Tony Mowbray Discussion

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I reckon he'll leave halfway through next season and he'll jack it in rather than get fired. We'll finish 10th-14th this season and he'll use Covid and the Travis/Dack unavailability to conveniently blame.

We'll then lose Dack and/or Armstrong in the summer and be battling relegation when he finally falls on his sword in Jan '21, with the profits made on Dack and Armstrong to service our monstrous debt the only thing to shout about as 'progress' in his 5 yr tenure  

Fuck you Venkys. 

I think there are two ways this could go. Your scenario above is one of them - e.g. Mowbray will leave when he feels like it and that will only happen when we are really struggling and he's nowhere to hide.

The alternative is the Bowyer scenario. This is that the owners have had enough of him and his failure to deliver promotion and get bored of it all again so refuse to meet him, fail to provide any more funds and expect sales to cover costs, and we end up with confusion and chaos.

I've got to say that I am disturbed and unimpressed by Mowbray admitting in his interview last week that he had been on to the owners during the international break and was telling them that we will be a promotion force next season. This to me stinks of self-protection and preservation, once again promising milk and honey months or years down the line and covering for failure this season.

This isn't what was sold to us. Mowbray didn't say in 2018 that it would be 2021-22 before we have a shot at promotion (and surely not even the most delusional people on here would actually have any confidence in that materialising).

Mowbray persuaded us all - owners and fans - that we were doing the slow build. Yet he's now had the allotted time - 5 transfer windows, healthy funds and no enforced sales. Why does he need or deserve more time? Or if he does surely this needs to be weighed against performance THIS season? Or are we already at the stage of writing this season off as yet another transition (seemingly as we are the only side affected by Covid and injuries). 

Next summer will see another major rebuild required and the chances are there won't be the funds or freedom we've had in recent years. Also likely that Armstrong at least will be sold. Then its just more transition as we adjust to a new style or system to fit the new players. It never ends. 

No. For me this is it with Mowbray. He's had more time and money than most managers could hope for. I'd rather he went soon to give us some chance of salvaging this season but if not then this season should be his last before someone else gets a go. 

You only have to listen to Waggott's latest interview to see that he is laying the foundations for more time for him and Tony. Thing is for all of Waggott's talk he isn't a 'Blackburn' fan. He's a very well paid executive who wants to maintain the status quo for as long as possible. Working with his mate on easy street whilst the absent owners pick up the tab and he approaches retirement.

5 years from now he'll have left Ewood never to be seen again looking forward to a cushy retirement whilst we are left with a diminished support base and another glorious shot at promotion missed.

[RevidgeBlue]

Spot on JH. Excellent post.

I only hope someone that matters in Pune is reading it and beginning to see through this "slow build" jam tomorrow nonsense.

[jim mk2]

We've made jokes about Mowbray and his pension fund but there must be a serious side and an element of truth to it ......he will have added a good seven figure sum to his already likely substantial pot while he's been at Ewood. I'm sure his pension adviser will have worked out  that if he can eke out another 18 months he will be able to enjoy a very lucrative and comfortable retirement indeed.   

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

He’ll go when he’s had enough on his own terms. Remember that and it will save you all a lot of pointless angst.

I'm under no delusion whatsoever that this will actually happen with Swag in charge, unless the owners decide to take a closer look at what's going on and cease to be taken in by the 'we're bang on course" routine.

However whilst I don't think it will happen, the day you don't think a manager who isn't up to scratch SHOULD leave is the day you should give it up as a bad job!

I'm really fed up now, normally I can't stand international breaks but I took a complete two week break from Rovers news, didn't miss worrying about Moggasaurus in the slightest, and returned to it full of idle curiosity wondering if a two week break would have healed some limbs and recharged our batteries.

Sadly not it seems. In that two week period I'd almost forgotten how bad in general we are under Mowbray.

[philipl]

Great posts from JH and revidge.

Yes the ref robbed us blind at Luton but we were never set up right for collecting 3 points and in this game Mowbray had the luxury of up to 5 subs to shake it up.

He had no plan B when we have been in that sort of situation against robust dangerous but frankly limited opposition and totally failed to change approach or energy level.

That observation is probably true of 30% of our games in the Championship under Mowbray.

[tomphil]

He's a good solid manager nothing more nothing less but there are vital ingredients still missing. In truth promotion (and relegation) aside he's not really done anything the inexperienced Gary Bowyer didn't do.  Apart from fill up the infracstructure with his mates,spend millions on single players and increas running costs again of course.

Squad is similar strength wise arguably apart from a Rhodes, style is still bland and over cautious most of the time still. We  have the tools to be challenging towards the top 6 but still look a million miles away. So not much has changed from 5 years ago really but of course we have to consider the intervening years.

TM has had to build it back to that after taking over a mess although we probably arrived at that point over a year ago. Which brings me to what is really the remit here and why does he never seen under any urgency to push it on at all ?

