Tony Mowbray Discussion

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Waggy76 said:

The danger is , he maybe offered a new contract ...

Absolutely nothing would surprise me with the idiots we have in charge. Whilst I agree with what he is saying the reality of Kamy's post scares me. It's about the owners liking him and he has done a great job ingratiating himself on them as has Swag. They publicly praise them as often as they can which is music to their ego-driven personalities. Whether by luck or design Mowbray has engineered a situation where he is bullet proof but nice, honest Mowbray surely has to realise we are as far as he can take us, do the honourable thing and tender his resignation.

And then I woke up...............

[G Somerset Rover]

The only way he’ll get potted is if someone gets in the V’s or Pasha’s ear IMO. And then it’d no doubt be with the wrong intentions.

Only hope is that he walks at the end of the season but he’ll probably see his contract out as a minimum.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

.....

Edited January 10, 2021 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Stuart]

14 hours ago, unleaded said:

Surprised they have still  not sacked him ... 

Whu Loan out our Academys 21 - 23 stars who are high flying and replacing them with 18 year old kids .... How desperate can he get ...

The Subs he makes during games smack of I have no idea what am doing ....He comes across as a know it’ all type ... I will look back on his time at Rovers with a bad taste ... Wasted Millions .. like Pullis said he’s been lucky he’s been backed at a normal run club he would have been potted long time ago .....just don’t understand

Alas Venkys they go from one extreme to another .... 

Strikes me that they see a couple of hundred grand for an U23 player sale as important income and a outgoing loanee as a wage saved.

Sad times in the “think small-time” era of our club.

I seem to recall Mowbray saying that he had to tell Venkys to keep their money in their pocket while Project Slow Build was the best way forward.

Just my opinion but the club seems to be two entities. The club itself run like a League Two outfit (by Waggott) scrimping and saving and getting by (trading youngsters and cutting costs for things like the stadium and pitch), with a separate department for first team matters (headed up by Mowbray). Both separately reporting into the owners, with different budgets and targets.

It would explain quite a bit about the behaviours. The trouble is you can’t have it both ways. If money is being wasted on first team failure it is doubly damning for ticket sales. The club seemingly don’t need the money (first team spend/waste) and the quality doesn’t excite fans enough to sell tickets. Meanwhile the prices continue to rise to cover running costs.

The first team is everything and cannot be divorced from the rest of the club. They need to get fans onside and you do that by demonstrating that success for the first team is the single aim for the club. That requires holding the manager to account. The manager’s failure to bring that success or at least excitement/enjoyment to the first team directly impacts the chairman’s balance sheet. The former must be responsible to the latter and changes able to be made when necessary, with a single target from which everything else follows.

I get that this is a fictional, straw-man, fan-theory argument but it’s just my opinion.

[JHRover]

22 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Strikes me that they see a couple of hundred grand for an U23 player sale as important income and a outgoing loanee as a wage saved.

Sad times in the “think small-time” era of our club.

I seem to recall Mowbray saying that he had to tell Venkys to keep their money in their pocket while Project Slow Build was the best way forward.

Just my opinion but the club seems to be two entities. The club itself run like a League Two outfit (by Waggott) scrimping and saving and getting by (trading youngsters and cutting costs for things like the stadium and pitch), with a separate department for first team matters (headed up by Mowbray). Both separately reporting into the owners, with different budgets and targets.

It would explain quite a bit about the behaviours. The trouble is you can’t have it both ways. If money is being wasted on first team failure it is doubly damning for ticket sales. The club seemingly don’t need the money (first team spend/waste) and the quality doesn’t excite fans enough to sell tickets. Meanwhile the prices continue to rise to cover running costs.

The first team is everything and cannot be divorced from the rest of the club. They need to get fans onside and you do that by demonstrating that success for the first team is the single aim for the club. That requires holding the manager to account. The manager’s failure to bring that success or at least excitement/enjoyment to the first team directly impacts the chairman’s balance sheet. The former must be responsible to the latter and changes able to be made when necessary, with a single target from which everything else follows.

I get that this is a fictional, straw-man, fan-theory argument but it’s just my opinion.

Completely agree that the club is run as two separate entities. I think Waggott was given or got the job on the basis he could boost income, get more blood out of the stone and reduce what they needed to put in. They've also never taken much, if any, interest in the health of the club itself hence why we get Ewood in the state it is, the pitch looking like non-league standard, and embarrassing efforts by Waggott to scrape together a few quid.

Then they're happy to hire private jets to take the first team to Cardiff, give pointless new contracts to Sam Hart and Dominic Samuel and keep Ben Gladwin here because he's a nice lad. 

Makes no sense but then very little does.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

To be honest with you Hoochie after king rat, Coyle, Singh, Agnew, Shaw et al, I'm glad we have a decent guy at the club trying his best for Blackburn Rovers.

