signed. 

I am not Mowbray out consistently because I am aware that even if we could and had interested and logical owners, it wouldnt be an easy decision. Hes borderline either way. I just look at our squad and its consistent imbalances and I dont see Mowbray getting us into that top 6 before the promising core is broken up and we start all over. I feel its important to point out that in terms of resources he has plenty but it has not been used very efficiently.

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you ever stop digging at Mowbray Mercer? Its constant. Have a day off for abit. 

We are mid table Championship club with lower half wage bill and you are comparing us to a club who have the best coach in the world and can sign anyone they want. Very unrealistic Mercer!

Bit like you using them, Liverpool and Barca as an example of why we should use the False 9

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Nail, hammer, head.

We're on the road to nowhere and if he was still here in ten years time we'd still be on the same road or have fallen off the road into the ditch at the side some years previously.

It's the futility and pointlessness of plodding on with Mowbray that depresses me.

I agree. The lack of any pressure on the manager means that losing doesn’t matter. Obviously we will slide down, and eventually out of, the division but it doesn’t make any difference to anyone running the club. Any change seems totally reliant on Mowbray doing the decent thing - but why would he?

We all laughed when Kean talked about dew on the grass because he was so despised but if Mowbray made the same comment half of our fans would agree with him because his image as a “football statesman”.

Mowbray is the second longest serving Championship manager behind Lee Johnson. In my view it’s because of the “little old Blackburn Rovers” ideology that the current regime have installed. Doing nothing to increase footfall while having Venkys foot the bill for losses means this can be peddled as a reason why we are “lucky to be in the Championship thanks to Mowbray”. How many of our fans will soon only ever know us as a midtable second tier side who shouldn’t expect any better? Rovers have ALWAYS been striving for success, now we strive for mediocrity disguised as survival (while having wealthy owners). Worst of all, as soon as the cash does dry up, Waggott and Mowbray will be long gone with fans left to pick up the pieces.

I want us to get back to being one of those clubs where “managers live and die by results”. Which is pretty much every other club. Let’s hope our next owners actually give a shit about being successful because when they don’t then eventually nobody will.