He could well have a job for life here.

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by tomphil

[47er]

21 hours ago, tomphil said:

Are we really just flat track bullies

Wins this season:

Wycombe, Coventry, Derby and QPR--- suggests that's exactly what we are!

[ben_the_beast]

Thing is I don't believe Mowbray is over cautious. He's in-balanced. I wouldn't have a problem with an over cautious approach if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Mowbray has full backs absolutely bombing forwards, even when they aren't offering a huge amount in terms of goals scored. Then unless he has the trio of Holtby, Johnson and Rothwell all on song in the middle the midfield gets stuck with too many players who pass sideways, but still don't offer that overall discipline that will protect the defence. So it's neither here nor there really. An attacking philosophy not adapted when we don't have the right players available. The only tactical tweaks i've seen Mowbray make at all this season is JRC in for Nyambe as he can cross a ball better. Apart from this is just been players with different skill sets slotting into the same roles. 

When we've got everyone available it has kinda clicked. The rest of the time we've been passing the ball around a lot. Looking a bit cautious in midfield. A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, ben_the_beast said:

 if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Warnock has achieved a solid defence almost immediately,  mowbray hasnt in 4 years.  

He's either taking the piss or doesn't know how...either way he should just go.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm under no delusion whatsoever that this will actually happen with Swag in charge, unless the owners decide to take a closer look at what's going on and cease to be taken in by the 'we're bang on course" routine.

However whilst I don't think it will happen, the day you don't think a manager who isn't up to scratch SHOULD leave is the day you should give it up as a bad job!

I'm really fed up now, normally I can't stand international breaks but I took a complete two week break from Rovers news, didn't miss worrying about Moggasaurus in the slightest, and returned to it full of idle curiosity wondering if a two week break would have healed some limbs and recharged our batteries.

Sadly not it seems. In that two week period I'd almost forgotten how bad in general we are under Mowbray.

I look forward to international breaks now. At least Rovers can't ruin your weekend when they're not playing  !

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, ben_the_beast said:

Thing is I don't believe Mowbray is over cautious. He's in-balanced. I wouldn't have a problem with an over cautious approach if we were keeping clean sheets and grinding out wins. Someone else pointed out Boro under Warnock.

Mowbray has full backs absolutely bombing forwards, even when they aren't offering a huge amount in terms of goals scored. Then unless he has the trio of Holtby, Johnson and Rothwell all on song in the middle the midfield gets stuck with too many players who pass sideways, but still don't offer that overall discipline that will protect the defence. So it's neither here nor there really. An attacking philosophy not adapted when we don't have the right players available. The only tactical tweaks i've seen Mowbray make at all this season is JRC in for Nyambe as he can cross a ball better. Apart from this is just been players with different skill sets slotting into the same roles. 

When we've got everyone available it has kinda clicked. The rest of the time we've been passing the ball around a lot. Looking a bit cautious in midfield. A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

It's not the vibrant front foot pressing style he began talking up in summer though we are straight back to sit back and possession based stuff.

Obviously availability might affect that and it is a difficult tactic to employ every game twice a week but some teams manage it, Only really Travis missing affects it in midfield because in the others he's collected don't have that intensity. He's always expected his full backs to do the work and try and provide the quality yet never really recruited for that purpose.

So in essence to me he is over cautious 80% of the time because add into that he alters for the opposition as well. He's gone to Luton and decided not to go after them.

[LDRover]

2 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

A long diagonal into our fullbacks and the entire defensive set up is bypassed. 

This is a great point.

There is very little concern shown on here for our full back area yet every single team we play looks to exploit this area and the majority get joy there.

A personnel or tactical issue?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, LDRover said:

There is very little concern shown on here for our full back area

Not a lot we can do mate, but I've mentioned a few times we are exposed down our flanks. That's the 'beauty' of 4-3-3, very little cover for our FB's (who bomb on anyway). The thinking presumably is that out attacking threat will compensate for our openness at the back. However, apart from the few teams we've hammered we are toothless up front.

6 goals in 8 games against everyone that isn't Cov, Wyc, QPR and Derby. Pretty shite really. 

 

[LDRover]

20 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Not a lot we can do mate, but I've mentioned a few times we are exposed down our flanks. That's the 'beauty' of 4-3-3, very little cover for our FB's (who bomb on anyway). The thinking presumably is that out attacking threat will compensate for our openness at the back. However, apart from the few teams we've hammered we are toothless up front.

6 goals in 8 games against everyone that isn't Cov, Wyc, QPR and Derby. Pretty shite really. 

 

Agreed.

The thing is, it's not a recent issue either, it seems the opposition target the area regardless of set up.

I used to work with a woman married to a Sheff Weds scout this will have been about 5 years ago now. He had been watching us a couple of times prior to us playing them so I asked what he had noted, 'get the ball behind the full backs early' was the response.

[den]

Just now, LDRover said:

Agreed.