Will he take us up, probably not, but he won't take us down either, we've reached our level under Venky ownership, its doesn't get any better than this in my opinion, regardless who the manager is.

 

So in that case give me one good reason why we should carry on with this charade. If we've given up we may as well go the whole hog and get some houses on the place.

74 -0 on the poll. Chaddy mustn't have voted yet.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

Absolutely nothing would surprise me with the idiots we have in charge. Whilst I agree with what he is saying the reality of Kamy's post scares me. It's about the owners liking him and he has done a great job ingratiating himself on them as has Swag. They publicly praise them as often as they can which is music to their ego-driven personalities. Whether by luck or design Mowbray has engineered a situation where he is bullet proof but nice, honest Mowbray surely has to realise we are as far as he can take us, do the honourable thing and tender his resignation.

And then I woke up...............

Where's kamy's post? 

[Gav]

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

So in that case give me one good reason why we should carry on with this charade. If we've given up we may as well go the whole hog and get some houses on the place.

1) As fans of Blackburn Rovers we support our club through thick and thin, good times and bad.

[JHRover]

One way to look at the Mowbray situation is to ask ourselves if he has really done enough in his near 4 years at the club to earn relentlessly enduring patience and support. I’d argue that the initial few months of his tenure were exempt due to the horrendous situation he inherited and then clearly he did a good job in leading us back from League One at the first attempt but since then it has been over 2.5 years and barring a few short decent runs it has been mid-table or bottom half throughout. Some might say that is good because he’s kept us clear of any serious relegation trouble and established us again which is all correct, but my view is that with the resources and squad he has had at his disposal that isn’t much of an achievement. It certainly doesn't earn him endless time to keep repeating the same old mistakes.

It should be noted that there are only 10 managers in the Football League who have been in post longer than Mowbray has been here. I’d argue that every one of those managers has had either far greater success in their time or far more testing conditions to work in, or both, earning them the time they have had. These are:

1. SIMON WEAVER – HARROGATE – Led them up the non leagues and into the Football League for the first time ever

2. GARETH AINSWORTH – WYCOMBE – led them up from League Two to the Championship against all the odds into a division they shouldn’t really be in

3. SEAN DYCHE – B*RNLEY – twice led them to automatic promotion to the Premier League and has now kept them there against the odds for several years

4. JOHN COLEMAN – ACCRINGTON – led them to an unprecedented promotion into League One and has kept them there despite being the smallest club and budget in the League and is now closing in on the play offs – we might be playing them soon

5. JURGEN KLOPP – LIVERPOOL – League Champions and Champions League winners – enough said

6. MARK COOPER – FOREST GREEN – Led them into the League for the first time and consistently pushing for promotion to League One

7. CHRIS WILDER – SHEFF UTD – Led them from League One to Premier League and kept them there, boyhood fan

8. PEP GUARDIOLA – MAN CITY – 2x League title and multiple other trophies – enough said

9. PAUL WARNE – ROTHERHAM – 2x promotion from League One & no money to spend in the Championship

10. DAVID ARTELL – CREWE – Promotion from League Two and now at highest level in many years with no money to spend

Others around for just less time than Mowbray are Mark Robins at Coventry – promotions from League Two to Championship with zero money and no stadium, Neil at Preston who has threatened a couple of times to hit the top 6 (including being in the top two for a chunk of last season), yet is also now getting grief from fans, Nuno Santo at Wolves who has led them from Championship to Europa League in 3 years and Farke at Norwich on course for his 2^nd promotion to the Premier League in 3 seasons at this level.

We can therefore see that all these managers around who have been in place for longer or as long as Mowbray have vast reserves of credit in the bank, are working at lower league outfits with no money or have won trophies/promotions multiple times at their existing clubs.

Mowbray’s achievement of taking us back out of League One, whilst respectable and successful, is in my view much lesser than the achievements I’ve listed above from similar long term serving managers. Other managers to do what Mowbray has include Cook with Wigan, Parkinson with Bolton, Jackett with Wolves, Caldwell with Wigan. Promotions not to be sniffed at but none of those lot were entitled to 4 or 5 years free reign or cult-like status after that to tread water. Most were binned off relatively soon afterwards. 

This isn’t a Mowbray bashing exercise just think it is worth pointing out that his accomplishments in taking us to a regular mid table fixture don’t really match up to other long serving managers who have truly earned enduring patience and loyalty at their clubs. He's something of an anomaly. He isn't a club legend despite what Waggott and others want to believe and I don't think he has achieved anything in terms of results above and beyond what would be expected for someone in place this long. He's something of an anomaly among the longer serving managers.

The problem of course is the lunatics that run the club seem to enjoy the tribute the manager pays them by going off and telling them how brilliant they are and this appears to be a prerequisite to getting any money out of them. Barking mad but likely to hinder things considerably.

[perthblue02]

12 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Where's kamy's post? 

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/forums/topic/34746-tony-mowbray-stick-or-twist/&do=findComment&comment=2158189

[LDRover]

16 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

So in that case give me one good reason why we should carry on with this charade. If we've given up we may as well go the whole hog and get some houses on the place.

74 -0 on the poll. Chaddy mustn't have voted yet.

The postal votes from dead rovers fans haven't been dumped yet

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Where's kamy's post? 

Page 2 of the Mowbray Stick or Twist thread.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

Absolutely nothing would surprise me with the idiots we have in charge. Whilst I agree with what he is saying the reality of Kamy's post scares me. It's about the owners liking him and he has done a great job ingratiating himself on them as has Swag. They publicly praise them as often as they can which is music to their ego-driven personalities. Whether by luck or design Mowbray has engineered a situation where he is bullet proof but nice, honest Mowbray surely has to realise we are as far as he can take us, do the honourable thing and tender his resignation.

And then I woke up...............

Agree with your post. The thing is that how can we all believe he is the good guy when he has managed to get to this position which he now won’t walk away from.

It’s a contradiction.

If I were Mowbray and bulletproof at a club that I didn’t support I’d probably do the same thing but I wouldn’t expect people to think I was somehow honourable.

The longer he is here the more harm is done as our club sinks deeper into a malaise. When you combine that with Gav’s post, and Waggott’s lack of ability to grow our fanbase rather than squeeze the sponge until it has only air left, it is only a matter of time before our club folds due to a lack of interest.

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Agree with your post. The thing is that how can we all believe he is the good guy when he has managed to get to this position which he now won’t walk away from.

It’s a contradiction.

If I were Mowbray and bulletproof at a club that I didn’t support I’d probably do the same thing but I wouldn’t expect people to think I was somehow honourable.

The longer he is here the more harm is done as our club sinks deeper into a malaise. When you combine that with Gav’s post, and Waggott’s lack of ability to grow our fanbase rather than squeeze the sponge until it has only air left, it is only a matter of time before our club folds due to a lack of interest.

He has a cult-like band of disciples who believe his every word, so when he tells them what an great honourable guy he is they automatically believe that he is this great honourable guy who is beyond reproach.

 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Agree with your post. The thing is that how can we all believe he is the good guy when he has managed to get to this position which he now won’t walk away from.

It’s a contradiction.

If I were Mowbray and bulletproof at a club that I didn’t support I’d probably do the same thing but I wouldn’t expect people to think I was somehow honourable.

The longer he is here the more harm is done as our club sinks deeper into a malaise. When you combine that with Gav’s post, and Waggott’s lack of ability to grow our fanbase rather than squeeze the sponge until it has only air left, it is only a matter of time before our club folds due to a lack of interest.

I remember an article by Mick Dennis some time ago entitled "What's the point of Tottenham Hotspur" which essentially questioned the lack of ambition and perennial mid table finishes interspersed with lots of excuses. I really feel we are in that position with owners, staff and many supporters who are happy with the mediocrity and use the 'better than Coyle or Kean' line as some kind of yardstick. I really feel the club is crumbling from the inside and this is going to end really badly. 

I know this could apply to lots of clubs but I couldn't care less about them. I just want the best for Rovers.

[LDRover]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I remember an article by Mick Dennis some time ago entitled "What's the point of Tottenham Hotspur" which essentially questioned the lack of ambition and perennial mid table finishes interspersed with lots of excuses. I really feel we are in that position with owners, staff and many supporters who are happy with the mediocrity and use the 'better than Coyle or Kean' line as some kind of yardstick. I really feel the club is crumbling from the inside and this is going to end really badly. 

I know this could apply to lots of clubs but I couldn't care less about them. I just want the best for Rovers.

The Facebook lot are just happy we aren't Bury, Bolton or Wigan because of our 'fantastic' owners.

It's completely lost on them that this mid table inertia and spiralling debt year on year means that, in time, we will be. Maybe then they'll look back fondly on the 'stagnation years' while walking round the new Aldi sited on what once was Ewood Park.

Edited January 10, 2021 by LDRover

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

33 minutes ago, Gav said:

1) As fans of Blackburn Rovers we support our club through thick and thin, good times and bad.

We shouldn't as both fans and long term custodians of this Club except the unacceptable.

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

.....

The Club should provide a fold up bed for use in the dugout.

He'll get a ricked neck sleeping in a chair.

They haven't given the poor man a rug or blanket either. Poor do. 

[matt83]

I find I’m going through familiar stages now under Mowbray. Started with frustration, then annoyance, then apathy and finally total disinterest. Now making my way from annoyance to apathy. Either way a million miles off enjoyment or even pride in club. 