The thing is, it's not a recent issue either, it seems the opposition target the area regardless of set up.

I used to work with a woman married to a Sheff Weds scout this will have been about 5 years ago now. He had been watching us a couple of times prior to us playing them so I asked what he had noted, 'get the ball behind the full backs early' was the response.

Yes, it’s an obvious flaw in that system. I also reckon that the only way you can fit Rothwell in our team is to play 5 in midfield.

[Blue blood]

The question I ask myself is do we look any more likely now 3 years on to get promoted then when we first came up. And whilst on paper yes, on the pitch it's a clear no. And if for no other reason than that he needs to go. 

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, Blue blood said:

The question I ask myself is do we look any more likely now 3 years on to get promoted then when we first came up. And whilst on paper yes, on the pitch it's a clear no. And if for no other reason than that he needs to go. 

No! 

Mowbray has to go. Did you not see that performance on Saturday and the previous 20 performances? 

If we hadn't won QPR all the happy clappers would surely be questioning Mowbray? 

[Boz]

"When we've got everyone available..."

Wow just watch us go!

Although perhaps in reality those game changers might end up on the bench with two holding midfielders players instead at home, two centre forwards out on the wing and a little striker through the middle. Quite possibly I might now be that dinosaur, that I thought my dad was, when he went on about inside and outside forwards, two wingers whose job was to get to bye-line and knock it back, with three at the back. I recall Harry Chapman standing one up for SG to nod in, seemed a fairly reasonable way to break down your opponents and score. 

Though also I genuinely do not believe he knows his best starting line up, get's too engrossed in systems and opponents. In my opinion we get better results and performances when he gets forced into a corner and has no alternatives. 

Sigh. 

[Blue blood]

23 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

No! 

Mowbray has to go. Did you not see that performance on Saturday and the previous 20 performances? 

If we hadn't won QPR all the happy clappers would surely be questioning Mowbray? 

Sounds like you are disagreeing with what I wrote but I actually was saying he should get the boot... 

[RoversClitheroe]

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Sounds like you are disagreeing with what I wrote but I actually was saying he should get the boot... 

Nope I'm in agreement! Adding to what you've put lol.

[broadsword]

On 22/11/2020 at 21:19, tomphil said:

Top 6 before his 60th ?

No need to get carried away

[philipl]

I will give Mowbray this.

He has come up finally with the 4-3-3 which he has drilled into the squad so that subs don't disrupt the flow and increasingly fit into the system.

4-3-3 really suits rotating Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong and Elliott and Travis will take to it like a duck to water.

The big question is where Dack fits.. but what a nice problem to have when we eventually have it.

This is essential with a huge squad with multiple players coming through the Academy complementing the 25 named players.

Having such a monster squad is essential this season and Norwich are less well set up for handling absences than we are currently.

He got away with 3 against 5 in midfield against Barnsley because man for man we had the better players all over the park.

The expanded bench and ability to use 5 subs helped Rovers a lot today. It meant we had specialists for all positions and arguably we didn't get disrupted by either injury.

I expect to see two pairs of subs to be used regularly throughout the season by Mowbray now with the changed rule except when we have injuries.

So kudos to Mowbray for the system and foresight.

Edited November 29, 2020 by philipl

[tomphil]

If we are winning and doing well i wouldn't be changing things just to fir Dack back in.  We are bigger than 1 player although its not looked that way at times.

It might be a dilemma but the team comes first and no doubt at some point in the future we might be relying on him again. That would signal we haven't moved forwards though.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, philipl said:

I will give Mowbray this.

He has come up finally with the 4-3-3 which he has drilled into the squad so that subs don't disrupt the flow and increasingly fit into the system.

4-3-3 really suits rotating Brereton, Gallagher, Armstrong and Elliott and Travis will take to it like a duck to water.

The big question is where Dack fits.. but what a nice problem to have when we eventually have it.

This is essential with a huge squad with multiple players coming through the Academy complementing the 25 named players.

Having such a monster squad is essential this season and Norwich are less well set up for handling absences than we are currently.

He got away with 3 against 5 in midfield against Barnsley because man for man we had the better players all over the park.

The expanded bench and ability to use 5 subs helped Rovers a lot today. It meant we had specialists for all positions and arguably we didn't get disrupted by either injury.

I expect to see two pairs of subs to be used regularly throughout the season by Mowbray now with the changed rule except when we have injuries.

So kudos to Mowbray for the system and foresight.

Football is becoming like Rugby League were the strength of your bench can dictate the outcome of the game.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Where Dack fits in 4-3-3 is either in Holtbys role, where he will be second choice or in Armstrong where he will be 2nd or 3rd choice even to start with. Maybe he can compete with Rothwell either. He's good baller so he could maintain some level of ball retention in midfield, but where he would excel would be arriving in the box on the end of stuff. A great player to have coming back in. Will give the opposition a huge problem.