[AllRoverAsia]

3 minutes ago, matt83 said:

I find I’m going through familiar stages now under Mowbray. Started with frustration, then annoyance, then apathy and finally total disinterest. Now making my way from annoyance to apathy. Either way a million miles off enjoyment or even pride in club. 

Post match I went to bed apathetic.

A good sleep help me recover to apoplectic.

 

 

[Dolly blue]

Just watched Crawley beat Leeds....and they have exactly what we haven’t.....their players clearly believed in the manager, the system , the plan....and they said so . They played the ball forward, they supported each other and they played for the shirt....

Their whole is far greater than their parts ...their total cost was just over 2 million...and we trundle along with what we have ...and who we have .

Disgusting , Tony 

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Gav said:

To be honest with you Hoochie after king rat, Coyle, Singh, Agnew, Shaw et al, I'm glad we have a decent guy at the club trying his best for Blackburn Rovers.

Will he take us up, probably not, but he won't take us down either, we've reached our level under Venky ownership, its doesn't get any better than this in my opinion, regardless who the manager is.

 

 

1 hour ago, Gav said:

1) As fans of Blackburn Rovers we support our club through thick and thin, good times and bad.

There's something about being a football fan which makes you hopeful in the face all of all logic. I remember when we came down and we went top, I thought maybe we would come straight back up, I despised Kean and knew how terrible he was but its that blind hope. When Coyle was appointed, I knew how incompetent he was beforehand but I still was happy when Graham signed etc, trying to figure out the team he would pick rather than resigning myself to the relegation I knew was very possible. When we played United that season in his last game, there was that burning hope that we would pull off a shock. I think once that hope goes, I would struggle to find any sort of enthusiasm to watch games and to give a toss. I have never lost that even in the worst times, even when Kean was manager, even when Coyle was, even when we went into an embargo, had Shebby Singh shaming us, when I was going on protests to rid us of Venkys who I despise to this day. But if you accept stagnation knowingly purely out of fear, if that hope (however illogical) leaves, then what is the point?

There is reason to fear if Mowbray goes that they appoint someone awful, but there is still a chance, even if it is a fluke or via an agency, that they get someone and he gets us promoted. Its not beyond the realms of possibility. If I write off any chance of that ever happening under owners that seem unwilling to ever leave, then surely I may as well pack it in?

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

He has a cult-like band of disciples 

☺

Edited January 10, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I remember an article by Mick Dennis some time ago entitled "What's the point of Tottenham Hotspur" which essentially questioned the lack of ambition and perennial mid table finishes interspersed with lots of excuses. I really feel we are in that position with owners, staff and many supporters who are happy with the mediocrity and use the 'better than Coyle or Kean' line as some kind of yardstick. I really feel the club is crumbling from the inside and this is going to end really badly. 

I know this could apply to lots of clubs but I couldn't care less about them. I just want the best for Rovers.

That’s another great point. “He’s no Kean or Coyle” sums up the problem. And it isn’t necessarily their fault - even if they were taken on young, “Venkys Rovers” is the only Rovers they’ve ever really known.

Prior to these buffoons, just in my time, the club has had Allardyce, Hughes, Souness, Hodgson, Dalglish, McKay - this is the benchmark, not Kean and Coyle. Sadly those in charge are helping to keep our aspirations and ambitions low and our reality a miserable one - and we should be grateful for that. Even grateful to Venkys. Maybe if they were paying me £300k per year I might!

In my life time Rovers have always, always, punched above our weight. Under this lot, our weight is dropping like an Atkins fanatic and we’ve barely got a punch between us - and furthermore we’d better shut up, pay up and like it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

There's something about being a football fan which makes you hopeful in the face all of all logic. I remember when we came down and we went top, I thought maybe we would come straight back up, I despised Kean and knew how terrible he was but its that blind hope. When Coyle was appointed, I knew how incompetent he was beforehand but I still was happy when Graham signed etc, trying to figure out the team he would pick rather than resigning myself to the relegation I knew was very possible. When we played United that season in his last game, there was that burning hope that we would pull off a shock. I think once that hope goes, I would struggle to find any sort of enthusiasm to watch games and to give a toss. I have never lost that even in the worst times, even when Kean was manager, even when Coyle was, even when we went into an embargo, had Shebby Singh shaming us, when I was going on protests to rid us of Venkys who I despise to this day. But if you accept stagnation knowingly purely out of fear, if that hope (however illogical) leaves, then what is the point?

There is reason to fear if Mowbray goes that they appoint someone awful, but there is still a chance, even if it is a fluke or via an agency, that they get someone and he gets us promoted. Its not beyond the realms of possibility. If I write off any chance of that ever happening under owners that seem unwilling to ever leave, then surely I may as well pack it in?

My feelings exactly.